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View Full Version : 1st gen 200X oil cooler install...UPDATE PART III ..Done!!



ironchop
04-10-2011, 09:05 PM
So when pondering the most recent of my 200X topend rebuilds, and having completed a fair share of XR motors, I remain stumped as to why Honda would have designed such a miserable method of camshaft mounting....the steel bushing in the rear of the cam heats up, seizes, and can destroy the cam should the flow of oil be restricted or the viscosity break down over time.

Same holds true for the forward cam journal in the head and rocker cover....I`ve seen a fair amount of those journals scored and smeared making the "journal", and thus, the whole head useless unless you want to drop $350 on a Megacycle full needle cam bearing kit...After spending alot of time smoothing intake and exhaust runners, it occured to me how precarious the oiling situation can be and that I may very well accidently cook the bearings and journals thus wasting not only my good head but all the time I had working on it as well.

the full bearing Megacycle kit would only be an option for me should I have built a stroker 200....I would rather spend that kind of money on a more powerful machine with a little better resale value like a 250 2 stroke. Megacycle kit or not, I would be running an oil cooler for this flat-track setup to ensure I`m not killing the top and bottom end both with overheated oil from running high rpms.

There are some other threads in here I think from Howdy about this job but I couldn`t get a good link to them from the search so I decided to shoot a query to Mickey Dunlap on another thread (like the shameless thread hijacker I am) to make sure I was tapping into the best possible place to brach off the feed lines for the cooler.

First, I placed the clutch cover in the Mill and located the center of the little plug in the front of the clutch cover that is installed on every 200X and XR where the factory drilled out the oil plumbing system....this can be carefully achieved w/o a mill but since i had one at my disposal, I used a mill.....I found center of the plug (looks like an "O" 1/8" in diameter on the flat in the front of the cover, center-drilled it, then drilled thru with an "R" drill (can also use an 11/32) checking every .050 or so deep to make sure I drilled down only far enough to just pass the bottom of the oil galley where it shoots off to the right toward the motor. This ensures that you have as free a flow as possible as any added restriction will boost the pressure but on the other hand, lower the volume....higher the pressure, the slower the oil moves thru the motor making it heat up more....a higher volume of cooler, cleaner oil is preferred.

after this step, I shifted along that flat pad on the cover over about 1.250 (1 1/4") and drilled another hole making sure to stay inline with the first hole which would be a perpendicular line to the gasket surface on the cover....Again, I stopped drilling every so often to check the hole depth as you want a clean break-thru into that galley (feed) while being VERY careful not to drill too far or thru the cover completely.

Next, I backed up to the area between my two holes to the center of the distance between the two which would be .625 (5/8) from either hole on each side and drilled a new hole with a 27/64....this will be for the socket-head set screw I will use to block the passage between the two other holes thus forcing the oil to leave the pump, enter the cover, go to the cooler via the first fitting, and return to the cover from the cooler via the second fitting with the set screw keeping the two seperate.....This hole, I opted to drill all the way thru the cover. I did so because it would have been very difficult not to break thru the inside while trying to get the bit deep enough to tap for the set screw to be able to COMPLETEY block off all chances of oil getting by...all it takes is a pinhole for oil to pass thru and your cooler will not be 100% effective.

the two outer holes were then tapped 1/8-27 NPTF (tapered for pipe...fine thread) in order to facilitate installing the two brass elbow fittings I picked up from the hardware store. I used elbows (or 90s) as i didn`t want a long fitting jutting out of the fron of the cover making it much easier to snap off should something get by your frontend and hit the front of the clutch cover. I am making a guard to mount to the RH motor mount front plate for further protection.....more on that later....when taping for pipe thread fittings, you have to tap a little and then maock install the fitting to make sure you tap deep enouigh to get a good seat for the fittings...most NPT taps I have, I run down to about 3/4 of the cutting edges of the tap in the hole before I start checking as it`s a good starting point. When using elbow fittings, you have to be more attentive as the fittings will need to "clock" correctly to where you want to run the line out to the cooler. In other words, you don`t want the fittings facing down or to the outside of the machine when tightened so you have more of a straight shot to the cooler....the shorter the cooler line , the better IMO.

The center hole was then tapped all the way thru for 1/2-13 standard thread. I installed the set screw to the correct depth where the screw (or plug) would completely cover the entire galley passage. I used 1/2-13 since you want the widest plug you can get as the galley passage is not right in the middle of the pad. Mine was shifted about .100 to one side of the holes I drilled. Since you can`t see the passage until you drilled a hole, it`s critical to use a big set screw or plug in order to get the full effect of blockage should the hole be a little off center of the passage.

I installed the 1/2-13 set screw using hi-strength Red Loctite allowing it to set a week before moving forward. NOTE: Take care with the Loctite as you need to keep any excess from running into the oil passage and gumming up the works or sealing off the passage elsewhere....I sprayed out either side of the passage with carb cleaner and used pipe cleaners (q-tips leave fibers in the holes too easy) to clean EVERY last bit of thread locker out of where it wasn`t supposed to be. I then mixed up some JB FastWeld epoxy and filled the leftover holes on either side of the set screw with the stuff making sure to work it down into the socket head and threads to ensure a good grip for the epoxy...on the inside of the cover, I hit around the hole with some 80 grit to rough it up for better grip as well. You don`t want it coming loose inside the engine at some point. I used a set screw that when placed, would give me about 1/4 inch on the inside and outside of the cover to fill with epoxy again, to ensure a solid grip on the cover.


Again....this project isn`t complete as of yet, so the thread will be added to as I get more done to show y`all what the rest of the project entailed. Stay tuned for more.

Disclaimer: this is only how I did my install and my methods. There may be better ways/methods out there to achieve the same thing. This is only intended as a "how I did it" thread.

Enjoy

ironchop
04-10-2011, 09:35 PM
pics of the elbow fittings...

Scootertrash
04-10-2011, 11:12 PM
Impressive mod Ironchop. Tagged for future goodness!!

Crash5291
04-11-2011, 12:30 AM
can this mod be done to a regular 200? or does the oil use a different passage?

ironchop
04-11-2011, 08:23 PM
can this mod be done to a regular 200? or does the oil use a different passage?

I`m not sure...you`ll have to look in the manual and see if that cover is setup the same way as the X or take it off and look

leevarnado
04-11-2011, 08:50 PM
you can use this mod on most if not all 3 wheelers.

atc500x
04-11-2011, 09:56 PM
Exactly the same setup as my 200x

tri-Z ripper
04-12-2011, 09:55 PM
Very nice Job! I'm sure even DC would agree

ironchop
04-13-2011, 10:39 PM
Very nice Job! I'm sure even DC would agree

thanks but it`s not done just yet....more trickness to come

and then I`m THRU!!!!

ATC200X= the most expensive way to go SLOW....it`s been fun but I`m still not happy with the power and i`m sure I never will be.

Next build I hope to be doing a Tecate (1st choice) Honda 250R, or Tri-Z....seems a bit more worth the trouble to make alot of modification and empty your wallet in the process

austinmation
05-05-2011, 12:52 PM
This is probably the only write up in details I could find.

I also wished to do the same mod on a Thai made cruiser that is based on the XLR200 engine.
I need some help and here are my questions:

1) How much additional engine oil is needed if you add a pit bike oil cooler?
2) Will there be any oil starvation?; Especially when you start the bike to prime the oil cooler to draw oil in.
3) Is it better to mount the oil cooler whereby the oil lines will run in and out of the oil cooler from the top? (This is pertaining to 2nd qn)

Thanks!

ironchop
08-14-2011, 09:36 AM
ok so I got a 350X cooler and trimmed off one of the mounting tabs.......shortened the input/output lines....soldered on some barbed fittings for the short rubber sections I`ll need to make

ironchop
08-14-2011, 09:40 AM
here`s pics of the homemeade frame mounts I cobbled together with some scrap laying around my shop...nothing special except I would suggest using backing washers with rivets on that sheetmetal area of the frame

placement of the cooler is key....too high above motor and gravity interferes with your flow a bit and you also have to keep in mind clearances and whatnot (I used another of our X`s with a motor in it to make sure my cooler and lines cleared....I did have to heat and bend the lines a bit with a propane torch to get the right clearances

I would also point out it is CRUCIAL to drill the rear of the fender for more flow and try and mount with as little obstruction as possible to the airflow.....I will fab up another rock guard later but since this machine is setup for TT/flattrack, large debris should not be an issue

ironchop
08-14-2011, 09:46 AM
another thing that is critical is wether or not the cooler will have ample clearance for the forks/triples in full lockup

I put my cooler on the left side of the frame to keep it away from the exhaust heat as much as possible....my supertrapp header is heavily wrapped as well to help this issue

photo of full left lockup....you will need superscoops to clear the cooler and it hides nicely behind them

ironchop
08-14-2011, 09:52 AM
I tried to cliffnote the process a bit....keep in mind I had several adjustments to make as I went and it didn`t just bolt up without some heavy thinking and planning...

Updates to come as I get the motor back in the frame and the cooler plumbed to the right clutch cover

I am wondering if I`ll need a check ball inline somewhere to prevent to oil from emptying all back down in the motor once the pump stops moving....does anyone know if this was an issue with the 350X?

ironchop
08-14-2011, 02:21 PM
Shortline Mike.....DC......Veal......anyone know about wether the oil will mdrain out of the cooler and back into the crankcase when its shut off?

this could be an issue as it would increase the time it took to prime oil to fill the cooler and then crank and topend when first starting

shortline10
08-15-2011, 07:29 AM
I dont think you will have an issue with oil draining back but on first start up try not to rev it up for the first few seconds just to be sure . Theirs always oil in the cam valley so the head is no issue for oil loss .

ironchop
08-16-2011, 01:09 PM
thanks mike....It had occurred to me just then ....I used to build HDs and Triumphs that had isolated oil resevoir systems and sometimes they would sump when sitting and fill the crankcase with oil if the check balls inside the oil pump didn`t seat correctly or at all, then you get a half quart of oil blow out the vent on startup due to the cases being overfull.....i wasnt sure if the honda oil pumps had check balls to keep the flow one way

austinmation
08-18-2011, 12:40 AM
Ironchop, excellent work!

I am also skeptical whether the oil will flow back and level with the engine and had thoughts that the oil can hold up because the oil pump can block it up somehow, but I am wrong.

The Suzuki DR650 shares the same mounting like your set up, with the oil being pumped up entering from the bottom of the oil cooler, and out from the top of the cooler and into the header. The oil does flow back to the crank when the engine is cut off, when I pressed the oil hose to find it hollow. I believe the DR650 may have some scavenge left in the head and need not worry about cranking.

In your (our) case, maybe you can route the oil line from top-in to bottom-out, if pressure proves not an issue. Then, at the bottom-out, route the line upwards so each time you stop the engine, so the oil will maintain inside the cooler. When you wish to fully flush out the cooler's oil, you can simply release the routing down or unplug the hose if you don't mind the mess.

This is just my thoughts, and kindly correct me if they are wrong.


I am thinking of adding this in-line oil filter can be useful with the oil cooler http://tboltusa.com/store/trc-inline-oil-filter-p-930.html

ironchop
08-26-2011, 12:54 PM
That inline filter is a good idea...I`m gonna look into that

the galley built into the head will keep the cam lobes lubed when you turn the motor over but it`s the journals I`m worried about going dry and they are what usually fails on the cam/head....I might install a small primer pump....thought of just pulling the plugwire to kick it thru w/o spark to prime the oil system first, then push on the wire and start but it would be hard not to overload the cylinder with fuel vapor before applying the spark...check ball valve inline is probably the best solution if this proves to be an issue

I figure after I get it hooked up, running, and properly filled with oil, I can shut it off and let it sit a couple days or so and then check the crankcase level again and if it is significantly higher, I`ll know it sumped when it sat

ironchop
09-01-2011, 01:07 PM
got it finished.....pics coming

cooler mounted fully after mockup....


130966

130967

ironchop
09-01-2011, 01:08 PM
motor installed.....time to plumb the cooler


130968

130969

ironchop
09-01-2011, 01:11 PM
130970

130971

ironchop
09-01-2011, 01:12 PM
130972

130973

ironchop
09-01-2011, 01:14 PM
last two....needs hose clamps but thats it....you get the picture

Im gonna add some clamps for the copper hardlines to keep them still and also rebend the lower outlet from the cooler to get it more inline tucked into the frame tube

tyler540
09-02-2011, 08:20 AM
i dont think you guys have to worry about the oil draining back. i have been running a very similiar setup on my warrior for 3 years and havent had an issue. think of a straw when you hold you finger over the the end and pull it out of a liquid.