Why the down (upshift pattern)????????

[Dirtcrasher]

Honda's pretty bright - IMHO.......

Why did the early ATC70's and others shift down to increase the speed?

I let people ride these machines and the pattern confuses everyone. They are already too heavy to ride them, over rev them and then they upshift which actually downshifts! Then revs to the moon!! Makes me nervous all the time......

Now I have a old 50CC bike i'm fixing and it all shifts down to shift up! What a PITA!!

I just wonder WHY on earth they changed it for certain years and models??

Was the ATC90 always just an upshift model or was that another one??

[200xman]

The really strange thing is that in 1985 Honda changed all it's auto clutch models to the standard upshift pattern. For a while I had both an 84 and 85 125M in the garage and you really had to think about which one you were on. The only thing I can think of that may make sense is most people are used to pushing down on a gas pedal to go faster so maybe that was the reasoning?

[code200k]

i never got this neither...when my 200k was at my dads job, there was an 200s their to and took some time to get the patterns right.. stupid honda!

[puggerton03]

The 70cc ATC was meant for kids to ride. Its much easier to teach them to push down than it is to shift up.

[fabiodriven]

The 70cc ATC was meant for kids to ride. Its much easier to teach them to push down than it is to shift up.

That makes absolutely no sense. They still have to "toe up" to downshift anyways.

My KLT 160 is a down-upshift, but it doesn't bother me. In a situation like Todd's I can see where that would really become an issue. Two of the same trike, one up one down? Good luck!:lol:

[SWIGIN]

Those lay down motors were designed in the 50s or so and thats just the way it was till 85. Even the upright larger trikes were ''backwards'' shifting.

I kinda thought it was so kids could ride easier and to down shift (pull up on the shifter) most would just reach down with there hands and pull it up that way.

Maybe Honda just left them shift ''backwards'' to make the new ATCs different from dirt bikes....who knows.

[Mr_RPM]

i love the push down to shift up. when your drag racing all ya gotta do is stomp down to shift making it very hard to mis a gear.
when you gotta pull up in a drag race you can slip, or not pull up hard enough if you have poor foot strength and be stuck inbetween gear.

when i was about 7-8 years old when i first got my 110 i wasn't strong enough to pull up on the lever by foot. so i could still go fast and thanks to the auto clutch i could slow down enough to bend over and pull up on the lever with my hand. if it were the other way around it would have been pretty dangerous shifting from 3rd to 4th with my hand, or it woulda been hard on the clutch to just start out in the high gear. so maybe they did that on the 70s and 90s, and 110s for the little guys who couldn't pull up on the shifter. i know it helped me alot.

still today in a intense snow or hill climb moment when i need to shift down and its crucial to making it I will find myself grabbing the shifter with my hand as i know the shift will complete (and on the small 110s the shifter is really easy to grab, remember that if you dont have one)
i mean the 110 is a very long travel shifter compared to anything else i have ridden

[Mr_RPM]

I kinda thought it was so kids could ride easier and to down shift (pull up on the shifter) most would just reach down with there hands and pull it up that way.


EXACTLY thats what i did as a kid as i explained! you beat me to it =)

[3wheelsinPA]

Actually I think the 70's and other bikes where like that to prevent you from putting it in gear getting on and off. If it's in N and you step on the shifter when getting on, nothing happens.

[Mr_RPM]

Actually I think the 70's and other bikes where like that to prevent you from putting it in gear getting on and off. If it's in N and you step on the shifter when getting on, nothing happens.

first off bikes with auto clutches wouldn't matter unless you hit the gas and shifted. and every manual clutch machine i have ever ridden has first with a push down on the shifter.
with most machines pushing down on the shifter means your going somewhere, unless its a auto clutch machine without the backwards shifting, which the 70 has i think. so it means pushing down means 1st gear.

[3wheelsinPA]

first off bikes with auto clutches wouldn't matter unless you hit the gas and shifted. and every manual clutch machine i have ever ridden has first with a push down on the shifter.
with most machines pushing down on the shifter means your going somewhere, unless its a auto clutch machine without the backwards shifting, which the 70 has i think. so it means pushing down means 1st gear.

Thanks for clearing that up?
1985 was the first year for up shifting on the 70 and 110, previous years were down. Not coincidentally, March 1984 was when CPSC released its report blasting 3 wheelers about safety issues. As kids bikes, I was told it was a safety feature to prevent putting it in gear when getting on or off. Right or wrong, that's what I heard, take it for what it is.
You can't picture a scenario where a kid climbs on a trike (the aforementioned 70 or 110), accidentally puts it in gear by stepping down on the shifter, bumps the gas and tumbles off the back?

[Mr_RPM]

yeah that makes sense. to bad they didn't get to it till 85 lol. i see how that would be a safety issue on little bikes.

[Jerm1179]

its hard getting on my brothers 200s when we are riding....just seems to backwards from my X

[BIGREDGUY]

[QUOTE=Mr_RPM;896496]i love the push down to shift up. when your drag racing all ya gotta do is stomp down to shift making it very hard to mis a gear.
when you gotta pull up in a drag race you can slip, or not pull up hard enough if you have poor foot strength and be stuck inbetween gear.

I agree 100%. It just feels more natural to push down to up-shift.

[tri again]

less likely to strip the shifter splines when powertripping with toes up to go faster?

stomp down go faster
step down on brake to stop too?

Remember trying to remember if you were on a britich/ euro bike

shifters and brakes were on the opposite sides!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got so aggravated with the kids stomping on the shifters and ruining them, I'd reset them vertically so you have to shift with your hand.

THAT'll teach 'em

[darrel632]

I think you'll find that all the Honda lay down motor platform from the 50CC to 110 cc auto clutch type in the passport/ trail series had a heel and toe shifter (up gear with the toe, down gear on the heal), they only started with a standard shifter without the heal shifter post 1972 +/- they didn't bother to change the shift pattern untill mid 80's when they realized that the people riding ATC's and the Trail 90-110 series had more in common with dirt bike riders than the in-town scooter users ( of course the 200X, 250r, and 350X were based on dirt bike motors so they shifted "properly" anyways)
But thats only my opinion based on the motors commonality between the different frames they were installed in