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View Full Version : The making of an ice racer #3 riVerRaT



riverrat
01-06-2012, 11:29 PM
I'll start from the beginning, first there was a big bang, then the dinosaurs came died and turned into oil, then Arabs came.....j/k

Seriously, I am doing pretty close to my dream build. Most likely by next year I will have the final components, but even the way it will sit now, it will be a top tier build. I would love to get it all together this weekend, but there is a lot of work ahead of me. I have just about all the pieces. Missing a Short track tank (on its way) and the shrouds (also on its way) Going to have to make some radiator brackets. Frame is powder coated, and a whole bunch of shiny new parts, plastic, seat cover, power valve motor, etc. Here are some pics I took tonight, and let's see how much I can get done this weekend. Hopefully she will at least be a roller with the stock tank. The one pic is the photoshop rendering of what I want it to look like.

RIDE-RED 250r
01-06-2012, 11:33 PM
Looking good so far... What engine you going with there?

just ben
01-06-2012, 11:47 PM
looks like you have your work cut out for yourself. why the rush though? There wont be any ice until the end of december

Super350
01-06-2012, 11:58 PM
what is the front tire on the R in the background of the frame?

TatTooL23
01-07-2012, 12:11 AM
what color powder coat is that?? looks nice. i just did a swing arm and hubs in "wheel silver" looks pretty close to the same.

buzzy613
01-07-2012, 09:55 AM
that looks amazing,when you going to run it?

atc007
01-07-2012, 10:02 AM
Awesome !!! Cannot wait to see this come together! I know where that tank is coming from,,I think : )

pantera1975
01-07-2012, 10:13 AM
Looks like it will have nice contrast when you are done.

ezmoney1979
01-07-2012, 10:40 AM
Sweet! Looks nice! I went with a similar frame color on my Tecate.

Bryan Raffa
01-07-2012, 12:05 PM
Get busy buddy.... lookin Great!

tri-Z ripper
01-07-2012, 12:13 PM
Nice job Ant. Going to be one kick ass 250R man we need to step up our game to Jon McKane level Tri-Z's with all these R builds coming up!

riverrat
01-07-2012, 11:34 PM
The motor is a big bore ESR with a power valve. Let's just say the seat says "310" just like some other "310's" I know.
The front tire is a duro on a 10" rim. I accidentally ordered the wrong style and have been using it ever since. It works fine, just cuts through deep snow a little too much for my liking. The rubber is good and hard for holding screws in.

Got a late start today for chores. I had to rebuild the front forks. I polished (well not real good, let's just say it's a racers shine) the two shocks and the top triple. I wanted to send them out to Gk, but ran out of money, and time. Will do it in the future. It's also not a "show" bike and will be raced hard. Pictured is the lonestar +1 swinger. About the only thing I am missing is a durablue axle for the rear, not sure if I can swing it this year. The stock axle with the spacers will work for me this year. I also mounted the billet foot pegs.

Got my shrouds in today, and the short track tank, but the tank is in the post office still, didn't get the mail until it was too late. Anyway, I got plenty work to do. I also bought a SS bolt kit from alloyboltz, I will polish the ones that are most seen.

RIDE-RED 250r
01-07-2012, 11:47 PM
The motor is a big bore ESR with a power valve. Let's just say the seat says "310" just like some other "310's" I know.


Ha ha! I hear ya, my seat still says "250". LOL!

atc007
01-07-2012, 11:50 PM
I love that polish job,looks stock new.

zmpolaristech
01-08-2012, 12:48 AM
Lookin good man, get that thing done SO YOU CAN GET IT TO ELMIRA!!!!!!

riverrat
01-08-2012, 01:15 AM
The polish job is just basically polishing scratches, man those thing were beat up. If I don't make Elmira, I won't go to Jamestown, just a little too far for 8 laps, even though the whole thing is awesome. Wish it was Madison square Garden!

Bryan Raffa
01-08-2012, 02:01 AM
ya really .. how many years did we take a ass whoopin from chris D ....LMFAO!

riverrat
01-08-2012, 03:02 AM
Nothing personal at all...This goes for everyone who is decieving about their engine displacement...whether its a Honda, Yamaha. or Kawasaki.

Why be decieving about what your engine is? I mean, is it realy that fun to beat up on guys with smaller machines that THINK they are running against a bike of equal displacement?... you know, The guy that kicks everyones ass all day with his "310" just to find out its a 370 stroker...Why, where is the pleasure in that? I get a kick out of people accusing me of having a big bore kit in my trail bike, or a stroker crank in my big bore, just cause they're quick bikes. If they were, everyone would know. I would rather race a bike of same displacement, at least then I know how my motor stacks up against the competition. The only reason I can see for decieving people about your engine, is so IF a 250 or 310 hands you your ass, you don't have to hear your buddies tell ya that their 310 mopped up your 370... OR, your trying to sneak more motor into spec class. Just my opinion... and PLEASE Don't take it personal. The only reason I rant is because I just had this conversation with a buddy today, he wants me to build him a stroker ESR, "but don't tell anybody its got a stroker in it"

Again, just a rant.... But get that thing done so we can see how it stacks up against a TRUE 310cc Tri-Z!! :beer

#1 I am not saying what it is, so I am not deceiving.
#2 I will tell you soon enough.
#3 I could swear you told me you had a 330
#4 I am building this to whoop the 450+ quads that I race against here, more than you guys.
#5 there is more to an engine than just displacement
#6 you still have to set your bike up and ride it. All things are not equal. So if I win, it's the engine, and if I lose its the rider?

RIDE-RED 250r
01-08-2012, 10:29 AM
I'm just leaving mine alone because I'm looking forward to messing with unsuspecting 450 riders who wouldn't know a 2-stroke BB kit if it fell out of the sky, landed on their head and started to wiggle! For the most part I am a traditionalist of sorts and usually go against the grain of the "latest/greatest" crowd. Kind of the same reason I still own a 99 Mach-Z 800 triple instead of a 4-poke sled. I can smoke em on the lake, but I didn't spend 12 grand. It's all in good fun.

If I ever can get together for some ice racing with you fellas, (which I'm really itching to) I can assure you what I have will be disclosed.

rjs89ia
01-08-2012, 11:23 AM
this is going to be a pretty sweet trike man, the color transitions will look bada$$ when its done hope to see some pics of the finished product soon.

Mosh
01-08-2012, 11:41 AM
Haha...I had my Halls ported 250R accused of being a Bigbore when I put some smack downs on banshee's, 450's (even the trikes with 450's) and run neck and neck with 295 and 310cc trikes.
It says 250R on the seat and noone ever believes it. No spacer plates or nothin either..
Really dont matter what is on the seat ecxept a skilled pilots ASS...LOL

Nice build looking forward to seeing the finished product..
What kind of shrouds did you land for the ST kit?

brapp
01-08-2012, 12:34 PM
hell my 250r still has a stock bore piston in it just some mild porting done hehehe

riverrat
01-08-2012, 01:06 PM
You know, an Esr 310 kit is supposed to give you about 50-55 hp, but there are good builders who can get that same hp out of a 250. My 310 had no problem keeping up with Chris and John. It really wasn't that much faster than my 250 setup, pump gas vs pump gas.

I really just wanted a power valve to broaden the power band so if I fell out of the power band in a corner while racing it wouldn't be as bad. I also wanted a long rod for the obvious benefits.

If I had the money I would have built a 430 puma motor. Its the big bore class, get over it I say. There was a guy with a 500 last year nobody said nothing about that, why because he wasn't a threat last year, maybe his year he will be. If you want to compare apples to apples then race the 250 class. That will be my next bike, a 250 with stock cylinder.

riverrat
01-08-2012, 11:10 PM
just to clarify, that 500 was a four stroke...a 1979 four stroke...and you pretty much need to double the diplacement of a 4 poke to equal the power of a 2 stroke... And i understand its the Open class, and that ANYTHING goes... That's why there is no need to hide it.

Hide what? Engine displacement? Like I said, there is way more to an engine than just displacement. I never complained about having a 250 racing against big bores and holding my own. I could spend another $1000 tuning this engine without changing displacement and get 10-20 more hp. No one is asking you EXACTLY what you did to your engine. Don't really care, still have to show up and ride it. Talk to me when you are 47 years old too.
My comment about "310 on the seat" wasn't even directed at you, since I thought you had a 330, but find it odd that you jumped in there and got so defensive. It's almost like you are looking for an excuse in case I beat you?
I love the way you ride John, and I love your trikes, they are awesome, but I've been wanting to do this build way before I ever met you, or raced a single day at icefest. My build is because I have always wanted too, and to beat the locals around here. There are several quads around here that would smoke all of us, 4 strokes under 500cc's. There is also a banshee with crazy hp that we race against, there are some really fast racers here where I live. On some days even with my 310, I would be one of the slowest riders here.

I almost wanted to keep it a 310, just so I wouldn't have to hear what you just wrote. But I am satisfied with how I performed with it last year, and I really think if my seals didn't completely blow that day, I might have won that race. That's good enough for me. I just want to stay in one peace at the end of the day.
Anyway, I love the fact the my build thread has sparked this type of conversation, the stuff legends are made of, but I would appreciate if we end this hijack and maybe pick it up in the icefest thread or something. We can talk about engine displacement and hp and all that good stuff. I waited a long time to do this build, and to start this thread, so I would like to stay on topic. Thank you.

Now back to our regular programming....

riverrat
01-08-2012, 11:23 PM
Well I put about 18 hours into it this weekend. I never realized how addictive polishing is, and tiring. I didn't get as far as I like, but very happy with how it is turning out. Came close to my goal. Stupid lonestar swinger had the needle bearings in there, and they were a pia to get out. Put my xsystem bushings in. I was also surprised to find out that the SS bolt kit I bought is not just for the engine, but the whole dam trike! I am running a tap through every thread, and putting anti-sieze compound.

So today I,
Polished the bottom triple,
Re-polished the top triple and shocks
removed my old swinger
Installed the new swinger
Installed the triples and shocks w/ss hardware
soda blasted the seat hardware and painted it
soda blasted the stator cover and started the polishing process
Washed a bunch of parts

Take a look at the pictures, the soda blaster is from harbor freight and it works GREAT!!

riverrat
01-08-2012, 11:27 PM
Haha...I had my Halls ported 250R accused of being a Bigbore when I put some smack downs on banshee's, 450's (even the trikes with 450's) and run neck and neck with 295 and 310cc trikes.
It says 250R on the seat and noone ever believes it. No spacer plates or nothin either..
Really dont matter what is on the seat ecxept a skilled pilots ASS...LOL

Nice build looking forward to seeing the finished product..
What kind of shrouds did you land for the ST kit?

I got the DC plastics shrouds. I have to figure out how to make the radiator brackets, I've never really got a close look at them before. The triple you can just grind the stop.

riverrat
01-08-2012, 11:28 PM
looks like you have your work cut out for yourself. why the rush though? There wont be any ice until the end of december

you be quiet now, ice is coming....or I am going to ice.

riverrat
01-08-2012, 11:29 PM
what color powder coat is that?? looks nice. i just did a swing arm and hubs in "wheel silver" looks pretty close to the same.

Don't know the actual name. It's supposed to look like polished aluminum. It's a two coat powder, silver with clear over it.

RIDE-RED 250r
01-09-2012, 12:03 AM
I can't wait to see this trike when you get it finished!

What length swinger are you going with? Just curious....

riverrat
01-09-2012, 12:29 AM
Ya know, I am not even sure. The guy I bought it from said it was a +2, when I measured it against my stock swinger I got +1. I need to take a better measurement. Typically ice racing you don't even need an extended swinger, as a matter of fact ChrisD had a -1 to put more weight over the rear wheels, but those short swingers kill you on the start, and being that we are only running 4 laps at icefest, start is everything. Plus with the extra power I should be making now, I might need it as well. So there was two reasons to consider getting an extended swinger. Actually I just copy ChrisD, LOL, j/k I have a few tricks up my sleeve that I want to try. But seriously, I learned almost everything from ChrisD, and JohnR who helped me tremendously. All is useless without fresh studs anyway.

ringdingrider
01-09-2012, 01:48 AM
awesome build man. trike should turn out great. i was just at ice races today here in wisconsin. sadly no trikes and only one 250r quad. if my trikes were together i mightve hopped in there but here they only allow trikes in the rubber class n i dont have the right setup for that with the trike im puttin back together right now.

good luck with the build n keep the pics comin

sbjones73
01-09-2012, 05:43 AM
wow looking awesome river rat. and by the way, thanks man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ChrisD
01-09-2012, 02:12 PM
ya really .. how many years did we take a ass whoopin from chris D ....LMFAO!

Hey Mr. Raffa....leave me out of it. LOL. By the way it was only 1 year and I didn't ask to win, I just did.

Thank you to whoever cleaned up this thread. It went way off topic as it looks by the quotes left in.

As far as this complaining about true bore sizes or representations of such goes, it is a moot point. I do believe it's the open class and that means anything goes by my definition. 310, 330, 500, jet engine, whatever. I say good for Anthony. I hope he wins as he looks to be putting in the effort and a powervalve on whatever size motor it is, should be helpful. Anyone can build their bike to whatever it could be and bring it out.....any 420 stroker banshee motor Tri-Z guys out there. :twisted: Enough about that.

I can't wait to see the progress. It looks like it's going to be sweet. I also can't wait to race against him on it....maybe next year.

zmpolaristech
01-09-2012, 06:42 PM
any 420 stroker banshee motor Tri-Z guys out there. :twisted: .

How did you know? LOL!

pantera1975
01-09-2012, 07:26 PM
awesome build man. trike should turn out great. i was just at ice races today here in wisconsin. sadly no trikes and only one 250r quad. if my trikes were together i mightve hopped in there but here they only allow trikes in the rubber class n i dont have the right setup for that with the trike im puttin back together right now.

good luck with the build n keep the pics comin


Which one did you go too?

RIDE-RED 250r
01-09-2012, 10:14 PM
You guys are gonna woop my butt, but I believe I will definitely be going to Ice-Fest next year and giving it a try! Want to meet some of you guys and see all the trikes as much as I want to try racing! LOL!

riverrat
01-09-2012, 11:07 PM
You guys are gonna woop my butt, but I believe I will definitely be going to Ice-Fest next year and giving it a try! Want to meet some of you guys and see all the trikes as much as I want to try racing! LOL!

There will almost always be someone slower than you, and someone faster than you somewhere, so it's all about the fun, and boy we have a lot of it there.

riverrat
01-09-2012, 11:09 PM
How did you know? LOL!

Yea good luck with that one.

riverrat
01-09-2012, 11:17 PM
Well I am just about convinced there wasn't one good part on my original trike. $900 wasn't well spent, $6k later still needing new parts. The front caliper is shot I believe I can't rebuild it, and the rear didn't even have the block off plate on it, I have no idea how it was working all this time. Good thing I never plan on stopping. Going to the local race shop tomorrow to get some brake lines made, and off to flea bay to look for a caliper.

I fixed my seat pan (broke off bolts) by getting some 1/4 20 carraige bolts and grinding the sides of the head to make flat spots, then melting them into the seat pan. I started covering the seat, but I think my electric staple gun isn't cutting it. also picked up my short track tank from the post office, and is in better shape than I expected, some light polishing and it will look great.

If anyone has a good front caliper and can ship right away, let me know.

RIDE-RED 250r
01-09-2012, 11:35 PM
Seat looks great! Mosh's handiwork??

Bryan Raffa
01-09-2012, 11:47 PM
careful now with them power tools,,,haha ... git it raggg!

just ben
01-09-2012, 11:52 PM
is that ceramic coating on the frame?

riverrat
01-09-2012, 11:53 PM
Yes Mosh did the seat, and I am sure would have done a better job of covering it, however I am not done.

Yea Bryan, it was fun to try and grind and take that picture at the same time :idea:

No powder coating, looks like ceramic though.

ringdingrider
01-10-2012, 03:19 AM
Which one did you go too?

ice wars in amherst. freakin outlaw 600 sled class i crazzzy

ringdingrider
01-10-2012, 03:22 AM
Well I am just about convinced there wasn't one good part on my original trike. $900 wasn't well spent, $6k later still needing new parts. The front caliper is shot I believe I can't rebuild it, and the rear didn't even have the block off plate on it, I have no idea how it was working all this time. Good thing I never plan on stopping. Going to the local race shop tomorrow to get some brake lines made, and off to flea bay to look for a caliper.

I fixed my seat pan (broke off bolts) by getting some 1/4 20 carraige bolts and grinding the sides of the head to make flat spots, then melting them into the seat pan. I started covering the seat, but I think my electric staple gun isn't cutting it. also picked up my short track tank from the post office, and is in better shape than I expected, some light polishing and it will look great.

If anyone has a good front caliper and can ship right away, let me know.

let me check in the morning. i may have a front caliper i wont be using for awhile. not 100% if i do or not but i think i got all the brake parts with another roller i had bought last year. ill let you know

amorgan
01-10-2012, 05:10 AM
Even tho i live in south mississippi where there is hardly ever any ice, i been following your build. Just want to tell you... Great job man. Let me know how you like that 310 esr kit with power valve i just ordered a 330 esr with power valve. Every one tells me that is to much motor but hey i weigh 300lbs and i love power. Like i said great job so far. I love the seat. I would love to have one made to say 330r on it so if you dont mind sending me the contact info of who made it thanks alot and keep the pictures comming. LONG LIVE 3 WHEELS

ringdingrider
01-10-2012, 02:26 PM
didnt find a caliper, just remembered that the machine i picked up didnt have the front wheel setup. otherwise id have it sent out today for ya.

riverrat
01-10-2012, 06:57 PM
Thanks for looking. I got a line on one and should have it by the weekend.

The seat is by mrs.mosh here on the boards. Cosmicquads.com

riverrat
01-10-2012, 11:56 PM
Got my needle bearing today in the mail, wet sanded the short track tank a bit, kind of finished the seat, and picked up ss braided brake lines from a circle track race shop today. Oh and also found a front brake caliper, ordered a rebuild kit for both front and back just in case, Kevlar/carbon brake pads. Also ordered the shroud decals and some neat showa stickers for the forks. No pics tonight :(

ceaserthethird
01-11-2012, 01:58 AM
Anthony I'll be shipping your parts out tomorrow afternoon.
The R is look sweet!

JohnR.
01-11-2012, 10:06 PM
Great work on the build Anthony. I'll have to stop by and check it out one night. How about a "NO Ice Fest" down at the beach one Saturday? :)

John

riverrat
01-13-2012, 07:45 PM
Definitely John, we can do a bon-fire and ride some minis around the beach and woods there.

Well I had to install a boiler the last two days so I worked long hours and was beat, not to mention company came over. But I snuck out there today and finished polishing the short track tank, and got it mounted. Now I can start working on the radiator mounts. Also is a picture of the SS brake lines I got.

Sunday night is supposed to get to 5 degrees, maybe we will get some ice. There is still some ice on the south end.

JohnR.
01-13-2012, 08:10 PM
Looking good! Are those #3 or #4 AN lines? They look kinda thick.

riverrat
01-13-2012, 08:41 PM
Not sure, they were the smaller ones, I think the picture makes them look big, they look like yours.

JohnR.
01-13-2012, 09:08 PM
OK then they're #3's. No difference either way, just that the #3 is easier to work with and less expensive.

fire1
01-13-2012, 09:34 PM
Great looking build

amorgan
01-13-2012, 09:45 PM
where did you get the foot pegs they look like billet alum.

aldochina
01-13-2012, 11:16 PM
lookinsweet river!! kinda a good thing there is no ice!! you'd be pullin out the hair trying to get it out there!! atleast this way there is no big rush!! lol! I'm sure youd rather have the ice though!! I'm trying to get John to have me down for a day if and when the ice does come!!

JohnR.
01-13-2012, 11:33 PM
You don't have to try hard, we just need some ice.

riverrat
01-14-2012, 10:49 PM
Yea, we go from here at my house.

The foot pegs are billet, bought them off someone here a few weeks ago, not sure the brand.

Had company over past few days, work got cut off, but I managed to go out there today and do a few things. Mounting the DC plastics shrouds and moving the rads back was a little harder than I thought it would be, and I guess I had a case of builders block, but I got one side almost done, the other side should go smooth. I blasted the front hub, and center cases, and I did some top secret motor work :naughty: a hint about the motor size, I did not send out my cases to a machine shop. :lol:
Got my rear caliper rebuild kit in the mail, and carbon kevlar brake pads. Also got a front caliper from cearserthethird, and a brake pedal that is powder coated silver vein which happens to match the lonestar swinger perfectly :Bounce

RIDE-RED 250r
01-14-2012, 10:53 PM
Yea, we go from here at my house.

The foot pegs are billet, bought them off someone here a few weeks ago, not sure the brand.

Had company over past few days, work got cut off, but I managed to go out there today and do a few things. Mounting the DC plastics shrouds and moving the rads back was a little harder than I thought it would be, and I guess I had a case of builders block, but I got one side almost done, the other side should go smooth. I blasted the front hub, and center cases, and I did some top secret motor work :naughty: a hint about the motor size, I did not send out my cases to a machine shop. :lol:
Got my rear caliper rebuild kit in the mail, and carbon kevlar brake pads. Also got a front caliper from cearserthethird, and a brake pedal that is powder coated silver vein which happens to match the lonestar swinger perfectly :Bounce


Bwaa ha ha ha ha ha!!! (Dr. Evil laugh!) But seriously, I'm pretty sure that narrows it down to 2 possible engines..... Unless you got something REAL sneaky up your sleeve.. :naughty:

riverrat
01-16-2012, 11:20 PM
I have lots of sneaky things up my sleeve, but in the end I always reveal it since we aren't THAT competitive here and usually share everything. Like I said before, at the end of the day I just want to be walking, and able to work and feed my family.

Well, Sunday I did some work. Not today though, too much real work to do. I got the short track mounted with all the brackets. I will be making a thread in the mad scientist lare with step by step instructions. I am just going to redo the top brackets since a better idea popped in my head. It was critical how you mount it, and not that easy. The DC plastic shrouds are also not a perfect fit, and I think I have a way to make sure you get it right. I hope the whole motor and exhaust clear, I won't know until the motor is ready to go in unfortunately. The brackets have to be taken off again and blasted and painted. I also mounted the seat to the fender.

It is very close to being a true roller, and then the motor goes back together, which if I don't need any other parts should go pretty quick.

riverrat
01-17-2012, 02:19 AM
AND, I just picked up somethign real nice, a reworked shock by baldwin PEP shortened for flat track racing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/110807238636?item=110807238636&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123&vxp=mtr
I am phsyched about this shock, my shock was a POS, this one should work even without the lowering link, and not let the trike bottom out.

ceaserthethird
01-17-2012, 04:25 PM
Keep up the good work!

Big Mike
01-17-2012, 04:43 PM
I like how you are making the transition from red to black through the seat cover. Looking good man! Keep it up.

RIDE-RED 250r
01-17-2012, 07:52 PM
I have lots of sneaky things up my sleeve, but in the end I always reveal it since we aren't THAT competitive here and usually share everything. Like I said before, at the end of the day I just want to be walking, and able to work and feed my family.

Well, Sunday I did some work. Not today though, too much real work to do. I got the short track mounted with all the brackets. I will be making a thread in the mad scientist lare with step by step instructions. I am just going to redo the top brackets since a better idea popped in my head. It was critical how you mount it, and not that easy. The DC plastic shrouds are also not a perfect fit, and I think I have a way to make sure you get it right. I hope the whole motor and exhaust clear, I won't know until the motor is ready to go in unfortunately. The brackets have to be taken off again and blasted and painted. I also mounted the seat to the fender.

It is very close to being a true roller, and then the motor goes back together, which if I don't need any other parts should go pretty quick.

That right there is a big part of the reason I am so excited to get into this! Looking great!

riverrat
01-18-2012, 01:11 AM
Thanks guys. Yea the transition was the main part of the design. I always look at color schemes and I like to see a flow in the design. Since my options were limited for tank color, and wanting to be different, that's what I came up with.

Well I did some more work tonight, disassembling the new front caliper I got (which was a b1tch) and cleaning it up, grinding the fins down, and installing the new pads, and anti-seize on the pads pins. Put the *test* front wheel on. Disassembled the radiator mounts, wire wheeled them and painted them. Next year I will powder coat a bunch more stuff, and send some other stuff out for polishing.

Dam I took a picture, but it's not on my phone, oh well tomorrow hopefull I can make this thing a roller. Still got to clean up and transfer the wiring harness, and take apart the rear axle and carrier off the old one.

JohnR.
01-18-2012, 08:18 AM
Just a heads up on the anti-sieze on the pins, its not good to use it especially on the pins where it comes into contact with rubber. Since it is petroleum based it will make the rubber swell and often cause the pins to bind. When working at the dealer I saw it many, many times when guys tried to do a nice job by putting grease or anti-sieze on them and it ended up wiping out a set of perfectly good pads. Also, over time it dries out and hangs stuff up. The correct stuff to use brake lubricant. Its often called Sil-Glyde and will do a great job and last a long time.

John

riverrat
01-18-2012, 10:28 AM
I hear ya, the pins on the front caliper are a little different than the ones you see on a car. I know they have special lube for it. On the 250, there is no rubber, and the pins do not slide like the floating mechanism on a car caliper. The pads slide on the pins, but that doesn't get seized, and I don't have any anti-seize on that part. Just the threads of the pin, and where the pin enters the other side. Those brakes also don't get that hot compared to a car either, so the anti-seize shouldn't dry out and cook itself. I probably won't have to replace the pads for another 20 years anyway, haha.

As far as the rest of the trike, with the SS hardware set I bought there is a note in large letters telling you to use anti-seize on all the SS bolts. Dis-similar metals react with each other and cause them to seize up. I am doing that as well as running a tap through every hole first. This is part of the reason why it is taking me so long, there was a few broken bolts, and a lot of seized bolts that I have to mess with.

JohnR.
01-19-2012, 03:11 PM
I thought I replied to this the other day but I guess not. I am not talking about the pins that hold the pads in place, I'm talking about the slide pins that the caliper moves back and forth on as the pads wear out. One sits entirely inside a rubber sock in the caliper (top one I believe) and the other just has rubber boots on the ends that cover where it goes through the caliper. If you use anything but silicone based grease on those you will have swelling of the rubber parts which will render them unable to make a tight seal to keep dirt and moisture out and it could possibly bind up the caliper so it won't float on its bracket. Just looking out for ya bud, I want that thing to last you a long time.

riverrat
01-19-2012, 11:18 PM
Just looking out for ya bud, I want that thing to last you a long time.

Don't ever change John, I think I mentioned this before, if it wasn't for yours and Chris's advice I wouldn't be where I am at now. I was never a car mechanic for a living, but I can do all my own repairs, and that is one of those that I learned about already, after messing with a ceased pin on one of my cars lol. Also if anyone is reading this, you should never use petroleum based products on any kind of rubber. Also in plumbing, there is plumbers grease, and silicone plumbers grease for the different types of o-rings and plumbing fittings, both are high-temp.

I didn't take apart the slider part of the caliper because it was all in good shape and the rubber was not broken, so why bother fixing it? When I take the caliper off in the near future, I will get a rebuild kit, and have the front polished, then use the proper grease(silicone). Half the reason I started this thread is so people like you and others with all the experience can comment and give me ideas and suggestions, I am all for learning from others, since I got a few million years before I "know it all" :D Keep the advice coming, it is much appreciated.

Well it seems that family duties and work are keeping me away from this thing. I received a lonestar dual row bearing carrier for the rear, but when I look inside I only see one bearing on each side? I think the bearing is thicker than a single row. I forgot what it looks like, and have to take my old carrier apart still. I was under the impression that there was two bearings in there, is it just a fatter bearing? BTW I got one for $75 off fleabay. I polished it tonight and installed it in the swingarm. I also removed the old wiring harness, cleaned it with wd-40, then re-taped it with one long piece of tape. I cleaned the rectifier, and installed the harness. I think all I have to do is install the axle, brake lines, and re-mount the rads, then she is ready for the motor. I feel like I am getting over a hump here.

ChrisD
01-20-2012, 12:29 PM
The double row bearing looks like one fat bearing, not two individual bearings.
More pics please!

riverrat
01-25-2012, 09:25 AM
Ok cool, that's what I got. I ordered some fresh bearings and sleeve from lonestar, and the little brake bracket stay button that was not included in my puschase. Well I haven't got much done, with the snow storm and emergency calls. My PEP shock came in the mail yesterday, just have to clean her up and install. From the looks of it there won't be any ice here on the main lake, so I hope to maybe take a ride up to NH and meet Eddie, let me get this thing done first before I make any plans.

Taking apart my old bike there wasn't a part that wasn't ready for catastrophic failure pratically. I can't believe I was racing that thing. Even the rear bearings that were 3 years old were shot, one of them seems ceased. The bearing carrier had a big split in it.

riverrat
01-25-2012, 11:14 PM
Did some work tonight. Got the shock in. Anyone here ever put a TRX shock in an ATC? It wasn't exactly the same. Check out how low she sits with the adjustable link on it's highest setting.

riverrat
01-31-2012, 01:35 AM
Ugh, 3ww being down at the wrong time, lol. I started missing it. I hope Billy gets it all sorted out without too much effort, it's got to be a pia.

Well I worked on it a lot this weekend, I did so much I can't even remember all that I did! lol.

Tried to get the front brakes hooked up, but the screws were frozen on the front master, and I destroyed the master trying to get them out, so ebay to the rescue, waiting on that one.

Ordered a billet block off plate for the rear caliper, billet case saver, spare rear master.

Took me 4 hours to rebuild the rear caliper !@#$#@!, but I now have rear brakes. I didn't paint the caliper because I want to make sure it's going to work. One piston was ceased. I think the parking brake was grabbing a little too, so I was probably racing with the brakes on, lol. Carbon kevlar pads installed, and rebuild kit put in.

I polished the radiator cap, rear brake reservoir, the hose clamps (yes he said hose clamps LOL), mounted the controls on the bars, new hand grips (black and red to match the scheme), I blasted and painted the hubs, and motor mounts aluminum color (will get powder coated at a later date) mounted the rads again after painting the brakets (will get those powder coated too eventually).

I polished and mounted the PRM grab bar.

The Lonestar swinger was missing some hardware, so I called Lonestar to get it. I ordered a TMdesign roller for the chain, and the caliper bracket stay button :wondering, apparently the stock one doesn't work. While on the phone with Lonestar, I was asking questions about their axle, and he offered me a deal. Said they are usually $450, and said he would give it to me for $400. I then asked about the anti-fade nut, he said they are normally $200, but there was a sale half off if you buy an axle. I told him I wasn't really prepared to spend that since I am pretty tapped out from all this, he then took another $50 off the axle, so you guessed it, I bought a brand new 2+2 Lonestar axle and anti-fade nut for $450 total. A smoking deal if you ask me. Gonna have to wait for the axles to come back from chrome, so I won't see it till next week. Oh, and ask for Heath if you call Lonestar ext 221 and tell him Anthony sent ya to get a good deal on an axle.

I polished most of the clutch cover. I think I am just going to paint the water pump cover, and then look for a billet one later.

Then tonight I cleaned off the bench (finally :Bounce) and started working on putting the motor together. I can almost taste it now. I hope I have everything I need to get the motor together, getting motor parts can take time. One seal or gasket can mess you up.

riverrat
02-03-2012, 10:30 PM
Well busy week, but the motor is 80% together. With any luck it might be in the trike tomorrow.

JohnR.
02-04-2012, 09:06 AM
Good Luck!

riverrat
02-06-2012, 01:15 AM
Well no luck, got up to putting the piston on the rod and the bearing is missing. I only opened the box once so I don't think I dropped it somewhere, either way got to orser a bearing. Everything else is ready to go. TM designs chain glide installed, front brakes done, all aluminum is done polishing for now.


Loosing the bearing doesn't mean anything, Sat night I lost my nephew in a car crash in Puerto Rico, he was only20. Going to have to travel now, so I am not sure where that leaves me on this project, or getting to NH. Prioritys. Pretty sad right now.

Xowner
02-06-2012, 01:22 AM
Well no luck, got up to putting the piston on the rod and the bearing is missing. I only opened the box once so I don't think I dropped it somewhere, either way got to orser a bearing. Everything else is ready to go. TM designs chain glide installed, front brakes done, all aluminum is done polishing for now.


Loosing the bearing doesn't mean anything, Sat night I lost my nephew in a car crash in Puerto Rico, he was only20. Going to have to travel now, so I am not sure where that leaves me on this project, or getting to NH. Prioritys. Pretty sad right now.

Damn man sorry to hear this! This kinda stuff just takes the wind right outta you for doing ANYTHING! Best wishes to you and your family!

riverrat
02-10-2012, 11:11 PM
Yea back from Puerto Rico, that is just about the saddest thing I've ever gone through in my life. He actually crashed his car while street racing right into the funeral home wall. So his body was being viewed literally 20ft from where he died. Gonna have to dedicate the rest of this build to him. RIP Jeffrey. That will help me focus a bit, pretty heart broken right now.

Got back out there tonight for a little bit. Got my missing bearing while I was away, and installed the cylinder. Motor is ready to go into the bike. Just mounting up the rear tires. For testing I am just going to use the stock gold rims which are pretty beat up. I need a set of silver rims for messing around off the ice. The only part I am missing is the lonestar axle which should be here soon. But I can use the stock axle for now, it's easy enough to swap out once it gets here. Gonna put some hours in it tomorrow. I will have some pics tomorrow.

aldochina
02-10-2012, 11:36 PM
sorry about your nephew man!! lost my brother at 19! tough to deal when they go that young!! I'll say a prayer for his family sun at mass! Hope the build takes your mind off things a bit. I'm sure he would be honored with the build dedication. Look forward to seeing it back on three!!

JohnR.
02-11-2012, 09:15 AM
Glad you made it back safe and sound. What a senseless waste of a life. It looks like you'll have plenty of time to get it ready for the ice unless you are still going up to NH this winter.

John

riverrat
02-11-2012, 04:21 PM
Going to try, don't know yet.

I had the trike in a craftsman job vise, and all the while I was wondering how I would get it down. I just imagined putting the rear wheels on and then letting it rotate to the ground rear wheels first. I put the wheels on last night, and this morning, it rotated all by itself, walked into the garage to my trike doing a wheelie, awesome! :acr No harm done.

Did some more work today, off to do chores but some teaser pics of where I am at.

riverrat
02-12-2012, 01:12 AM
OMG so close. Just need to bolt on a few more things, and she is ready to fire up. It won't be done, but it will be ready to race. During the year I am going to take care of a few more details, like polishing the front hub, rear shock, calipers, etc. Want to powder coat the motor mounts, and rad mounts.

This thing has got some compression! It's pretty dam tough to kick over, I hope it doesn't kick back on me :rolleyes:

riverrat
02-12-2012, 10:17 PM
Boy a few more things takes forever, haha. Well I actually drove it tonight, sun had set and I have no light on it so just a quick blast. We had a dusting of snow, so I couldn't really tell how much power it had, but the throttle response was instant with the power valve. I also have to jet it. I went up in my jetting, I don't think I had too. I often wondered about that, just because it's a little bigger engine, why would it need much different jetting? The carb was set up to deliver a proper fuel/air ratio.

I had a brand new ignition module from rmstator, but I think there is some confusion in the wiring harness with that, I will have to call them again. I remember having to switch two wires when I got the rmstator and used it with the stock ignition. Anyway, I put the stock ignition module back in, and it started the second kick. Everything seems kosher, so tomorrow I should get some more break in time.

I don't like the gold rims, but that's all I have for tires to run on the street and dirt. Going to get a set of douglas rims with duro tires for local dirt riding, or possibly some flat track racing up north on dirt. I would like to give that a try.


http://youtu.be/FZwnHHGkomo


(http://youtu.be/FZwnHHGkomo)

JohnR.
02-12-2012, 11:46 PM
Looks great Anthony. I found I didn't change jetting too much from one engine size to another and actually run a smaller jet now on my 330 with a 40.5mm carb than I did when I had a mild 250 with the 39mm version of the same carb. The only explanation I can think of is that the larger engine is drawing more fuel through the jet since its pulling more air through the venturi of the carb. I often ran a 200 in my 250 and now find myself around a 190 with the 330. Now we just gotta find a bracket and get that front brake hose behind the forks where it belongs. :cool: How do the fronts feel with that new hose? It made a big difference on mine and then when I went to the modern sport quad master it was another huge leap forward in brake feel. Dollar for dollar that master was one of the most noticeable improvements I ever made.

John

riverrat
02-13-2012, 07:06 AM
I have the bracket, well the lower one that protects the hose from the tire, but the fitting on the brake line that I got from Berharts doesn't allow me to really run the hose in the inside there. I am nto too worried because I won't be running through any trees with it, so I won't catch it on anything. I am missing the bracket that goes to the two holes there, never had it, and I don't even know what it looks like. That's on the list.

I can't compare to my old brakes since they were almost non-functional. That's why I did so bad in the road course 2 years ago, I couldn't stop really. One piston was ceased, and there was a ton of grease in the caliper that kept leaking down on the the disc, even though I cleaned it twice. I have no idea where it all came from. But I got a used caliper now and it seems fine.

I was also thinking of getting a different front master, didn't know which one I should try. On the wish list too is to get my front forks professionally done with even shorter, but stiffer springs. Got to find someone who can do that. The rear shock I got is awesome, it sits perfect without using the lowering link and it only compresses a couple inches, so now I can't bottom out my fenders on the studs. I alsmot bottomed out the studs on my trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro once hanging off trying to get some traction. I remember the studs hitting the rear fender and my butt right on top of that, scared me.

JohnR.
02-13-2012, 08:22 AM
I know a tree won't get it but as you well know rubbing is racing. :) For the master you can use any of the 450s', YFZ, TRX, or LTR. I found the LTR to be in the least demand therefore the least expensive so I went with that one. I've got some holes in my Carharts and gouges in my old riding boots from meeting the studs a few times. One of the reasons my fenders are cut is to avoid them getting chewed up and tangled in the tires. Can't wait to see you ripping around on it. At some point this spring I'm going to head up to Lost Trails' new site in Scranton with my 4x4 and bring my R along. $35 for the day for the rider, no reg or insurance required, and trikes are welcome.

John

riverrat
02-13-2012, 12:00 PM
Oooo, that sounds like a plan. I am not sure I want to ride this thing on trails unless they are fairly flat and clean, and wide open ;) Now with the shock it is a bit involved to switch to trail mode. I'll bring the 200X.

super350 just pm'd me with the bracket I need, which reminds to thank everyone.
I want to thank a bunch of people for helping me out with all the parts to get this thing going, and the inspiration too:
ChrisD
JohnR
super350
Mrs.Mosh cosmicquads.com
BillyGoLightly :http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/123031-ATC-TRX-250R-exhaust-pipe-mount-hangers-in-stainless-steel.-COLORIZED!
Tattool23 stickers
ceaserthethird
dirtface (thank you so much for the tank!!)
250rmanfmf (awesome deal on the pipe and footpegs!)
RID3R
Xowner
x.system swingarm bushings http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/98483-Swingarm-Bushings

ebay......LOL

If I missed anyone, let me know I will add you to the list, and if I didn't leave you feedback, just pm me your feedback thread! It's been a crazy month.

riverrat
02-13-2012, 05:50 PM
Took it out today for a few minutes, boy that power valve power band is so smooth, it's like a 4stroke and a two stroke combined, very drivable.

riverrat
01-19-2013, 09:47 PM
Ok, 1 year later I get to hit some ice! I've done more work to it. Some of that work will be revealed at icefest. I found a lake upstate more that had ice and managed to get 25 laps on it today. Felt good, but I am a bit rusty after 2 years of not racing.

riverrat
01-20-2013, 04:27 PM
Here is a video of it on the ice. Watch it walk away from the 660 raptor, without even really trying.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHclFioebSI

riverrat
02-27-2013, 11:05 PM
So an update after the 2013 season. I never did any official racing. But had fun riding and tuning. Since it doesn't matter anymore, I will let the cat out of the bag and say that the motor is a 370 power valve motor running on alky. Originally it was running on gas, but decided to try alky. I got a 44mm lectron carb set up for alky and added a fuel pump. Without dyno time, I really couldn't tell the difference, but it seemed to run good. However, switching to the larger carb I lost a lot of bottom end. Well, I bought the alky so I just ran it.

I aslo got the stuff to convert the lectron to gas. I tried to do that this Monday. Couldn't really get it right, I think I need a different metering rod. Was pretty close. So on alky, I ran 85mph (GPS) on hard ice. When I switched to gas, it ran 74. Wasn't happy at all. I decided to stick my original 38mm flat side back on gas in, and low and behold, I GPS'd 84. I later ran faster, but the GPS did not initialize. The power band was smooth and it seemed to run better than the 44 all around. My guess is that the carb was just too big. It might be fine for a drag motor, but not for the porting I have.

Getting the lectron to fit was another delima. I ordered a large intake manifold, but it really put the lectron in the wrong spot, and then the gas tank wouldn't fit on. Not happy with either rubber intake, and how they fit, or how they matched up tot he reed block, I made my own aluminum intake. I port matched it to the lectron and the reed block.

I decided to go with the 370 because of a few reasons. One was money. It was actually cheaper for me to sell my 310 and buy the 370 than try and stroke my 310. ESR gave me a great deal. I wanted a few more cc's, and a PV, so I decided to go that route. The quads we race around here are very fast, and even with the 370 have a hard time keeping up with some of them. there is some serious machines around here.

The plan was to get some dyno time in before this race season, but it never happened. So, soon we will get some dyno time in and try some different combinations. Next plan is to either have a pipe made, or make my own pipe, better suited to my combo.

Oh BTW, alky was a bit of a pain. Lot's of things to consider, and once the temps go below 25, starting it cold was a real pain. I also went through a tank of fuel in about 10 min. I may try it again, but with a smaller carb, will have to see. Hopefully the dyno will reveal whats wrong with the 44, and if it's just too big for my motor.

Got some good video, just have to spend some time editing.

3 Wheel Drive
03-01-2013, 11:56 AM
Here is a video of it on the ice. Watch it walk away from the 660 raptor, without even really trying.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHclFioebSI

Teaching Quads A Lession, I like it!!!:beer