whats going to happen next?

[portland250r]

i want some opinions here.
i have some questions to start this off.
1 you think the USA will recover from corruption and chinese debt?
2 lots of people think the USA is not going to last much longer or is mostly screwed, would you agree with that or not?

[factoryX]

Kind of the wrong time to ask this, but lets put it this way, something will happen good or bad.

[cattle-dog]

i dont think we are supposed to talk politics .
But if you paid attention to the elections and whats going on in the U.S. there is a change coming and hopefully its a peacefull transition. there have been marches and rallys that the goverment has kept out of the news that were huge in a shot to keep the masses in the dark a bit longer.
I think we need to go back to the way things were when a man had to work hard to earn his dollar not sleep or not show and still get paid.
america has got lazy for the most part and has thought that our officals will take care of us, time to realize they are about the money not the people.
i for one think our goverment needs to be ran like a business that is not in the black, near me there is a town that does just that no wasted money, guess what the people who live there love it, and they have decent taxes. the officals do not waste money.
all i have to say is pay attention to what is really going on.
I love God and my country but we need to go back to the ways of the old days when us near 50 year olds were children.
as the song go`S my house is protected by the good lord and a gun. and maybe a 160 lb Dog
Don
aka Cattledog

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well stated Cattle-dog! :beer


Portland250r: I believe this country is definately at a crossroads, or at least very close to it. Our national debt is being monetized, with China being our single biggest debt holder. The national deficit is 3 times higher than it was 10 years ago. And while i was a Bush supporter, i will say i did not agree with everything he did, especially when it came to spending and the border. To me, the silver lining is that it seems that we the people are "waking up". And not a minute too soon. The question that remains to be answered is if we woke up in time. It creeps me out when i hear congess people, senators, and the president talking about silencing news organizations. Rockefeller said a week or 2 ago that he wishes he could have the FCC say to Fox News and MSNBC, no more, done, shut down. Its amazing and scary the level of contempt that some elected politicians harbor for we the people and even the constitution!

It seems to me, that the farther this nation turns from God and our founding principles, the worse off we become. 50 years ago, when families ate supper together every night, and were in church together every Sunday, kids werent toting guns to school and killing their schoolmates. Kids were taught the meaning of earning their keep, and to respect their parents and consequently other people in general. I see it as no coinicidence that in the last few decades, when God and our founding principles have been under constant attack that we as a nation have suffered the many serious problems we are now facing. I realize that any society has its problems and always will, it just seems that in the last 50 years or so, ours have stepped on the accelerator......

[BGP]

Now, i'm sitting here reading this from "the outside" thinking I shouldn't say anything. However, in the past few years I've had to travel to Africa, Germany, The States and other provinces for work. One nagging recurring theme creeps up; actually make that two of them. Take it as you will, I'm not insinuating anything or trying to preach from atop my ATC, but, one of the two problems can be seen as a "crutch" and regardless of it's "Flavor" (sp...) it seems to invariably hold people back in their decision making and will to accept and/or view things from different perspectives. And that, to me, seems to make the respect of others and their beliefs and property a little harder to come by. Notice the neutrality of what I'm writing; many people around the world like to point the finger or "Book" at the USA all the while not realizing that their own "shiat" stinks pretty bad too, or worse! Nothing wrong with you guys. The world's perception of you guys, however, is not so sharp... and most of that has to do with theme number one.
Number two, is something that has a direct corelation to the last "50 years or so" of decline that we ALL have seen except for those who were in that position to begin with... Again, put the fact that I have been all over the place and good parts of it qualify as the proverbial "hell's two acres"; Come back home and look for our "two acres" and you'll see what I mean. Sad? yes. Ignorant comment? Perhaps, but It gets more obvious every that goes by...

Oh, and by the way. You'll be fine sooner that later. Also, kick Wally World to the curb! (Choose to buy from them for the low price. 80% of it is chinese... loose your job to chinese now you're FORCED to buy from them for the low price! Viscious circle that one...)

[hang&rattle]

Good comments guys. And yes, politics or God is something no one can really agree on anymore. As can be seen, this country is not exactly united or has the same idea's, morals, or beliefs. cattle-dog and RED-RIDE250 both know something, but now, in this day and age, inappropriate for them to speak out because it will tend to push more away being said. As a three-wheelin' community we have friends all over the world, but make no mistake about it our country is hated, not necessarily the common folk. Our own gov't is so hateful and evil that we are on the brink of a type revolution trying to get it back, but no one can (and won't) agree on the way to get it done. I think this country is going to change (as if it isn't totally different now) and must face reality, it won't be anything like it was. We are still good people, well I believe most of the common folk, & good people live in any country, right?

[Fungo Wizard]

I agree with all of the stuff you guys are sayig. Everyday I scratch my head at some of the silly things we do in this country. I think back 20 years ago when I was in high school and think about some of the things that go on now, and realize that stuff was not happening then. We have become too politically correct as a society. Everyone is entitled to something without having to work for anything. We are not a nation that follows God's word anymore. I know a lot of people will tell you they do, but where does it talk about same sex marriages in the Bible? Now, that is going to offend some people on here, but that is what I am talkng about.

Are people genuinally trying to look out for the welfare of their fellow man, or is about self gratification. I think we need to ditch South Park, and shows like that, because it is corrupting our kids. All the reality shows on tv are not a huge help to reality for our kids either. We have a lot of "using good judgement" issues in our country. Our kids think corruption, greed, selfishness are a norm anymore. I think we have alot of things to point to when we try to figure out what is wrong with our country, but I think it going to start with accountability. Parents need to have expectations for our kids, and I am just as guilty as anyone, and then have consequences when they don't meet those expectations. I think kids need two parents in the house. Before anyone chastises me for this comment, understand my parents were divorced when I was 2. I saw my dad roughly 10 times that I can remember my whole life and he lived 30 miles from me. Fortunately the man my mom married raised me as his own, and I turned out somewhat okay, but I work with kids everyday and a good number of them are not okay. I know there are situations that are unavoidable, but we not to at all costs make it work if we can. I did not know very many kids that were from divorced homes growing up, I was in the minority. I am not sure that is the case nowadays. I understand there are unavoidable reasons people end a marriage, and I think several on here are in that boat, but don't give up on your kids.

We need to get back to simplifying our lives and actually electing officials that are looking out for society and not their bottom line. We have a politician here that ran and got elected and has declared he is only running one term. Is that for the retirement? Why is it that our officials get to vote if they get a pay raise? Should we not see that on the ballot and if they have truly earned it then we can make that decision. If they are doing what they are supposed to and actually making decisions for the people they are serving they have a chance for a raise in the next election. I wish I had the luxury of deciding when i needed a raise.

I am sure I will upset some people with some of this, but it is time to cut thru the BS and start turning this ship in the right direction. I work everyday and struggle to make ends meet every month just like most of you, and I am just a guilty to conforming to society as anyone, but it is time we become a hard nosed nation again.

[Spaulding350X]

AMEN cattle-dog

[portland250r]

a problem i see is people dont pay as much attention to whats going on and they dont do enough research. a huge percent of our people can be convinced just from a commercial for election thats all it takes. for someone with power to lie through a tv and he has most of american voters. obama is making some mistakes he is giving all our money to the middle east for peace treaties and wants to make it where illegals can vote he is helping the people who our hurting us. i would like to keep this a little off the politacal side, its good how we can talk about this without any severe arguments.



and what do you think the relations between china and the usa hold for the future? some say we are friends with china others think there is going to be a war.

[factoryX]

another thing is look at where your located. Portland is a very depressing/expensive place to live, kind of why I moved to bend. As for china, who knows. They are buying up land around the world, including oil fields in the Texas.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Youre dead on FactoryX. They are buying raw material mines around the world like its going out of style. I have heard on the news that they are quite into lithium (used for high tech batteries) as well as other raw material rich lands....They are playing a chess game and are poised to be in control of a majority of the worlds resources....

[Mr_RPM]

China is said to be the worlds next super power. As to if this is accurate or not I'm not sure and no one can know for sure. But where they stand now and where they are going I can see it happening.

[Vealmonkey]

You don't necessarily need 2 parents in the house as long as you have 1 concerned parent in the house. Tough love is not a bad thing. Some parents try to be their childrens friends, not thier parents. Also, what is the incentive for someone when they don't have to go to work, get paid money for having a kid and get handed money to live and has better health benefits than I do? The government is messing up by squeezing the middle class dry, when it's the middle class paying for the country. Then you have liberals who want to guarantee illegals in this country medical and jobs and benefits that have paid zero into the system. It was bad enough the USA getting away from the gold standard for the dollar, and now the government allows themselves to borrow from any program, mainly social security to fund things that don't need funded to help people that should be receiving zero benefits??? High ranking government officials that have all kinds of conflicting interests such as haliburton and blackwater and other government contractors. Now all american citizens have to pay the price for terrorists in the US. I have to go to the airport and be searched and x-rayed because it's politically incorrect to racially profile possible terrorists. I served 6 years active duty in the military. I've carried the caskets of dead marines and US embassy type people. If you have to profile muslims, so be it. If the muslims don't like it, leave. This nation is made up of peoples who came from other countries that couldn't wait to become citizens and do their best to speak the language and become americans. Those days are long gone. The terrorists have won. We as americans are losing our freedoms because of foreigners. I shouldn't have to dial the phone and press 1 for english. It's hard for me not to be enraged while speaking about any of this.

[dcreel]

I agree with Vealmonkey 100%, and couldn't have said it any better. I think the parenting is a huge issue these days. Especially in my area. It seems these parents around here forget about their kids when they hit 5 or 6 years old. They run around the neighborhood with no supervision. Toddlers not in car seats. People are lazy, the government has capitalized on it. And penalized the middle class for it. Technology doesn't help any. The more technologically advanced we get the more expensive every thing gets which means we need to spend more time away from home and our families to make more money to afford the things we want or need. Back in the 50's and 60's before the government started ripping off its own constituents to line their own pockets, a father could work 1 job and the mother could stay home and raise the kids. Not anymore.. both parents have to work to break even. It's just a vicious cycle we as the buyers of some of these things can affect a change in as well.

I'll tell ya.. sometimes I'm envious of the Amish. For putting family, and hard work in front of technology. I wish I could do it.. but I can't. I guess that means I'm part of the problem.

But I can tell you that if my children act up anywhere.. and need a spank or two.. They are going to get it.. wherever, whenever.. When it comes to child rearing I do it old school.. Just like my mom did and her mom before her.

[cattle-dog]

you guys hit the nail on the head, when we as americans lost our rights to dicipline our children and gave crimminals rights we lost the fight at that point america started to change over the years our children found that thier parents are held responsible and got the punishment not them,
our children have been brain washed that if we punish them we hate them and abuse them not trying to make them into moral human beings,our crmminals have been given more rights than thier the good people they harm.
america needs to return to the the old way when god, family and our country were away of life,
i remember when people came here they learned english and were proud to speak it as it stood for freedom and thier right to become american not just to come here and live off our backs and be given money and tax payers money to start businesses tax free.
i know not everyone likes country music but there is true meaning in the song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0sYnro_3Rc

[portland250r]

speaking of kids not being raised right, i seen on ethe other day he was 9 and was already calling his mom a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro.

[hang&rattle]

Hey, thanks fellas for bringing up the kid thing. Everyone knows I am a single parent and pay dearly for it. Employers are so immoral on the 'double standard', I have been turned down for jobs because I am a single parent, not acceptable for a male to leave the construction site for an issue at school or take time off for doctors appointments etc.. I paid alot of money for custody, 3x more than a female will. My kids are top-knotch though, just fun. But I struggle to keep the heat on and 'good food' on the table. The only thing that's easy is our triking. If I don't have the cash, I have the parts. I have put used clutches in to hold me over and epoxied petcocks open and use a cheap inline to get by, and the technical help from by triken brethren, heck, parts have been given to my son from members, that's american. I'm a freak in the modern view, but 40-50 years ago, I'd be a hero. The country is to far past gone, I mean, how can it be fixed at this point? In a Godless society, remember, many of us are not anti-Christian (etc.), but the laws have made God wrong and even illegal, so no standing anymore on what this country originated from, and that sucks. GREAT THREAD GUYS!, GOOD ENCOURAGEMENT!

[sittinguy]

Just like life/home/car/health insurance. It might be time to think about food insurance.
Our society is very fragile and there are alot of sheeple out there.
You have almost nothing to lose by being prepared, but everything to lose by not being prepared.

If TSHTF, how long could you stay home, ask yourself?

[Dirtcrasher]

A good example is the power failure we had on my road last week. Nearly 10 hours with no power = no water, temp got down to 50 in the house, no phone, cable or internet; I read a book......

It truly would be survival of the fittest and the best prepared that could sustain life, but for how long?? How big a generator can the average guy have? how much diesel or gas to run them can be on hand and available? how much fresh water and food do you have, what about your pets? If anyone knocks out our power grid for a sustained period, we will be less populated. And if it happens in the winter, it's that much worse.....

I haven't liked the way this country's been going since I was old enough to understand. Probably when you buy a home and pay real estate taxes along with state and federal taxes is when you realize how much it costs to live. Add health care to that and the costs are just unbelievable.

The Democrats gave so much away, now the Republicans are trying to stop it or say "HEY, We'll fund this as long as we can cut something else!!" Which is absolutely the right way to run things. Unfortunately if they do stop giving federal unemployment funds, millions will be out of money this December. They've spent their savings, took out their tanked 401K plan, cut back immensely and many have written/typed hundreds of resume's but they can't get a job. Many of us (myself included) WANT to work. Nothing is worse than living like a pauper and having no routine, losing desire and motivation as every last dollar is spent.......
I know so many people out of work, that have always worked, it's scary. Is this a recession or a depression; Because I'll tell ya what, I'M DEPRESSED!!

We went from 3 crews and 5 box trucks to 3 employs (Boss, secretary, bosses brother) and 1 truck, all in a matter of months. The amount of bids coming in has dropped 80-90%, then you still have to undercut all the other bidders........ The company I worked for before that was located in an industrial park filled with other businesses is now an empty industrial park. At our peak we were ordering 150 or more Asian "temps". Then the layoffs begin, Walmart wanted there product cheaper and the company went bankrupt. I'm sure there were similar situations in that park but it was early evidence of what was to come.....

Between corporate greed, bonuses and all the materials we buy from oversees, it's setting us up for disaster. We are overpopulated and there aren't enough good paying jobs with good health care to go around. I watched in a commercial environment the easier or laborious jobs go to people brought in to work. Many of which would work for McDonalds and a place to live.

I know parts of the country are different, but around here the kids just want to text message. Is that a phase? or is it indicative of what the youth wants.
I walk down the street and everyone hangs their head down, no "hello" or response to one. Or, they are wearing an IPOD or surfing the web on there laptop or tablet. It's as if communication is gone, no one wants to get to know you but if they know they can get something from you, they'll be glad to get to know you.....

I'm done rambling.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

^^^^ it was a good "ramble" DC!

[hang&rattle]

Dirtcrasher- That wasn't rambling. I speak a different kind of slang, but you nailed it, what I wudda said & my life exactly and exactly what I am feeling and going through, even my previous employer. I now work for one of worst persons I have ever encountered. A rotten, terrible scum bag that would never get a second look a couple of years ago. The job service required me to take the job there, it was one of the last places I put in resume'. I had to take the job as a requirement. He is a crook, liar and cheat and the gov't doesn't care. He has even fired me once because I refused to do crappy work (well he bragged to all on the construction site he did, but never told me, lol), but my work is the only thing keeping money in his bank. Sad. This is not an argument thread, we all agree, isn't that crazy. We are heplessly watching this country become a 3rd world country and there is no stopping it, we all know deep down what is doomed to happen, just getting people prepared to accept it is the debate i spose'. Good word Dirtcrasher, and I truly understand and am living the same life you are forced to partner.

[cattle-dog]

here on my farm i am close to prepared, i have a well that is fit to drink, horses for transportation, plenty of ammo, we have a old wood burning cook stove that has a oven and hotwater tank. also have septic so toilet will still work have to manualy fill tank.also have a very large fuel storage. i am good with a bow or gun, can grow crops, have 86 acres 30 is woods, another favorite song is a country boy can survive

[portland250r]

i see the difference i was not around 40-50 years ago but now days people dont trust eachother and a lot dont have respect for no one, theres times you will be out and this punk will give you a nasty look or someone will be an asshole and that is a huge contributer people arent loyal to each other we went from a family to selfish greedy people. there are still lots out there who happen to be good people like us we are many of the few that still exists in america. the way a lot of people are now days is a good contributer the way i look at it is we are americans and we should watch out for other american people like they were family thats long gone now and im quite sure its never going to be that way again.dont even get me started about the power hungry people in office they are the worst when people lie to us to get whats they want they shouldnt be here if we are run by the people then the people need to run it but you got all this secrets being held from the public and you got greedy rich people running the office, it should be vulentary and not all money cause no middle class person can be in elections anymore it costs money and a lot of money then after they get in office people will bribe them to do something that helps them then they get more money and the cycle repeats people care about money more than their people.

[cattle-dog]

i very often see the greed and mistrust in my own siblings there are 9 of us, this is a sad state when things have went this far. i myself try to help others as long as it does not put my home or pets at risk doing so,
i am lucky to live in a nice older farming community there is only one younger couple and they are decent also, most here are 65 and up and look out for each other.
i worked hard to be in the position i am in now and gave up alot sometimes to much like never having kids, but if it all comes to a head i know i could ride it out fairly well for a few years until the dust settles

[JayBone]

This was a good read. I think many of you have excellent points. I always think i'm the only one who see's many of the things you have written about.

[Tri-Z 250]

If there was one sin I could eliminate...it would be greed; but I don't believe in a GOD.
Taking away social programs is no answer; but DRUG testing those who collect seems to elude us. Give away jobs...it makes me laugh at this point. OUR whole Econimic system is BASED on the exploitation of NATURAL RESOURCES and HUMAN LABOR. It has always come down to the bottom dollar. My brothers keeper...look at two examples that you'd think this would apply: Education: the US is NOT leading WHY? Teachers Unions dictate hrs, work load, class size, riddilan, and whats passable. All backed by a 10yr job gurantee that makes getting rid of a LAZY teacher near impossible, well until they're found to be a pedifile. What gets me the theory every kid is important from retard to class leader. Should we combine everyone and grade on a curve. Teaching DOWN to the lowest denomanator gets us no where. Why can no one read a ruller that graduates today? Sometime Johnny needs to be told he's a ditchdigger....but he needs the ablity to read a ruller and break fractions and figure area sq ft and volume to run a shovle. Teachers are just like everyone...easier not harder. They complain about kids need better parenting...oh yeah, the city people who are on the system are bad parents...go figure.
UNION AUTOWorker: The motto was MY Brothers Keeper....GM = Bailout, we invented the car/truck and forgien countries KILL our sales...with better product hands down...The union, CEO's, workers, excutives worried about getting paid, finding ways to cheap-in up the overall for more $room. CEO wants more$ as do the guy who sweaps the floors. How is retiremant based on your BEST pay years? Which in the Auto industry most empolyees close to retirement work the MOST overtime possible. You see seniority rules overtime so who gets it all...Bob the already at the top pay scale of 65K for tracking floor inventory....works night and day for triple his pay. While the $10hr entry level guy is layed off(thats how the Union set it up).
We need change? Look at all these people running...IF the republicans never backed that Pallian, GM would have gone bye bye. I believe the oppertunity for anouther MFG to move in was lost....Its more of the same treat the person who was wrong, with loving arms and a lets try that again approch. Amish??? besides the fact these people have cell phones and refrigerators in the barn and use electric to make money, they as well DON'T PAY TAXES!!NO Federal, or State and local incometax. Just like the teachers NO social Security is paid as well. They carry no workmans comp, bonds, or insurance that EVERY small business owners pay into Statewide. Yeah the simple life; I'll take 27% of my income back from a partner that only takes and never gives labor in return. If you want to get back to your bible teachings, might I remind you your faith is based on FEAR, and was the frist form of taxation. If you want GOD to save US all...your closer to Muhomad than you think.

[BGP]

If there was one sin I could eliminate...it would be greed; but I don't believe in a GOD.
Taking away social programs is no answer; but DRUG testing those who collect seems to elude us. Give away jobs...it makes me laugh at this point. OUR whole Econimic system is BASED on the exploitation of NATURAL RESOURCES and HUMAN LABOR. It has always come down to the bottom dollar. My brothers keeper...look at two examples that you'd think this would apply: Education: the US is NOT leading WHY? Teachers Unions dictate hrs, work load, class size, riddilan, and whats passable. All backed by a 10yr job gurantee that makes getting rid of a LAZY teacher near impossible, well until they're found to be a pedifile. What gets me the theory every kid is important from retard to class leader. Should we combine everyone and grade on a curve. Teaching DOWN to the lowest denomanator gets us no where. Why can no one read a ruller that graduates today? Sometime Johnny needs to be told he's a ditchdigger....but he needs the ablity to read a ruller and break fractions and figure area sq ft and volume to run a shovle. Teachers are just like everyone...easier not harder. They complain about kids need better parenting...oh yeah, the city people who are on the system are bad parents...go figure.
UNION AUTOWorker: The motto was MY Brothers Keeper....GM = Bailout, we invented the car/truck and forgien countries KILL our sales...with better product hands down...The union, CEO's, workers, excutives worried about getting paid, finding ways to cheap-in up the overall for more $room. CEO wants more$ as do the guy who sweaps the floors. How is retiremant based on your BEST pay years? Which in the Auto industry most empolyees close to retirement work the MOST overtime possible. You see seniority rules overtime so who gets it all...Bob the already at the top pay scale of 65K for tracking floor inventory....works night and day for triple his pay. While the $10hr entry level guy is layed off(thats how the Union set it up).
We need change? Look at all these people running...IF the republicans never backed that Pallian, GM would have gone bye bye. I believe the oppertunity for anouther MFG to move in was lost....Its more of the same treat the person who was wrong, with loving arms and a lets try that again approch. Amish??? besides the fact these people have cell phones and refrigerators in the barn and use electric to make money, they as well DON'T PAY TAXES!!NO Federal, or State and local incometax. Just like the teachers NO social Security is paid as well. They carry no workmans comp, bonds, or insurance that EVERY small business owners pay into Statewide. Yeah the simple life; I'll take 27% of my income back from a partner that only takes and never gives labor in return. If you want to get back to your bible teachings, might I remind you your faith is based on FEAR, and was the frist form of taxation. If you want GOD to save US all...your closer to Muhomad than you think.


OOOOWWW!!!!

I can't comment too much from this side but DAMN BABY!!! That was sweet!

And I thaught people like you were all but extinct!

Hand shake form me dude!

[dcreel]

I'll agree with everything you said except what you said about the Amish. Why would they pay into a system (Social Security) they don't use? They pay all other taxes except for social security if they are self employed. they don't take welfare, or unemployment. They do have propane powered refrigerators. Cell phones?? Come on.. That argument isn't going to hold water..

I was right with you.. until you started bagging on a group of people who take care of their own, and have practically removed themselves from the bs we live in everyday. weaksauce..

[Jerm1179]

along with teh amish why would teachers or anyother job that carries its own retirement plan pay into SocialSecurity? i just so happen to work for a school district...no, not a teacher but on the maintenance dept.. i have payed into my own retirement (state employees retirement) for the last 4 years or so and i worked for a local Municipality for damn near 7 years before that where i also paid into a transferable retirement (public employyes retirement) and also into Ohio Deferred Compensation as a "second" retirement plan. i work damn hard for my retirement program and benefits..noone is giving me trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro.
and i am teh last one to stick up for teachers BUT, as far as the teachers union deciding on hours, work load and riddilan...etc..
the state board decides the hours and basic teaching standards...the local school district (whom you voted for) decides the what the actual curriculum should be and the teacher must follow the guideline for that curriculum
riddilan? they may suggest your child should be tested for an "IEP" individual education plan and to talk to a pediatrician or family doctor but i have never heard of a teacher or their union prescribe or forcefeed drugs to a student
and the 10yr that a teacher gets only means that their contract doesnt need to get reviewd by the board every year...i get a continuing contract but that doesnt mean i am untouchable...in our contract aswell as any that i have seenincluding teachers contracts (we review them every 3 years to compare surrounding districts with our own), its 3 write ups and your fired....the first write up is a "writen verbal" the second is a write up with time off and the 3rd is time off and possible termination
if management has a hard time getting rid of a poor excuse for an employee we have noone to blame but the management and school officials and more importantly the board of ed. who we voted in to handle these issues

from what i read in your statement your just a union hater....and i agree that unions have their flaws and downfalls...but they also protect your everyday workers and back bones of organizations.....
seems to me you seem to think you know alot more than you do

some credit is due IMO though....the bail out was a joke...all it did was fill the already silver lined pockets of the ceo's with a little more gold

[Woodsrider]

Well ! Awesome thread !! I whole heartedly agree with MOST of what was written here. Things are not so different here in Canada. I realize we are not reviled as a nation like the great old U.S. of A. That and the fact that we have approximately 1/10th the population are our two biggest differences. All the same shite is happening here too...it's just less obvious because of our population difference...our economy is doing better than yours...for now anyway....but we're all heading for hell in a hand basket. I don't agree with getting rid of "South Park" as an example of a solution to a problem though...the damned problem is parents not parenting...South Park is good entertainment...for adults. We all need ( as nations)to start parenting and teaching accountability, and we need to stop BUYING FROM CHINA !!!! Even when I buy a light bulb, I search for made in Canada first, made in USA second, and made in "anywhere but China" third. I do this for EVERYTHING I purchase. I know I pay more, but I also get better quality, and paying less is usually just a false economy...you will eventually end up paying more...somehow. Just my 2 cents.

[Tri-Z 250]

My point isn't that they don't pay in....It's that the REST of us DO by LAW....for little to no return. You wonder why school are so expensive to run?? Its us supporting YOUR PROGRAM and retirement and it's all frontloaded into property taxes. Don't even get on your box and claim it comes out of your pocket(the union strong arms and strikes for it)...it's paided for in-full before the school year starts, my friend. If SS came to me and said I'll give you 75% of what you have vested in us in one lump check....and you never have to pay in again, but you can't collect or get Medicare I'd jump on it. At this point there will be nothing left behind at my retirement age....Oh wait retired teachers can get Medicare right? Oh yeah just as soon as that 3yr based full pay to the grave plan stop paying out. If 1 kid from your school district graduates below a 6th grade level, does every property owner jump up and ask for money back? Do you ask for less money because the economy in in the tank and want to give back 20% to the childern? Go work your 180day job and take some time off to run your cash landscaping/painting Co this summer. China: has had a plan since before WWII on taking over the USA...looks like Economy wise and MFG things look pretty good, plus the basically run ALL the Ports on the WestCoast.

[JayBone]

A must see video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EooBIIgihFs

This is what will happen 8:06

[cattle-dog]

the amish, i deal with them almost daily and yes they have a phone in the shop not in the home, i get rough cut beams for the barns i restore,
here is the thing there are amish that do live the old way but use a diesal or gas powered engine to power thier shops threw a belt system. and some that have a few modern things.
they dont need all the workmans comp or umemployment, or social security they will never use any of it,
we have had a construction company for 45 years and never had a comp claim or disability claim yet we pay 50 cents on the dollar because of all the lawsuits not a break for a perfect record.
lets keep this calm as it was going in a decent direction, lazy, corrupt, system abusers are the cause of the way things are not the amish lol.

[portland250r]

crap if it gets bad ebough im going to go somewhere else. its going to turn very ugly as time goes by and that video is a good warning.

[portland250r]

heres a important question: do you think our current depression is worse then all the past depressions we have had?

[cattle-dog]

not yet but it has only started, you can only pump so much money that we dont have back into the economy before the problem is worse than before , i think by the end of next year it wouldnt hurt to be prepared for a serious economic slump.i know that i have made our farm so that we can heat our home and feed our animals and ourselves off our 86 acres. everything is paid for except the girlfriends car so no one can take our home. the hardest thing would be the possibility of no electricity but that is not something you have to have. it is possible you need to be self sufficent.

[Jerm1179]

one...yes i do pay into my retirement, along with the district...so your wrong there
two...yes alot of schools are taking freezes and to avoid lay offs writing up temporary pay cuts to keep staff working...look wrong again
three...i work a 260day contract wrong again
once again you seem to think you know alot more than you do

[portland250r]

bad thing is weak economy then no money for military and country then we become a sitting duck, a whole bunch of people say its going to get bad enough that the police are going to get overthrown in a lot of areas. i dont know what to believe and i dont think this is something that can be predicted 100%, the middle east might take advantage and we would really be in trouble.
the bad part is we are hated by a good amount of the world over really retarded things, religion and most of all stereotypes theres a whole bunch of 3rd world everyday people who say we are all the same and we are the devils spawn but then people here say being in iran as an american is more safe then being in your own living room. i like to keep neutural and if we hit the bucket hard i hope we can recover.
there was a book writer who wrote about 2012 and what will happen to people he wrote detailed and acted like he knew it all like it already happened after making money off it he said he didnt know what would happen and didnt even know if 2012 was another false prediction like y2k, he did that to strike it rich. obama is almost done with this term but could go back into election i hope america does the right thing, right now we are mostly owned by china if you look at it money wise. we need to quit spending money for people and places that do us no good.

[JayBone]

I think the great depression was the worst only from reading and pictures of course. Then again they had no regulation to prevent that in the market. Now that's in place and some may say regulation is bad, but maybe in this situation it's a good thing. Will we see it get that bad again? It will take a long time this time around if it even happens. I mean if you just look around your town and see how much junk is around you that you could use to survive if it was another great depression. So many people on this site have awsome skills and could make due with old junk most people throw away. We do it here all the time!!

Banks are hording money the news says and so are other companies. I have no idea cause i'm just an average worker, What i see is many counties are in debt. Look at people around you. A certain amount are all in debt and when the majority is in debt and the others aren't how is it going to go? It has to stay slow going because so many have a hard time catching up on bills etc. It could get much worse, but until people and counties get the finace part fixed and we get in the positive it's gonna stay this way. I'm only using the theory of opening a business and it's tough to make a profit the first few years so you could be negitive or break even, but as long as you keep moving forward make changes get the right people you eventually start to profit.

One other thing. For you guys who live in the mid west My pop was a trucker for allied van lines in the late 60's i guess through the 70's & 80's and he said it was bad when you could drive for hours and only see like 10 trucks on the higway. I traveled in my last place of work and i saw where truckers were everywhere!!! on the highway until 08 and you saw less truckers. It's been 2 years now since i have traveled OH, Indy,Wis, Min but i would guess you see truckers that are still plentyfull. That is an easy guage on the economy.

[Dirtcrasher]

Ahhh politics and religion, tough things to discuss but I think were mostly on the same page.

Personally (and I mean no offense to anyone) I do not believe in one god. We came from somewhere and I call it evolution. I also believe there must be some sort of life elsewhere in the galaxy. Just because we breath oxygen and CO2 doesn't mean it can't be different elsewhere.

I believe religion helps people deal with death and or there fear of dying and "what happens next"......

I'll say this though, at least we don't believe in a god that will give you virgins if you blow yourself up and kill a bunch of Americans.... Be it Jewish, Catholic, Protestant or whatever - your individual beliefs don't cause harm to people.

And far as being a sitting duck, I just can't believe how much aid we give to other nations and they despise Americans, yet we help EVERYONE!! Imagine the people we've helped or borrowed money from attacking us?? Sounds like when you help a friend and he comes back to screw you over; CRAZY!!

[Mr_RPM]

I feel the same about religion dirtcrasher, also about us lending money. Didn't we give the Taliban (or some other modern day terrorist group) funds and weapons back in the cold war or something to help fight iran, something like that. alot of history channel memories get mushed together over the years. lol talk about helping out a friend to have them treat us with respect...not lol.

also that video was great, but also observe its 2 years old. things have changed a bit since then. I like to think it stabilized but maybe they just want us to think that so we spend again. another thing about that video, the ending portion starting at 8 mins, TOTAL crap IMHO. If government were to start getting out of control like that the people would realize and revolt. America was built because of a revolution against the brits, and we remember that and know history repeats itself. The sales of guns has increased greatly since the resent decline in economic stability and that shows the american people probably wont sit back and let things change so much with out a fight. I am one for a revolution and would risk my life fighting for whats right and what I believe in if I was forced to.

I sure am glad alot of people are saying the things we are, I was starting to think i was the only one and was going crazy. I am also all about preparing to live and survive if faced with and economic failure. Id say even though some posts are contradicting, I agree with everyone of you in one way or another, great thread. I love this site =)

[ATC Dude]

I feel the same about religion dirtcrasher, also about us lending money. Didn't we give the Taliban (or some other modern day terrorist group) funds and weapons back in the cold war or something to help fight iran, something like that.

We gave weapons, money and training to the Mujahideen(not the Taliban, they didn't really exist at the time), to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980's.

[Mr_RPM]

thankyou, thats right. i knew it was a group of people who some have now become terrorists.

[dcreel]

19 Facts About The Deindustrialization Of America That Will Blow Your Mind

The United States is rapidly becoming the very first "post-industrial" nation on the globe. All great economic empires eventually become fat and lazy and squander the great wealth that their forefathers have left them, but the pace at which America is accomplishing this is absolutely amazing. It was America that was at the forefront of the industrial revolution. It was America that showed the world how to mass produce everything from automobiles to televisions to airplanes. It was the great American manufacturing base that crushed Germany and Japan in World War II.

But now we are witnessing the deindustrialization of America . Tens of thousands of factories have left the United States in the past decade alone. Millions upon millions of manufacturing jobs have been lost in the same time period. The United States has become a nation that consumes everything in sight and yet produces increasingly little. Do you know what our biggest export is today? Waste paper. Yes, trash is the number one thing that we ship out to the rest of the world as we voraciously blow our money on whatever the rest of the world wants to sell to us. The United States has become bloated and spoiled and our economy is now just a shadow of what it once was. Once upon a time America could literally out produce the rest of the world combined. Today that is no longer true, but Americans sure do consume more than anyone else in the world. If the deindustrialization of America continues at this current pace, what possible kind of a future are we going to be leaving to our children?

Any great nation throughout history has been great at making things. So if the United States continues to allow its manufacturing base to erode at a staggering pace how in the world can the U.S. continue to consider itself to be a great nation? We have created the biggest debt bubble in the history of the world in an effort to maintain a very high standard of living, but the current state of affairs is not anywhere close to sustainable. Every single month America goes into more debt and every single month America gets poorer.

So what happens when the debt bubble pops?

The deindustrialization of the United States should be a top concern for every man, woman and child in the country. But sadly, most Americans do not have any idea what is going on around them.

For people like that, take this article and print it out and hand it to them. Perhaps what they will read below will shock them badly enough to awaken them from their slumber.

The following are 19 facts about the deindustrialization of America that will blow your mind....

#1 The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001. About 75 percent of those factories employed over 500 people when they were still in operation.





#2 Dell Inc., one of America ’s largest manufacturers of computers, has announced plans to dramatically expand its operations in China with an investment of over $100 billion over the next decade.




#3 Dell has announced that it will be closing its last large U.S. manufacturing facility in Winston-Salem , North Carolina in November. Approximately 900 jobs will be lost.




#4 In 2008, 1.2 billion cell phones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States ? Zero.




#5 According to a new study conducted by the Economic Policy Institute, if the U.S. trade deficit with China continues to increase at its current rate, the U.S. economy will lose over half a million jobs this year alone.




#6 As of the end of July, the U.S. trade deficit with China had risen 18 percent compared to the same time period a year ago.




#7 The United States has lost a total of about 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since October 2000.




#8 According to Tax Notes, between 1999 and 2008 employment at the foreign affiliates of U.S. parent companies increased an astounding 30 percent to 10.1 million. During that exact same time period, U.S. employment at American multinational corporations declined 8 percent to 21.1 million.




#9 In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.




#10 Ford Motor Company recently announced the closure of a factory that produces the Ford Ranger in St. Paul , Minnesota . Approximately 750 good paying middle class jobs are going to be lost because making Ford Rangers in Minnesota does not fit in with Ford's new "global" manufacturing strategy.




#11 As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing. The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.




#12 In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP. Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.




#13 The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.




#14 In 2001, the United States ranked fourth in the world in per capita broadband Internet use. Today it ranks 15th.




#15 Manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is actually lower in 2010 than it was in 1975.




#16 Printed circuit boards are used in tens of thousands of different products. Asia now produces 84 percent of them worldwide.




#17 The United States spends approximately $3.90 on Chinese goods for every $1 that the Chinese spend on goods from the United States .




#18 One prominent economist is projecting that the Chinese economy will be three times larger than the U.S. economy by the year 2040.




#19 The U.S. Census Bureau says that 43.6 million Americans are now living in poverty and according to them that is the highest number of poor Americans in the 51 years that records have been kept.



It has been about 18 years since Ross Perot told us that this would happen if our government passed NAFTA. Well here it is and our government is still too stupid to admit that he was right.

So how many tens of thousands more factories do we need to lose before we do something about it?

How many millions more Americans are going to become unemployed before we all admit that we have a very, very serious problem on our hands?

How many more trillions of dollars are going to leave the country before we realize that we are losing wealth at a pace that is killing our economy?

How many once great manufacturing cities are going to become rotting war zones like Detroit before we understand that we are committing national economic suicide?

The deindustrialization of America is a national crisis. It needs to be treated like one.

[hang&rattle]

^Good information dcreel, America is falling. It will fail. There is no stopping it. Hope everyone is prepared and does a reality check. This is real folks. Hard to fathom, hard for our egotistical brain-washed mind to actually think this 'Oh so great country' could fail. We as the people made it great, and we are no longer a part of the checks and balances. The gov't made it flounder, it's there country, they have won. What are we gonna do about it? Nothing politically, but socially we are still Americans. Up to us to bond together to live and survive. Just research till' ya are blue in the face, and once the truth soaks in, you'll think about how to live like we are going to have to, meek and conservative.

[hancadam]

I have been quietly following this thread. Glad to see others are aware. To me the writing is on the wall. There is literally not enough currency in the world to pay off our debt.

I have been trying to prepare for the past year or two. Sold most of my toys, thats why I haven't had any trikes or bikes in a while. Stocked up on as much non-perishable food as possible. Paid off/down debt. Just traded in my 1 year old Silverado on a small hatch back. Built a small barn to raise chickens and rabbits. Just trying to make my families life style as cheap as possible. My wife is fully on board.

I work for one of the large banks, and clients and Financial Advisors I talk to are equally worried. The smart ones anyways. Some are oblivious, think everything will be just fine as long as the government prints more stimulus.

Hopefully I am just paranoid from reading so much. I am not afraid of being wrong, hopefully I am. But if I am not, my family will be ok. My children are to precious to just ignore whats happening and drift along pretending things will be fine.