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ATCeeya
12-24-2010, 04:40 AM
This thread is much longer than I had intended. I ranted a bit so please forgive me.

So I bought a house a little over 2 years ago in a nice area. The house on the right is set back further than my house just so that his "parking lot" (massive stoned driveway with no garage just all stone and mud, only non paved street on the block!) is in complete view when in my back yard. It didnt take long at all for me to be sickened with looking at a fleet of cars when I went into my backyard. He is sort of a bum, doesnt take care of his home or property and im super into up keep of mine. There is always a bunch of random people showing up and living there, its a duplex, again, probably the only on the entire street,,,which wouldnt be a problem if he had some decent tenants and not so many. Last year he started to map out a pole barn just 3 foot off the property line in my direct line of site with dimensions of said garage larger than my house. Needless to say the town canned his idea and personally I dont think he has any money to pay for one considering the house has half the siding falling off and looks very shabby...Anyways, I planted 10 Norway Spruce trees to aid in blocking the parking lot from my view.

Soon after, we adopted 2 pitpull puppies. They are super friendly by the way. Anyways, we put up a 10 x 10 kennel complete with drainage, roof, astroturf floor. Its pretty rad. So when I went out the to kennel everyday to let my pups hang out i could still see through the trees and personally I didnt trust him to not poison them or something as i heard he was calling me an A-hole to people for not condoning the monster garage he wanted to build. So behind the Norways I had room, so I put up about 50 foot long 6foot tall "neighbor hater" fence. I must say, life is good since then.

Now my neighbor on the left hand side is an old guy with his wife, his neghbor on his left, another old guy, has a chain link fence around his yard for their now diseased dog. My Old man neighbor hates it, hates fences in general. Has made a point since I moved in to let me know that. Almost had a heartattack when I first mentioned wanting to fence in the yard. Him and his wife tag-teamed me with "its not neighborly". Now me and Old man neighbor have a really good repor. Talk frequently, Ive done some work for him already. Recently, he asked me to do some more work (snowplow his driveway for the winter)..I gave a plenty fair estimate and he bugged out about it. Like I was trying to rip him..he made me feel guilty but my old lady got pissed and told me he was an old fart for complaining and had no right. Well, he tells me to just "forget about it" and that his son was going to snowblow it instead. he played the poor-card which is hilarious since he has a sweet pension and buys a brand new car every 2 years and gives the old one to his son free, plus foots the bill for ballar family vacations. 2 days later we get a huge storm, I was out all night plowing and when I get home I do my driveway and go inside. He calls my phone for hours and when I finally talk to him he asks why I havent done his driveway? I laugh to myself and tell him, "well, you told me not to and you said your son was going to do it", well apparently he changed his tune when we got hit with over 30'' of snow in 2 days and asked me to do it then come in the house after. So I go out and plow him, go inside his house afterwards and he LOWBALLS me on price. WTF...anyways, I accept to be nice and smooth it over, plus im in his house and this is awkward now enough as I hate bickering over money with old neigbors. But after doing it it wasnt working out for me so I kindly gave him his money back and found him someone else.

Now back to the point of all this...We are basically tired of having to keep our dogs either in their kennel or in the house. They have so much energy and we dont always have time to take them on long walks. So if we could have them run freely around the yard, they will have plenty of room to burn off some steam. We already had the one dog run like crazy and take off in the road forcing cars to stop when he got away from my old lady as she was getting him from the kennel and we have deer and turkey and the other tenant side neighbor has a dog as well ,,and our other pup likes to chase other animals. So we want to fence in the entire yard now. I feel like its going to totally freek out my Old man neighbor. My old lady doesnt care a bit, she wants me to not worry about anybody else and just do what we want since were the ones paying 1200 a month mortage and not anybody else. She makes a valid arguement. But she isnt all chummy with the old man like I am. Although since he got all wierd about the snowplowing $$, I feel less bad about doing so.

Also, they always come into our yard to play with our dogs through the kennel,,and we have other neighborhood kids who ride ATVS in our back trails and they are always blowing through my yard which doenst bother me really but the old lady DOESNT like it at all and im sick of hearing her complain. Now with the dogs she is over protective and doesnt want people in our yard, Period. Plus the deer crap in my yard and the dogs eat it (sick) as well as the long boring conversations we constantly get stuck in when we go to get our dogs from the kennel the old neighbors flock and can easily eat up 30 minutes when you just want to go about your business and not be bothered. I know they are all retired but some of us work 10 hour days and then have other obligations after work to tend to and these convos really drag on especially when they talk about the SAME THING..

Ok so Im almost to the point of all this...We want to competely fence in the back yard. I know a 6 foot fence is going to completely freek the old man out. He likes it all open so his grandson can bomb around my yard daily on their lawn mower too. We want Privacy, for us, and the dogs. Keep the deer (and their crap) out. Keep kids, neighbors etc out and keep the dogs in allowing them to run freely and burn up some energy. They are just nuts at night and need more excersize and we definately have the yard for it.

So what do I do? 6 foot fence totally burning up the old man? Do a chain link which will not ruffle as many feathers however the dogs will bark at neighbors like crazy and they will be playing with them through fence. And that offers no privacy either. 4 foot wooden fence? Less high yet solid for dogs to not see through. I personally would love me some 6 foot wooden fence but I can settle for 4 foot or maybe even a 6 foot lattice then down to 4 foot a ways down the yard. I just dont know and hoping that typing all this out and getting opinions will help. Sorry so long.

This is the Tenant side neighbor. This is an old pic, I added more trees, the fence behind the trees and the dog kennel since this pic was taken. But you can see what Im talking about there. All that area behind the trees is where he parks cars and his junk.

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3852/1001166f.jpg

Here is a pic right when we moved in of my backyard pointing towards the back of my house, the left side is where I have the trees, fence, and kennel now. The dark brown house on the right is the old man. The Corral-style fencing pictured is mine also and was there when I bought the place and is still there. We would fence in the whole area just in front of those pines a few feet ahead of where I pictured.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3692/1000780n.jpg

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3483/1000781s.jpg

So what would you guys do, just do as YOU want and go with whatever fence suits you best or take neighbors into consideration and go with less agressive fence? Old lady says 6 foot but im "on the fence" about it. lol

Vealmonkey
12-24-2010, 06:45 AM
If you want 6 foot privacy fence, then 6 foot privacy fence it would be. No matter how chummy you are with the old neighbor, it helps to be chummy with the Mrs. LOL

TommyBoy1971
12-24-2010, 07:10 AM
Ditto, go with what you want. If the neighbor has problems with it, ask him to help with your mortgage.

200xman
12-24-2010, 07:49 AM
You are going to need a 6' fence since a pit bull will go right over a 4 footer. It's your property so do what you want.

plastikosmd
12-24-2010, 08:29 AM
as a first read it seems like you care about the feelings of a guy who has taken advantage of you at multiple times. To top it off, having the balls to lowball you after you fix an emergency situation, (where a normal person would have offered more than the going rate.) Put up the fence, he does not respect you, he is a 'user.' Do what is right for your family.

JayBone
12-24-2010, 08:42 AM
Put up the fence.

cattle-dog
12-24-2010, 09:11 AM
6ft fence or once the old guy is gone you will be doing it again

fabiodriven
12-24-2010, 10:04 AM
as a first read it seems like you care about the feelings of a guy who has taken advantage of you at multiple times. To top it off, having the balls to lowball you after you fix an emergency situation, (where a normal person would have offered more than the going rate.) Put up the fence, he does not respect you, he is a 'user.' Do what is right for your family.

He's right. I thought for sure you were going to say the guy brought you in the house and gave you more than what you had asked. He's got balls of steel to have you come over and plow him out in an emergency and then low-ball you. Do the fence.

SeaBass8
12-24-2010, 10:30 AM
Your a great nieghbor. I'd be happy to live next to you. IMO make the wife and dogs happy 1st then your nieghbors, you have to live with her 24/7.

fabiodriven
12-24-2010, 12:04 PM
Pitbulls are always super friendly right up until they tear out a childs throat. No offence, but they are genetically ingrained for aggressive behavior. I have a relative that lost there child to "the family pet". For heaven's sake please don't let them roam.

As far as neighbors are concerned. I've been in my house for 10 years and everything was great until my neighbor sold his house a couple years ago. Now we have a psychotic perv neighbor that climbs up and sits on top of the privacy fence.

There's one in every crowd.

I am a cat guy, but an animal lover in general. I don't currently have a dog but I have plenty of friends who are dogs. I know a lot of people with pit bulls and every single one of them I have met has been a spectacular dog. Let's try to stick with the topic here and not get into a pit bull argument here. It's like judging a group of people for the color of their skin.

racer....X
12-24-2010, 12:22 PM
I have a 6 foot fence around my yard and still mget along great with my neihbors. I say good fences make good neighbors

Fungo Wizard
12-24-2010, 12:27 PM
Pitbulls are always super friendly right up until they tear out a childs throat. No offence, but they are genetically ingrained for aggressive behavior. I have a relative that lost there child to "the family pet". For heaven's sake please don't let them roam.

As far as neighbors are concerned. I've been in my house for 10 years and everything was great until my neighbor sold his house a couple years ago. Now we have a psychotic perv neighbor that climbs up and sits on top of the privacy fence.

Sounds like you and MR. Perv need to have a discussion. Fortunately for me, all our neighbors have 6 ft privacy fences, as it appears the guy that owned the house before us liked to walk around naked with no curtains so they all made the investment. All I had to do when I moved in was connect to my house and privacy fence done. We are fortunate in that our kids and the neighbor kids all climb over the fences to play with each other, so I have built steps on our fences for them to all have access to each others yards.

Build the fence if that is what you want to do. I agree with everyone on here that as far as I can see, you are the one paying the mortgage on that property and you can do what you decide to do, well what the Mrs. decides for you to do. Good luck, and I fell your pain, cause I have a neighbor I have not talked to for about 4 years over a dog issue.

Mosh
12-24-2010, 12:37 PM
I generally try to keep the peace with my neighbors. For the most part, there is never any issues. But if there was any issues, I stand my ground if I am not in the wrong.

We had a neighbor that really was PITA..Much like yours is (probably even moreso). Over bearing, controlling and thinking everyone around him should bow to his wishes.
I was respectable about it long enough and one day it just came to a head. He kept arguing with me over property lines, lining the trails with barb wire and nails and brush.
So I went to the county office, got the map went out and removed the garbage, threw it back on his property and he approached me arguing about it. I pulled the map out and threw at him along with a tape measure.
I basically told him to go piss up a rope, I will do what I want especially with my own property.. I kept that mentality for a few years, and he sold the place.
The new tennants are actually pretty good friends of ours They have been there 8 years.

Don't let the guy tell you what to do. You tried to be nice and he skanks you. Let him dig his own ass out of the snow. Arguing with a old man (especially over money) is never going to work. They are set in their ways and will not change, and no matter what, he will feel like he should be in control over you because you are younger.
Ignore, him. Tell him in a polite way that he has no business in your property, and when he tries to make small talk, just say hello, and walk away.
You have a responsibilty and the right, to make your area safe with the dogs and it is your right and duty to do so.
But you will need to be prepared to deal with the reprocussions of how he will react to the fence. I can almost bet he will be pissy about it til the end of time, and try to make your life a living hell from the time you burry the first post..But I say 6ft should be what you need.

300rman
12-24-2010, 12:45 PM
You can raise any dog to be any way you want......it isnt too often you get a dog that is just un-trainable...99% of bad pet behavior = owner's fault.

as for the fence.....6 foot at least....but a deer can easily jump over that if they want. if they are eating stuff in your yard, then when it gets cold and food gets scarce, they will be visiting.

and i agree 100% with Mosh.....

It sounds like the neighbor is "chummy" just to manipulate you.

thestud25
12-24-2010, 01:17 PM
Pitbulls are always super friendly right up until they tear out a childs throat. No offence, but they are genetically ingrained for aggressive behavior. I have a relative that lost there child to "the family pet". For heaven's sake please don't let them roam.

As far as neighbors are concerned. I've been in my house for 10 years and everything was great until my neighbor sold his house a couple years ago. Now we have a psychotic perv neighbor that climbs up and sits on top of the privacy fence.

You are the person that gives the animal a bad name. Sorry your relative lost a child to a family pet, but they did not raise the dog right or monitor what was happenig between the dog and the child. Personal responsibilty and attention may have prevented that. I almost had my eye ripped out by a lab, I have been bitten by a cocker spaniel, and have my fair share of ill run ins with German Shepards. A dog is as agressive as they are raised. If the dog had showed tendencies of aggression they should have put it down or got rid of it! I own a pit bull and she is the biggest lap dog on earth. I also put down a pit because it was aggressive as all get out. I also owned a lab that I had to get rid of because it was too aggresive around children. When my nieces are over I put the dog in the backyard to eliminate any chance of a bad encounter.

Now that my rant is over. I say build the 6ft fence. A pit as well as multiple other large dogs can jump a 4ft with little effort. The neighbor will have to understand that you need to do what is right for your family, property, and your animals. When he starts ponying up cash to pay your mortgage payment, then give him a say in what you do to your property. If he gets all butt hurt over a fence, then your relationship with him was not that good to begin with. It seems that is the case anyways.

dcreel
12-24-2010, 01:43 PM
I agree with a 6 foot fence. I think it could be a bad thing for your neighbors to stick their hands and fingers into the fencing on the kennel. Any dog can bite. It also sounds like your old man neighbor is taking advantage of you. We have one across the street, we mowed his yard for less than anyone else would. We used to give him a ride to and from work (free), because he didn't have enough money to put a fuel pump on his car. Even though he makes as much money as the wife and I together. We put a stop to it, and are better because of it.

Dirtcrasher
12-24-2010, 01:51 PM
X3 - The guy is CHEAP! But eager to "use" people. Don't fret, thats only 80% of the population :lol:

ATCeeya
12-24-2010, 03:13 PM
thanks for all the great replies. this makes me feel much better. This thread I made here has got me thinking more. since day 1 my old man neighbor has been sort of a nag. right off the bat he was telling me there was No cutting the grass on Sundays. And he was serious about that too. One sunday I had to and he looked all bent and actually told me it was sunday and to put it away so I went in the house and waited for him to go inside then went back out and cut it. My old lady thought it was nuts and i was starting to agree with her. No cutting the grass during parties which I abide by. But his no fence rule is about to get broken. I had one old wheelbarrow in way back of my yard and he constantly complained about it. It was just 1 old little wheelbarrow stuffed between my pines. I dont even know how he seen it over there. Probably when he was stealing some stepping stones i have back there. He tells me almost daily to sell my wheelers, my Hotrod, that they will be junk in a few years because i dont use or need them. I just chalk it up to him being old but its starting to piss me off. Plus he has distracted me more times when im working in the garage..arrrrr...ive given him free mulch, stepping stones, tons of shrubs, cut down a tree for him and removed it all for free, and i hooked him up rediculously cheap on a grading job in his back yard. Cheaper than I should have. Saved him a fortune. I figured the plow estimate was plenty fair, i even offered to shovel his walkway to his front door and shovel in front of the garage. Most plow guys will NOT do that. And the one he has now doesnt. He asked me when i gave him the first Estimate,,"where the hell I came up with that price?!". I was shocked to be honest and apologized but tried to explain to him it was going rate plus i was tossing in a little extra cleanup. I even plowed his driveway again since the storm and refund because he had to get out in a pinch and couldnt since their new plow guy hadnt shown up yet. I had an hour before I had to go out for the night plowing again and had to first snowblow my way into his driveway then plow it clean. The reason I gave him his $ back was because I would be out so long and knew he wanted his done so I started having to pay my friends to stop by and clear it for him. But if I kept that up, Id be paying him to plow his driveway. So it had to end because the price way just too low to justify doing it.

His rear porch where they sit and do nothing all day is in line with the front of my garage. We had some huge ugly pines there between us that i cut down and I planted 3 beautiful Norways in their place that actually offer some privacy unlike the old pines that were there. Now, I would have rather just stuck a fence there too, but I knew he would hate that so I went with 3 Norways spruces because he loves trees. And it seems Im always the one paying for privacy. I also foot the bill on some old drainage that came up with the old tree that was mostly benefiting his side. I bought all new stuff and installed it. I could have just put the trees and filled it all in but i didnt. he loves the trees but he didnt offer to split any costs or anything. The relationship is going to go south once this fence goes up, he will not understand and will not want to. They already expressed their hatred for fences so i know what im getting into here.

Heres a pic I just took a few minutes ago. Shows both sides of my yard, Tenant fence side, then Old man side. You can see the chain link fence of the other neighbor which he dispises as well. Like I said before, he told me the only fences he likes are the ones we have up already. But you guys are right, I cant be a people pleaser forever.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9927/1001445u.jpg

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/4193/1001446.jpg

And as far as the dogs we already completed 8 weeks AKC puppy classes. They passed their puppy course and are going onto the next 8 week course. Then they will be taking the good citizen classes which means they can be around people and other pets. they already can, but its a certificate and they like the training classes. its good socialization for them. I know for fact its how you raise dogs. Everybody raises an eyesbrow when I tell them I have 2 pits but these dogs are like babys. I cannot begin to tell you how sweet they really are. The one pit likes to play bite alot, and jump. We are working on having her stop that daily. They are still young so we have time. But they could hurt somebody but not in an aggressive manner but in a playful manner. A playful bite and jump to the face to lick you could hurt someone or knock down and old lady crouching down to pet them. I know ive already been headbutted when they try to lick me and it hurts lol

Thorpe
12-24-2010, 03:28 PM
I am willing to bet that the wife allows you certain "privileges" that would dont want from the old neighbor guy... Hence, the wife wins! 6' privacy... Its your yard, you do as you please with it...

dcreel
12-24-2010, 04:30 PM
It's nice to get along with your neighbors, until it affects what you want to do with your life. If I was in your shoes, I'd put the fence up hoping it would piss him off.. then he'd leave you alone. As far as Pits go.. I've met a lot through friends and family, and have never met a vicious Pit Bull. I love that tv show Pit Bulls and Parolees. We just recently picked up an Italian Greyhound puppy, and she does the nipping thing too. It's a puppy thing. Got any pics of your puppies?

Mr_RPM
12-24-2010, 04:55 PM
also think you should put up a 6 foot (at least) fence. Its your property, and do what you want with it. I would really love a 6ft fence, with barbed wire just to get the point across. My close neighbors suck, both sides! right on the other side both ways are awesome guys who ride =)

Dirtcrasher
12-24-2010, 05:04 PM
It's nice to get along with your neighbors, until it affects what you want to do with your life. If I was in your shoes, I'd put the fence up hoping it would piss him off.. then he'd leave you alone. As far as Pits go.. I've met a lot through friends and family, and have never met a vicious Pit Bull. I love that tv show Pit Bulls and Parolees. We just recently picked up an Italian Greyhound puppy, and she does the nipping thing too. It's a puppy thing. Got any pics of your puppies?

Hey, I use to burn all my paper/cardboard trash in a steel drum. Then I started bangin the neighbor....... Long story short, now I have a huge pile of trash and I'm just waiting on burning season to start :(

She'd call the FD in a second, I don't doubt it.......

dcreel
12-24-2010, 05:36 PM
Hey, I use to burn all my paper/cardboard trash in a steel drum. Then I started bangin the neighbor....... Long story short, now I have a huge pile of trash and I'm just waiting on burning season to start :(

She'd call the FD in a second, I don't doubt it.......

You know what they say Dirtcrasher... "Don't s**t where you eat" :lol:

Lil Earl
12-24-2010, 06:29 PM
Go with the 6 foot fence, do what you want, it is your property

ATCeeya
12-24-2010, 07:32 PM
heres a pic of them in the kennel. They are much bigger now and are about a week apart in age (different litters). We got her in buffalo and went to ohio for him. when we got them both they were right around 7 lbs. The brindle boy is on the left and the fawn girl on the right. I took this (cell phone pic) to show how much faster he was growing than her. Now he is proabably 55lbs to her 40lbs but she still roughs him up good. His block head is in full effect now really giving him that pitty look.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/2407/puppies.png


the astroturf is awesome. they cant dig it up and its got about 6-8 inches of stone underneath which serves as drainage. the astro is perforated so they can pee and it will go through it. i highly reccomend it for a kennel.

dcreel
12-24-2010, 07:43 PM
Awesome, I love the brindle coloring on dogs.

Thorpe
12-24-2010, 08:32 PM
Hey, I use to burn all my paper/cardboard trash in a steel drum. Then I started bangin the neighbor....... Long story short, now I have a huge pile of trash and I'm just waiting on burning season to start :(

She'd call the FD in a second, I don't doubt it.......

Whoa... I was so glad when you said "she"... (Kidding D.C.)

bigbadktm
12-24-2010, 09:06 PM
those are some cute pups, old men tend to be old farts, and when that happens there is no returning from it. go with the fence, let those lil pups run their hearts out, make yellow snow and relax wherever they want to.

cattle-dog
12-24-2010, 10:00 PM
listen put up your fence if for nothing else but to protect the pups you just became responcible for. you owe it to them to keep them safe from people. i have a 14 year old pit/chow cross who has never scratched a child and he grew up with alot of them.

ATCeeya
12-25-2010, 02:08 AM
well all of you cant be wrong. I just needed to hear it from others. I will put up the fence for sure come spring. me and the old lady both want it and it will be the best for us and the dogs. i appreciate all the comments!!

Jeepermc
12-27-2010, 06:45 PM
I agree here too....6 ft fence. For you and the dogs. As said they will clear a 4 ftr no problem and it will do you no good...They may even clear your 6 footer. Might even consider an invisible fence install when you put up the fence to keep them back from it... Pits are jumpers.... I've got two that are my babies and I love em to death....One 8 year old and his 7-8 month old son.

Do YOUR fence.

TrailerRider
12-28-2010, 06:09 PM
Yup, fence it. He created his own pile of sh!t now let him stand in it. Now you won't have to worry about that annoying conversation cause he will want nothing to do with you. Then when he needs his proptery plowed you can charge him full price and he won't say anything cause he will now know your not a push over. Hell might make your relationship better, or not but you will win anyway :)

I had a neighbor that was awesome. Right before we moved in our last place he put up a fence. By the time we moved out he wanted to tear the fences down so we could all roam in between the properties. He was a good old boy and loved 3 wheeelers. Hell my daughters 85 110 came free from him becuase I fixed his grandson quad. He was a good neighbor. He even told me to go and take the 3 wheelers into his field and have fun. While I was temped I had more respect for him then to go tear up his fields.

tri again
12-29-2010, 07:40 AM
My all time favorite fence line concept is adverse possession.
If you buy a piece of property and the fence has been wherever it is for 10 years, the land belongs to the neighbors, regardless of what property maps say.

Old law from the 1800's and virtually impossible to fight.

(sorry if this is a duplicate...email keeps choking unpredictably)

beets442
12-30-2010, 02:15 PM
That old man grew up in an era when most everyone was cool, you talked things out. I'm not you, but I'm the kinda person if I can help my neighbors, I do it for free, I would NEVER ask for $. I believe good deeds come back to you. Some day you'll need help, do you want to be charged for it?
Now this younger gen to me, its me or nothing, I paid for it and don't care what you think.I work for my money, BLAA BLAA BLAA.
What do you think that old man is going thru, probably retired trying to enjoy what life he has left.....I guess giving isn't in your life right now, but when things are better for you, which I hope they will!, maybe some day you could afford to give someone something nice for a change. Believe me it feels good.
Having wide open property to me is PRICELESS, I would rather look at deer in my back yard than a fence.....

night4creeper
12-30-2010, 10:09 PM
Just like everyone else says, put up the fence, its your property. Check the city/county restrictions on the fence height and go the max height. Where I am at, its 6ft, which is what I have, then I added 2 ft of lattice on top as "decoration", wink, wink!

I know one guy that poured a 4 ft tall footer (above ground) then added the 6ft fence on top of that. the nut from the city only measures the fence boards, not the total height from the ground...

I'd even go ask the neighbors to split the cost of the fence on their sides with you as you will both benefit from it. That should really twist the old guy up.

squirrel1182
12-31-2010, 11:59 PM
your old man neighbor sounds almost like my neighbor behind us. She freaked out awhile back because my brother and i dig a hole mostly on our property and she couldn't even see it from her driveway or yard. she called my mom an unfit mother because we were allowed to play in the dirt.

Sometimes the lady on the other side of us needs her grass cut and shes cool about asking she trys to pay me every time i mow but she needs the money more than we do since her husband died a year or so ago and me and him were pretty good friends. This year she let me barrow her spare plow garden tractor so i can plow our driveway and plow her out if hers plow tractor wont start.

Oh and yeah id put the fence up and just ignore your neighbors.

350XJEDI
01-01-2011, 12:56 AM
biuld it the bibber the better and concrete or ston the base cus them dogs will dig under when they cant jump it my pit can clear a six footer if i throw the ball over it . the old man is not your freind or problom the less he sees in your yard the better for you