Cool DirtWheels article 89 250R vs 09 450R Honda

[rdlsz24]

In the March issue of DW. I would love to have either of these quads. Their conclusion is kinda lame since they don't take a side, but still a cool shootout.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tkzgz1mdfdo/250Rvs450R.pdf

Rob

[factoryX]

it is kind of lame for them not to choose a bike. Its funny though how a 20 year old bike is hanging with something fresh off the line in 2009. What there not saying is that the 450r has a 80% increased stroke along with a high compression motor, and yet a mere 89 trx250r with 36hp is still able to keep up..rofl.

[Mosh]

My buddy just called and told me about this. He is a avid 2 stroke guy.
The fact is, DW will probabaly never publically admit that the 250R was light years ahead of it's time and that the 450's are barely a comparision once you factor in all aspects between the 2 ATV's.
They are more of a advertising mag, and the manufatures would frown on them pimping a 20 year old 250R over a new modern machine that they are trying to sell in these times.
I dont blame them for that, but.....

2 strokes rule!

[Billy Golightly]

I can't believe they even admitted as much as they did about the 250R being better than the 450. Honda must not be spending too much advertising dollars lately :lol:

[smokinwrench]

That was a good read. Put equal shocks on both and a low end pipe on the 250r and do a retest.

[factoryX]

http://i49.tinypic.com/149vmb.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/28bs5zm.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2vb3kap.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2ewoa2s.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/15czk7t.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/mt1bol.jpg

_____________________________________________

[MudBug]

thanks FactoryX, I couldnt open it

[InPiEcEs]

They did point out the one thing 4-strokes have going in their favor, and that is the ability to pull a gear much longer.
I ran with a lot of 450R's and YFZ's on the ice last year. They weren't any faster on the straights. They were a bit better into the corners, and coming out being able to just pull a gear. On a 250R, it takes a shift or two. Made a bit of a gain for the 4-strokes, and as long as the rider didn't mess up, it was a slow but steady gain through the laps. Otherwise, I felt they were no better on the ice oval. Once I get my 330 setup, I don't think they are gonna like me:naughty:

[300rman]

i think you could eliminate shift lag with a switch attached to the gear shifter so when you hit the shifter, it retards or kills the spark altogether, for just that split second and kills motor power just long enough to shift, them it comes back on full force. shifts would be so quick, you'd never have to let off the gas or touch the clutch

[jason85atc250r]

Cool article but did you notice how they said 250r's had single piston caliper on the front when they were dual piston.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

way cool article!! The old 250r set the bar pretty high, im not surprised they arent able to say that the 450 is light years ahead of the old pinger... LONG LIVE THE 250r!! :w00t:

[rdlsz24]

I see they also posted this on their site about 8 months after I first posted it from the mag

http://www.dirtwheelsmag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=972FB5F817904B2FBDDE41DD0687A1A7

Rob

[deathman53]

that article was quite inaccurate when you start to look closer. they say its a 89, but its really a 86 frame, 88/89 swinger and motor, 86/87 spindles, 88/89 a-arms, as noted single piston calipers and general mismatch of all year parts. Article was far from accurate in machine specs, but it got the general point across, HONDA GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND MAKE SOMETHING THAT WILL BEAT WHAT YOU MADE 22 YEARS AGO. The article that really was a sham was the one that one of them did comparing a 09 ltr450 to trx330r, the ltr won in everything, they did something to the 250r to make it handle and ride so bad, its almost like they ran the 250r with way too big of jets or with it fully choked the whole time.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

that article was quite inaccurate when you start to look closer. they say its a 89, but its really a 86 frame, 88/89 swinger and motor, 86/87 spindles, 88/89 a-arms, as noted single piston calipers and general mismatch of all year parts. Article was far from accurate in machine specs, but it got the general point across, HONDA GET OFF YOUR BUTT AND MAKE SOMETHING THAT WILL BEAT WHAT YOU MADE 22 YEARS AGO. The article that really was a sham was the one that one of them did comparing a 09 ltr450 to trx330r, the ltr won in everything, they did something to the 250r to make it handle and ride so bad, its almost like they ran the 250r with way too big of jets or with it fully choked the whole time.

Most definitely... It would take quite a bit to get any of the 450 thumpers to run with a decently set up 330r. And yes, I used the term "decently" intentionally!

[4x4van]

The reality is that a 2-stroke will always eat a 4-stroke of equal displacement alive. Not long ago, Supercross was 250cc (2-strokes) in the "big show" and 125cc (2-stroke) for the "lites". Then, one rider tried a 4-stroke in the 250 class. But they had to change the rules to allow that 4-stroke to have much more displacement in order for it to be competitive, since a 250 4-stroke would have never been able to keep up with the 250 2-strokes. I can't remember off the top of my head who it was, but it was a top factory rider (yamaha, I believe), and it was at a Supercross race here in SoCal...I was there, and it was really strange to hear the normal buzz of all the 2-strokes, and then the low growl of a single 4-stroke on the track! But by the end of the next season, 2-strokes were pretty much phased out of supercross.

Now supercross runs exclusively 450 (4-stroke) in the "big show", and 250cc (4-stroke) in the lites. Basically, to get the power of a 2-stroke out of a 4-stroke, you must double the displacement (which makes sense since the plug fires every time the piston reaches the top on a 2-stroke, as opposed to every other time on a 4-stroke). Combine the fact that in an equal frame, a 2-stroke is typically lighter than a 4-stroke, and the fact that there really hasn't been much major advancements in quad suspension since the late 80's, and the result is that a healthy 250 2-stroke will usually meet or beat a similarly healthy 450 4-stroke.

[Blown 331]

I didn't read the whole thing but another thing you have to consider is the 450 is really choked to meet much stricter noise and emission requirements than 20 years ago. A stock 450 has an intake track the size of a quarter and a 118 main jet if I remember correctly. Just pulling the air box lid will require a 185 main jet, its a totally different bike after that.
I bought a 450R new and currently have an ATC250R. My conclusion is in a drag, with pipes and jetting on both bikes (also a cam on the 450, reeds in the 250 with more compression and 36mm flat slide) is in a straight up drag the 450 will win but on the 250 from 2nd through 5th it will pull slightly on the 450 but the 450 will jump it out of the whole and take it top end.
But one thing 4-strokes are generally known for are reliability and longevity. The 450 Hondas have neither. In my opinion a 2 stroke will greatly out last a 450 Honda. The power on the 450 is amazing but they are ticking time bombs. My brother had changed like 10 crankshafts in 450 Hondas.

[threewheelin-feelin]

i have personally seen my 250r beat many 450 yamahas honda and suzukis..i have also seen it get beat by many...my conclusion is that with these bikes its almost 95% rider that desides...that being said why dont we every see anything about the tecate or tri-z's standing up to the new 450s or maybe even a 500r i want to see thos shootouts

[deathman53]

it is quite a far fetch on bringing a 250r to a magazine cover now, sadly there will probably never be another article or even photos of three wheelers on any major magazine. Besides, could you imagine how bad it would get bashed on? and who they decide for the riders probably won't be able to ride it very good either. I would love to a see a shoot-out like the following: modified, trx450r vs yfz450 vs ltr450 vs ktm 450sx vs aftermarket trx250r vs atc250r vs tri-z vs tecate 3 vs tpc 450. I would expect the trikes to have modern suspensions and be up to par for race tracks we have now. Thats a long shot and will never happen, ever read the owners manual for your quad? It reads like a rider wrote it and then sent it to the legal department and lawyers re-wrote it. You think most of the magazine articles are any different, but the magazines have other influences in it also(can we say the big 4 as probably the greatest?)???? Once three wheeler is said, shown or talked about article will be pulled.

[deathman53]

even better would be a comparison of sport atvs from the mid-late 80's compared to what is currently offered. That would never happen either, as it would be quite embarrassing to the big 4. Compared to dirtbikes, atvs moved a at snails pace in development.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

even better would be a comparison of sport atvs from the mid-late 80's compared to what is currently offered. That would never happen either, as it would be quite embarrassing to the big 4. Compared to dirtbikes, atvs moved a at snails pace in development.

That is exactly what the article was about that this thread pertains to. They also did a shootout between a modded LTR450 and modded 'Zilla in Dirtwheels too... Make no mistake, the vast majority of magazine people LOVE to ride/see the old dogs still making the dirt dance.

[rdlsz24]

They also did Raptor 250 vs Blaster a few months back. They know people like these old vs new articles so I think they will keep doing them.

Rob