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View Full Version : 1985 Big Red 250es Build ===!!!!FINISHED!!!!===



Stonewall
06-20-2011, 08:22 PM
Hey everyone, I decided to start in on restoring an '85 Big Red for a neighbor today, so I'm starting a thread to post my progress and ask questions along the way. This is a one-owner trike that was purchased and used for farm work. It was well taken care of, always properly maintained, and even though it looks like its been through hell, runs great! Most of this restoration will be cosmetic, I plan on having the frame, forks, racks, etc. powdercoated, new plastics, seat and tank. There is one minor carb problem though; if the fuel petcock is left in the "on" position, the carb will slowly leak gas back through the air cleaner and into the airbox. I learned this when it wouldn't start the other morning and I found the airbox full of gas. Is this a common problem, or a really off-the-wall thing? My first guess is that there is a hole or something in the float. Thoughts?:wondering

atc007
06-20-2011, 08:27 PM
1st off welcome! The float needle isn't seating,may be worn,probably just a piece of dirt. The floats are plastic,and probably not leaking,but anything is possible! And yes,that would do that,Either way,it needs disassembled and cleaned and examined. Good luck! And cannot WAIT! Big Reds are hands down,my favorites!!

Stonewall
06-20-2011, 10:17 PM
Big Reds are hands down,my favorites!!

Mine too!!! So sad I can't keep it when I finish...:cry:

mirthgrinder
06-21-2011, 10:43 PM
Download the manual...If you can print it and put it into as binder, even better!

http://72.52.143.80/~trikes/Manuals/ATC%20manuals/atc250es-85-87servicemanual.pdf

I am also rebuilding an '85 Big Red. So far, Carb Rebuilt, Brake Cables from Motion-Pro, Used front Fender, (Thanks Captain Wheezy!) Brake Shoes, Fork Boots, etc. etc.

As I go through this trike, let me know what you are doing and I'll let you know If I have done that yet; maybe I can give some pointers...

There is also a Big Red group here on 3WW. Join, as there are a lot of Big Red fans that can also help out!

Big Reds are Awesome!

MG

mirthgrinder
06-21-2011, 10:44 PM
Oops! Sorry. Welcome to the board!

mirthgrinder
06-21-2011, 11:04 PM
Here is a link to the 'Group, Big Red Riding Hood'...

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/group.php?groupid=24

Stonewall
06-22-2011, 07:21 PM
Thanks for the welcomes!

I took a look at the Big Red group, but I couldn't figure out how to join.

I almost have the machine compeltely torn down. I plan on going through pretty much everything except the engine, which runs great. I'm going have most of the metal parts powdercoated, new Maier plastics, reupholstered seat, new Clark tank, new 12" wheels and 26" tires, new bearings and seals, new rear shock, rebuild the front suspension, new brakes, wiring harness, control cables, levers, and I probably forgot something there LOL.

Thanks for the manual link. I also have a Clymer repair manual for some guidance too.

BIG RED ATC
06-22-2011, 09:05 PM
Will 12 inch wheels and 26 inch tires fit without suspension mods? Good luck with the restore and please post pics.

MudBug
06-22-2011, 09:09 PM
Will 12 inch wheels and 26 inch tires fit without suspension mods? Good luck with the restore and please post pics.

no suspension mod needed!

Jason125m
06-22-2011, 09:23 PM
Will 12 inch wheels and 26 inch tires fit without suspension mods? Good luck with the restore and please post pics.

Yep, i have 12" wheels, and 26" tires on my 250es and there is plenty of room, i could go to a 28" if i wanted too..

Stonewall
06-22-2011, 11:15 PM
I pulled the 26-12-12 wheels off of my Rancher and put them on the rear of the Big Red for a week or so to make sure that there wouldn't be any issues. (Also so I could ride it...the origional rims are so bent that I can't seat the bead....) I was planning on going with ITP Delta Steel wheels because they're fairly cheap and look good, will a 2+5 offset line up properly on the front? The stock wheels look to be 3+6, so I think thats equivalent to taking an inch of each side? Also, can I fit a 26-12-12 tire on the front, or do I need to go with a 26-10-12?

One more question, probably more important; is there a good trick to pulling the chrome/aluminum suspension parts(not sure the proper term) of the forks out of the main red part? I got the bolts out but they're kinda rusted together and I don't want to break the aluminum.

I'll post some pics as soon as if figure out how to transfer them from my new iPhone to the computer!

Thorpe
06-23-2011, 01:35 AM
ITP Delta Steel wheels because they're fairly cheap and look good, will a 2+5 offset line up properly on the front? The stock wheels look to be 3+6, so I think thats equivalent to taking an inch of each side? Also, can I fit a 26-12-12 tire on the front, or do I need to go with a 26-10-12?

Well, since the stock tire is a 25-12-9.... I would imagine a 26" tall, 12" wide tire will fit without issue... As for the wheels centering up without any work, good luck with that! (murphys law applied here)

Stonewall
06-24-2011, 12:12 AM
Got it almost torn all the way down today, just need to get the axle out, take off the swingarm and engine, then sort out everything that needs to be powdercoated. Any tips for taking the forks apart?

mirthgrinder
06-24-2011, 09:37 AM
For the front forks, specifically the front shocks, refer to the online manual, Chapter 11 pdf page 191, book page 11-21 and beyond. Chapter 11 deals with the entivre front fork assembly. On mine, the Fork Set and Pinch bolts were a little rusty. I soaked them overnight with WD-40 and they came right out. Inspect the steering stem for rust in the shock mounting holes and clean if necessary. When re-assembling, a little grease or petroleum jelly will help in getting the shock to seat. You will notice that the top of the shock has a groove around it, this groove must be seen through the mounting hole for the set bolt. If it is not seen, then install the other shock, place some cardboard or a block of wood under the shock bottoms and press down sharply on the steering stem compressing the shock several times until you hear a soft 'Ping' from both of the shocks. Inspect both set bolt mounting holes to see if they are seated and screw in the set bolts, followed by the pinch bolts. This is all that I have done to the fork assembly. As for the removal of the steering stem, I have not tackled that yet...

Anybody else here has experience with steering stem removal?

Hope this helps.

MG

Stonewall
07-30-2011, 10:09 PM
Time for an update...I haven't done much to the BR in the last month, since helping my dad with bean watering takes priority. (Not to mention I've been distracted by my new BR purchase...) I have been doing the final dissassembly to prepare for powdercoat the past few days, and spent a whole afternoon on stuck and twisted off bolts... I finally managed to get the front shocks out of the "steering head assembly". I think all I have left is to take the inner pieces of the swingarm pivot bearings out of their housings. Any tips for getting those out?

Stonewall
08-01-2011, 04:23 PM
Any tips for removing the inner swingarm pivot bearing races? I just need to get them out so I can take parts to be powder coated.

malibulvr
08-04-2011, 01:16 AM
We need some pics here! lol

Stonewall
08-08-2011, 04:33 PM
Finally got the swingarm pivot bearings out, so now everything is ready for powder coating. Hopefully that will be done this week, and I can get a few things put back together.

Here are a few pics from before the dismantling...
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0041.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0055.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0048.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0042.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0049.jpg

badass350x
08-08-2011, 06:59 PM
Just too tell ya, I have one of those rims on my 85 and it is offset a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch on the front!!! now I dont know if its was made that way from the factory like the 85 350x or not....
Well, since the stock tire is a 25-12-9.... I would imagine a 26" tall, 12" wide tire will fit without issue... As for the wheels centering up without any work, good luck with that! (murphys law applied here)

Jason125m
08-08-2011, 07:12 PM
Damn shes rough. Looks like a good start though, looking forward to progress pictures. Goodluck!

Jason

Stonewall
08-09-2011, 12:09 AM
Just too tell ya, I have one of those rims on my 85 and it is offset a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch on the front!!! now I dont know if its was made that way from the factory like the 85 350x or not....

What offset are you using, and which side is it too far over?

badass350x
08-09-2011, 01:17 AM
What offset are you using, and which side is it too far over?

Its supposed to be the stock offset, its over to the drum side!

gomer202
08-09-2011, 02:23 AM
Are you going to get an oem tank??

REDBEARD
08-09-2011, 03:14 AM
you have a very good start for a restore. looks very solid, nice rear fenders, racks and so on :D

Stonewall
08-09-2011, 09:47 PM
It's a one-owner machine, and has been well maintained mechanically so I'm basically just freshening it up. I took the frame, swinger, forks, and various other parts to be powdercoated today. Hopefully those will be done by the end of the week. Now I need to look up some bearings. The plastics look OK from the pictures, but it will be getting new Maiers and a Clark plastic tank. I don't know what I'm going to do yet for the side covers, the kick cover is OK but the left cover is gone. I havn't compared it to my BR, but the rear shock off this one appears to be sprung.

gomer202
08-09-2011, 11:24 PM
I think a metal tank would really set of this restoration I bet a member with a BR tank laying Around would probably be willing to sell you one

tri again
08-09-2011, 11:41 PM
It's a one-owner machine, and has been well maintained mechanically so I'm basically just freshening it up. I took the frame, swinger, forks, and various other parts to be powdercoated today. Hopefully those will be done by the end of the week. Now I need to look up some bearings. The plastics look OK from the pictures, but it will be getting new Maiers and a Clark plastic tank. I don't know what I'm going to do yet for the side covers, the kick cover is OK but the left cover is gone. I havn't compared it to my BR, but the rear shock off this one appears to be sprung.

We found most bearings locally for way cheaper than the bike shops
if you can find some sort of numbers on them.
Also, did you get your swing races out?
If you're going thru all that work, some folks will put
a wooden dowel in the swing tube to take up space and then
screw in some grease fittings so the swing bearings can be greased with a gun.
Then again, they usually last 25 years so needing attention 4 times a century might not be a priority.

My local napa will match shocks by min and max length.
I see powder coating can cause trouble with threads and races if they are not plugged,
but most of those guys have watched oc chopper on the discovery channel so hopefully
they won't powderbake anything critical.

I'd really enjoy a trike on a workbench being reborn.
Just wonder where the time would come from.

Good luck and have a great time.

Stonewall
08-09-2011, 11:52 PM
I think a metal tank would really set of this restoration I bet a member with a BR tank laying Around would probably be willing to sell you one

The guy I'm restoring it for wants a plastic tank. If it was my choice, I'd try to get a metal one, but it's not my choice...

tri again
08-10-2011, 12:03 AM
Hey everyone, I decided to start in on restoring an '85 Big Red for a neighbor today, so I'm starting a thread to post my progress and ask questions along the way. This is a one-owner trike that was purchased and used for farm work. It was well taken care of, always properly maintained, and even though it looks like its been through hell, runs great! Most of this restoration will be cosmetic, I plan on having the frame, forks, racks, etc. powdercoated, new plastics, seat and tank. There is one minor carb problem though; if the fuel petcock is left in the "on" position, the carb will slowly leak gas back through the air cleaner and into the airbox. I learned this when it wouldn't start the other morning and I found the airbox full of gas. Is this a common problem, or a really off-the-wall thing? My first guess is that there is a hole or something in the float. Thoughts?:wondering

I've seen floats sink.
Gas 'on' can also run into the cylinder and dilute the engine oil.
Fuel valves are not always accurate either.
ON may be off by 30 degrees so I usually test them.

Most likely a sticky float needle or cruddy seat.

Sounds like a real fun project.

Stonewall
08-10-2011, 12:03 AM
We found most bearings locally for way cheaper than the bike shops
if you can find some sort of numbers on them.
Also, did you get your swing races out?
If you're going thru all that work, some folks will put
a wooden dowel in the swing tube to take up space and then
screw in some grease fittings so the swing bearings can be greased with a gun.
Then again, they usually last 25 years so needing attention 4 times a century might not be a priority.

My local napa will match shocks by min and max length.
I see powder coating can cause trouble with threads and races if they are not plugged,
but most of those guys have watched oc chopper on the discovery channel so hopefully
they won't powderbake anything critical.

I'd really enjoy a trike on a workbench being reborn.
Just wonder where the time would come from.

Good luck and have a great time.

I got all the bearings for my 70 from the local Bumper to Bumper/hardware/whatever else you need store, I think they're Timkens. I was just wondering if I should look elsewhere for higher quality or if those are good enough. I'll probably just pack the swing bearings good, since they seem to have a good seal in there. (there was clean origional grease on the retainer cups...)

I put bolts in all of the threads so they wouldn't get coated. I watch OC Chopper too...

I love to restore anything, there's something about taking something that everyone else called junk and left for dead, then breathing new life into it...
I have already restored my 1974 ATC 70, and a 1983 Hustler 950 6x6. (Check that out on 6x6world.com, my username is the same there.) I'm just 17 and taking college classes to finish up my highschool, and I work for my dad off and on when he needs me on the farm, so I can usually find time for this kind of thing.

Stonewall
08-10-2011, 12:09 AM
I've seen floats sink.
Gas 'on' can also run into the cylinder and dilute the engine oil.
Fuel valves are not always accurate either.
ON may be off by 30 degrees so I usually test them.

Most likely a sticky float needle or cruddy seat.

Sounds like a real fun project.

I did check the valve, and it seemed to be working. (Off was off and ON was on, but I think reserve is plugged.)

I talked to a local guy that has worked on several, and he said that sometimes on a machine that has alot of miles the needle will vibrate and mess up the seat. I will try to rebuild it first, and if all else fails just go buy a 300 carb.

Stonewall
08-15-2011, 07:28 PM
Went and picked up the parts I took down to Little Rock for powdercoat today, everything looks excellent! This thing is going to look better than showroom...
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0127.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0128.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0129.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0130.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0131.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0132.jpg

Stonewall
08-28-2011, 04:10 PM
Been getting lots of parts in the mail...got the new Maier fenders, the new wheels and tires, tank, and lots of misc parts and hardware!
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/iPhonepics114.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/iPhonepics119.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/iPhonepics120.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/iPhonepics124.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/iPhonepics123.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/iPhonepics118.jpg

More pics soon!!

motoman1012002
08-28-2011, 04:50 PM
looking good for sure

motordude
08-28-2011, 05:06 PM
looking great, cant wait to see the end results.

atc007
08-28-2011, 05:09 PM
Great stuff!! Waiting............ !!

one2hunt
09-11-2011, 12:10 AM
Did you just spray paint the whole motor?

Stonewall
09-11-2011, 01:21 AM
Did you just spray paint the whole motor?

I used some spray can engine enamel that I got at an auto parts store.

atc007
09-11-2011, 07:28 AM
Waiting!!!

chuckiedog04
09-11-2011, 11:45 AM
this is an awesome build thread! keep it coming!

Jason125m
09-11-2011, 03:11 PM
Can't wait for an update! Looking good Stonewall!

Mondexbrute
09-11-2011, 06:40 PM
Very Nice can't wait to it all together! Have Fun

one2hunt
09-11-2011, 07:37 PM
This is awesome. I hope I can put mine back together if I ever make it this far.

Stonewall
09-11-2011, 08:23 PM
Thanks for all the comments, I'll have an update as soon as I get some more time to work on it. I'm taking Chemistry and Calculus this fall and it's taking up most of my time, so I havn't been able to get anything done in a while. This is definatly going to be the nicest thing I've ever built, and it really really sucks that I'm not keeping it.....but I have even bigger plans for another one down the road.....:D

85twofiftyES
09-12-2011, 12:12 AM
Can I ask what you paid for the powdercoat job?

Stonewall
09-12-2011, 12:30 AM
Well.....the guy on the phone said it would be around $150, but when I went to pick it up, they told me that it was $450. Supposedly the $150 was just for the frame and swinger... But they were nice about the misunderstanding and I ended up paying $275, which I think is fair, considering the excellent job they did.

malibulvr
09-12-2011, 02:46 AM
The engine looks great, I take it you just degreased and then just shot it with enamel? Did you have to prime it or just shot it with color?

Stonewall
09-12-2011, 09:40 AM
The engine looks great, I take it you just degreased and then just shot it with enamel? Did you have to prime it or just shot it with color?

No I didn't prime it, just a few coats of enamel. It really looks great with the black plastic side pieces and one of jeswinehart's clutch adjuster caps! Pics soon!!

Stonewall
09-17-2011, 12:05 PM
Progress:
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0168.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0169.jpg

gomer202
09-17-2011, 12:45 PM
Man I still think a metal tank would look better I bet there is one on here a member would sell you!

Stonewall
09-17-2011, 01:19 PM
Man, I'd love to put a metal tank on it, but this is what the guy I'm building it for wants..... This plastic POS is going to ruin the look of this Big Red. It doesn't even fit right.

swampthang
09-17-2011, 01:30 PM
When the owner sees how nice the rest of the bike is gonna look and how out of place that tank looks he prolly will change his mind. I like your attention to the details. Very nice to see a trike get given a second chance at being new again. Keep up the good work with the project and keep the pictures flowing:)

atc007
09-17-2011, 03:05 PM
Great work! Thanx for sharing! Hideous tank.

polka
09-17-2011, 10:50 PM
You need a jack or a platform! I'm afraid that cardboard box is going to give out! Great work, though. Glad to see you went as far as you did in this process.

Stonewall
09-21-2011, 12:20 PM
You need a jack or a platform! I'm afraid that cardboard box is going to give out! Great work, though. Glad to see you went as far as you did in this process.

There is a bucket under the cardboard, the only reason I'm using the box is for a little bit of cushion to keep from scratching the frame.

Stonewall
09-21-2011, 12:24 PM
More progress...
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/e44d52c6.jpg
Damn tank....

patblkwell
09-21-2011, 12:43 PM
Looking good Stonewall, you may want to find you a metal tank and get it repainted to go with the rest of the newness of your bike...the plastic one is nice, but you can't put decals on it and all.

Jason125m
09-21-2011, 12:43 PM
That looks great! I HATE the tank though...

Goodwork

Jason

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 12:50 AM
More progress:
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0202.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0204.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0205.jpg

It will be sitting on 3 wheels again tomorrow morning; I would have put them on already but I put some paint on the castle nuts and pins and needed to let it dry. I still need to rebuild the carb, and there are still a few parts I need to get (left side cover, shift lever, etc.). I will probably put the rear fenders on the rack tomorrow and bolt that on.

Damn tank.

chuckiedog04
10-16-2011, 02:10 AM
Looking really nice! what type of tires are those?

Jason125m
10-16-2011, 06:36 PM
Looks great, but i HATE how he wants a plastic tank. Looks like shlt compared to the rest of the bike.

dougspcs
10-16-2011, 07:07 PM
Looks great, but i HATE how he wants a plastic tank. Looks like shlt compared to the rest of the bike.

Thanks, I didn't want to be the critic because the rest of the trike looks so damn good..but my thoughts exactly!!

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 08:59 PM
Looking really nice! what type of tires are those?

They are Sedona Mud Rebels, size is 26x12-12. They seem like pretty nice tires for $85.

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 09:03 PM
Thanks, I didn't want to be the critic because the rest of the trike looks so damn good..but my thoughts exactly!!

Lol, Thanks! I'm hoping when he sees how terrible and cheap it looks, he'll change his mind. It doesn't line up properly with the side covers, it's the wrong color, stickers won't stick... shitty...

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 09:09 PM
Today's progress!:
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/4d5dbc72.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/32415565.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/a0a3bc06.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/c84f92dc.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/d7eb8698.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/db15ed55.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/45cc61d4.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/e3e2228c.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/373388c0.jpg

Thorpe
10-16-2011, 09:13 PM
Any reason you are running the front tire backward?

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 09:14 PM
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/bb0603c0.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/d9944544.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/f69c2125.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/c03d5929.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/46b02e2c.jpg

Rear rack and fenders are mounted, trunk lid is just there to look at. Hope to finish it soon so I can get back to other projects.

chuckiedog04
10-16-2011, 09:34 PM
If you dont mind me asking, how much was it for all the new fenders and trunk lid? Im thinking of doing a full restore on mine this winter.

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 09:35 PM
Any reason you are running the front tire backward?

When running a direction tread tire on a free-wheeling application the tread should be facing backwards to help it shed mud better. It's kinda hard to explain, but here goes: The driven tires push against the ground when going foreward, so the point of the V pushes the dirt/mud toward the sides so that the tire cleans out to keep digging. When the same tire is free-wheeled, the force is opposite; ergo the ground pushes the tire. The tire is mounted backwards so that the force is still pushing against the V (the V points foreward where it touches the ground.) and the tires clean out instead of balling up.

I see a lot of pictures where people have their front tire mounted the same direction as their rears. If you think about how the front tire actully drags, mounting the tread this way has a scooping effect. This will allow the tires to ball up much easier.

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 09:37 PM
If you dont mind me asking, how much was it for all the new fenders and trunk lid? Im thinking of doing a full restore on mine this winter.

$328.09 shipped. I purchased them from the seller "GHDISCOUNTATV" on eBay.

chuckiedog04
10-16-2011, 09:42 PM
thanks for the info. looking good. hard to believe its the same one

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 09:47 PM
Yeah, it's amazing what some powdercoat and shiny new plastic will do! Not to mention I have put alot of hours into this machine, it'll be hard to let it go....

Thorpe
10-16-2011, 10:27 PM
When running a direction tread tire on a free-wheeling application the tread should be facing backwards to help it shed mud better. It's kinda hard to explain, but here goes: The driven tires push against the ground when going foreward, so the point of the V pushes the dirt/mud toward the sides so that the tire cleans out to keep digging. When the same tire is free-wheeled, the force is opposite; ergo the ground pushes the tire. The tire is mounted backwards so that the force is still pushing against the V (the V points foreward where it touches the ground.) and the tires clean out instead of balling up.

I see a lot of pictures where people have their front tire mounted the same direction as their rears. If you think about how the front tire actully drags, mounting the tread this way has a scooping effect. This will allow the tires to ball up much easier.

I understand the idea, but dont really agree with it... I have had mudlites on my ES for a couple years now, and with the front rotating the same as the rears, I find it steers out of ruts very well, and never have had the mud ball up on it... (fwiw, imo)

dougspcs
10-16-2011, 10:49 PM
I understand the idea, but dont really agree with it... I have had mudlites on my ES for a couple years now, and with the front rotating the same as the rears, I find it steers out of ruts very well, and never have had the mud ball up on it... (fwiw, imo)

I'm kinda with you are on that one Thorpe...Sorry, but I think your theory is a bit flawed Stonewall

The V running in the same direction as your drive wheels also helps with directional side slip as you are turning..meaning the side of the V in the tread is at a 90' angle to your turn allowing more surface contact area in the direction the tire would want to slip.

I hope I explained that right..

Therefore, running the tire in reverse like that will take away from corning traction causing your tread to side slip more!!

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 10:56 PM
I understand the idea, but dont really agree with it... I have had mudlites on my ES for a couple years now, and with the front rotating the same as the rears, I find it steers out of ruts very well, and never have had the mud ball up on it... (fwiw, imo)

What type of mud do you normally ride in? The mud around here is really soupy or sticky (depends on the saturation...) silt loam from the Mississippi river flood in the 20's (I was told that's how it got here), and extremely sticky gumbo mud. It does make a difference around here.

This logic origionally comes from farm equipment. If you pay attention, you'll see directional tread tires mounted backwards on equipment that has to be drug through the mud; for example, 2 wheel drive combines will have them on the rear, as well as grain carts, and sometimes even 2wd tractors will have them on the front instead of ribbed tires. Non-directionals would ball up in these situations, as would directionals mounted forewards.

Stonewall
10-16-2011, 11:01 PM
I'm kinda with you are on that one Thorpe...Sorry, but I think your theory is a bit flawed Stonewall

The V running in the same direction as your drive wheels also helps with directional side slip as you are turning..meaning the side of the V in the tread is at a 90' angle to your turn allowing more surface contact area in the direction the tire would want to slip.

I hope I explained that right..

Therefore, running the tire in reverse like that will take away from corning traction causing your tread to side slip more!!

With all due respect, NO.

I understand your theory, but the lugs are still at the same angle to the foreward motion, just on the opposite side of the tire.

As explained in my previous post, this is a prooven theory that has been in use for many many years.

dougspcs
10-17-2011, 07:19 AM
The difference is minimal if any at all..but I still will keep my steering tires pointed in the direction they are.

I respect your theory and opinion and the job you're doing on that BR is 1st rate!!

I'd be afraid to ride it if mine were that clean!!

mullet
10-17-2011, 11:14 AM
Not picking sides in the tread direction argument, but I will say that I have noticed the tread point "backwards" on farm equipment before. I always thought it was because someone put the tire on backwards, but after reading stonewalls comments, perhaps it was intentional...

Awesome job on the re-store man! I wish I had the skills and ambition (and money) to do this to one of my BR's. Can't wait to see it finished.

Stonewall
10-17-2011, 11:48 AM
Not picking sides in the tread direction argument, but I will say that I have noticed the tread point "backwards" on farm equipment before. I always thought it was because someone put the tire on backwards, but after reading stonewalls comments, perhaps it was intentional...

Awesome job on the re-store man! I wish I had the skills and ambition (and money) to do this to one of my BR's. Can't wait to see it finished.

I KNOW it's intentional. We OWN equipment with tires intentionally put on "backwards" for the very reason I explained before. I'm not trying to start a fight with the tread direction thing, just show that I'm not full of trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro. It is a real thing, and it does make a difference here.

Thanks for all the great comments on the build!!!! It's great to see how y'all appreciate my work!

Thorpe
10-17-2011, 11:50 AM
Does the backward tread still work the same, when there is little weight on the front? A heavy tractor, or trailer is obviously way different than a trike... (Don't get me wrong, you can mount your tire anyway you choose... And MN mud isn't too gumbo like)

Stonewall
10-17-2011, 12:02 PM
Does the backward tread still work the same, when there is little weight on the front? A heavy tractor, or trailer is obviously way different than a trike... (Don't get me wrong, you can mount your tire anesthesia you choose... And MM mud isn't too funniest like)

Too an extent, yes. Of course it's not going to work as well as on a grain cart or tractor, but it does help. It also helps to prevent the front tire from locking up and pushing up a mound of mud in front of you.

The front tire carries more weight that you'd think, because when you're moving foreward, all of your momentum focuses on the single front wheel.

Thorpe
10-17-2011, 12:25 PM
Not if your doing it right! Front end in the air!! Our mud up here is usually more soupy than sticky, so balling a tire up doesn't happen too often...

Stonewall
10-17-2011, 07:56 PM
Lol, that's the way to do it!

Down here the mud is real sticky, so we have to do what we can to keep the front tire rolling.
The ATC 70/90/110/125/185 fork extensions were invented for this purpose.

As far as updates on the build for today, not much. I took some steel wool to the handlebar mounts and shined them up, and that's about it. Homework to do now:(

atc007
10-17-2011, 08:58 PM
Damn it!!! I saw you posted and was hoping for my BR fix for the night!! Someone else build up one of these!! I love em. ohh yeah,,as a PA farmer,,he's right on the treads. Much less critical in the North though,,watery mud.

Stonewall
10-17-2011, 09:10 PM
Yeah, progress is kinda slow during the week; college is more important. (only slightly:D)

Hair Bear Bunch
10-18-2011, 03:54 PM
Off topic but just adding to the tyre debate...
Astheticly, yes run it facing forwards it looks better.
Logically, run it backwards. If the back tyres are set up for grip to propell you forwards, then a rearward facing front tyre will naturally give you better grip when the weight transfers to the front under braking.
Over here we have machines called Unimogs (apologies if you have them there!) which are best described as a large 4x4 pickup truck with 3 point tractor linkage. These mad things can weigh over 5 tons, manage over 60 mph and with a 32 speed trans can be used as a tractor for field work. When used for heavy draft work all wheels point forwards, but for better braking at other times we swap the front wheels over so they face backwards.

mullet
10-19-2011, 10:35 AM
It looks like that front wheel centered up pretty nice! Did you have to add any spacers?

Stonewall
10-19-2011, 06:53 PM
It looks like that front wheel centered up pretty nice! Did you have to add any spacers?

Nope, no spacers. Just a 2+5 offset. It's off center maybe 1/4-1/2"; I put them on my BR to see if it made any difference, and it handles just fine. You have to look real close to see that its off center anyway.

caseyr0303
10-20-2011, 12:27 AM
I am new to this site as this is my first post. I have to say that thing looks amazing. Probably better than it did in 85. How did you make the rear dif look so great. Is that paint? If so what kind of paint and color?

Stonewall
10-24-2011, 11:10 AM
I am new to this site as this is my first post. I have to say that thing looks amazing. Probably better than it did in 85. How did you make the rear dif look so great. Is that paint? If so what kind of paint and color?

Thanks, especially for making your first post about my project! I did paint the dif, after i wire brushed the whole thing and cleaned it with acetone. I used Plasti-Kote engine enamel, the color is "207 Aluminum". I used this pretty much everywhere you see silver, becuase when properly applied, it holds up pretty good.

BTW, Welcome to the site!

Stonewall
10-24-2011, 11:15 AM
I didn't get a whole lot done this weekend, just a lot of piddly stuff like the skid plates, front rack, handlebars, trunk, etc..... I put most of the wiring back in. Still waiting on parts from Bike Bandit...
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/0f4be286.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/00c053e6.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/030dbe78.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/451e7454.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/cac9a67c.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/90810b35.jpg

Any tips on making the dash piece look better? It's going to ruin the "new" factor!

badass350x
10-24-2011, 11:50 AM
I would paint the face plate then sand off the raised letters, the plastic I would soak down in wd-40!

tjrider
10-24-2011, 01:09 PM
I used Back to Black from Mothers on mine and it came out looking great. I had to apply it several times but it came out looking almost new.

Lil Earl
10-24-2011, 04:50 PM
its coming along very nicely, i really like your ideas and work

Stonewall
10-28-2011, 08:12 PM
I have great news! I just talked to the trike owner, and he agreed that a metal tank is the way to go! So, now I need to source a nice metal tank, clean it up, and get it on there and this thing finished before the 19th. Anybody got a nice metal ES tank they would sell me?

Can I powdercoat the tank?

Looking at this on evilbay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-86-87-HONDA-ATC-250ES-BIG-RED-OEM-FUEL-GAS-TANK-PETCOCK-250-ES-ATC250ES-ATV-/140625880861?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20bdf4a71d

1300man
11-01-2011, 11:12 PM
I have to get me one of theses big reds!

gomer202
11-02-2011, 12:33 AM
Finally you decided to get a metal tank the plastic tank would ruin the whole project in my opinion
Are you going to restore a tank if it's badnor get a nice one??

murfman
11-02-2011, 08:29 AM
I have great news! I just talked to the trike owner, and he agreed that a metal tank is the way to go! So, now I need to source a nice metal tank, clean it up, and get it on there and this thing finished before the 19th. Anybody got a nice metal ES tank they would sell me?

Can I powdercoat the tank?

Looking at this on evilbay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-86-87-HONDA-ATC-250ES-BIG-RED-OEM-FUEL-GAS-TANK-PETCOCK-250-ES-ATC250ES-ATV-/140625880861?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20bdf4a71d


The problem with powder coating is the tank would have to be PERFECT because you cant do bodywork and powder over it.

big specht
11-02-2011, 05:53 PM
did you ever think of putting brake lights on it ???

Stonewall
11-02-2011, 08:36 PM
There is a tank headed my way right now thanks to Jeswinehart! It's a pretty nice tank, but it has the normal nicks and scratches and surface rust, so I will be sanding it down and painting it before it goes on.


did you ever think of putting brake lights on it ???

Well, since I'm not keeping it, I don't have any plans for anything fancy on this build. Why would I even want them anyway?

chuckiedog04
11-29-2011, 08:32 PM
any progress?

Stonewall
11-29-2011, 09:05 PM
any progress?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I finished it the Sunday before Thanksgiving, but unfortunatly had issues with photobucket and then left for a week that afternoon. I will try to upload them agian right now.

Stonewall
11-29-2011, 10:21 PM
Here are the pictures I took on the 19th, along with pics of the gas tank after paint.
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0275-1.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0274.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0276.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0278.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0277.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0289.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0288.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0280.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0284.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0283.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0282.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0281.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0287.jpg

The tank was in pretty nice condition when I got it, but it had the normal dings and surface rust, so I sanded it down and put about 4 coats of automotive grade paint matched to the side cover's color. I also Kreem'd it, because it'd been acid washed and had flash rusted. I have a few pictures of it completed and out in the sun, but I haven't transfered them to my computer yet.

1300man
11-30-2011, 06:49 PM
Looks great!

daniel_250r
11-30-2011, 07:11 PM
awesome job you did, only thing i will critic is the paint on the engine its just not my thing. also where did all the new hardware come from? i love shiny bolts!

Stonewall
11-30-2011, 08:53 PM
awesome job you did, only thing i will critic is the paint on the engine its just not my thing. also where did all the new hardware come from? i love shiny bolts!

Thanks, I got all the hardware from Bike Bandit, there are alot of OEM parts still available for these which surprised me. I painted the engine because I don't know of any other way to make it look nice. I degreased it and went over it with some steel wool, then painted it. Plus the paint won't tarnish like the aluminum does.

atc007
11-30-2011, 09:27 PM
Absolutely Beautiful tank! Great job all around. I too ,not a huge fan of that paint on the motor. But just a Very enjoyable build for me! Thank you for sharing!!!!!!

chuckiedog04
11-30-2011, 09:32 PM
Incredible build! best big red restoration ive seen for sure!

SMOKINMO
11-30-2011, 10:43 PM
very nice! kinda thinking about keeping mine now. job well done.

Stonewall
11-30-2011, 11:41 PM
Here are the OFFICIAL finished trike pics!!!!! It's done!! (Except the seat, which hasn't arrived yet; the one on it is from my personal BR, but it's good enough for pics!)

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0290.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0291.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0292.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0293.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0294.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0295.jpg
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0296.jpg

1985BigRed250ES
12-01-2011, 01:12 AM
StoneWall, very nice restoration! where is McCrory located at? I live in Rison, Ar

Stonewall
12-01-2011, 02:16 AM
StoneWall, very nice restoration! where is McCrory located at? I live in Rison, Ar

Rison is south of Pine Bluff right? I live about 20 miles north of Brinkley on 49. McCrory is actully another 12 miles NW of me, but it's still the closest town with a post office lol. I don't visit Pine Bluff very often, but I think it's about 2 hours from me.

350xx
12-01-2011, 03:15 AM
Such a beautiful restoration. Love it.

dougspcs
12-01-2011, 10:27 AM
Nice looking machine Stonewall..now the big question.

Are you afraid to get it dirty?

136347136346

Like this dirty??

Now that I gotta see pics of..a guy that will spend that much time and energy to make his machine look that pretty but still isn't afraid to f&^k it up in the name of fun!!

That gets respect!!!

motordude
12-01-2011, 10:33 AM
Looks amazing, incredible work! It's going to feel like you are cutting onions when it comes time to give it back................unless you are going to keep it now.:naughty:

Fungo Wizard
12-03-2011, 02:22 PM
Very nice! Maybe I should drop mine off for a couple months since I don't have time to ever get to it.

caucker
12-03-2011, 03:46 PM
Beautiful!

captainweezy
12-03-2011, 04:03 PM
INSANE JOB VERY WELL DONE. Thanks for sharing.


Very nice! Maybe I should drop mine off for a couple months since I don't have time to ever get to it.

No doubt! maybe we could car pool or ummmmmmmmm trailer pool!

kprey
12-03-2011, 10:02 PM
looks awesome!! now all you have to do is get it dirty!!!! lol

Jon Boy
12-03-2011, 11:19 PM
wow, very nice. :beer

now all that beautifulness and you didn't even clean the tires? :lol: j/k

trucker101
12-03-2011, 11:55 PM
Here are the OFFICIAL finished trike pics!!!!! It's done!! (Except the seat, which hasn't arrived yet; the one on it is from my personal BR, but it's good enough for pics!)







Great job, thanks for the photos, They show me that it's possible to make mine look like that some day.

coolpool
12-04-2011, 12:40 AM
Absolutely stunning work. Can I ask what paint brand and code you used for the tank? I know nothing of automotive painting and have a few projects looming ahead...eeek!

Stonewall
12-04-2011, 12:57 AM
Nice looking machine Stonewall..now the big question.

Are you afraid to get it dirty?

136347136346

Like this dirty??

Now that I gotta see pics of..a guy that will spend that much time and energy to make his machine look that pretty but still isn't afraid to f&^k it up in the name of fun!!

That gets respect!!!

Personally, no I wouldn't think twice about getting it dirty, but it's not mine to get dirty so I'll leave that to the proud new owner. He plans on using it some for hunting so I would imagine it will get dirty. (Don't worry, it won't get camo'd)

If I can work my way around and do the extreme Big Red build I have in my head next summer, y'all can see an even prettier BR get covered in mud!

Stonewall
12-04-2011, 01:01 AM
Very nice! Maybe I should drop mine off for a couple months since I don't have time to ever get to it.


INSANE JOB VERY WELL DONE. Thanks for sharing.

No doubt! maybe we could car pool or ummmmmmmmm trailer pool!

Wow, I really appreciate that y'all think that highly of my work, but I don't plan on doing any more restorations that I don't get to keep!!

Stonewall
12-04-2011, 01:06 AM
wow, very nice. :beer

now all that beautifulness and you didn't even clean the tires? :lol: j/k

That's what my dad said, and I would've cleaned them if I'd had time. Unfortunatly I didn't get alot of seat time after it was done, I took it on a test ride to make sure everything was working right, then the owner came and picked it up! (And I got a check!)

Stonewall
12-04-2011, 01:08 AM
Great job, thanks for the photos, They show me that it's possible to make mine look like that some day.

All it takes is TLC and MONEY...(Lots of it...) Good luck!

Stonewall
12-04-2011, 01:12 AM
Absolutely stunning work. Can I ask what paint brand and code you used for the tank? I know nothing of automotive painting and have a few projects looming ahead...eeek!

I honestly don't know anything about auto paint either. I just took a side cover to the local paint supplier and they pulled out a book, matched the piece to a color, and put it in a spray can for me. Three coats of that, and several coats of spray can clear coat (also auto grade) later, I have a nice shiny tank!

trucker101
12-04-2011, 03:53 AM
All it takes is TLC and MONEY...(Lots of it...) Good luck! LOL Thanks, the only problem I have is when I have the time I have no money. And when I have the money I have no time. :wondering :D

1985BigRed250ES
12-04-2011, 07:03 AM
Rison is south of Pine Bluff right? I live about 20 miles north of Brinkley on 49. McCrory is actully another 12 miles NW of me, but it's still the closest town with a post office lol. I don't visit Pine Bluff very often, but I think it's about 2 hours from me.

ok cool. yes Rison is south of pine bluff. we have a bigred here at home that has belonged to my grandfather since new and I plan on restoring it soon.

xljimmy
12-19-2011, 11:09 PM
Here are the OFFICIAL finished trike pics!!!!! It's done!!...


http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff507/Stonewall387/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration/IMG_0296.jpg

I love this picture! Great job! :D

Stonewall
12-19-2011, 11:16 PM
I love this picture! Great job! :D

Thanks, man! That's my favorite picture too!

roonie
04-04-2014, 07:59 PM
can i please ask what was the total for $ parts etc. and the total man hrs. Just sooos i know what im up against. thanks and very nice build there.

Stonewall
04-06-2014, 03:15 PM
can i please ask what was the total for $ parts etc. and the total man hrs. Just sooos i know what im up against. thanks and very nice build there.

If I remember right, the parts and paint/powder coat came out to somewhere around $2500. I didn't keep up with the hours I spent on it, but I think it was somewhere between 100-200. Keep in mind I did this build about 2 1/2 years ago, so some of the parts may have gone up. Good luck with your build, and make a thread so you can post up some pictures!

renotrikeguy
09-14-2017, 01:51 PM
Would it be possible to re-post the images of this build? All I am seeing is the "Photbucket" generic image. Or maybe post a link to the images?
Im also trying to restore an 85 250es and would love to use your pics as motivation.

renotrikeguy
09-16-2017, 10:35 AM
Thanks for the tip "The Dude".
I was able to find the complete Photbucket Folder with what looks like all the resto images in it. Just wish Photobucket wasnt such a malware-Ad infested site.

Anyway I hope this link stays good for everyone.

http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/Stonewall387/library/85%20Honda%20Big%20Red%20Restoration?sort=3&page=1

TheRealFatShady
09-28-2017, 04:40 AM
Does anyone still have a way to contact Stonewall? I'd like to ask him why he hasn't returned my $800+ worth of parts, including the ones he used in the build on that photobucket album. And yes I've messaged him many times, months and months apart, even tried registered mail.

Guess this is what you get for sharing parts and knowledge and trying to help the ATC community................