Are we really going green when it comes to cars and MPGs?

[Mr_RPM]

The last episode of the US Top Gear got me thinking.
they did a write up on Honda's New CR-Z. Its the first of its kind, called a "sport Hybrid"
It is sort of a remake to Honda's CR-X from the 80s. Basically to make a long story short, the Old CR-X from the 80s was faster and got better MPGs. The Old CR-X was said to get upwards of 50MPGs while the "sport hybrid" CR-Z gets 37 in its most gas forgiving mode and was said to get 30MPGs in its Sport mode.
Where has Honda gotten in the last 20-30 years? Honda does alot of amazing things, but really? are they really trying to give us the best MPGs avalable?
Look at the toyota Prius, I have heard (all my numbers here are just from what i have heard on TV and such) they get 50MPGs, the same average that the CR-X got in the 80s.
What about all of those turdy lame cars from back in the 70s/80s when there was the fuel crisis. while they may have been slow, and not very cool some models have been brought back into the spot light because back then we were getting 40, 50, even 60MPGs in a non hybrid gas burning engine. Now days you need to buy a super complex, expensive, and still lame car to get....the same, IF NOT worse gas Mileage then what was available back then.

Also, Watching the original Top Gear really opens up your automotive vocabulary and over years I have seen many cars offered in Europe to get 50-70 MPGs.

Look at the VW Polo http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/diesel/4219904
why arent these being sold here in the US right now? Why is the Prius so well known for its MPGs when this blows it out of the water? Its not just diesel, there are plenty of Gas engines that are getting better then 40MPGs without hybrid technology.


so are they really giving us the Best MPG rated cars they can make? Or are they just trying to make us think we are getting good gas Mileage? where has car technology gone since the 80s? why are they just giving us more complex was to burn just as much gas as we could in the 80s?

just my rant, I could have done better research and been more accurate but you get my point. It does not seem that we are getting anywhere.

[tecat-z]

I hear ya. My mom had a new 79 Honda civic lx loaded with all the comfort options. It was a 5 speed manual 2 door hatch that she had till probably 92. That car would get mid to upper 30's on the highway. Town usually went for a good 30. She is a conservative driver and has had many new 4cyl cars since then. NONE have returned that kind of mileage. But they tell us how good they are and how far they have come. That old 79 used a carb, while todays sophistacated fuel injection systems can't do it. Hype is all, it's a way to sell their agenda. Most people have very short memories.

[RDH/86200X]

my first car was a 1986 chevy chevette that was as fully loaded as a chevette can get. which amounts to air and power stearing but not power brakes. i would average 48mpg and the car had a 2 barrel carb and an automatic trans

[NINJA]

Go to your local library and dig out the old Consumer Reports from the early 90s. Practically every major manufacturer had a car that would get over 40 mpg. The ads these days, it's all just propaganda. They make the consumer think their car is getting better gas mileage than the cars from decades past. Tell me this, how does buying a Prius help the environment? You plug it into a wall, that electricity comes from a coal fired plant. They take more raw materials out of the ground including rare earth materials, to build that turd shaped car for enviroturds to drive around and chastise everyone else. What the hell do they plan on doing with all those batteries and the noxious materials within them when they start crapping out? Rechargeable batteries do wear out. How much toxic processing waste is produced to make those batteries and what do they do about that?
In reality, if you really are concerned about driving a car that will have the least amount of impact on the environment, keep the old V6 or I4 shitbox you had! Keep it in good repair and tune. Why do people feel they need to buy a new car every couple of years? Jesus Christ! Am I the only one that sees this? I feel like I'm taking trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro crazy pills!

[200xman]

Go to your local library and dig out the old Consumer Reports from the early 90s. Practically every major manufacturer had a car that would get over 40 mpg. The ads these days, it's all just propaganda. They make the consumer think their car is getting better gas mileage than the cars from decades past. Tell me this, how does buying a Prius help the environment? You plug it into a wall, that electricity comes from a coal fired plant. They take more raw materials out of the ground including rare earth materials, to build that turd shaped car for enviroturds to drive around and chastise everyone else. What the hell do they plan on doing with all those batteries and the noxious materials within them when they start crapping out? Rechargeable batteries do wear out. How much toxic processing waste is produced to make those batteries and what do they do about that?
In reality, if you really are concerned about driving a car that will have the least amount of impact on the environment, keep the old V6 or I4 shitbox you had! Keep it in good repair and tune. Why do people feel they need to buy a new car every couple of years? Jesus Christ! Am I the only one that sees this? I feel like I'm taking trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro crazy pills!

Amen brother! I had a 1989 Dodge W350, 6" lift, 35's, throttle body 360 that got better mileage than a 2003 Dodge 1500 4 door with a 360 that I had. That truck got 11 around town and 13 on the highway UGH! Look at the new diesels that get single digit mileage while towing. I don't get how you have lower emissions when you're burning twice the fuel.

[UlsterATCFan]

Interesting topic MR_RPM - generally speaking the reason why cars available in the USA have such poor MPG figures is because the American people are still in love with PETROL (or gasoline as you call it). Which is completely understandable as its still so cheap over there. Half of all new cars sold in Europe are diesels and the fact of the matter is that diesel engines are much much more efficient than petrol engines. The whole hybrid industry, if you'll forgive my French, is a load of bollocks. Its all about making people feel good that they're helping the environment and doing their part and embracing technology blah blah blah. The diesel Polo as in your link will do tons more miles per gallon than hybrids as will many other diesel cars. I was looking on the landrover site yesterday and noticed that new diesel landrovers arent even available in America, you get the V8 petrol but over here in the UK people would think you're insane if you drove a V8 car due to petrol prices and the sheer 'over the top' nature of a V8 in most Brits' eyes. I imagine alot of Americans are put off by diesel cars but you really shouldn't be - they're much more reliable than petrol cars, give waaaaaaay better MPG, have great torque and towing characteristics and can be quick as hell. BMW diesels in particular are amazing. So when the oil starts running out I think the push for better MPG will hit the States with a bang and mark my words you will see more and more diesel cars on your roads in the not too distant future

[Bretmd94]

The prius doesn't get 50mpg. More like 35mpg.

The old Honda Insight does get 50mpg. But I agree with what you are saying, I like that the crappy american top gear called them out on it. I love the British show

My newer chevy has some stupid gimick where is turns off 4 cylinders while gliding... If I breathe on the gas pedal it gets knocked into V8 mode. If I am sitting at a stop light its in V8 mode. I get 12mpg. Its an 07 new body style chevy full size PU. We haven't gone anywhere.

Its all a joke and americanized propaganda, until we are actually driving electric cars I am not buying into these hybrids.

I am interested to see how Chevy's electric car, the Volt, does. Though i hear it is spendy.

[Bretmd94]

Interesting topic MR_RPM - generally speaking the reason why cars available in the USA have such poor MPG figures is because the American people are still in love with PETROL (or gasoline as you call it). Which is completely understandable as its still so cheap over there. Half of all new cars sold in Europe are diesels and the fact of the matter is that diesel engines are much much more efficient than petrol engines. The whole hybrid industry, if you'll forgive my French, is a load of bollocks. Its all about making people feel good that they're helping the environment and doing their part and embracing technology blah blah blah. The diesel Polo as in your link will do tons more miles per gallon than hybrids as will many other diesel cars. I was looking on the landrover site yesterday and noticed that new diesel landrovers arent even available in America, you get the V8 petrol but over here in the UK people would think you're insane if you drove a V8 car due to petrol prices and the sheer 'over the top' nature of a V8 in most Brits' eyes. I imagine alot of Americans are put off by diesel cars but you really shouldn't be - they're much more reliable than petrol cars, give waaaaaaay better MPG, have great torque and towing characteristics and can be quick as hell. BMW diesels in particular are amazing. So when the oil starts running out I think the push for better MPG will hit the States with a bang and mark my words you will see more and more diesel cars on your roads in the not too distant future

This always confused me as well. I am well aware of all the diesels in Europe. There are a few diesel cars here, but are rare. Usually an old Mercedes or VW.

But we have a ton of diesel trucks, Dodge, Ford, and Chevy. Americans love them. We beef them up, inject propane and add ridiculous things like trucker stacks to our personal trucks

America would embrace diesel cars, the efficiency would be wasted though as we would find a way to make it go fast.

[300rman]

the efficiency would be wasted though as we would find a way to make it go fast.

I disagree, a large chunk of the populace doesnt change anything with their cars.

as for cars 30 years ago getting 50+mpg.....it really makes you wonder what the real agenda is, doest it?

[Dirtcrasher]

I read last week that by next year we could reach 5$ a gallon for regular gas. If I find the article, I'll post it.....

[Mr_RPM]

I disagree, a large chunk of the populace doesnt change anything with their cars.

as for cars 30 years ago getting 50+mpg.....it really makes you wonder what the real agenda is, doest it?

I agree with both statements here.

as for Diesel cars being brought over here, I think alot of people would go for it, sad thing is "good" MPG cars are sort of a fashion statement in some parts (not mine :lol:) such as why the prius became so popular because it was advertised and thought to be "the best".
If companies started advertising diesel cars as the new "Best" car for the environment they would be bought right up.
Get a few famous tree huggers to endorse in them and before ya know it California makes it their State car. :lol:

Basically anything can be sold to America with the right propaganda. I think if all of those efficient Euro cars were brought over here and were "hyped up" people would jump all over it.

NINJA, I could not agree more!!!
also, the manufacturing of these hybrids are very bad for the environment. BBC's Top Gear once said the Manufacturing of the Prius was so inefficient and the aftermath of the prius with it's battery debris would cause more environmental damage then it would have saved...dont quote me on that, ill look for a video or something.



FOUND IT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk

[inv3ctiv3]

I read last week that by next year we could reach 5$ a gallon for regular gas. If I find the article, I'll post it.....

That's about how expensive gas was here in CA for a while maybe 2-3 years ago.

[hang&rattle]

This poor country. Our cars are junk. Anything imported is junk. One of my mechanic buddy says any car in Europe will last longer than here. Way higher octane and cleaner gas. We get greedy oil companies who don't refine it all the way. A few great cars slipped thought in the 90's though. I have a Dodge Intrepid. 29 mpg and all the power you can ask of it. It's fast too. And I will be on 190,000 soon. But I remember cruzing the drag in high school. Toyota 4x4 pickups, VW scirocco's, and Honda civic's, crx's, and accords. $5 was all night fun. Cost me $50.00 in gas to drive 45 min. to lake for the truck and trikes, that's cheap fun (?), lol. I can't afford a newer car and even if I could muster it wouldn't. And I am not trendy. A MX hemet made this year and a $150 more than last year is not $150 more worth it (better). I don't fall for the 'newer is better' quality crap.

[Bretmd94]

This poor country. Our cars are junk. Anything imported is junk. One of my mechanic buddy says any car in Europe will last longer than here. Way higher octane and cleaner gas. We get greedy oil companies who don't refine it all the way. A few great cars slipped thought in the 90's though. I have a Dodge Intrepid. 29 mpg and all the power you can ask of it. It's fast too. And I will be on 190,000 soon. But I remember cruzing the drag in high school. Toyota 4x4 pickups, VW scirocco's, and Honda civic's, crx's, and accords. $5 was all night fun. Cost me $50.00 in gas to drive 45 min. to lake for the truck and trikes, that's cheap fun (?), lol. I can't afford a newer car and even if I could muster it wouldn't. And I am not trendy. A MX hemet made this year and a $150 more than last year is not $150 more worth it (better). I don't fall for the 'newer is better' quality crap.

The quality has gone down in a lot of situations. I am in the plumbing industry and the fittings (mainly copper and brass) have gone way up in price and the quality is nothing like the old fittings.

The cars were built much stronger before. Made to last and with parts easy to replace. It seems like today you buy it, drive it, and throw it away.

[NINJA]

This is my favorite thread on 3WW right now. I'm glad there are other people out there who can see through this fog of bullshit!

[AutoXer]

I had a 85 honda accord that would always get 35mpg ..... I go back to that quite often and even asked a dealer what he thought the reason might be that today's civic can't get that highway say nothing about true everyday driving and he said that the cars back then didn't have abs, air bags and all the other stuff that our loving gov't demands to keep us safe and able to pay there high taxes .... I call BS on that for the simple reason that I could have two ppl with me and still get that same 35mpg (crumple zones, air bags and abs can't add 300 lbs to a car can they?) Then there was the 94 mustang that my mom bought new and got 30's with that car. 6cyl manual and all the goodies .... rear wheel drive beating fron't wheel drive? fancy that. What are we doing to ourselves? We are given a "smart car" 40-50mpg??? really ??? for a car that can barely haul 2 ppl?? no thank you ... guess the harley (again the old carb model I had got 50 mpg) will get driven @ 45mpg. Or better yet the 1983 XL600R!!! lol

[Mr_RPM]

Maybe they don't wanting us using less oil, they hype up the hybrid stuff to make the environmentals happy while we still burn gas at the same rate we have been.
The global warming fad made alot of people want to change their ways but the oil companies could not let that happen, so they give us an Illusion of going green but are actually not. lol
...I know, conspiracies....but still It doesn't hurt to think around.

[NINJA]

That's right kid, it's better to be well informed than ill informed.

[Slingblade]

It all boils down to one thing- MONEY. The Fed. Govt. can set mandates and cry save the environment all they want, but they can't come up with a way to replace that 18 cents they collect with every ding at the pump. Then states charge at least that much on top. There's no telling how much $ California knocks down in gas taxes. You think they can afford to take a cut right now, with a bazzilion dollar deficit. They haven't figured out how to afford to go green. And I think about this everytime I see one of those Smart Cars on the interstate between 2 semis, My road car is an 01 Grand Marquis, V-8, full frame, rear wheel drive and gets 25-26 mpg on the Highway. By comparison that roller skate should get about 75, but NO- about 40 mpg. Are you freakin kiddin me?

[andrew j hyman]

I agree with both statements here.

as for Diesel cars being brought over here, I think alot of people would go for it, sad thing is "good" MPG cars are sort of a fashion statement in some parts (not mine :lol:) such as why the prius became so popular because it was advertised and thought to be "the best".
If companies started advertising diesel cars as the new "Best" car for the environment they would be bought right up.
Get a few famous tree huggers to endorse in them and before ya know it California makes it their State car. :lol:

Basically anything can be sold to America with the right propaganda. I think if all of those efficient Euro cars were brought over here and were "hyped up" people would jump all over it.

NINJA, I could not agree more!!!
also, the manufacturing of these hybrids are very bad for the environment. BBC's Top Gear once said the Manufacturing of the Prius was so inefficient and the aftermath of the prius with it's battery debris would cause more environmental damage then it would have saved...dont quote me on that, ill look for a video or something.



FOUND IT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTOyiKLARk Clean burning Deisel is the way to go. My first truck was a VW truck 1982 it got 40-50 mpg . Most cars over seas are diesel ! Ford has a diesel now over seas that get 60mpg But will not bring it to usa . Even Honda has a diesel

[HuffieVA]

Most of the diesels overseas don't comply with our ridiculous EPA rules yet which is keeping them on the other side of the pond. I'm not sure I understand how this whole clean air movement has improved anything overall over the past 40 years...

When I was a kid we had leaded gas, leaded paint, lawn darts, bottle rockets, M80's, the occasional fist fight in High School and the drinking age was just a suggestion... only thing we didn't have was ADD, ADHD and X-Box 360's, school shootings or "economy" cars that cost $40,000

I don't want to cry conspiracy, but we may want to rethink this whole idea...

[cattle-dog]

i am with sling blade on the fullsize cars, i had a 93 buick roadmaster 4 door with the 350 police engine and that car was loaded and still could get 25 mpg and up think 27 was my best and that buick had 150,000 miles on it !! a 4000 lb car or more!!!
you can bet its our oil companies controling what cars we get to have , i drive all diesal trucks and the mileage the american trucks are getting is nothing compared to over seas.

[TommyBoy1971]

well you would think that if the CR-x got that good of gas mpg's back then, it would at least be doubled or tripled by now with technology. I am sure all that tech is monitored and regulated to keep prices up plain and simple. Think how much money some of the oil countries would have lost if this was the case with our technology...We cant have our enemies going broke now can we? You know, I don't even remember having to worry about paying for gas back in the 80's, and I was paying rent while finishing school.

[andrew j hyman]

Most of the diesels overseas don't comply with our ridiculous EPA rules yet which is keeping them on the other side of the pond. I'm not sure I understand how this whole clean air movement has improved anything overall over the past 40 years...

When I was a kid we had leaded gas, leaded paint, lawn darts, bottle rockets, M80's, the occasional fist fight in High School and the drinking age was just a suggestion... only thing we didn't have was ADD, ADHD and X-Box 360's, school shootings or "economy" cars that cost $40,000

I don't want to cry conspiracy, but we may want to rethink this whole idea... Some of the do comply like 2011 FIESTA diesel vw tdi, alos Green car of the year Audi A3 TDI, Just Crazy Ford fiesta diesel get 62.5 mpg Man would love to have one. Now ford needs to have f150 diesel .

[dcreel]

The only CRX that got that kind of mileage was the HF model. It was extremely light, and put out about 62 hp. The CRX SI was fast for the time. It had better brakes, a bigger motr with VTEC. But certainly didn't get that kind of mileage although it's mileage was good. What the CRX had going for it was a low drag, it was seriously slippery in the wind. The comparison in shape between the crx and the late model hybrids is there. The amazing thing is there is a group of people out there who do all kinds of aerodynamic work to their cars to achieve more mpg. Hypermilers or something like that who have seen 60 to 70 mpg with changing the aero and driving habits of themselves.

The wife and I own a 95 Civic LX, and an 07 Honda Fit Sport and they both get right around the same mpg. I would love to own the new Honda CR-Z. I would love to have a hybrid with a 6 speed that is sporty. But I would also love to drop the 200 hp motor and 6 speed trans out of an Acura RSX type S into my 100 hp Honda Fit. It would probably run a high 13 second quarter mile and still give 30 mpg if driven smoothly. They even sell the motor mount kit.

Found an article on the 09 Prius VS the 89 CRX HF

http://www.ridelust.com/mpg-wars-1989-honda-crx-hf-vs-2009-toyota-prius/

And Volkswagen has been selling diesel and turbo diesel cars for a long time. Their TDI engine's are very good at conserving fuel, and when built can run fast as well.

[Slingblade]

I'm with cattle dog on the oil companies. I'm convinced there is a river of dirty money flowing from the oil execs to make sure the crude continues to line pockets with billions. I'm truly ignorant on some things so could someone please help- Who sets the price of oil? I realize it's supply and demand and such, but somebody, somewhere has to set that price. When the price of oil peaked a few years back Exxon mobil was netting profits of like 12 Billion per Quarter. 12 Billion in 3 months? I can't wrap my mind around that. And don't even get me started on T. Boone Pickens. When oil was that high he was trying to get investment for his "wind" project. The comercial should have said: "I'm T. Boone Pickens, Would all you Americans standing in the oil line please stand up straight and pull your pants up, move to the line that says WIND, place your pants at your ankles and bend over again, I'm T. Boone Pickens and I want to save America."

rant over

[oldskool83]

my 04 civic has been giving me average of 35mpg since i got it new. i travel 25 miles 1 way to work, i used about 8 gallons a week...u do the math.

ok ill do it...thats 37.5 give or take a few lets say 35mpg...most of thats got some redlights too...i dont want no hybrid stuff.

but i see your point RPM...if carb sin the 80s were getting that why isnt my honda getting say 40-50mpg

[300rman]

I'm with cattle dog on the oil companies. I'm convinced there is a river of dirty money flowing from the oil execs to make sure the crude continues to line pockets with billions. I'm truly ignorant on some things so could someone please help- Who sets the price of oil? I realize it's supply and demand and such, but somebody, somewhere has to set that price. When the price of oil peaked a few years back Exxon mobil was netting profits of like 12 Billion per Quarter. 12 Billion in 3 months? I can't wrap my mind around that. And don't even get me started on T. Boone Pickens. When oil was that high he was trying to get investment for his "wind" project. The comercial should have said: "I'm T. Boone Pickens, Would all you Americans standing in the oil line please stand up straight and pull your pants up, move to the line that says WIND, place your pants at your ankles and bend over again, I'm T. Boone Pickens and I want to save America."

rant over


i remember watching a video on who sets oil prices......you know they still only pay 35-40$ a barrel to iraq? the rest of that inflated price goes straight into the pockets of the oil companies......

[RDH/86200X]

my great grandma dorve a 1966 chysler new yorker that had a 383 big block and the push botton automatic and that car got 21-22 mpg with out waver. that car weighed 3 tons and had enough power to smoke the tires at 30mph. imo if a 3ton car with a big block and a 4 barrel carb can get that mpg then shouldnt a car that weighs 1/3 the weight get 3 times the mpg. and thats not including the rate at which technology advances.

[Chazz of Blades]

98 Honda Civic with 155,000 miles on it, gest around 35 mpg.


Hell, 94 GMC Sierra Diesel turbo with a 6.5L gets about 23. And it's got 280,000 miles on it and running strong.

[300rman]

MPG's are a conspiracy.....Want proof?? just try to import one of those European 70+MPG sedans into the country.......even though FORD or GM makes them......

[93cr250]

has anyone seen the Honda Clarity...that is the type of car we will be using in 30 years, not the stupid hybrids that are still getting power from power plants, this car uses hydrogen that we will never run out of because its the most abundant element in the universe, releases water as waste, and just gets filled up at a gas station instead of needing 4 hours to charge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AUurBnLbJw

[buck]

Gong green and all this full mileage crap they are pushing down our throats is a big joke to me. I don't know one single person in my life whether they be a friend or customer that has any practical use for those vehicles. Here in the "real" world, we use vehicles that tow, have 4x4, and have room for a minimum of 5 full grown adults if not more. It baffles me how the majority of car buyers today can get by without a truck or full size SUV. My minimum requirements to get by in life are, 3/4 ton, 4x4, and crew cab. Diesel is nice to have too. How can one function in life with a 2 dr accord as their only means of transportation?

If a vehicle got 200 MPG and was free it's still no good to me if you can't do anything but drive it from point A to point B.

Buck

[300rman]

Gong green and all this full mileage crap they are pushing down our throats is a big joke to me. I don't know one single person in my life whether they be a friend or customer that has any practical use for those vehicles. Here in the "real" world, we use vehicles that tow, have 4x4, and have room for a minimum of 5 full grown adults if not more. It baffles me how the majority of car buyers today can get by without a truck or full size SUV. My minimum requirements to get by in life are, 3/4 ton, 4x4, and crew cab. Diesel is nice to have too. How can one function in life with a 2 dr accord as their only means of transportation?

If a vehicle got 200 MPG and was free it's still no good to me if you can't do anything but drive it from point A to point B.

Buck

a lot of people are zombies created by "the man" and dont do anything exciting, dont haul things around, and certainly dont harm the environment my moving dirt around.

[Mr_RPM]

yeah, my mother does not need anything but transportation and storage for some groceries. and every old lady out there.

[buck]

a lot of people are zombies created by "the man" and dont do anything exciting, dont haul things around, and certainly dont harm the environment my moving dirt around.

Sucks to be them. I couldn't stand the thought of going through life like that.

Buck

[andrew j hyman]

Gong green and all this full mileage crap they are pushing down our throats is a big joke to me. I don't know one single person in my life whether they be a friend or customer that has any practical use for those vehicles. Here in the "real" world, we use vehicles that tow, have 4x4, and have room for a minimum of 5 full grown adults if not more. It baffles me how the majority of car buyers today can get by without a truck or full size SUV. My minimum requirements to get by in life are, 3/4 ton, 4x4, and crew cab. Diesel is nice to have too. How can one function in life with a 2 dr accord as their only means of transportation?

If a vehicle got 200 MPG and was free it's still no good to me if you can't do anything but drive it from point A to point B.

Buck Going green is not too bad My wife has a GL320 CDI Holds 7 people Get 27 on the highway UMM too bad . Diesel is the way to go.

[buck]

Going green is not too bad My wife has a GL320 CDI Holds 7 people Get 27 on the highway UMM too bad . Diesel is the way to go.

That sounds a little more realistic to me. Herein lies my problem. Does it tow a minimum of 14k and is it four wheel drive?

I do like the sounds of that vehicle for the record.

Buck

[SeaBass8]

Buck? Im not getting your point... Are you saying everyone should drive the same type vehicle that fits your needs?

[andrew j hyman]

That sounds a little more realistic to me. Herein lies my problem. Does it tow a minimum of 14k and is it four wheel drive?

I do like the sounds of that vehicle for the record.

Buck
I do like the sounds of that vehicle for the record. truck is AWD and towing is Towing Capacity(5)7,500 lb (Class IV But F350 Diesel ford is geting about 20-24 mpg on highway . What i hope now ford will make a F150 diesel ?? My friend has a VW TDI they get 45 mpg High way . So the point is Diesel is Green and get great MPG Only if we could get more Car- Truck Co. to make them

[Macs]

Keep in mind that the quality of our fuel has been in a steep decline for the last 30 years. Your fuel in mainly additives and corn now. This has stated a huge impact on gas mileage. Also add to that the weight of newer cars versus older cars. I was new car shopping the other day and was looking at the weights, i was really surprised that a compact car weighes almost 5000 pounds! I bet 1000 pounds of that is wiring alone. It is getting really ridiculous. My first pickup was only 2800 lbs.

[Chazz of Blades]

Look at the old 280z's.


Would do 130MPH(or more), 2.8l inline 6 cylinder, two seater coupe, would get 30+ MPG, and looks sexy doing it.

[buck]

Buck? Im not getting your point... Are you saying everyone should drive the same type vehicle that fits your needs?

No sir I am not. My point is this...

The tree huggers and naturalists seem to think that we should ALL own vehicles that fit their needs. Their needs are mirrored by a VERY small portion of the population. I would guess well less than 10% if not less. These vehicles serve no purpose for the average driver in the real world.

My needs may be a little stringent by some people's standards, but I can assure for a fact that 80% of the people I know need at least a 1/2 ton truck that's crew cab and has 4x4. That would be a little more real world in my book. Take a look around the midwest sometime, it's trucks country. We do not have the ability to function on a daily basis with vehicles like this. When I say "we" I'm speaking for several million truck owners in the US.

I know this to be true simply by the fact that I make my living in the truck market. Consumers are buying more and more trucks every year. That's saying something about their needs.

I think it's great that a large portion of the people in over regulated California think these things are the greatest thing ever. Fortunately for them the American car buyer doesn't let California dictate their needs.

Buck

[Chazz of Blades]

To each his own I guess. We need an advancement that will be in terms of the gasoline internal combustion motor.

By that, I mean a motor that runs better fuel(ala steam to gasoline when the ICM came out), but is still adaptable to different vehicles and uses (cars vs. trucks) using the same fuels.