View Full Version : trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro Ebay Theives
had two things for sale for 30.00 combined. fees should have been 1.90 for both. 2 weeks later, today I got a auto deduction from ebay for 31.20 +35.00 for the NSF of the un-authorized payment, and another invoice for 30.55 supposed to come out on friday. 90+ dollars for 30.00 in sales? I disputed through paypal, but it appears ebay can do this and we can't stop them....anyone else had issues like this selling things on ebay? Please keep in mind I have only ever sold 2 things on ebay which were recent.
HuffieVA
05-04-2011, 02:37 PM
Sounds like there is more to it than that, did the buyer file a grievance through paypal?
no it was based off of seller fees. I am actually on the phone with them again right now. They have hung up on me twice. And I called my bank to request a return payment from them for the 35.00 NSF fee, as well as the 31.20 they charged me for 2 items totalling 30.55.
both buyers of both items are very happy with items and have left great feedback.
HuffieVA
05-04-2011, 02:58 PM
What are the charges listed as on your ebay invoice? It should be broken down per item
im being charged twice for the same thing for the first listings total was supposed to be 1.80 for both items. "picture fee : $3.55" for each, each line is listed twice, unauthorized withdrawal from my account.
im still on the phone with them. I have asked for a supervisor repeatedly for the past 45 minutes or so, they just keep putting me on hold. I have given my bank the okay to request a refund from them and whatever else they wish to do. Just because you put your debit card on my table does not give me legal right to start using it. They had no authorization at all, checked with paypal too, to withdraw funds, it is illegal. I have had my fill of ebay.
my ebay feedback is 100% has been since I began on ebay 5 years ago. Never one issue EVER. now this. not happy. and STILL on hold after 53 minutes, apparently they had to go out and hire some kind of supervisor, cause i have been waiting long enough for them to give an orientation and 2 full interviews to one..lol
Ironbnder
05-04-2011, 03:50 PM
I am lost on this one. As HuffieVA said, it sounds like they tried to take back the money you where paid and it was not enough in your bank to cover it, therfor the additional fee. This would only happen after a grievance process and you were found in the wrong. This is a great thing to protect buyers, but it may have been wrongly applied to you in this case. Remember to stay calm when dealing with them. Being mad at the customer sevice rep and demanding things will get you hung up on. If you are in the right, I am sure you will be credited back your money.
Midnite_rider
05-04-2011, 04:08 PM
My God... E-bay owns Paypal now too. So they are actually making money on both ends of the stick. My wife has been using Ebay since its beginning years ago. It was cool then, but it gets crappier and crappier as the days go by. I don't fool with them. I buy a small amount of stuff there, but it's usually something that I cannot get anywhere else. You really can't save any money there any more. If you get a good price they rape you on the shipping. I bought some 200M fender supports a few months ago. I paid 6 bucks for them..... but I payed 16 bucks shipping.(they came in a large envelope) All in all a decent price, but what a lie about the shipping.
no greivance filed. It wasn't a buyer, it was flea-bay itself. they illegally took money from my checking account. No hacker, no pissed buyer or seller, not paypal fees, just ebay itself. they REFUSE to let me talk to a supervisor. going on 2 hours on hold. I have given the bank the okay to go after them, and being a NYS business which is my business account they removed funds from illegally, I will have attorney contact them on this also. this is bullshit and ILLEGAL. its quite simply stealing.
HuffieVA
05-04-2011, 04:51 PM
You're going to hire an attorney when a $30 charge back overdrew your account? .. just asking...
Your aren't going to get to the bottom of it by stomping your feet and pulling your hair...
#1 You gave them your credit/debit/checking info when you opened your account therefore if there is a billing mistake it is not illegal unless they refuse to fix it once YOU show proof
#2 If your eBay statement does not show the $30 fee its possible it was a chargeback from PayPal (which is owned by eBay)
#3 if you listed 2 items you have listing fees, if your items sold you have final value fees and if you paid through PayPal you have PayPal fees on average they end up being 10 - 15% of your sale price (the higher the amount goes the lower the percentage gets)
#4 Your best bet is to calm down, and get all your information together enough so you actually have some idea what happened before you call them, they likely take 100's/1000's of calls a day and the only way they can begin to understand what your complaint is is by the information you provide to them, if you trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro and scream at them they will simply hang up or put you on hold for say two hours
#5 If you got a chargeback through PayPal it will show on your PayPal acct
#6 If you made a purchace with your PayPal card and you have a zero balance it will come out of your checking acct
#7 If your wife/girlfriend bought new batteries and used your PayPal acct and you have a zero balance it will come out of your checking acct.
the list goes on, but if there is a charge to your checking acct, the bank can tell you who received the funds, start there, check your eBay invoices and PayPal acct to see if you can find something that matches up, you'll eventually figure out what happened and then call them once you know whats actually going on...
But hiring a lawyer at $100 plus an hour over $30 that you dont really know what happened to is a little uncalled for at this point dont ya think?
final solution so far:
on ebay account : invoice request for fee only, not automatic (they did it anyways without my consent)
total seller fees: $1.80 (charged 31.20 for april + 30.55 for march) for 2 items totalling 30.00 and got hit with a overdraft of 35.00 because of this.
Resolve: closed bank account and cancelled debit card, filed dispute through paypal, contacted attorney and T.V.C.U. (my bank) to go after ebay.
Ebay states: "all fees incurred are for seller fees." (Fee Policy states for auction format, if it doesn't sell = no fees, no re-listing fee, no fee if single category.) "Ebay is authorized to automatically deduct using your paypal account for all fees required" (checked my ebay account, it is INVOICE ONLY)
Asked for a supervisor yet again.
eBay reply:" let me see if I can find one for you"
1hour and 15 minutes (on hold) later they disconnected on me.
I called back again, immediately asked for a supervisor 45 minutes on hold and d/c'd me again.
Called the bank to file a claim, and paypal also. They suggested calling ebay again and trying to get a supervisor. After 5 times of trying to get one, I am just simply pissed from being hung up on.
its not the money, its the point of literally stealing 90+ dollars from my pocket.
The original $1.80 in fees was paid on April 1st by me.
Huffie,
My paypal account is a business merchant account, I have no paypal fees to tend to.
1.The 31.20 was a charge that was removed from my account without authorization, and made my account go NSF due to I only keep the funds in a savings acount and transfer to the checking when needed.
2.My wife is the accountant at my bank.
3.Paypal has no fault in ebay's actions here, though owned by the same entity.
4. if you put your credit card on my table and go in the other room does that make it okay for me to remove money from it for no reason?
5. My listings were auction format only, total fees $1.80, already paid them in full.
6. pulling hair, no, pissed that someone took money out of my pocket without my okay...heck yes.
7. hiring a lawyer to get a return on 31.20 illegally taken +35.00 for overdraft + 30.55 that apparently 2 15.00 items are due which still falls into the same category of already paid the fee for both items in full, listed only the first time, not relisted.
31.20 + 35.00 + 30.55 = $96.75 that was basically stolen from me.
is it worth it to spend the $150.00 per hour to have an attorney draft a doc against ebay...yes it is. It is fraud, and illegal, whether it's ebay, or some small time conartist/scammer. If those like me didn't stand up for this crap, they would do it to far more people far more often for far more money. BTW, this was a NYS business bank account, not a personal one.
Ironbnder
05-04-2011, 05:22 PM
E-bay has a cuzillion dollars worth of attorneys at there disposal and can tie you up in court forever. Your drafted doc is nothing to them. You cancelling your bank account now has just cost you lots of time and effort to return to normal. E-bay is not in the buisness to steal $90 from unexpecting people. As stated above, calm down, figure out what really happened and call back a service rep and discuss it with her, thanking her for her time and you will get different results. Stop demanding a supervisor.
wasnt demanding, wasn't rude, wasn't snotty, and i politely asked for a supervisor to no avail. Whether they have 200,000 state of art attorney's, its still larceny period. I have spoke with 5 ebay reps, and 3 paypal reps. Paypal has been very helpful in this, ebay, no so much. Katie from paypal in the dispute center told me that having the banks attorney contact them at ebay would be the best option. As far as "E-bay is not in the buisness to steal $90 from unexpecting people" it was 31.20 + 30.55 and a nsf fee because of unauthorized deductions from my account totalling 96.75
after dinner i intend to try once again to reach a supervisor, but at this point of what I have dealt with them all day so far, I highly doubt to get anywhere.
april invoice shows -31.20 (what they took this morning) and 30.55 for May's Invoice which they took this afternoon.
http://250xfiles.webs.com/ebay/ebay1.jpg
the total items and value of what I sold.
http://250xfiles.webs.com/ebay/ebay2.jpg
Paypal dispute email escaladed against Ebay.
http://250xfiles.webs.com/ebay/ebay3.jpg
this shows the entire story line. the other dispute for 30.55 I am waiting on the confirmation email yet but will post it once it comes in.
as for pay pal's transactions, let me get them for you too. (sorry about the pic quality, i took them from my phone which you can see the screen lines that shows they have not been altered.)
hang&rattle
05-04-2011, 06:17 PM
I understand 250x. I went throught the same b.s. with a scam company called dishnetwork. They messed up so bad and actually took over $500 out of my account through my credit card. I had an attorney send a letter, and then another, and then another with paper work for a summonds. It took 9 months to clear it up. Finally a lady called me and offered to credit part of the $, I said no. Then we put a sum of damages for $15,000. They called back to return the $500 to my account. I said no, I wanted the bank charges etc., etc.. The called and said they'd give me 1 year free service of some package and the $500. I told them: "Ya, F*ck you, after your sh!tty service you think I want your b.s.?, I'll drop the court summons and take the $15,000, how's that?" They called back, paid the fees and whatnot I wanted, and credited me the $500+ back. They also have to pay the attorney's fee's. It was only $500 or so dollars, but since noone was smart or qualified enought to take care of the situation, it ended up costing dish network a pile of cash, which makes me grin from ear to ear, so I understand, it's the principle of it all, the gov't rules and laws protect the big companies, but not the little man (consumer).
thats precisely this situation Hang, its the principal behind it, not the dollar ammount.
Xpress
05-04-2011, 06:34 PM
If you're on hold for more than 2 minutes, they're not picking the phone up again. Hang up and call back. If you bug them enough, they'll eventually have to listen.
HuffieVA
05-04-2011, 06:34 PM
Obviously your upset, but you aren't going to get someone to help you by claiming larceny when that isn't necessarily the case...
Couple questions:
Did you open an "eBay store" when you listed your items? (Because they have a fee for that whether or not you list items until you close the store)
Did you request a detailed invoice from eBay? from the picture above it looks as you may have just looked at the total
When you used your credit card to open your eBay acct you gave them permission to charge their fees to your card (read the eBay agreement) so its not the same as me leaving my card on your table and you using it (or vise versa)
I'm trying to help ya here, like I said before, get all the info and a full understanding of it before you call, also FYI eBay likely has something in their user agreement that disputes must be arbitrated in their jurisdiction (that means you will have to fly your lawyer to California to take them to court) so its within your best interest to try to settle it over the phone, if you piss them off you won't win, their user agreement gives them permission to charge their fees to your card, that throws larceny out the window and changes it to a civil matter in the state of California sorry man but that's how it works, I can sit here and get your hopes up or I can tell you the truth, just let me know what it is you want to hear...
If it was me I'd do like I said... get a full understanding and call them back, and when you do I would suggest you start out with "Can you help me with this, I think there may have been a mistake" rather than the whole "You'll hear from my lawyer if you don't fix this" because they are trained to stop giving any info if they feel there is any chance of legal implications (that's why you were on hold for so long)
no ebay store, auction format only. My account has been active since 2007 and was done via debit card, which was changed in 2009 to paypal only information rather than automatic payments sent/received from ebay. Stealing is larceny period. This is far more than just a little "oops" you can clearly see both "fee balances" they claim are valid. 61.75 in fees for two pieces totaling 30.00? I can giuve a break down of the charges for the fees if you like.
Auction format fees:
each total : .90
.15 for listing
.15 for picture
.30 for picture 1
.30 final Sale fee
Total .90 (x2) = 1.80
Where does this 31.20 and 30.55? it doesn't.
Can't back ebay this time, they were 100% wrong in doing what they did, and it was 100% illegal.
as for juridiction, they did not take money from my debit card or credit card, they removed money from a bank account using paypal as the medium. There is no active debit or credit card on file in either one. I have filed the dispute which has been updated to a legal claim using paypal, which means this is over state lines making it federal rather than state. My bank is going to file also which puts the ball in our court. Not arguing Huffie, and I do understand what your saying. It isn't as though I called screaming and swearing telling them I am going to sue them blah blah, thats not the case. I stated mistake, error, fault, mentioned I would like to speak to a supervisor, got hung up on, told I was unethical, a fraud, liar, etc etc.... I am not quite sure how though. I followed their rules, the way they state them. I was very careful to list my 2 items in low fee auction format only, and as you seen above, its rather expensive to have low fee auctions, infact they averaged almost 31.00 a piece for each 15.00 sale apparently.
Ironbnder
05-04-2011, 06:55 PM
Then I must ask.. What was the reply from the first or second person you spoke with as to what the $31 charges were for?
they stated it was for listing fees, but in my account it clearly states the same number for each item which were auction only, sold to highest bidder, no reserve or BIN. both sold for 15.00 each to the same person. fees were .90 per item including the final sale fee and were paid by me immediately after those items were sold.
HuffieVA
05-04-2011, 07:02 PM
no ebay store, auction format only. My account has been active since 2007 and was done via debit card, which was changed in 2009 to paypal only information rather than automatic payments sent/received from ebay. Stealing is larceny period. This is far more than just a little "oops" you can clearly see both "fee balances" they claim are valid. 61.75 in fees for two pieces totaling 30.00? I can giuve a break down of the charges for the fees if you like.
Auction format fees:
each total : .90
.15 for listing
.15 for picture
.30 for picture 1
.30 final Sale fee
Total .90 (x2) = 1.80
Where does this 31.20 and 30.55? it doesn't.
Can't back ebay this time, they were 100% wrong in doing what they did, and it was 100% illegal.
I'm not backing eBay, and not saying they aren't wrong... what else does the invoice list on it that would be what the charge is for or supposedly for, once you get that info you have a leg to stand on as far as your argument, until then the girl on the other end of the phone only hears you saying that they owe you money if you have everything when you call you can explain at least where the charges are on the invoice, it could be a mistake on their part or yours, I cant tell because you dont have the info to figure it out, you may very well know your right, but if you cant show it you aren't going to prove it to them.
Good Luck
Ironbnder
05-04-2011, 07:04 PM
So then you explained the fees were $1 & something and they said "NO ITS $31.00"? ???
Please let us know how it turns out.
the invoice shows the listing fees as I showed you, then 2 lump sums shown as listing fees 31.20 for april, and another for 30.55 for march. They can see that and "irish" as she stated her name was the same for call 1 and 2, and hung up both times, stated that they are legal listing fees for suction style listings. read link below.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html
1. No Insertion Fee for first 50 listings every month (Insertion fees for auction-style format listings )
2.Final Value fee is 9% of final sale price (should have been a total of $1.35 per item)
3.No Reserve, No Set Price.
4. First Picture is supposed to be free (I was charged .15 for both pictures, 1 on each listing)
the first two apply to my listing, the others are for set pricing.
wow, meant auction, not suction..lol
HuffieVA
05-04-2011, 11:20 PM
OK, if it has those amounts listed as insertion fees, ask for a breakdown showing the items that the fees are related to... is there anything else strange about your account (check unsold items to see if someone may have listed something on your account)
thats what they suggested too, but only those 2 items listed for sale and sold. the impression i got was "oh well guess your just gonna have to pay it and deal with it" and I refuse to pay that for something i shouldn't be paying for, especially now with an NSF on top of it.
WisconsinJohn
05-05-2011, 12:15 AM
Terrible. Hope you get somewhere and YOU are in the right. I know when I had sold on eBay to an overseas buyer I learned how vulnerable you are to fees, scammers and disputes to item not as described, even when it exactly was. One guy was trying to keep the items and get a partial refund, like name your price. So, your paypal account is now negative from the multiple item dispute 6 weeks after shipment and frozen for a week (even after a bank transfer that processes for days but they take in seconds), but if you dispute it is at least a few weeks before the buyer will try to resolve through paypal. Then who knows how long till you get your stuff back and is it intact? Hope you get it worked out. BTW the dish network (mentioned earlier in the post) is trying to scam me as well...auto payment for 2 years...paperless statements...late fees for missed payments? No more auto pay? Statement in the mail with late fees? Valid card, valid funds, overdraft protection in case of nsf (never was)? Dont wanna pay the 10 bucks for their mistake! I agree with the principal....
HuffieVA
05-05-2011, 12:22 AM
I agree 100% if you don't owe it you shouldn't have to pay, I've never had a issue with there billing (since sept of 97) but that doesn't mean mistakes/screw-ups can't happen, try emailing them through the billing inquiries and request a detailed invoice if you dont already have one (the detailed ones list the item number with every charge and not lumped together in one amount, the other thing that they make it easy to do is sign up for listing helper services that cost so much a month some are free for the first month and then charge monthly after that, its possible you accidentally signed up for one of them, I wasn't suggesting earlier that you don't do anything, I was just explaining that the whole lawyer thing would cost you more in the long run.especially if you somehow accidentally clicked and signed up for something you didn't realize or mean to. The point is, they are required to show what the charges were for in detail once you get that info you will have something to work with, if you accidentally signed up for a listing service you may be screwed but you can end up getting screwed worse if you don't figure out what it is and they keep charging you because you didn't cancel it. I know it sucks trying to deal with big companies, they always refer you to their site (because its all been prescreened by lawyers) so you will probably have better luck with email until you can identify exactly what the charges were for, I know you need it fixed now but it will probably take some time/effort to figure it out and get your money back...
Rodd
Rodd,
yeah its a pain, and I can handle the time frame, I do have the money to revert the NSF and dual payments they hit me with in a savings account i use for balance keeping rather than a checking account just to prevent from unauthorized funds withdrawls. Thats not a concern, but now the principal has kicked in over this whole mess. Being a business man, I am very patient and do completely understand mistakes happen, far too often, but for them to basically blow me off, that meant to me they understand the fault and don't believe I would really do anything about it and just pay them and be done with it. Thank god I grew a pair earlier in life and know how to untangle a mess like this properly.
I knew what you had meant earlier and had not taken it wrong, I promise that. I read with grains of salt, and between the lines if need be, but not incorrectly, so no worries bud.
Results accomplished
ebay refunded the 31.20, the 30.55 and reimbursed me for the 35.00 NSF fee, and left me an online message apologizing for any inconvenience and the error made by them.
.....whew.... i almost got angry...lol
p.s. the apology was worth more than the 97.25 they got me for initially. but thankfully they replaced it due to their mistake and my banks attorney, using their own set seller rules against them.
atc007
05-06-2011, 09:57 PM
Just saw this..GREAT JOB MAN!! There aren't a lot of us left anymore!! You steal from me,,you're gonna pay. period, Why do people just listen to their BS and take it?? Anyhow,,50 hours of your life you can never get back,,but they didn't get to steal from you in the end! Well done!! I've always paid up front for everything,never had credit, have never checked my credit score.. I bought a pair of Nike's in July of 1997,,they were to be $49,if I signed up for a Jc Penney card,they were $35,I was dumb,I said sure,,PAid it the 1st statement,,they are STILL after their $14!! They call like 4 times a year,I hang up on them,,big deal. 14 years later!! Ahh yes,the world we live in.
lol atc, for me it was simply the principal of it. I am just lil ole me.
redskinman
05-06-2011, 10:53 PM
Results accomplished
ebay refunded the 31.20, the 30.55 and reimbursed me for the 35.00 NSF fee, and left me an online message apologizing for any inconvenience and the error made by them.
.....whew.... i almost got angry...lol
glad it worked out for you.What was it you think made ebay change their mind? Did you talk to somebody at ebay or was it your bank contacting them that did the trick?
the banks lawyer called them....lol
hang&rattle
05-07-2011, 09:15 AM
the banks lawyer called them....lol
It's sad, that what it took for my disputes. They (e-bay) don't use lawyers except for corporate things. They would never waste the cost on little people as us. What most big companies try to do is drag it out to cost the little guy. Don't always work, especially for folks like us that stand. If more people would quit shrugging there shoulders and saying 'Oh well', the country wouldn't be in this condition. Stand, always stand, it was what built and made this country great at one time.
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