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View Full Version : XR200S hybrid build expectations?



J-roc
05-14-2010, 09:06 PM
Here's what I got:

'84 200S complete bottom end
'88 XR200R cylinder, (10:1) piston, head, cam, rockers w/cover and carb
'84 200M Ignition system (coil, harness, CDI, pulse gen)
'85 Cobra exhaust - yea, it's rusty..

New rings, cylinder bore in spec and honed, new timing chain/tensioner, new primary coils. No issues assembling it, still haven't dropped it into the trike yet..

I do have a couple 200X bottom ends but I prefer pull start, kicking a bike in the mud hole sucks. Plus this engine will still appear to be stock in my 200S chassis, they will never know.:twisted:

Question: What benefit could I see from using a 200X, 200S or some other CDI ignition system? I have many to choose from, just happened the 200M system was handy at the time.

I'm hoping for 18-20hp but I will never know really, all that matters is I blow by the quads, lol.

Cheers.

:TrikesOwn

atc500x
05-14-2010, 11:11 PM
The only difference between all 200 cdi model is maybe the power curve,timming advance.....

I have this setup in my 200x,xr200 piston cam carb,and a supertrapp exhaust,and some porting and the difference is great!

J-roc
05-15-2010, 10:32 AM
Cool, thanks for the info. I assumed that was the case with the different CDI units, now to go find a 200X harness and unit in my parts bin.

Cheers.

torker
05-16-2010, 12:56 AM
This sounds really good man. Let's see some pics...

TORKER.

J-roc
05-17-2010, 10:50 PM
Pictures? Picture an atc200s engine, that's what it looks like except it has '194cc' on the base of the jug instead of '192cc', which happens to be the only way I can tell it apart from my other 200s engines, lol.

As of now I have it ready to drop in to a bike frame, I did custom make (separated the ignition wires from the lighting (ACC) wires) a wiring harness to get the CDI box up high on the handlebar or wherever it will work to keep it dry, I plan on swamping this bad boy so it has to be very reliable, the coil seems to work fine underwater. If it wasn't for the pulse generator I'd be able to hide all the wiring in the frame and no one would see any wires, very clean looking..

I tested the chopped harness and CDI on my 200m and it works great. Now I'm thinking of building an ACC harness in case I want lights or 12v power some time later on, but for now it's very basic setup to keep it simple.

Now, if I find inspiration to polish this engine up, then I'd post up some flashy pictures, then it would be something neat to see, but right now, it looks like any other honda 200cc trike engine, flaky gray paint and all, lol.

Thank you for your interest none the less, I do appreciate it and now wish I did polish the cases up before I built it, doh!

I still have an '88 XR200R block, if it wasn't for the main crank bearing sizes being difference from the atc200 crank bearings I would have built a 6spd auto clutch 200... I need a press... bad...

Cheers.

J-roc
05-17-2010, 10:52 PM
However, once I find a home for it I might be able to upload a small video of it running for you guys. I'm on dialup and have a very little ability to hurry up and wait so it won't be a long vid, just starting, idling and a little reving, maybe a wheelie or two, who knows.

Keep an eye out for a video update.:cool:

Cheers.

J-roc
05-18-2010, 08:43 PM
Alright, here you are guys, it don't look any different then before but here are two pictures, one of the completed engine and one close up of the jug to see "194cc".

Man this thing has a load of compression, no wonder kickers explode on the XR200R's, lucky for me I hadda older manual decompression switch rocker cover to use, but still awkward to pull with one hand and lift the lever with the other.. gotta stock up on recoil ropes for this one.

It is going to be installed in my 200s chassis in the next few days, it has a mint rear end and good plastics so I might as well use it up this summer!

:D

J-roc
05-19-2010, 04:51 PM
IT'S ALIVE!! Fired right up, second pull from being built, a bunch of minutes later I had the carb adjusted and was riding it around. Dropped the oil, it was mostly clean, refilled and ran it for 4 hours today and nearly killed myself 3 times, lol.

So the end result? How about wheelies in 2nd and 3rd gear without any help from weight transfer sound? Man this this has some JAM! It can go from a dead stop to top speed in under 8 seconds, which is only 50mph or so, but still out does my other bikes. Had to use the 25 inch tires (dirt dogs) and 9 inch rims from my 200M to balance the torque and top speed on my 200S, and of course I plan on running it in the mud.

Fun build, highly recommended for a LEGO build! (meaning no special machining or fabrications needed, plug and play!)

'84 200S chassis and exhaust system
'84 200S bottom end including stator
'84 200M rims and tires (dirt dogs)
'85 200X ignition system (CDI - pulser - custom ignition harnass)
'88 XR200R cylinder, (10:1) piston, head, cam, and carb

Didn't use the cobra exhaust on this project, needed to save it for another project, the '85 Honkie 200E! (suzuki LT230 + ATC200E engine - also in the final stages of testing)

I just can't stop doing this, OCD or something, so long as there is a complete running ATC200 engine lying around, I will find a bike to jam it in!

Cheers!

J-roc
05-19-2010, 05:22 PM
Here's what it looks like now, not really 'stock' appearing, more 'Mad Max' then a humble 200s, had to use an unrepairable front fender, I carved the beak off but left the mud flap to keep most of the mud off the engine, I think the rear fenders are from an atc125, fit very well with a little carving, hehe.

Can't wait till the weekend!

Cheers.

garretatc
05-22-2010, 12:17 AM
Man... Awesome... I'm in the middle of doing the same thing to my 185. XR piston and cam, barnett springs, jardine exhaust and 200x carb with uni filter. can you tell me what your gearing is, I have 12/44 with 22' tires, I wanted to go to 20's but that might be too small from what your saying.

J-roc
05-23-2010, 05:45 PM
I believe I'm running a 11 on the primary, not sure about the rear but whatever a 200S would come with stock is what is on it, 38t? I was running 20" and it was too slow, crazy torque, holds wheelies in any gear, but topped out too fast. I opted to go with my 200M rear tires which are 25" instead of re-gearing. I then swapped the 20"s onto the 200M and it came to life, quite a little speedster too, but not the same as this build.

I held my ground with a couple other quads and even a cr250 on a field 'race' track this weekend, I had them in the corners but they caught up in the straights.

Cheers.

TheRealFatShady
05-27-2010, 11:27 PM
Glad to hear it worked out. But does the 200x wiring really change anything from the 200s, 200, 185, 185s, 200m, xr200 wiring? Only differences I knew of:

No lighting coil on XR
200X stator has best lighting output for good headlight
200m has electric start

I thought they were otherwise all the exact same?

And I plan on a 200s build with a 12:1 wiseco piston set, maybe XR bottom end with 200x kicker gears, XR200 carb and cam. Will have that + sprockets and big tires made for speed, and then a stock-ish engine with different tires and sprockets for more towing/torque. That way one trike can have two uses with only having to spend an hour or less to swap between them.

One will be to ride with my ATC480R when finished, one to ride with my 250es when finished.

HaggLE
05-29-2010, 05:08 AM
Love the starter handle lol

J-roc
05-29-2010, 01:14 PM
200X has the best electrical system afaik. I haven't researched at all if the CDI is the same P/N but from what I can tell there is only two CDI box's for the 200 engines, one has a square plug, the other is round.

My '88XR engine has the lighting circuit but I opted for the 200S bottom end and simple 5 wire ignition system from the 200X.

That snowmobile recoil handle was necessary for that little bugger, no decompression switch makes it a real tough pull, still rips it from my hand every now and then when it kicks back, lol.

Had it out again this week, this time for a speed and endurance trial. Rode it hard to the bar for over 20 minutes on a long (27km) winding paved back road peaking out at 104kph on my GPS. I have never heard one of these little 200's rev so high before, I estimated it to be around 6000rpm or more, my 200M doesn't scream like that... Now I need an RPM gauge to see what it's really hitting.. It can do a 45+ degree grade hill climb in 3rd gear with a cute little roost even, hehe.

Well, back to the bush!

Cheers.

factoryX
05-29-2010, 04:00 PM
64.62 mph is pretty good for a atc200xr lol..

HaggLE
05-29-2010, 05:46 PM
they will do 10500rpm standard...
I have heard those motors do 12500rpm..

This has a similar motor and it would be reving in the 12k range.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsEFKYULNDc

J-roc
05-29-2010, 06:05 PM
Really! I would have never thought it would crank out that much RPM's, wow.

Now is that for a specific 200cc engine, like the 200X, or does that 10k standard cover all stock 200's?

Has anyone had success with reducing centrifugal weight and balancing these little thumpers? I'm tempted to do a crank job but I would like to hear if someone else has gone that far and what they ended up with.

Cheers.

J-roc
05-29-2010, 06:10 PM
Oh, i c. That vid is of a 125 cafe racer. That one might not be that good for comparison, the 125 cafe racer was built for racing, balanced and tuned, the trikes are not. That is why I guesstimated the RPM's to be in the 6K-6.5k region..

Man, I gotta find an RPM gauge fast, I wanna see for myself now, lol.

factoryX
05-29-2010, 10:33 PM
imo a xr200 will not produce 12,000 rpm, your crazy...

J-roc
05-29-2010, 11:47 PM
It would do that if it had (a lot) less centrifugal weight, then balanced to remove harmonic vibrations and rebuilt using really really tight valve springs and forged internal parts, but who has a couple grand to throw at a 200cc trike just to rip around on for fun? I built what I have with what I had available just for the heck of it and now I'm having fun with it. Now I want to tinker more, maybe some porting would help it flow better, mess with the ignition timing a little and run 110 octane for kicks, lol.

Speaking of internals, what are the tightest valve springs available for the 200? For that matter, is there a list of aftermarket or upgraded OEM internal engine parts for them as well?

HaggLE
05-31-2010, 04:58 PM
I think you will find that it will do 10k no worries.
That engine in the vid would be an xl185 engine with the 125 crank to make it 150cc.
The xl185 engine is pretty much exactly the same as an xr200 or 200x or 200s except the piston size.
They all have different cams, carbs, exhausts and gearbox ratios but heads (they could have different decompression methods), cranks and various other components are interchangable.
You can change the flywheel to a cb125 flywheel that is light and runs as an internal flywheel but you need to have the stator rewound to produce power suited to cdi instead of a 6 colt breaker points system.

You can also put the crank into the lathe and reduce the weight and machine the outer wheels smaller. I have seen this done before and it works quite well.

Personally if you want power, I suggest you go here and buy the mid range cam and springs and also the stroker crank and the 10.5:1 piston (its 11.5:1 with the stroker crank).

http://www.powroll.com/P_HONDA_XR200.htm

But if your only got money for one, buy the stroker crank!

J-roc
05-31-2010, 11:02 PM
Yea, a crank would be first, my bearings are a tad loose and she knocks a little. I knew that when I built it but wanted to see what kinda abuse it can take this way, and well, it still sounds the same and runs like a champ, lol.

Thanks for the more specific info, that makes a lot of sense to me now.

Soo many choices, soo many parts to buy and experiment with, muhahahha!

Cheers.

HaggLE
06-01-2010, 04:46 PM
If you have easy availability to it, E85 fuel is a cheap easy power but you need knowledge on jetting as it requires alot bigger jets.
You can gain up to 2hp with E85 and the right compression.