Another Project Bike.

[Louis Mielke]

First I've got to state that this by no means is meant to steal any thunder from anyone else. This has been on the back burner for sometime now and when torker posted up his ATC250RF conversion it kinda made me sad that someone is beating me to it and so far looks likes he might have a better idea.


Honestly I'm trying to go smaller! I've started with a 86 ATC200X and stuff a CRF250R engine in it. Still a lot of work to do, and a full build thread will come along eventually. I'm really aiming for this one to be a 350X replacement. I want a nice small lite trike, with a torquey 4 stroke engine. Not much to say yet but I'll post some pictures and some build details.

This is to be the ultimate woods bike, with lite motocross duty.

So as far as details.

KTM 85sx inverts utilizing a set of HALLS PERFORMANCE triple clamps
86 ATC200x frame, tank and plastics
05 trx450R swingarm, and all rear components(yes the short one)
axis rear shock
and the rest of the details will come.

I nabbed this LOW LOW hour 07 CRF250R engine. You can eat off this thing.

89018

And here's what I have so far. Got some more work to do. More as it develops.

8901989020890218902289023

It's a tite fit but I'm going to lower the swing arm pivot to drop the back end of the engine down a little and that should line this up perfectly. More as it develops.

[audioworks04]

that looks almost too easy. Good luck man any ideas for the kicker yet? or bracing on the neck to hold these massive inverts?

[Louis Mielke]

I don't agree with some opinions that these old frames are not strong enough for inverts.

I'm also not using full sized dirt bike dirt bike forks. I'm using inverts off of a KTM85sx.
They're the same ones I'm running on my 500 and I've had no issues with them (other than seals but that seems to be a common problem on these forks)
I'll be using a short banshee kicker so the fenders shouldn't be a problem.

[torker]

Looks great man. Let's do this!!! I went with the R because I think it has great suspension from the factory and it's lighter. Also I trully believe that the radiator thing will be easier on an R. Plus there's the looks of the R's that I really dig. The 200X frame should have a ton of benefits over the R as it was design for a 4 stroke from the begining, plus everything is upgradable. It really looks good. That is one clean CR you got there.

TORKER.

[Louis Mielke]

Yeah, I knew there would be some challenges but I avoided the tank challenge. I'm trading off for a radiator mounting issue, and the need to add the linkage for the trx arm. Lots of work to do here.

[the great gazoo]

Wow, wow. Lou, you're so modest, & you know how to build a machine, looks really good so far.

[Billy Golightly]

Louis, I just remember this afternoon, I have a seat that'll fit this rig if you want or dont already have one? Hit me up some time, its on the house.

[Aka_am]

450r swingarm on a 2nd gen x? Spill the details man, I knew it could be done! Great work, I'm subscribed

[Louis Mielke]

Still under development bud. I've got a long way to go and this is a back burner project. I'll let you know all the details when it's all said and done.

[Aka_am]

Well can you take some pics of the swinger now? I've seen the 250r swaps done, and I have my swinger here and a 250r frame, and there's at least a inch difference

[audioworks04]

You will have to mill the ends off the 450r swinger inorder to use it on the water 250r frames. There is a spot where the bearing caps fit onto the stock 450r swing arm, pull those off and you will see the area that needs to be removed. When you do this, be careful not to remove too much material, it needs to fit tight into the frame. If possible try to retain the use of a modified bearing seal cap that the factory 450r swing uses so that the swing arm aluminum does not contact directly with the steel frame.

[Jason Hall]

Audioworks04
The swingarm fit's an R frame without milling the side's :Bounce I just recently put one on mine :beer

[Aka_am]

Audioworks04, that's the best how-to I've heard so far, of how to modify the swingarm. You should do a write-up!

I'm still shocked that Louis put a 450r swinger on a X. I was so for sure that I needed an aftermarket swingarm for my X because nothing fit from a newer model. This Is my favorite thread at the moment. :D

[Louis Mielke]

Trust me. This swing arm was machined. You won't fit one into any 200x frame right off the shelf. Sorry to disappoint you. Jason Hall is helping me out with this build. He might be able to point you in the right direction. he's a master at fitting square pegs into round holes.

[Aka_am]

I'm not disappointed by any means and I understand it was machined, I'm just saying the difference is huge in my eyes. Looking at your pics. There's not a lot of meat left on the swinger mounts, do you think it'll hold?

[Louis Mielke]

No question about it! It will definitely hold.

[Jason Hall]

That swingarm on the bike Is one that I used to build the last few bike's I've done. It's been on damn their every frame I own at one point :D This swinger was machined ALOT more than was needed to set the chain allighnment on other bike's. Louis's bike will have a totally different swingarm that will have the least amount taken off to make It work. I have ran my 450 at the thinnest amount I would do for a couple years now under some pretty gruelling ride's, that Include's 2 Insane dune trip's out West. I'm not saying It won't break, I'm just saying mine has held up for me. People that jump big, should probly have a swingarm built to take that abuse. For Louis, on this bike, I don't think he will need to worry. He and I talked about this some, and the swingarm pivot bolt will be relocated. Once the location Is found, I will make sure to leave the most room I can to keep the most material possable.

[Aka_am]

All right, thanks Jason! This sounds like a great possible rearend swap for 200x's now.

[audioworks04]

my mistake I was sure that I had read a thread somewhere about having to mill to fit the water 250r. I obviously have not personally tried this on the 250r frame....sorry for the confusion.

[Aka_am]

I think if you take the dust caps off, or shave a mm or two with a file, your good to go. If I had a tape, I'd measure the difference on my X, I swear it's like 1 inch+.

[Dirtcrasher]

Great project Lou, I always thought the 2nd generation 200X could take some more abuse!! Ever seen one crack?? Not me.................

The 450r swinger is what it is. To fit on a 350X those 2 areas that the dust caps ride on need to be remove almost completely. Then, Jason taught me to use the inside seal on the outside area (after you push the needle bearing in a hair more) and then run a thin hard thrust washer to prevent any side to side damage. I have bought SS thin washers just for this SWAP! for weither a 200X or 2350X frame. Don't discount a 350X frame, if it's gusseted like I do, I'm pretty confident in it's long term strength!

Not in Lous case or many others, but allot of people can make stuff fit and take a picture. That doesn't mean that it's done correctly or that it will last, but the pics will look nice and appear that you know what your doing :D If you don't like my honesty, I apologize, but it is what it is.....................

I recall only looking quickly, but the 350X and 200X are quite a bit narrower where the swinger fits so it will need to be milled down some. To the average guy without a mill, it can be done with a right angle grinder if you have a steady hand and your GOOD with that piece of equipment.

As for the 250R frame, the dimensions may be closer although I do not own a frame to confirm or post accurate information. Thats one thing I hate and again, not in this case. But I am so tired of the "it bolts right on" posts and then others say "it's not even close"?? Well, which is it!!

I think and always felt that the rectangular 200X frame would be great for a 250F, Unfortunately, I can't afford a good motor anytime soon and I dare say this, but I was thinking a Yamaha motor in my case as they seem more reliable. BUT, if you keep up with maintenance, I don't see any major flaw with the Hondas from my viewpoint. Other people work on them daily (such as Ninja) and can offer more "actual time tested information".

Lots of guys seem to stick with the 250R frame, I'm not sure why.... Maybe it's because they feel that the 250R frame was born and bred/built for racing so it will withstand newer technology better. I do however feel that a 86/87 200X frame will hold up just fine :D

I've rambled enough......

Looking good MilkMan, I can't wait to see more. I just wish I had done some work on my end too so I could help with some input. But the economy isn't helping me very much with that previous and future goal.

Looking forward to the next posts on this project, looks like the rough is going great thus far!! :beer

[tri-Z ripper]

Looks great so far! the little 200X frame with all that liquid 4 stroke power! man that thing would be such a great trail machine! nimble and easy to navigate tight trails! DC good input as always. I always enjoy reading posts form the Elite builders here on 3WW. Very inspiring to do it right the first time which i am a firm believer in!

[Louis Mielke]

Just a tiny update, the frame I started with is a little too rusty for my liking so i nabbed a low low hour cali frame with a title.:w00t: More as it develops.

[Mondexbrute]

cool can't wait to a video clip of this one!

[Shorty]

Need UPDATE!!!! AND LOTS OF :pics::pics::pics:!!

[Louis Mielke]

A little bird told me there might be some updated progress soon. We shall see.

[Jason Hall]

Yes, The engine will be mounted this weekend :w00t:

[Bryan Raffa]

Duel Pipes......:naughty::naughty::naughty:

[Jason Hall]

Louis, Derrick Is NOT a little bird, he Is bigger than Big Bird!! :lol

The engine looks Very at home In the X chassis. I LIKE IT!!!

[Louis Mielke]

Very Exciting!

[Dirtcrasher]

I have always loved that 86/87 200X frame, ever hear of a broken one??

Can't wait to see it mounted up :beer

Wish I had the funds to do one myself........ Someday though :beer

[NINJA]

I can't wait to see more pics of this. I agree, the 86-87 200X frame is fairly stout and a vast improvement over the 1st gen frame. If my poor little 200Xs could hall my big frame around for years and withstand repeated abuse I'm sure that frame will hold up just fine. Plus those frames look really cool. Keep up the good work!

[Jason Hall]

Here's a few pic's of the engine mounted with the top and front mount's. I will be working on re-locating the swinger pivot bolt through this week, should have the swinger fitted soon. The engine fit's SWEET!!! Everything clears, and all cover's will come off without any trouble. I have the lower mount made, and will tack that In place also.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Louisscrf-1.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Louisscrf2.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Louisscrf3.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Louisscrf4.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Louisscrf5.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Louisscrf6.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Louisscrf7.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Louisscrf9.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Louisscrf8-1.jpg

[Dirtcrasher]

SUPER NICE LOU!!

Look how nice that frame is..... I personally think it's the strongest ATC frame Honda ever made.............

Clearances are looking SUPER!! Christ, there's 3"s between the valve cover and the top tube!!

Great stuff, wish I had got it done 1st. I bet people will be amazed at the power this thing puts out and it will be very light also!!

Where's MY PROPS!! this was my idea!! :lol: J/K.... Some people said it was "too little motor" but guess what, it's lighter too! :D Everyone wanted a 450 motor which may suit some of you, but not me.......... I'm sure many others had the same thoughts though.....................But, my topic is now probably long deep in the page department though...

2 years ago I could have done this with NO budget at all, not now though; Yes I am jealous!! I think this is the perfect combination of weight. suspension and power!!

I'm broke as sh!t now! I ought to just credit card the whole friggen thing because this is what I want!! and I want it done!!

Lou's getting or has been married, maybe I can build it faster?? :naughty: Please take an 8 week Honeymoon :D Regardless, I'm very happy to see it done by ANYONE!! PERFECT COMBO!! IMHO!! Could I have her number so I can try and squash this build??:lol: I'll tell her how senseless these old buckets of rust are and she deserves a larger diamond..................and smaller ones on the side :D

Honestly, I'll sell my 350X, my crate motors and my 200X just to fund this project. I think it's gonna rip like nobodys buisness!! I'd dump 10K$ into the right ATC which I could get parts for and count on for (my life time and thats shrinking daily.....)

I HATE that these Yamahas' (They aren't a TriZ anymore....) seem so much more reliable but thats the motor I want in my 86 200X HONDA frame. Yamaha seems to have it fairly bulletproof......... (GET IT DONE HONDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!) Otherwise it will be a Honda chassis and Yamaha powerplant...............

Oh well, I am certainly happy for you Lou :beer ; It's tough for me to do anything at this point :( but this is driving me CRAZY - Equity loan here we come!!

Who wants some 350X crate motors?? Anyone have a YZF250F to trade?? I still can't trust the Hondas!, but I'm no racer either... I'm about done with these heavy arse thumpers. It's like owning an old XR350 with 3 wheels that was heavy and as useless as my ex women.... :lol: Even though they keep coming back!!

ESP. on a short track with tight corners, it's my opinion that these machine will smoke MANY other machines..............

Anyhow, sorry to be such a whiney b!tch :lol:, It's just that tough to watch my dreams be completed elsewhere and so far away from me financially...

Take care Lou!! You deserve it!! Drop it off, I promise it will be safe here :naughty:

PS - Can Someone teach me how to shorten these CR 125 inverts?? I promise I won't tell!! (But I m,ay have to make another set for at least DEEPA)......

[Louis Mielke]

All I've got to say is WOW Jason. Very exciting! I'll get those bearings asap for you! I'm so glad we went to that nicer frame and I'm extra glad I have a title for it. It looks like I'm gonna need the proof that I own it! lol!

I'm also looking so forward to this bike! Even if it's not some crazy ripper than will keep up with a 250r it still should be the ultimate play bike! Light and tiny!

[Jason Hall]

Yes, everything fit's like the engine was made special for this frame. The only bummer was the swinger pivot was not even close. Once that Is out of the way, It was just Perfect. Looks like LOTS of room for some radiator's also :naughty:

Louis, you better bring that title, because this one will be hard to let go He He..

[Kintore]

damn!!!

after this season. I think you may be making another Jason!

[OZQUAD44]

So here's a question worth asking. How easy would it be to fit up 250r plastics to that rig? or more specifically the tank and shrouds! Seems to me that there is a lot of room to hang radiators off the side of that frame.

Also where is the rear shock mount?

[Louis Mielke]

Liquid R rear fenders and tank would be difficult to adapt to the 86 200x frame as the tank is very different. The rear shock mount is going to get reworked to be stronger for use with a nice axis shock (eventually) and the TRX450R pro-link setup.

[Jason Hall]

The picture from the rear looking forward at the carb and exhaust Is deceiving. The carb Is angled toward the left, and believe It or not, the exhaust Is over to the right as far as It can go to leave enough room for the pipe to clear the frame tube. I will fit the shock around a YFZ450 Intake boot so a stock YFZ airbox and filter can be used. A stock trx450r Intake boot (carb to airbox) goes over the shock, where the YFZ boot goes around It on the left side. We have a couple Idea's for the radiator's and shrouds, not to worry, they will look COOL!!!

[3leggeddog]

F-N sick man.I can't wait to build mine.. Jason as always dude your fab skills are off the charts man!

[Louis Mielke]

Waiting on some bearings for the front end before things can be positioned and finalized but these suspension mock up shots are mighty tasty. This little bike is gonna be so sweet.

9387393874

[Kintore]

dude that thing is going to be TITS! i can not wait to thrash on it!

[atctim]

Can you guys go ahead and set up the suspension for a 260 pound rider for the initial test runs and shake down rides?

[oldskool83]

i like it, motor fits in super nice it looks.

[krazykane]

hey guys awesome build .brings ne back to my first trike i had a 200x was prob the best trike ever rode in the trials .but imo it needed to be faster and this will diff be faster then a x motor .so where are you guys at on this it been two weeks .

[Aka_am]

This is looking really nice! Any updates?

[The Goat]

Me thinks he needs an intake setup like mine!

Sorry to have interfered with your project for so long milkman!

[Tippmann98]

Any final pics on this build? Looking great so far!

[d_b3ck]

any updates, this build looks sick so far

[Louis Mielke]

Not too much progress at this point. Life has been busy and been in the way.

Here's the latest I have to show of it.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/LouissATC250F2.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/LouissATC250F.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/louis_mielke/LoiussATC250F3.jpg

[Louis Mielke]

This Project is for sale in the classifieds

[audioworks04]

Thats depressing, you have all the big money items already on it, just need a few more items and a little more time.

[Louis Mielke]

Yeah, i wish i would have got it completed too but sometimes you just need to make the right decisions.

[Grindin' Gearz]

Build looks great! Awesome Fab work too, so sad to hear it has to go, I hope some one on here pics it up and does justice to all your hard work. I heard vealmonkey is in your area... Hint hint.... Lol good luck!

[Aka_am]

Can your measure the motor for me. Thanks