View Full Version : Truck questions
dcreel
11-02-2011, 11:41 PM
Alright, I've been on the lookout for a full size truck to haul stuff and pull a trailer at times. It needs to be a crew cab, I've been leaning towards a crew cab dually with 454/460 and a 5 speed. That might be too much truck 80% of the time.
With my Toyota 4x4 we used the 4 wheel drive a lot during winter.
Does 4 wheel drive add to the gross weight it can haul or pull compared to the 2wd version? Would it be worth it long term to buy a 4x4 truck? I don't foresee any real off roading.
The difference between gas versus diesel. Besides the expense of diesel fuel per gallon vs gasoline. Do you get that much more mpg with diesel vs gasoline?
I've never owned a full size truck, and never owned a diesel besides a Peterbilt and a Freightliner.
Around these parts most used trucks have a ton of miles. Is 100,000 miles alot of miles for a newer diesel truck? What about for a newer gasoline truck?
Thanks in advance guys..
HuffieVA
11-03-2011, 12:27 AM
Doug,
My personal truck is a 4X4 04 Dodge 2500 quad cab with the 5.7 Hemi I avg 14-17 mpg and I'm usually hauling a car trailer, I have a buddy with the same truck but it has the Cummings and he says he gets 18-20 but he usually isn't hauling anything
I think the 4X4 makes a bigger payload difference with the half tons and as you move up to 3/4 and 1 tons it has less of an effect
Also I would stick with a 3/4 Ton unless your always going to hauling heavy, dually's are nice but by the time you have an 8' box and a crew cab and fenders sticking out an extra foot on each side with the turning radius of a U-Haul and parking lots designed for Mini Coopers parking the things can be a real pain in the ass when your just running to town for a few things
Rodd
I will always have a 4X4, mainly because I grew up in upstate NY and know what its like to be stranded in the snow for hours or unable to go anywhere during a storm... I dont often need it in VA but old habits die hard. I do not go off road but tend to use my truck as a tractor around the property skidding logs etc. that if I didn't have 4X4 I wouldn't be able to do so I guess it really depends on your winters and everything you plan to use the truck for. But if you plan on owning it for the majority of its useful life, I believe a 4X4 holds a better resale value as long as its not obvious you played "Micky Thompson" on the weekends...
I know its only an opinion (and I'm kind of Mopar minded) but I would go Cummings if I went diesel. but all the trucks are good trucks.
I think our truck just hit 120,000 and it runs like the day we got it with no power loss or oil use
At work we have all GM products and our fleet plan usually starts selling them off if the require any major repairs after 175K but we have pickups in the fleet running strong at 230K, we are a commercial roofing company so by then they are fairly ratted out and they are abused from day one
trikenut3
11-03-2011, 01:02 AM
Doug ,
Skip the dually ( one trip to the tire store will convince you ) route unless you're hauling heavy loads all the time and as stated parking is an issue as well as anything else associated with having a wider rear track . I have a gas V10 in a Ford F250 with 265,00 miles on it and swear I get 11 mpg either loaded or empty ; makes no difference . If you're not pulling heavy loads go with a 1/2 ton . EVERYTHING on 3/4 ton and larger trucks are more expensive as far as maintenance parts go . Buy a good trailer with trailer brakes and you should be set for many years of trouble free hauling . Gas verses diesel is a tough call ; I like my gas truck and have nothing bad to say about a diesel but just prefer my gas truck . I plow snow and like the fact I don't have to plug in my truck before I go inside . Last thought about 4x2 verses 4x4 . 4x2 can pull more weight due to GVW but ; you have used your toyota in 4 wheel drive in the past and mpg shouldn't be a lot different so I would get a 4x4 ; you live in an area with snow so you may need a 4x4 sometimes .
fabiodriven
11-03-2011, 10:04 AM
I have a buddy with the same truck but it has the Cummings and he says he gets 18-20 but he usually isn't hauling anything
but I would go Cummings if I went diesel.
I'm sorry to nit-pick Rodd, but it's Cummins, not Cummings. I'm not trying to be a douche, but I work around diesel trucks all day and it's just a pet peeve of mine. I correct someone every time I hear it. Lol
I would highly recommend going with the diesel. They are extremely reliable and will pull anything you want, but reliability depends on which diesel you get. The only ones you can truly trust that will run for a long time would be the 7.3 Ford or the 5.9 Cummins. The 7.3's will go for 400k without batting an eyelash. It is not uncommon for a 7.3 to out last the truck it is in. The Ford 6.0 makes a ton of power, but you have to do a lot to those motors to keep them reliable. I would never buy a 6.0. It will leave you high and dry at some point. The GM 6.5's seem to have a lot of injector pump issues. I've had many come through my shop that need injector pumps, at low very low miles I might add. The 6.6 GM's are pretty good engines, they make a ton of power, but they seem to have fuel issues as well. Usually injectors and fuel lines. I've seen it many times. Ford 6.4's suck. They're a pig on fuel and not at all dependable. Nuff said about that motor.
Bottom line for a diesel in my opinion, get a 7.3. Start looking at 7.3 trucks and you'll see their resale value is very high. There's a very good reason for that.
When it comes to gas the Ford V-10 is very dependable and a power house, but she's a thirsty girl. Very, very thirsty. I'm not a huge fan of big blocks in factory trim. The 460 Ford, 454 Chevy, and 8.1 Chevy don't make all that much more power than their small block brethren, yet they consume a lot more fuel. I'm not a big fan of the 5.4 Ford. They're pretty gutless for the most part and not all that dependable. Very finicky motors they are. The 350 small block Chevy is a good motor (If you're a GM guy, I'm not). The 6.0 GM gas motor is great too. All the power of the big block, but a little less gas.
I have a 99 F-350 with two wheel drive. It's a four door dually with a 6 speed stick (I won't buy an automatic). It has the 7.3 and it runs like a top. I absolutely love, love, love the truck. I have no need for four wheel drive, but that's just me. I make it through the winters just fine up here. The 2wd trucks are king on the highway. They ride smoother and have less components to fail, which is exactly why I bought this truck. It has far surpassed my expectations. My engine is bone stock except for a straight pipe (which I would recommend for any diesel). The only thing I would like to do at some point is put a selectable locker in the rear.
I may add to this at some point. I love trucks. :D
Oh, and these guys are right about parking a dually. My four door 8 foot bed truck is a b!tch to park, but I usually don't mind. There are times when it becomes an issue, but I live in the country so it's no biggie. You have to keep in mind though, this is coming from somebody who would have a Mack DM800 for a daily driver if I had the money.
dcreel
11-03-2011, 10:14 AM
John, You do indeed have a sharp truck.. I like the thought of a 6 speed too.. I won't own an auto either..
So where is the difference in price per gallon of diesel vs gas come in? I know diesel costs more per gallon, do you get more miles per gallon out of a diesel? Is the difference really a wash? Especially compared to a big block or v10 gas engine?
I love trucks too.. If I ever win the lottery I will build a 359 Pete daily driver.. lol
fabiodriven
11-03-2011, 10:26 AM
The diesels are much better on fuel, but obviously the price of diesel is more. If you had a V-10 or a big block you will be spending more on gas, guaranteed. My truck is supposedly good for 18-20 MPG, but I've never gauged it. I know it doesn't get that with me driving on the highway. I can't drive 55. I cruise at 80-85, with or without the slide-in truck camper in the back. At a consistent 10-15 lbs of boost, there is no way I'm getting 18 mpg. If you did 60-65 on the other hand, that might be a different story. Like trikenut said, 11 mpg with the V-10. Big blocks aren't much better. I keep my foot out of the go pedal when I'm not on the highway and it's not bad at all.
fabiodriven
11-03-2011, 10:55 AM
Something else to keep in mind in regards to the 4 versus 2 wheel drive- Where my truck has the dual wheels it does better in the snow than a 2 wheel drive single wheel truck would do.
HuffieVA
11-03-2011, 11:07 AM
I'm sorry to nit-pick Rodd, but it's Cummins, not Cummings. I'm not trying to be a douche, but I work around diesel trucks all day and it's just a pet peeve of mine. I correct someone every time I hear it. Lol
No problem, I'm not going to pretend I dont let spell check make decisions for me... lol
HuffieVA
11-03-2011, 11:16 AM
Something else to keep in mind in regards to the 4 versus 2 wheel drive- Where my truck has the dual wheels it does better in the snow than a 2 wheel drive single wheel truck would do.
Good point, I also have a 69 Dodge 1 ton dump I use around the house and occasionally to haul something here and there that will go just about anywhere my 4X4 will go, but its geared like a tank and has a top speed of about 65 under perfect conditions...
jb2wheels
11-03-2011, 12:17 PM
Some things to think about (all my opinion):
This is a long rambling post but things are slow at work and this is a pet peave so this is what you get ;)
Diesels are the end all be all for towing, however:
- diesels add initial cost, significantly in some cases
- diesel regular maintenance is expensive - check out what an oil change costs for example
After 30 seconds under a 3/4 ton truck, I'll never buy another 1/2 ton. Bigger axles, bigger, brakes, better springs, etc.
I've never had a dually but the tool man in me always wants one! I passed on a nice, black on red, 454, ex cab 2wd dually back in the 90s I still think about today.
I lived in Wichita KS for 3 years. I had a 4x4 Chevy. I used 4wheel drive 3 times and all 3 times I probably should not have been driving - the ice was bad and I was driving for giggles!
So you have to ask yourself, do you really need 4x4? If not, you save some $$ and increase tow capacity. Truck rides better, too. However, I think it's harder to find 2x4 full size trucks. Although, you might really need it.
I don't trust modern automatics. I trust PG, TH350, TH400, C6, C4, 727. Maybe even a 904. On the other hand, the E4OD in my van was rebuilt at 120k and still fine at 200K. I wish there was a manual option in the van but there's not and it's not cost effective to convert. And it was EXPENSIVE to rebuild. Burn up a TH400? Toss a few Franklins at it and you're good. Burn up an E4OD/4R100? Better have a 5x larger stack of bills.
I like vans better than pickups, but that's a different discussion. An E350 extended club wagon or econoline with a 7.3 would be perfect. Mine is not extended and has a 5.4 but it's paid for and I can fit 3 full size ATCs in it and I'm too cheap to change. It can and has towed. 10K once, but usually closer to 5k + internal load. From SoCal to Daytona for example. Even had 2 tons of tile in it once. And I can sleep in the back and stay dry.
So, I did a VERY QUICK Craigslist scan here ran some numbers:
CL 2001 F250 PSD listed for $9000
CL 2000 F250 V10 listed for $4000
Assume 10000 miles per year.
Assume V10 = 12MPG, PSD = 16MPG
Assume diesel oil change = $100, gas oil change = $30
Diesel here is $3.51 today, regular $3.01
PSD costs $0.22 per mile for fuel = $2193/year
V10 costs $0.26 per mile for fuel = $2558/year
So, if you drive 10000 miles, the diesel saves you $350 per year.
Of course, in that 10000 miles, you should have 3 oil changes. That's $210 extra so now you're only saving $140/year with the diesel.
It takes 35 years to get the $5000 extra back you spent initially to get the diesel.
I realize any and all assumptions above are ASSUMPTIONS, estimates, etc so use your own numbers and do the math. I'm not making a legal case, I presenting food for thought. And I'm not arguing a diesel is not the best for towing, I'm just presenting my thoughts on TCO.
So ask yourself some questions:
- How much and how often will you tow? A 5.4 or V10 or Hemi or 6.0 might be fine for you. Or, you might really need a diesel, Or, maybe you just want to make black smoke and impress your friends - that's valid too!
- Do you really need 4x4 or do you have some flexibility
Fabio, i don't like to argue on the internet but i have to in this case. You're always right about everything but not this. A 2wd dually with a diesel is absolutely the worst vehicle in the snow that you could find. I've had a 93 dodge extended cab dually with nearly new snow tires and a couple hundred pounds in the bed and was in the ditch within an hour of our october 13th storm several years back. I personally know 3 people with similarly set up trucks that take them off the road in the winter cause they're useless. I also know two people that take off the inside wheels to get some more traction. You don't want surface area in the snow. If there is any snow or slush on the road i put my truck in 4wd. Too much weight up front with that heavy motor and too little in the back for all the torque it makes.
Dcreel- the cost of the diesel vs gad trucks is small. All in all, it probably costs more per mile to run a diesel cause an oil change is about double that of a gas motor. Where you really make out with a diesel is with resale. I just sold my 93 dodge work truck for $6000 with 215K and no bed on it. Even if you wreck a diesel the motor, tranny, and axles are worth a fair amount.
fabiodriven
11-03-2011, 12:47 PM
I also know two people that take off the inside wheels to get some more traction. You don't want surface area in the snow.
You are absolutely correct about not wanting a large contact patch in the snow. That's why people run skinny tires in the winter, that's the right way to do it. You are looking at this the wrong way though. A dual wheel truck has roughly the same size tire as a single wheel truck of a similar size. If two skinny tires push the truck better in snow, than 4 will work even better than two. Now instead of two skinny tires digging down to something firm to get traction, there are 4. The additional two tires are not impeding the other two from doing what they normally would do. What you don't want are fat tires.
I live in Massachusetts and we see plenty of snow up here. Not as much as some, but we get our fair share. I have been driving for about 15 years, 10 of those commercially. I've had 2 wheel drives and 4 wheel drives. This truck does better in the snow than any of my single wheel 2 wheel drive trucks. That's all I know.
fabiodriven
11-03-2011, 01:46 PM
Also, you wouldn't have to look too far around here to find a 2wd dual wheel plow truck. I've never seen anything 2wd single wheel with a plow on it though.
250r_doverdemon
11-03-2011, 03:42 PM
what you need a 73-87 chevy 4 door long box with a 4 inch lift and 33"x12.5" BFG mud terrain with a 1st gen cummins swap maybe a turbo kit. D60 up front and 14 bolt in the rear with 3:73 gearing, the famous gm 3 speed with granny low and a np203 t-case. some traction bars to the rear axle and your set. i bet it would still cost less to build this (if you did it yourself) then to buy a new truck and it would be way more reliable too! the 3:73 is a great towing gear and mild on mpgs but the 35" tires will compensate for that too.. the 4 spd tranny will let you pull anything you hook it onto and is still a bullet proof tranny. i think this would be probably the best truck on the road, its also my dream truck cept it would be a 71-72 chevy suburban cut down to a crew cab (3 door not the newer style 4 door) on a completely custom boxed frame with a short bed fleetside on the back. thats a real truck.
If two skinny tires push the truck better in snow, than 4 will work even better than two. Now instead of two skinny tires digging down to something firm to get traction, there are 4.
If you add the contact patch of four skinny wheels you come up with the same as 2 fatter ones. The sum is = to the whole.
Dcreel, i forgot to mention that most people don't need a 4wd, i dont know about your circumstances. If i didn't need to go offroad with my truck i'd have a 2 wheel drive. Not only do you get better fuel mileage, you get better tire wear and don't have to worry about front axle problems
fabiodriven
11-03-2011, 07:23 PM
If you add the contact patch of four skinny wheels you come up with the same as 2 fatter ones. The sum is = to the whole.
I was thinking about that for a long time after I wrote what I wrote. I'm gonna have to agree with you. For whatever reason though, my dual wheel pickup seems to go better in the snow than my single wheel pickups did.
Doug, i am not going to try to sway your opinion here in either way. But working in a shop I will tell you what I see the most.
Diesel, unless you are towing close to 10000 lbs, I dont see the pratical use for it. They are expensive to fix when they break and the cost of fuel is high.
2002 and up to say 2009...
Chevy 1500's have weak trannies for any heavy towing capacity.
Chevy 2500's have a beefier trans, 6.0 gas engine and can tow quite a load, and that # goes up with 4wd models. But they get about 12MPG maybe 14 unloaded in the city.And you wont find one with 5 speed in any easy fashion. I would stay away from the duramax..Tons of raw power but they have quite a few issues, especially with injectors.
Dodge, weak frames IMO..I dont even consider them and they are about the worst for fuel mileage out of any of them.
Ford F series with gas engines..Ok I guess, if you dont mind blowing spark plugs and threads, out of the heads, and putting exhaust manifolds on them at 50K miles.. You will aslo want to keep coils in the glove box.Strong trannies, but what does that matter if your plugs are hitting the hood? And these repairs are not cheap nor easy to do, and the engines are just a plain PITA to work on. The v10 is gutless for what it is and worthless IMO.
Chevy's..You will do fuel pumps(800$), water pumps and brakes alot on more than other trucks.
I have driven and serviced all of them, with the exception of the diesels.
The Chevys gas models are in for far fewer repairs, and are generally cheaper when they do brake.
IMO, the Chevy's ride nicer with better interior than any of them.
I could go on with a list of little problems with each model, but your are talking repairs that cost less than 200$ in that category of small repairs.
fabiodriven
11-04-2011, 01:17 PM
It's funny to see that you have the same exact issues I see with these trucks every day Rob. The only thing I'll disagree with is the Ford V-10 being gutless. You hit the nail right on the head with everything else though!
Yeah that v10..I drove a few of them, and they dont torque no where near what the 6.0 chevy gas engine does IMO. I guess maybe it is just the whole (V-10) idea subconciously making me think it should pull harder than what they do. But those REALLY suck to work on.
I am bias for Chevy's though..I will say that.
We serviced a county fleet account that consisted of F series and Chevy's. They had no Dodges. Some of those f-250s were dropping ball joints in the realm of 30-40K..Along with the manifolds and spark issues.
The chevys were just getting front wheel bearings and brakes for the most part, a few water pumps and some check engine light repairs which usually was a evap vent valve.
The Goat
11-04-2011, 04:51 PM
Can I be the black sheep and say the 5.7 tundra is a pretty nice truck? Towing isn't what a diesel is, but it is miles beyond what their last v8 was. They still use proper metal pistons in their calipers too, unlike this newer cheap plastic junk.
"import" truck yeah, but you can find one built in Texas, and it'll have less Chinese parts on it than any new ford, dodge, or chevy. It has it's problems, but when pulling apart the interior to run wiring for a friend I was Pretty impressed with build quality. A little higher initial price used, but resale will be outstanding, 4wd is an option, and it'll hit 200k miles with just oil and filter changes.
For me, the 96/97 7.3 is where it's at. Though I have criminally fallen in love with the new dodge cummins combo. Very fine truck, but a little too new for my tastes.
atc200xkid
11-10-2011, 01:32 PM
a 460/454 will burn your wallet dry. my friends got a 97 x cab long bed 2500 with the 454, he gets like 9 to 10, as a daily driver pulling nothing. diesels have a lot of power but are more expensive to buy and maintain but will last for a lot longer than any gas will, 400k+ with good maitance. `a 2wd has more gross towing and load weight cause it weighs 300 to 600 lbs less, so it can tow more right? unless you need a 4wd, dont get one. i have one but i live in wisconsin and i use it alot. id suggest a 00-07 chevy 2500 with the 6.0. good motors, ok milage, good power and parts are every where and easy on the wallet. youll probably never find a 4 door long bed with a 5 speed. and dont get a dually. they are wider, more tires and unless you tow 99% of the time its pointless to have one. they look stupid imo and i hate the super trucker that have a huge truck and say they need it, but my half ton has done 100 times more work than that truck ever will. just my opinion
dcreel
11-10-2011, 02:16 PM
Just to narrow things down some.. The bed needs to hold a 4 X 8 sheet of plywwod.. My parents F150 has that little bed that is in my opinion worthless.. I still have an affinity for duallies... Like this one..
I hate to say it, but I'd rock this like nobodies business..
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs994.snc4/76696_10150336765590118_511370117_15715577_7506282 _n.jpg
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3139/dually.jpg
The reason why I would like a dually is someday I would like to own a toy hauler, and don't want to worry about gvwr's and whatnot. I know that lowering and airbags will lessen how much you can tow safely.
code200k
11-10-2011, 07:23 PM
I love the way a slammed daully looks..The gm 6.0 motor gets about 12mpg loaded or not from what I recall,Finding a 4 door 5 speed can be done but most likely there gunna have the BIG motor..
Lil Earl
11-10-2011, 08:17 PM
FORD, FORD, FORD, and did i mention FORD hahahahaha
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