How do we change this thing around?

[riverrat]

I am just about sick of it. If I hear another story of how someone tells someone else that they ride ATC's (aka 3 wheeler) and they get that blank stare followed by the saying, "aren't those things banned?" ,"those things are dangerous", aren't they illegal?" etc, etc.

This is the day and age of the internet where we can get a message out fairly easy. Here is what I am proposing, isn't there like 20,000 members here? What if we finish up the work on the original cspc reports that they used to get 3 wheelers banned, and make a video with all the pertinent information, done halfway professional, and we all post it to youtube, and every other self media venue we can think of and get the word out? If we all band together we could turn this dumb thing around. This is just a suggestion, and I am open to other suggestions. Come on you f***n rednecks come up with something good! Let's get viral!

[ezmoney1979]

To me, it adds to the appeal. "Those things are dangerous", well hell yeah they are, thats what makes them fun to ride:beer

[Xpress]

Would be quite hard to change peoples opinions, especially since most get firmly seated by anything they see and hear on TV.

It's a wonder why people watch the news or read any form of news media today...

[riverrat]

"Dude's, it's like the occupiers. They actually have some really great things that they stand for, yet they don't get the media attention they deserve, they always get bad press. That's because the media (rich people who own the media) is in control and threatened by what they stand for. But now because of the internet, we can know the "real deal". Let's face it, the whole thing (3 wheeler ban) is BS, based off lies, and totally un-American. When are we going to stand up for what is right? We can do it now, because we have a voice, and a way to get it out. A viral video is very powerful. If enough of us work together, over time, it will work.

How many people have you convinced otherwise? I've told hundreds, if not thousands of people. I've put it into perspective, and now their attitude has changed about it. I have debated in forums about it. What the government did to us is BS, and what they continue to do with everything else is BS. We don't need a government to protect us from us. What gives them the right to tell us what to do?

I laugh because their are people out there who want to legalize assisted suicide, yet three wheelers are illegal? wtf. Save a tree, kill a baby, wtf. Let me ride you stupid people. Fight fire with fire.

[bkm]

The same close minded people who think they should be banned are the same type of people who are against firearms. They use the idiots who abuse them against the people who are responsible with them. Until you remove every F#cktard from the back of one of these bikes, you will be fighting a uphill battle. Just like a gun, trikes don't kill people, stupid people kill people.

It always comes done to acceptance of responsibility and in this day and age of Lawyers, who are now the ones running the country, you no longer have to responsible for your own actions. Just blame someone else or sue the manufacturer of the product you have been abusing.

[Dirtcrasher]

This is why Rhianna still likes Chris Brown :lol:

[Vealmonkey]

Wow. What's the big deal? You have to be socially accepted or socially justifiable to have fulfillment in your life? Welcome to the world. Not everyone likes your trike or your music or your political affiliation or your religious beliefs, so what??? Do you think I like your rally cry of "come on you f------ rednecks? Do you agree with and justify what everyone else likes? We are all different, for good or for bad. If you really have to have some kind of worldwide acceptance, you are going to have a rocky road ahead of you. If the only way you are going to have fulfillment in life is to educate the world on 3 wheeler, than what a waste. Ride your trike. Have fun. Put your efforts to a much more notable cause, if that is really what you need to do. If you have a family, then be a responsable husband/ parent. Raise your kids to be responsible and decent people. Riding trikes is a hobby and meant to have personal enjoyment. Don't confuse that with the thought that you have to educate the world, cause it won't happen. Let people stare slackjawed if they must. This is your hobby, not theirs. Lots of people have hobbies that you probably aren't into, but that doesn't mean that they have to conduct a personal campaign to get you into their hobby or their way of thinking. Damn dude. I thought I had issues. LOL And by the way, if you think the members on here are a bunch of "f------ rednecks", then you are the one that needs help. I've met lots of people on here, that are really great people. People with nice husbands and wives and children and people that are really serious into the hobby. They may not take too kindly to be called "f------ rednecks" and I know I don't appreciate you very much lumping them into that category. And if it's your idea of some kind of warped humor, not funny.

[Chazz of Blades]

Wow. What's the big deal? You have to be socially accepted or socially justifiable to have fulfillment in your life? Welcome to the world. Not everyone likes your trike or your music or your political affiliation or your religious beliefs, so what??? Do you think I like your rally cry of "come on you f------ rednecks? Do you agree with and justify what everyone else likes? We are all different, for good or for bad. If you really have to have some kind of worldwide acceptance, you are going to have a rocky road ahead of you. If the only way you are going to have fulfillment in life is to educate the world on 3 wheeler, than what a waste. Ride your trike. Have fun. Put your efforts to a much more notable cause, if that is really what you need to do. If you have a family, then be a responsable husband/ parent. Raise your kids to be responsible and decent people. Riding trikes is a hobby and meant to have personal enjoyment. Don't confuse that with the thought that you have to educate the world, cause it won't happen. Let people stare slackjawed if they must. This is your hobby, not theirs. Lots of people have hobbies that you probably aren't into, but that doesn't mean that they have to conduct a personal campaign to get you into their hobby or their way of thinking. Damn dude. I thought I had issues. LOL And by the way, if you think the members on here are a bunch of "f------ rednecks", then you are the one that needs help. I've met lots of people on here, that are really great people. People with nice husbands and wives and children and people that are really serious into the hobby. They may not take too kindly to be called "f------ rednecks" and I know I don't appreciate you very much lumping them into that category. And if it's your idea of some kind of warped humor, not funny.


I'm a "f------ redneck" and proud of it. I don't think you understand the concept enough to start bashing on 'Rednecks' there Veal. Seems like you're saying that all rednecks have bad families, lives, and so forth.


I think it's a great idea, the more people who understand the hobby, the easier in the long run it would be to restart the production. You honestly think a handful of trikers alone can do it when the majority of the general public don't understand? I support the idea of making some videos based more toward showing people our sport, hobby, and to some of us, careers.

I hate to say it, but most of the time the general public is the biggest factor in any major shift, acceptance of trikes included.

[just ben]

If I I not mistaken(I could be) I thought the decree was a ten year deal. We are past 20 now. If the big 4 thought it was profitable we would be riding brand new trikes. Even if all 20,000? members (most gone and forgotten) whats that to the big companies? nothing.. Assuming 20,000 people signed a petition,how many are going to buy a brand new machine?I bet if you go to any of the big 4 with 20,000 prepaid orders they will come up with something for you. pony up bud!

[mohadib]

Meh. Who cares? That's just one less person buying up all the good parts on flea bay

[dksix]

Meh. Who cares? That's just one less person buying up all the good parts on flea bay

Agree'd. I have enough problems finding good trikes without all the quad riders giving them consideration. Trikes being mainstream is history, the big 4 will never produce them again. There may be enough enthusiast to support a few custom/production conversions, like TPC but there will never be new ones in show rooms across the country again. As far a changing the public's perception of them being dangerous, they are (for the average person). I prefer trikes to quads but I have far less worries letting someone ride my quad than I do a trike. The few people left who prefer trikes to quads are enthusiast, for the most part. And as such they/we are going to take the time to learn what our choice machines can and can't do. In general, the average person isn't and those are the ones who ended up causing the problems to start with. Does anyone see getting that group of people back involved in our hobby again. I'm sure like most of you, I've heard them all: "aren't those outlawed", "those things aren't safe", "do you have a death wish", "no way I'd ride one of those". Like many other hobby's, if you have to explain the appeal to someone....they aren't going to understand.

[Vealmonkey]

Riverrats delivery of the whole idea just rubbed me the wrong way. Why didn't he just say something like "fellow board members"? And for those considering themselves "rednecks" or "outlaws" or whichever term that you enjoy being referred to as, I didn't mean to offend anyone. But, for someone to come on here and preach on how they want to fight against other peoples' ignorance of a subject that they don't really know anything about, then to arbitrarily lump people into a category of anything other than triking enthusiasts or triking hobbyists, well, who really needs the educating???? If you think you need to fight some kind of battle, then go ahead and fight it. But don't get on here trying to stir up some stupid crap to get trike enthusiasts to try and rally around something that in the end is really no big deal.

[TimSr]

Riverrats delivery of the whole idea just rubbed me the wrong way. Why didn't he just say something like "fellow board members"? And for those considering themselves "rednecks" or "outlaws" or whichever term that you enjoy being referred to as, I didn't mean to offend anyone. But, for someone to come on here and preach on how they want to fight against other peoples' ignorance of a subject that they don't really know anything about, then to arbitrarily lump people into a category of anything other than triking enthusiasts or triking hobbyists, well, who really needs the educating???? If you think you need to fight some kind of battle, then go ahead and fight it. But don't get on here trying to stir up some stupid crap to get trike enthusiasts to try and rally around something that in the end is really no big deal.

I was left with the same impression as you. Using "occupy" as am example highlighted what was wrong with the whole idea. You take a bunch of angry people with signs, who cant tell you what it is they are trying to accomplish other than demanding repsect, and leaving behind destroyed parks and huge list of criminal activities and behaviors that they tell you to ignore because it doesnt represent them does not help your cause. Telling them in a video that trikes are safe will not convince them. You will have to SHOW them over a long period of time, and even harder, you have to convince others to do the same.

Respect is earned over many years of doing the right things when you are in the public's view, and years of work to build a good reputation are easily destroyed in minutes by a single individual who claims to be "one of you" and represents you poorly. There are lots of positive things happening out there, and lots of positive videos on youtube, but the greatest accomplishments are not happening on internet forums, and are therefore pretty much ignored by the internet community. Fact is you post a group of trikers racing for a crowd of 5000 people and you'll get 100 views in a year and a bunch of negative comments, but you post a video of two helmetless guys riding double on a trike and running down the road from the cops with beers in hand, and you get 1000 views the first day, and those same people, who complain about the unfair reputation of trikers will post a bunch of comments heralding the achievements of the great outlaws, and if you dare suggest trikers need to clean up their own image by simply using discretion as to what they present to the public, prepare to suffer the wrath of being a Nazi Puritan.

When people want to complain about how they are perceived by an "ignorant" public, they should look at what they present to the public from which the public has formed their conclusion. When people complain about how they are personally being portrayed unfairly, they can often find the guilty parties by reading their own facebook page.

Riverrat,
Good luck with your viral video that will undo the effects of all those other videos out there glorifying the negative stereotypes. I think you'll gain a lot more respect by simply being consistantly repectable over a period of years, and avoiding being confused with those who are not. I don't think a blast of profanity to rally the troops is a very motivating start.

[Mosh]

I dont get the replies or remarks about the ban. Maybe 1 out of 30 people will actually say something to that effect, and I just educate them a little and be on my way.

I dont really care what the "generalized' public thinks. In most cases they easily demonstrate that they live with their heads up their you know what, and are victims of being hypnotized like zombies with general perception of the surroundings they are trapped within.

Let them be ignorant. The minute trikes become popular again, is the same time that more fools ride them without respect and cost us more money for them.
And going with that, the more people on trikes, is just more chances of the wrong people being on trikes and further damaging the reputation of trikers.

[HuffieVA]

If I I not mistaken(I could be) I thought the decree was a ten year deal. We are past 20 now. If the big 4 thought it was profitable we would be riding brand new trikes. Even if all 20,000?.....

Technically there is a new glitch, yes the decree has expired but hidden in the depths of the "Lead Toys Law", the one that was so well thought out it technically banned anything with a battery designed for anyone under 12.... (which has since partially been fixed) is a small blurb....

Sec. 1420.4 Restrictions on three-wheel ATVs.

Until a mandatory consumer product safety standard applicable to
three-wheel ATVs promulgated pursuant to the Consumer Product Safety
Act is in effect, new three wheel ATVs may not be imported into or
distributed in commerce in the United States.

The only real out (loophole) is:

Sec. 1420.2 Definitions.

In addition to the definitions in section 3 of the Consumer Product
Safety Act (15 U.S.C. 2052), the following definitions apply for
purposes of this Part 1420.
(a) All terrain vehicle or ATV means:

[[Page 67387]]

(1) Any motorized, off-highway vehicle designed to travel on 3 or 4
wheels, having a seat designed to be straddled by the operator and
handlebars for steering control; but
(2) Does not include a prototype of a motorized, off-highway, all-
terrain vehicle that is intended exclusively for research and
development purposes unless the vehicle is offered for sale.


You can't sell new ones, but you can sell used ones (no specific build date requirement), you can sell/install conversion kits, and even build them from scratch for research/development purposes.

Plenty of room for bending the law without breaking it...

And if someone gets CPSC to accept a safety standard its a free for all.... (They will likely agree to that right after they bring back lawn darts)

The fact is, none of the big companies are interested in investing money and trying to market a product with such a tarnished reputation (it doesn't matter if the reputation was deserved or not, that's just the way it is)

If you want to fight a battle that's still winnable support the manufactures that still market 2 Strokes, and get the message across that the riding public wants bikes/ATV's that are easy and affordable to work on

[riverrat]

Wow. What's the big deal? You have to be socially accepted or socially justifiable to have fulfillment in your life? Welcome to the world. Not everyone likes your trike or your music or your political affiliation or your religious beliefs, so what??? Do you think I like your rally cry of "come on you f------ rednecks? Do you agree with and justify what everyone else likes? We are all different, for good or for bad. If you really have to have some kind of worldwide acceptance, you are going to have a rocky road ahead of you. If the only way you are going to have fulfillment in life is to educate the world on 3 wheeler, than what a waste. Ride your trike. Have fun. Put your efforts to a much more notable cause, if that is really what you need to do. If you have a family, then be a responsable husband/ parent. Raise your kids to be responsible and decent people. Riding trikes is a hobby and meant to have personal enjoyment. Don't confuse that with the thought that you have to educate the world, cause it won't happen. Let people stare slackjawed if they must. This is your hobby, not theirs. Lots of people have hobbies that you probably aren't into, but that doesn't mean that they have to conduct a personal campaign to get you into their hobby or their way of thinking. Damn dude. I thought I had issues. LOL And by the way, if you think the members on here are a bunch of "f------ rednecks", then you are the one that needs help. I've met lots of people on here, that are really great people. People with nice husbands and wives and children and people that are really serious into the hobby. They may not take too kindly to be called "f------ rednecks" and I know I don't appreciate you very much lumping them into that category. And if it's your idea of some kind of warped humor, not funny.


You make no sense whatsoever, and completely contradicted yourself.

[riverrat]

Riverrats delivery of the whole idea just rubbed me the wrong way. Why didn't he just say something like "fellow board members"? And for those considering themselves "rednecks" or "outlaws" or whichever term that you enjoy being referred to as, I didn't mean to offend anyone. But, for someone to come on here and preach on how they want to fight against other peoples' ignorance of a subject that they don't really know anything about, then to arbitrarily lump people into a category of anything other than triking enthusiasts or triking hobbyists, well, who really needs the educating???? If you think you need to fight some kind of battle, then go ahead and fight it. But don't get on here trying to stir up some stupid crap to get trike enthusiasts to try and rally around something that in the end is really no big deal.

I wasn't implying everyone here was a redneck. I was born and raised in NYC, so technically I am not a redneck. I don't have a problem with rednecks or anyone else, unless they attack my personal freedoms, which would be riding trikes.

[riverrat]

I was left with the same impression as you. Using "occupy" as am example highlighted what was wrong with the whole idea. You take a bunch of angry people with signs, who cant tell you what it is they are trying to accomplish other than demanding repsect, and leaving behind destroyed parks and huge list of criminal activities and behaviors that they tell you to ignore because it doesnt represent them does not help your cause. Telling them in a video that trikes are safe will not convince them. You will have to SHOW them over a long period of time, and even harder, you have to convince others to do the same.

You are the perfect example of what I am saying here. You are truly mis-informed by the main stream media about the occupiers. They are in fact very organized, and 99.9% of them do not cause trouble.



Respect is earned over many years of doing the right things when you are in the public's view, and years of work to build a good reputation are easily destroyed in minutes by a single individual who claims to be "one of you" and represents you poorly. There are lots of positive things happening out there, and lots of positive videos on youtube, but the greatest accomplishments are not happening on internet forums, and are therefore pretty much ignored by the internet community. Fact is you post a group of trikers racing for a crowd of 5000 people and you'll get 100 views in a year and a bunch of negative comments, but you post a video of two helmetless guys riding double on a trike and running down the road from the cops with beers in hand, and you get 1000 views the first day, and those same people, who complain about the unfair reputation of trikers will post a bunch of comments heralding the achievements of the great outlaws, and if you dare suggest trikers need to clean up their own image by simply using discretion as to what they present to the public, prepare to suffer the wrath of being a Nazi Puritan.

100% correct. we have been doing that for years, and have the evidence to prove it, that kind of information would be put into the video.



When people want to complain about how they are perceived by an "ignorant" public, they should look at what they present to the public from which the public has formed their conclusion. When people complain about how they are personally being portrayed unfairly, they can often find the guilty parties by reading their own facebook page.

It is not the public as much as how the government perceives us. Since we are the people, we should start with the public.



Riverrat,
Good luck with your viral video that will undo the effects of all those other videos out there glorifying the negative stereotypes. I think you'll gain a lot more respect by simply being consistantly repectable over a period of years, and avoiding being confused with those who are not. I don't think a blast of profanity to rally the troops is a very motivating start.


I was drunk when I wrote that last night. Instead of seeing the good in what I wrote, you and veal decided to focus on one word and something you perceive as bad. Get over yourselves. Just add constructive criticism. It is time we fight back. But I won't do it without the "board members" help.

[ezmoney1979]

I was drunk when I wrote that last night.
A thread was started here recently, asking what ATC stood for. Alcohol Treatment Center came to mind :beer

[DasUberKraut]

I can't believe I just wasted my time reading this thread. I want a refund.

[ATCcountryboy]

I'm a "f------ redneck" and proud of it. I don't think you understand the concept enough to start bashing on 'Rednecks' there Veal. Seems like you're saying that all rednecks have bad families, lives, and so forth.


I think it's a great idea, the more people who understand the hobby, the easier in the long run it would be to restart the production. You honestly think a handful of trikers alone can do it when the majority of the general public don't understand? I support the idea of making some videos based more toward showing people our sport, hobby, and to some of us, careers.

I hate to say it, but most of the time the general public is the biggest factor in any major shift, acceptance of trikes included. I agree, we may not have to do something over the top, but we could just start doing things that show that show that trikes are not so bad. We don't need to go right for the throught just yet, but we could just put some ideas out there and work our way up. What good does it do if you dont try? I think it would be good to start putting up some videos about trikes, it is sure as heck better than nothing. P.S. Im a REDNECK and proud of it also, people got this funny idea that we run aroud and be a bunch of idiots. Rednecks don't take personal freedoms, we stand for them! Long live rednecks!

[ezmoney1979]

Long live rednecks!
Yeeeeee haaaawwww, interbreeders unite!!! You guys are killin me:) And I have no idea of what you are talking about with posting videos and such, do you mean the ones that are on youtube already?

[dcreel]

My family and I do our best EVERYTIME we ride to shine a positive light on 3 wheeling. We don't drink and ride, ride on paved roads (unless designated for atv travel). Whether we are at the dunes, trails or our own backyard we ride courteously, answer any questions and have even gone so far as to offer rides to experienced riders of other off road vehicles. If there are people in need we are always there to offer a hand. I (We) have been doing this since the 80's.. That is good enough for us.

If we ALL conducted ourselves responsibly back in the 80's, this would all be a moot point..

There are members of this site who think it's okay to ride without any working brakes, or ride their 3 wheeler drunk.. I will never be lumped in with those knuckleheads...

[ATCcountryboy]

[QUOTE=ezmoney1979;1107805]Yeeeeee haaaawwww, interbreeders unite!!! What the heck is that supposed to mean?!!! You sir are obviously VERY misinformed! Do you seriously think that is what a redneck is. A redneck (for your information) is someone that fights for freedom, loves his family, likes to have a good time, a appreciates what is important in life. We are not interbreeders, we are not uneducated, we are not stupid people, we know what is important. I will fight to defend the redneck way of life, we are not the way yall think.

[Vealmonkey]

My 500 Tiger, the rider trizilla and myself and 11 other trikes and trike riders were up at Elmira NY on the ice at the Hockey Rink. People paid to see these trike riders as well as the other racers put on a really great show and have quite a spirited competition as well. Does this count as a promoting trikes to the public in general? How about the guys from the OTC or anyone else who goes out and competes or just plain rides? But the riders don't do it for the public, they ride for themselves, but they also happen to be ambassadors of the hobby. Now some other events that have involved trikes, I have heard mixed comments about, that I won't bring up here. People don't often realize how their actions affects how people perceive trike riders.

[ezmoney1979]

[QUOTE=ezmoney1979;1107805]Yeeeeee haaaawwww, interbreeders unite!!! What the heck is that supposed to mean?!!! You sir are obviously VERY misinformed! Do you seriously think that is what a redneck is. A redneck (for your information) is someone that fights for freedom, loves his family, likes to have a good time, a appreciates what is important in life. We are not interbreeders, we are not uneducated, we are not stupid people, we know what is important. I will fight to defend the redneck way of life, we are not the way yall think.

I beg to differ- http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/redneck?s=t

[ATCcountryboy]

[QUOTE=ATCcountryboy;1107811]

I beg to differ- http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/redneck?s=t That was created by stereo-typers like you, that don't know what their talking about. Being a redneck has a different meaning to me, as it does to all true rednecks.

[TimSr]

I was drunk when I wrote that last night. Instead of seeing the good in what I wrote, you and veal decided to focus on one word and something you perceive as bad. Get over yourselves. Just add constructive criticism. It is time we fight back. But I won't do it without the "board members" help.


Again, just like the "occupy" people, can you tell us what specifically you are fighting for, who you are fighting, what it is you hope to accomplish, and how you will gage whether you've been successful? Also, do you think that posting on a public forum that you got drunk before you came up with and posted your master plan to improve the image of trikers helps move you towards that goal? Do you think that claiming you are not responsible for parts of what you posted because you were drunk may influence the public's perception in a positive way that three wheeler riders are responsible people?

[ezmoney1979]

That was created by stereo-typers like you, that don't know what their talking about.
Yeah, I am sure who ever writes the dictionarys just had it out for "rednecks" that day lol. Why do you feel a need to be labeled a "redneck" anyway? Thats like wanting to be called a dumbsh*t, I don't understand, its not a compliment.

[Scootertrash]

The only thing the Occutards have in common with trikers involves the small minority of trikers that didn't take responsibility for their actions of doing stupid sh!t on three wheelers, getting injured or killed, and blaming it on the machine.

The Occutards blame others for their lot in life, when the ONLY ONE responsible is THEM. They b!!!H about not being able to pay tuition, but yet they can spend weeks "occupying" cities in the middle of the school year, trashing city parks, blocking streets preventing productive citizens from going about their business, graffiti, garbage, etc. leaving a pigsty for the taxpayers to fund the clean up.

Nice group of supporters for OWS (including source links for documenting support):

http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2011/10/31/the-99-official-list-of-ows/

You want to compare trikers to Occupy?? Fail.

Thanks but no Thanks.
Good luck with your video.

[riverrat]

My 500 Tiger, the rider trizilla and myself and 11 other trikes and trike riders were up at Elmira NY on the ice at the Hockey Rink. People paid to see these trike riders as well as the other racers put on a really great show and have quite a spirited competition as well. Does this count as a promoting trikes to the public in general? How about the guys from the OTC or anyone else who goes out and competes or just plain rides? But the riders don't do it for the public, they ride for themselves, but they also happen to be ambassadors of the hobby. Now some other events that have involved trikes, I have heard mixed comments about, that I won't bring up here. People don't often realize how their actions affects how people perceive trike riders.

YES YES! when I started this thread, I had this very thing in mind and how well it went. That and other things are something we can demonstrate in the video. How hard would it be to put a link to a video like that every time we post a trike video on youtube?

I see some people, including you just now, making some observations about the negative things done on trikes. This is one of the main points that will be addressed in the video. Do the trikes cause this? No.... People have the conclusion that the trikes themselves are dangerous, we as ambassadors of the sport need to clarify the difference. We can start with the original cspc documents used to start the ban where around 70% of the injuries were really caused by something else other than the trike. We can link to videos of people doing stupid things that show, it is not the trike, it is the person most of the time.

We can make comparisons to all the other perfectly legal activities out there. I mean what is the percentage? How many people have to get hurt on something before the government has a right to ban something? I say there should be no limit. If the government wants to inform us of hte dangers, I am all for it, but to out right take it away? That is unconstitutional, and unAmerican.

Believe me, if I was rich I would pay a team a lawyers and take the government to court on it. Unfortunately, I am not rich but I do have the power of the internet, and the minds of some pretty smart people in this community to help.

This is just one step in the process. It's not an end all to our situation. Yes, it is a situation, and no I cannot just ignore it and go ride. I can't ride because half the places I want to go ride don't even allow trikes. My insurance company also wants to charge me more to insure a ATC110 than a prairie 360 4x4 that weighs 600lbs and crushed me once. We are running out of parts to fix this things, and they don't make stuff anymore. It is becoming harder and harder to be in this sport, and eventually one day we won't be able to do it at all.

Look, I don't want to say to people that riding trikes is safe, it isn't. It is dangerous. So is every form of motorsports, off-roading, and a hundred other hobbies. High school football, and cheerleading is more dangerous statistically than trike riding, yet that is all legal. The ban is unjustified, and peoples opinions, and what the insurance companies think is unjustified. Not allowing us to ride in certain places is unjustified. It's all about fighting back in a civil manor. No one has ever made a really good video about this topic, and if we do one, and everyone links to it, eventually people will start to see it. It should be in the form of a documentary.

[bkm]

99% of the time, the enemy lies within. Perfect example is trying to excuse parts of your post by using alcohol as a scapegoat. I admire your passion for the sport, but the damage is already done, and its been that way for over twenty years. All we can do is pick up the pieces and play with the cards that have been dealt to us. Support the ambassadors and educate the ones willing to learn and be responsible. The nay-sayers have already made up their minds and force feeding something down their throats for acceptance will only reignite flames that have taken many years to extinguish.

Good luck in your endeavors. I will continue to trike on and not care what some yahoo thinks of me and the machine I ride, because to quote Clark Gable "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn".

[ATCcountryboy]

I can't explain it to someone like you, it has a different meaning to us here in the south. You people will never understand. There are two types of rednecks, the ones that the stereo-typers think we are, and the ones that love our country, enjoy the outdoors, like to slow down and realize what life is all about. We like to have fun, and spend time with friends and family, just ask anyone that considers themselves a redneck. I don't care what you think, you will never know.

[ATCcountryboy]

YES YES! when I started this thread, I had this very thing in mind and how well it went. That and other things are something we can demonstrate in the video. How hard would it be to put a link to a video like that every time we post a trike video on youtube?

I see some people, including you just now, making some observations about the negative things done on trikes. This is one of the main points that will be addressed in the video. Do the trikes cause this? No.... People have the conclusion that the trikes themselves are dangerous, we as ambassadors of the sport need to clarify the difference. We can start with the original cspc documents used to start the ban where around 70% of the injuries were really caused by something else other than the trike. We can link to videos of people doing stupid things that show, it is not the trike, it is the person most of the time.

We can make comparisons to all the other perfectly legal activities out there. I mean what is the percentage? How many people have to get hurt on something before the government has a right to ban something? I say there should be no limit. If the government wants to inform us of hte dangers, I am all for it, but to out right take it away? That is unconstitutional, and unAmerican.

Believe me, if I was rich I would pay a team a lawyers and take the government to court on it. Unfortunately, I am not rich but I do have the power of the internet, and the minds of some pretty smart people in this community to help.

This is just one step in the process. It's not an end all to our situation. Yes, it is a situation, and no I cannot just ignore it and go ride. I can't ride because half the places I want to go ride don't even allow trikes. My insurance company also wants to charge me more to insure a ATC110 than a prairie 360 4x4 that weighs 600lbs and crushed me once. We are running out of parts to fix this things, and they don't make stuff anymore. It is becoming harder and harder to be in this sport, and eventually one day we won't be able to do it at all.

Look, I don't want to say to people that riding trikes is safe, it isn't. It is dangerous. So is every form of motorsports, off-roading, and a hundred other hobbies. High school football, and cheerleading is more dangerous statistically than trike riding, yet that is all legal. The ban is unjustified, and peoples opinions, and what the insurance companies think is unjustified. Not allowing us to ride in certain places is unjustified. It's all about fighting back in a civil manor. No one has ever made a really good video about this topic, and if we do one, and everyone links to it, eventually people will start to see it. It should be in the form of a documentary.I agree, how will it hurt us for trying.

[riverrat]

The only thing the Occutards have in common with trikers involves the small minority of trikers that didn't take responsibility for their actions of doing stupid sh!t on three wheelers, getting injured or killed, and blaming it on the machine.

The Occutards blame others for their lot in life, when the ONLY ONE responsible is THEM. They b!!!H about not being able to pay tuition, but yet they can spend weeks "occupying" cities in the middle of the school year, trashing city parks, blocking streets preventing productive citizens from going about their business, graffiti, garbage, etc. leaving a pigsty for the taxpayers to fund the clean up.

Nice group of supporters for OWS (including source links for documenting support):

http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2011/10/31/the-99-official-list-of-ows/

You want to compare trikers to Occupy?? Fail.

Thanks but no Thanks.
Good luck with your video.

You are taking things out of context. It is not a fail, not by any means. your narrow minded view of the occupiers is the perfect example of what media does to things. You don't have a clue who and what the occupiers stand for, and that is because of what you see in the media. I happen to know a few occupiers, and they are doctors, and lawyers, and professional people who are standing up for a great cause. It is VERY AMERICAN what they are doing. Initially I was dupped into thinking like you, and had like comments about them. But then I found out the truth, through the internet.

I was not comparing trike riders to occupiers per say, I am comparing what the media does to both of us, that is what we have in common with the occupiers.

So let's get off this sidebar and get back to business. If you want to know what the occupiers really stand for, go here:
http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt?sk=info&fb_source=message

I (http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt?sk=info&fb_source=message)f you want to talk about it, start another thread in the open forum. Read their list of "demands" and tell me you disagree with all of it.

[riverrat]

I will continue to trike on and not care what some yahoo thinks of me and the machine I ride, because to quote Clark Gable "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn".

Until they don't let you ride it anymore. Then maybe you will give a dam. That day is coming brother.

[riverrat]

Again, just like the "occupy" people, can you tell us what specifically you are fighting for, who you are fighting, what it is you hope to accomplish, and how you will gage whether you've been successful? Also, do you think that posting on a public forum that you got drunk before you came up with and posted your master plan to improve the image of trikers helps move you towards that goal? Do you think that claiming you are not responsible for parts of what you posted because you were drunk may influence the public's perception in a positive way that three wheeler riders are responsible people?

I believe I have addressed most of that. And I wasn't that drunk, I was pumped up buzzed, like always about this topic. I just love rednecks, and all other people. Not my fault some of you got offended. I don't regret a word of what I said. I clarified myself, now let's move on.

[ATCcountryboy]

I just love rednecks, and all other people. Not my fault some of you got offended. I don't regret a word of what I said. I clarified myself, now let's move on. You didn't offened me, it is just the other people that don't know what a redneck REALLY is.

[riverrat]

Propaganda is what I am talking about. So funny my bud posted this picture on facebook.143256

[ATC-Eric]

You people will never understand.


Whachu mean YOUUUU PEOPLE??!?!!?!!!!!

[TimSr]

I believe I have addressed most of that. And I wasn't that drunk, I was pumped up buzzed, like always about this topic. I just love rednecks, and all other people. Not my fault some of you got offended. I don't regret a word of what I said. I clarified myself, now let's move on.

Yep, exactly like "occupy". Ask a simple specific question and get sent on a wild goose chase for an answer.

Yet again I ask:

1.What specifically you are fighting for?
2. Who you are fighting?
3. What it is you hope to accomplish?
4. How do you measure whether you've been successful?


Are you asking the CPSC to overturn a ban that expired a decade and a half ago? Do you want a government issued apology from a bunch of bureaucrats who are more than likely retired by now? Do you actually think Honda wants to make trikes again when a few home garage operations currently in existance can satisfy all the demands this market has to offer? Do you want the governmnet to revisist this issue and shut them down too in the interest of "social justice" or some other nonsense? Will it hurt to try? Try WHAT? What is is you hope to do?

[riverrat]

Yep, exactly like "occupy". Ask a simple specific question and get sent on a wild goose chase for an answer.

Yet again I ask:

1.What specifically you are fighting for?
2. Who you are fighting?
3. What it is you hope to accomplish?
4. How do you measure whether you've been successful?


Are you asking the CPSC to overturn a ban that expired a decade and a half ago? Do you want a government issued apology from a bunch of bureaucrats who are more than likely retired by now? Do you actually think Honda wants to make trikes again when a few home garage operations currently in existance can satisfy all the demands this market has to offer? Do you want the governmnet to revisist this issue and shut them down too in the interest of "social justice" or some other nonsense? Will it hurt to try? Try WHAT? What is is you hope to do?

I guess you are just not reading this thread. All of those questions have been answered already. Also if you had been reading this thread, you would have known that the ban is still in affect. But I will humor you and outline it.

1. I am fighting for my God given rights, and for America to be a free country.
2. I am fighting "the man" (the government, and ignorant people)(stickittothemanneoisis) I also don't know if I would label it "fighting" but more informing.
3. I hope to inform people of the truth about the cspc ban, and the truth about trikes.
4. If the video we make starts to get a lot of views, then we know our word is getting out.

I don't know if Honda, or any other company would start making 3 wheeled ATV's again. Right now they can't if they wanted too. I also don't want a company like TPC to get shut down because of the current ban. I also don't want my insurance company charging me such high rates based on the ignorant public view of trikes, and the lies of the cspc. I don't want riding spots to ban trikes either.

Like I said, I pretty much covered all this already.

[ezmoney1979]

You people will never understand.
You people!?!? What do you mean by that lol:)
Sorry if I offended you or anyone else, but usually around here when someone is a self-proclaimed "redneck", they are the typical narrow-minded, racist *sshole as defined by the dictionary. And their bigotry, I cannot stand. So again, I apologize to anyone whose culture/lifestyle I may have insulted.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Riverrat, not to get too sidetracked from your original point here. But I insure my R for about $36 per year for NYS minimum liability coverage through my local Progressive agent. Granted, I get a multi vehicle discount because I am insuring 3 other machines.. But I can tell you my wife's Z400 is about 10 bucks more per year than the R. I pay $94 per year to insure the (2) Suzuki 230's, her Z400 and my R.



Redneck: "The glorious absence of sophistication" -Jeff Foxworthy... (I am guilty as charged.) ;)

[ATCcountryboy]

You people!?!? What do you mean by that lol:)
Sorry if I offended you or anyone else, but usually around here when someone is a self-proclaimed "redneck", they are the typical narrow-minded, racist *sshole as defined by the dictionary. And their bigotry, I cannot stand. So again, I apologize to anyone whose culture/lifestyle I may have insulted. Its all right, I just have a different meaning to the word. There are tons of people around here that call themselves rednecks, and they are not how you described. I am not a racist, Im not all the things you have described. Sorry I got in this argument, but here in the south redneck has a different meaning. So again, im sorry.

[Dirtcrasher]

In some parts of the country, they frown upon ANY ATV's.

" I was drunk when I brought up this important topic, true to my heart last evening, Lets get em! Rednecks abound!! "

That, honestly had to be your worst admission yet in this discussion......

I have my track on my property and the few times a year I get together with the guys that are within a couple/few hours (thanks to DEEPA and FABIO!!); I never expect to see trikes recover in any comparison to back in there prime, but they do have a following and usually by guys that can ride them and wear a helmet as well as enjoy having proper brakes to get themselves out of trouble.

[TimSr]

1. I am fighting for my God given rights, and for America to be a free country.

What specific right are you fighting for that has been taken, and what is the remedy by which it should be retored?




2. I am fighting "the man" (the government, and ignorant people)(stickittothemanneoisis) I also don't know if I would label it "fighting" but more informing.

The government consists of hundreds of thousands of governmnet employees, but lets say you have informed every one of them. What is it you want or expect from them once they are informed?


3. I hope to inform people of the truth about the cspc ban, and the truth about trikes.

Again, lets say you inform all 300,000,000 Americans, what is it that you expect in return? Aside from a few thousand 3 wheeler riders, how many of those 300 milion do you think even remotely care about the 1988 decree that expired 14 years ago when most dson't know or care whats in the Declaration of Independance?


4. If the video we make starts to get a lot of views, then we know our word is getting out.

So in other words, there is no way to determine success of anything getting accomplished beyond a high number of views on a youtube video, and that is really your ultimate goal?


I don't know if Honda, or any other company would start making 3 wheeled ATV's again. Right now they can't if they wanted too. I also don't want a company like TPC to get shut down because of the current ban. I also don't want my insurance company charging me such high rates based on the ignorant public view of trikes, and the lies of the cspc. I don't want riding spots to ban trikes either.

No major mfg wants to make 3 wheelers again, even with an open invitation from the US government. Except for a couple thousand trikers, few of who could afford one anyways, they are even less popular than the Chevy Volt. Nobody wants them! BUT, keep raising a stink, make enough noise and drag the government back into this fight that was over long ago, and they will be certain to clean up any survivors who are currently operating under the radar. Yes, newer legislation has technically banned them from import and distribution, but that was just cut an pasted in the draft from prior legislation, and the government has no interest in pursuing and enforcing it unless it becomes a big, in their face, deal. Don't make it one!

The federal government has absoluetly nothing to do with your insurance rates. They determine risk based on statistical data from your state law enforecment agencies. If anything, you should lobby your state government about requiring insurance on off road vehicles to begin with. They also have no say in banning 3 wheelers from riding areas other than federal lands, which they do not.


Like I said, I pretty much covered all this already.

Not really. I'm still unclear as to what you are realistically hoping will be the outcome of this endeavor beyond having a youtube video with a high number of hits.

[riverrat]

In some parts of the country, they frown upon ANY ATV's.

" I was drunk when I brought up this important topic, true to my heart last evening, Lets get em! Rednecks abound!! "

That, honestly had to be your worst admission yet in this discussion......

I have my track on my property and the few times a year I get together with the guys that are within a couple/few hours (thanks to DEEPA and FABIO!!); I never expect to see trikes recover in any comparison to back in there prime, but they do have a following and usually by guys that can ride them and wear a helmet as well as enjoy having proper brakes to get themselves out of trouble.

I have these thoughts when I a straight too. I am fairly obsessed with it. I am not one of those guys that doesn't remember or regret what he did the night before. Besides, you never came up with a good idea while drinking?

[riverrat]

What specific right are you fighting for that has been taken, and what is the remedy by which it should be retored?

My right to make, buy, sell ride three wheelers at the same level as every other ATV. AKA freedom.






The government consists of hundreds of thousands of governmnet employees, but lets say you have informed every one of them. What is it you want or expect from them once they are informed?


Eventually to unban them, yes they are banned. But this is only one small step in a process that may or may not be completed by me or someone else. It is a step in the right direction.



Again, lets say you inform all 300,000,000 Americans, what is it that you expect in return? Aside from a few thousand 3 wheeler riders, how many of those 300 milion do you think even remotely care about the 1988 decree that expired 14 years ago when most dson't know or care whats in the Declaration of Independance?

Well first off, I would be willing to bet there is more than just a few thousand three wheel riders.
Secondly, I don't care if other people don't care, it's not them I am concerned about.
Third, three wheelers are still banned, worse now than in 1988.




So in other words, there is no way to determine success of anything getting accomplished beyond a high number of views on a youtube video, and that is really your ultimate goal?


Like I said, this is only one step in a process. NYTRO had success by racing three wheelers in front of fans who paid to see it. It was their views that made it a success. The ultimate goal would be to just to get the truth out, and get rid of the ban, high insurance rates, and be able to ride anywhere any other ATV can ride. Who knows, maybe even get AMA to sponsor races again.



No major mfg wants to make 3 wheelers again, even with an open invitation from the US government. Except for a couple thousand trikers, few of who could afford one anyways, they are even less popular than the Chevy Volt. Nobody wants them! BUT, keep raising a stink, make enough noise and drag the government back into this fight that was over long ago, and they will be certain to clean up any survivors who are currently operating under the radar. Yes, newer legislation has technically banned them from import and distribution, but that was just cut an pasted in the draft from prior legislation, and the government has no interest in pursuing and enforcing it unless it becomes a big, in their face, deal. Don't make it one!

Are you telling me to be scared of the truth? Sorry I don't work that way. Major manufactures don't want to make them because of everything that happened, people don't want to ride them because they are ignorant. All that would change if the truth was known.



The federal government has absoluetly nothing to do with your insurance rates. They determine risk based on statistical data from your state law enforecment agencies. If anything, you should lobby your state government about requiring insurance on off road vehicles to begin with. They also have no say in banning 3 wheelers from riding areas other than federal lands, which they do not.

I know the federal government has nothing to do with my rates (well yes they do) but it was what the government did that made the rates so high. I would love to believe they are based of statistics, but I fear that is a bunch of BS, and as soon as you say "3 wheeler" magic evil light bulbs go off in peoples heads. I would love to see cspc reports on ATV injuries from last year, and just what the percentage of people riding 3 wheelers who got hurt is. My guess is it is not 1 in 7 anymore.
Plenty of private riding parks banned three wheelers, and for what? Because they are dangerous? We know they aren't. Why do they think that?




Not really. I'm still unclear as to what you are realistically hoping will be the outcome of this endeavor beyond having a youtube video with a high number of hits.

The truth.

[Jason125m]

Making a youtube video and getting a lot of hits, will do NOTHING except make whatever trikes are left, even more hard to find. They won't make them again. They are trying to ban ATV's and UTV's ffs! Just have to deal with it. In my opinion it add's to the pride of owning a 3 wheeler. Wherever i ride here in Canada, everyone who see's me looks at me with a huge smile, waves, or stops me to talk about how cool they are. I rarely get the " them things are dangerous man ". Be respectful and get respect.

[riverrat]

Riverrat, not to get too sidetracked from your original point here. But I insure my R for about $36 per year for NYS minimum liability coverage through my local Progressive agent. Granted, I get a multi vehicle discount because I am insuring 3 other machines.. But I can tell you my wife's Z400 is about 10 bucks more per year than the R. I pay $94 per year to insure the (2) Suzuki 230's, her Z400 and my R.



Redneck: "The glorious absence of sophistication" -Jeff Foxworthy... (I am guilty as charged.) ;)

I got quotes from progressive. My 4x4 360 prairie was $160 a year FULL coverage, and the 250R was $200 min liability. I got better rates from state farm. Insurance is not required in NYS, but it is in some places if you want to ride, and just a good idea for someone like me who owns a house, and doesn't want to be sued if something dumb happens out on the ice or on a trail.

[bkm]

Like I eluded to earlier and Tim has said, "let a sleeping dog lie". OK, say you start getting the attention of people who are on the fence with the subject and you try and educate them, well what happens when you rattle the cage of the people who got this ball rolling the first time? Revert back to the first sentence in this post.

I can make all the youtube video's I want about how safe a firearm is, show the people how much safety I have and respect for the weapon, but do you really believe that a anti gun person gives a damn about how safely I handle it. NO! They will use those that abuse the weapon against what I like. They don't give a damn about how responsible you or me are, they have their own agenda and right now its not in the spotlight. But shed light on the subject and see what type of attention you get and then report back to us.

[riverrat]

Making a youtube video and getting a lot of hits, will do NOTHING except make whatever trikes are left, even more hard to find. They won't make them again. They are trying to ban ATV's and UTV's ffs! Just have to deal with it. In my opinion it add's to the pride of owning a 3 wheeler. Wherever i ride here in Canada, everyone who see's me looks at me with a huge smile, waves, or stops me to talk about how cool they are. I rarely get the " them things are dangerous man ". Be respectful and get respect.

Yes I understand what you are saying, but just hiding in a corner while it all goes down may not be the best decision. I get the same when I bring my 3 wheeler out too, but that is from people who ride and understand. Some people will mention it though. The government doesn't have the right to ban ATC's, ATV's, or UTV's. It's our choice if we choose to ride them. There are plenty of sports to compare too that are more dangerous. Besides, the level of danger should not be the basis for whether it is legal or not. Some people in this country want to make legal assisted suicide, why can't I ride? Maybe I want to die on a 3 wheeler, and not get cancer and slowly die in a bed for 4 years. It's my dam choice.

I appreciate your thoughts.

[riverrat]

Like I eluded to earlier and Tim has said, "let a sleeping dog lie". OK, say you start getting the attention of people who are on the fence with the subject and you try and educate them, well what happens when you rattle the cage of the people who got this ball rolling the first time? Revert back to the first sentence in this post.

I can make all the youtube video's I want about how safe a firearm is, show the people how much safety I have and respect for the weapon, but do you really believe that a anti gun person gives a damn about how safely I handle it. NO! They will use those that abuse the weapon against what I like. They don't give a damn about how responsible you or me are, they have their own agenda and right now its not in the spotlight. But shed light on the subject and see what type of attention you get and then report back to us.

Well that is why there is the NRA who fight for our second amendment rights.

This dog ain't sleeping, and it will get worse whether I do something about it or not.

Right now the problem with this country is they want to run the country by statistics, instead of principals. what gives people the right to play God based on statistics?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I got quotes from progressive. My 4x4 360 prairie was $160 a year FULL coverage, and the 250R was $200 min liability. I got better rates from state farm. Insurance is not required in NYS, but it is in some places if you want to ride, and just a good idea for someone like me who owns a house, and doesn't want to be sued if something dumb happens out on the ice or on a trail.

Wow, that's a headscratcher. Especially since we both live in NY. In NY, when riding on any public property be it a seasonal road that's open to ATV's or on a frozen body of water one is required to carry NY minimum liability. I live near a large lake that is popular with ice fishing and the DEC, State Troopers and Park police do check for reggy's and insurance on the wheelers the ice fishermen drive out on the lake with. So you choosing to insure for on the ice and whatnot is a smart decision. If a cop ever came by while you were playing on the ice and you didn't have insurance, he would have you by the short-n-curly's. And as broke as NY is, they are really out looking for that kind of thing.

I wonder if you living such a distance from my area would make it impossible to insure your machines where I do. If you have a good driving record I guarantee they can beat the rates you are currently paying. If you want their number PM me and I'll send it to you. They have no qualms about insuring trikes. Heck they don't even ask if it is a trike. All they care about is make, model, year and engine displacement.

Sorry about the second digression... Just trying to return the favor for all the ice setup advice you have helped me with a while back. :beer

[HuffieVA]

Wow guys, here is the reality...

1 - There are currently (as an estimate) less than a few thousand people that would (if they could even afford it) buy a new trike if they did make them...

2 - Dirt Bike / ATV sales are at such a low rate now, you will likely see a reduction in available models anyway in the years to come, there is no way that the possibility of selling 3000 units will persuade any major manufacturer to spend the money on development, let alone the funds that would be required to convince the government that they made a mistake... it doesn't matter if those matter if those three thousand people are Rednecks, Mormons, Amish, Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Gay, Short, Tall, Officers of the Law, Illegal Immigrants, Cartel Boss, Actresses, Penthouse Pets, Christian, Jewish, Dead, Angry, Deaf, Blind, Mulatto, Mentally Challenged, Bedridden, Siamese Twins or Democrats it ain't gonna happen...

3 - It would cost millions upon millions of dollars to implement a total recall of existing trikes and its not a hot topic so it ain't gonna happen

4 - Your always free to build whatever you want (sans guns, whorehouses & weapons of mass destruction) so gather some tools and parts and get to work

5 - Arguing over the definition of "Redneck" is futile, as its one of those words that basically means what you want it to, and the only thing that makes less sense would be to get pissed off when somebody calls you one...

6 - Basically someone made a statement that someone may have taken a touch too literally, basically we can keep stoking the fire, or we can all pretend we get along with one another...

[Mosh]

:acr

Wow...I have not seen a discussion like this for awhile now on these forums.

2 Brick walls meet..Been there ,tried to bust both down..Rather find another way or comprimise around them walls.
Line up with both and see if who will eat who's roost on a holeshot in a real 3wheeler race??:pics:shens:D
Hoosier Daddy


Sorry attempt at comedy...:drool:

[ATCcountryboy]

[QUOTE=HuffieVA;1107915

5 - Arguing over the definition of "Redneck" is futile, as its one of those words that basically means what you want it to, and the only thing that makes less sense would be to get pissed off when somebody calls you one...

[/QUOTE]Exactly, that is what I was trying to say. It means what you want it to, and it means something different to me. Ok, im putting this behind me now.

[TimSr]

Riverrat,
I believe you're a good guy whose intentions are sincere, but I'm guessing your a very young guy who is not well versed in how government operates, and how unaccountable they are, and the amount of public pressure it actually takes to make them do ANYTHING. We watched them pass a Healthcare bill against the will of the vast majority of Americans. We see the president shoot down the Keystone Pipeline when 78% of Americans support it. You really hope to rally political pressure for overturning an expired 3 wheeler ban, or a technical ban that a bills author's don't even understand is in there. If a few hundred million Americans can't get a no brainer pipeline approval through, you think the few thousand Americans who even know what the 3 wheeler ban is are going to force congress to act?

Of your rights you are fighting to protect, you can do any of things now.

OTC is welcomed all over Ohio and neighboring states because we set an example, and behave with discretion, and have earned the respect and trust of the entire race circuit. We don't look for and ask for access to new tracks to race, because we get invited to far more than we can attend. This is our 2nd year with a CRA Sanctioned Series. This is our first year with Dealer Sponsored Series, (Cycles R Us). This is the 3rd year we have been invited, and the first year we accepted and invitation to Run AMA Dirt Track Nationals. We have a new trike builder and distributor participating in many events. We get nothing but respect from all of the other racers, quads or bikes, and spectators.

Like I said, I'm not sure what your substantive goals are, as they are mostly stated in platitudes, but doesnt this sound like something worth achieving that would satisfy your desire to promote the sport? I'm here to tell you its a lot more attainable and realistic. Im also here to tell you that it is not going to happen because of protests, youtube videos, or government action. In comes from investing years into being consistantly positive in bulding a reputation in promoting the sport, and an active diligence in squelching the negatives before you become identified with them. Its comes with participating wherever they allow you, and getting to know and support the promoters who support you. It comes with building relationships with those who operate the riding facilities. It comes with earning their respect and trust. It comes from like minded responsible and loyal friends by your side.

If you truly want to advance the sport, first off, become informed about what advances are being made out there in the sport, and be supportive. You want people to support your youtube video, but how many other positive videos are already out there that you ignore? How much time does it take to view, and "like" a good positive video or leave a good comment? Do you know that when people post good trike videos, and they get 20 views and a couple negative comments, they tend to not bother posting any more of them? And when you see idiots posting stupid and irresponsible things that give trikes a bad name, do you leave negative comments or allow peopel to think thats what trikers are? Or when your friends do something stupid, do you keep it private, or do you rush home to post it on the internet? When you are riding somewhere and your friends are openly vioating the rules of the place you are riding, do you say something or just wait for a park authority to tell them? Do you treat every operator access as a privilege or do you view it as a "right"?

This will get you a lot farther than protesting or trying to battle unacountable government employees and politicians who have nothing to do with the prejudices you are experiencing in access and insurance. When it comes right down to it, its incredibly foolish to look for a government solution to a government created problem. Ride, respect the rules, learn the names and get to know the people who let you in, dont bring people who will harm your reputation, and make sure everything you make public is positive, and doors will open.

[swampthang]

This is the 3rd year we have been invited, and the first year we accepted and invitation to Run AMA Dirt Track Nationals.

Really? I thought the AMA wouldn't allow 3wheelers to run in one of there events. Thats awesome if they are now!

[Scootertrash]

You are taking things out of context. It is not a fail, not by any means. your narrow minded view of the occupiers is the perfect example of what media does to things. You don't have a clue who and what the occupiers stand for, and that is because of what you see in the media. I happen to know a few occupiers, and they are doctors, and lawyers, and professional people who are standing up for a great cause. It is VERY AMERICAN what they are doing. Initially I was dupped into thinking like you, and had like comments about them. But then I found out the truth, through the internet.

I was not comparing trike riders to occupiers per say, I am comparing what the media does to both of us, that is what we have in common with the occupiers.

So let's get off this sidebar and get back to business. If you want to know what the occupiers really stand for, go here:
http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt?sk=info&fb_source=message

I (http://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt?sk=info&fb_source=message)f you want to talk about it, start another thread in the open forum. Read their list of "demands" and tell me you disagree with all of it.

If you don't want "sidebars", maybe you should stick to your topic and not make lame comparisons.

Typical liberal blather. I'm narrow minded. Riiight

But then I found out the truth, through the internet. :rolleyes: From their website and their facebook page?? Yea, there's a balanced opinion.

TimSr's posts hit the nail on the head, but we don't want to bring common sense into this do we?

[just ben]

I Insurance is not required in NYS, um are you sure?? registration is required no matter what. if you are on any property other than your own you are required to have a liability policy at the min.good luck with your video.. nobody cares about trikes unless you show a dog riding one

[tulsamike3434]

As soon as my daughter turns 3 she will be riding her honda 70 I cant wait i would love to put that in the safety on the ATC video!

[Scootertrash]

Wow guys, here is the reality...


4 - Your always free to build whatever you want (sans guns, whorehouses & weapons of mass destruction) so gather some tools and parts and get to work



Actually an individual CAN manufacture a weapon, and it doesn't need a serial number:


a nonlicensee (non licensed manufacturer) may manufacture a semiautomatic rifle (or pistol) for his or her own personal use. As long as the firearm remains in the custody of the person who manufactured it, the firearm need not be marked with a serial number or name and location of the manufacturer. However, if the firearm is transferred to another party at some point in the future, the firearm must be marked in accordance with the provisions set forth in 27 CFR § 478.92 (formerly 178.92).


Sawed off shotguns, short barrel rifles and "disguised guns" (cane guns, belt buckle guns, etc.) need NFA paperwork PRIOR to construction of the weapon.

Now if we could just figger out a way around them pesky whorehouse building laws!!:wondering :D

[tulsamike3434]

Here is what she rides now I found it at the flea matket.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i434/mikesatcshop/3_Wheelers/IMAG0049.jpg

[Scootertrash]

Riverrat,
I believe you're a good guy whose intentions are sincere, but I'm guessing your a very young guy who is not well versed in how government operates, and how unaccountable they are, and the amount of public pressure it actually takes to make them do ANYTHING. We watched them pass a Healthcare bill against the will of the vast majority of Americans. We see the president shoot down the Keystone Pipeline when 78% of Americans support it. You really hope to rally political pressure for overturning an expired 3 wheeler ban, or a technical ban that a bills author's don't even understand is in there. If a few hundred million Americans can't get a no brainer pipeline approval through, you think the few thousand Americans who even know what the 3 wheeler ban is are going to force congress to act?

Of your rights you are fighting to protect, you can do any of things now.

OTC is welcomed all over Ohio and neighboring states because we set an example, and behave with discretion, and have earned the respect and trust of the entire race circuit. We don't look for and ask for access to new tracks to race, because we get invited to far more than we can attend. This is our 2nd year with a CRA Sanctioned Series. This is our first year with Dealer Sponsored Series, (Cycles R Us). This is the 3rd year we have been invited, and the first year we accepted and invitation to Run AMA Dirt Track Nationals. We have a new trike builder and distributor participating in many events. We get nothing but respect from all of the other racers, quads or bikes, and spectators.

Like I said, I'm not sure what your substantive goals are, as they are mostly stated in platitudes, but doesnt this sound like something worth achieving that would satisfy your desire to promote the sport? I'm here to tell you its a lot more attainable and realistic. Im also here to tell you that it is not going to happen because of protests, youtube videos, or government action. In comes from investing years into being consistantly positive in bulding a reputation in promoting the sport, and an active diligence in squelching the negatives before you become identified with them. Its comes with participating wherever they allow you, and getting to know and support the promoters who support you. It comes with building relationships with those who operate the riding facilities. It comes with earning their respect and trust. It comes from like minded responsible and loyal friends by your side.

If you truly want to advance the sport, first off, become informed about what advances are being made out there in the sport, and be supportive. You want people to support your youtube video, but how many other positive videos are already out there that you ignore? How much time does it take to view, and "like" a good positive video or leave a good comment? Do you know that when people post good trike videos, and they get 20 views and a couple negative comments, they tend to not bother posting any more of them? And when you see idiots posting stupid and irresponsible things that give trikes a bad name, do you leave negative comments or allow peopel to think thats what trikers are? Or when your friends do something stupid, do you keep it private, or do you rush home to post it on the internet? When you are riding somewhere and your friends are openly vioating the rules of the place you are riding, do you say something or just wait for a park authority to tell them? Do you treat every operator access as a privilege or do you view it as a "right"?

This will get you a lot farther than protesting or trying to battle unacountable government employees and politicians who have nothing to do with the prejudices you are experiencing in access and insurance. When it comes right down to it, its incredibly foolish to look for a government solution to a government created problem. Ride, respect the rules, learn the names and get to know the people who let you in, dont bring people who will harm your reputation, and make sure everything you make public is positive, and doors will open.


Excellent post!! SUmmarizes the whole situation perfectly.
Thanks TimSr!!

[bkm]

This dog ain't sleeping, and it will get worse whether I do something about it or not.


First off you might not be but the issue is. When is the last time you turned on the TV, read a news paper article, or came across an effort to outright ban three wheelers in the last 15 or more years. I can't remember seeing one. Show me evidence that there is a outright assault on just three wheelers and not all atv's in general.All ATV's have been under fire since the first tree hugger got wind of them.

Then you contradict yourself by saying if we basically don't rush the White House with torches and pitchfork's they will come after our trikes. Then you say it will get worse whether you do anything or not. So why waste the time with a futile efforts if it will just get worse with your effort or not.

My opinion is the trikes days were numbered and were a dying breed anyway with the emerging quad scene. Sure they might have made a few models but the quad market would have eventually taken over anyway.

Like I said I share your enthusiasm about out sport and do what you need to do, but I'm just gonna restore my bikes and enjoy them with family and friends.

[riverrat]

Wow, that's a headscratcher. Especially since we both live in NY. In NY, when riding on any public property be it a seasonal road that's open to ATV's or on a frozen body of water one is required to carry NY minimum liability. I live near a large lake that is popular with ice fishing and the DEC, State Troopers and Park police do check for reggy's and insurance on the wheelers the ice fishermen drive out on the lake with. So you choosing to insure for on the ice and whatnot is a smart decision. If a cop ever came by while you were playing on the ice and you didn't have insurance, he would have you by the short-n-curly's. And as broke as NY is, they are really out looking for that kind of thing.

I wonder if you living such a distance from my area would make it impossible to insure your machines where I do. If you have a good driving record I guarantee they can beat the rates you are currently paying. If you want their number PM me and I'll send it to you. They have no qualms about insuring trikes. Heck they don't even ask if it is a trike. All they care about is make, model, year and engine displacement.

Sorry about the second digression... Just trying to return the favor for all the ice setup advice you have helped me with a while back. :beer

I stand corrected, they must have changed the law. You do need insurance to ride any where except your own property. I have been stopped on the lake before and I was informed that insurance was not needed. I just went to the DMV site and apparently you do need insurance.

[riverrat]

Riverrat,
I believe you're a good guy whose intentions are sincere, but I'm guessing your a very young guy who is not well versed in how government operates, and how unaccountable they are, and the amount of public pressure it actually takes to make them do ANYTHING.

Yea, I am 46. I understand how government works, and that is why I intend to stand up to them any chance I can get. I also worked for local government for 11 years, and I see first hand the amount of stupidness that goes on, and I promote the truth about that any chance I get.

I am proud and envious of OTC. I watch your videos in aw. I promote them too. Years of being positive in building a reputation of promoting the sport is already being done, and an informative video like the one I am trying to do would only help that cause. I race when I can, unfortunately most races are far away. I hold races at my house every weekend throughout the winter, and maintain a track all winter long. I was supposed to go to Elmira, but my trike wasn't finished. I didn't even really want to go because of the racing, because it would have been 4 hours of driving each way just to race 2 minutes, I wanted to go to promote the sport. I do all those other things already.

My idea is not meant to be an end all to the problem, it is only to help inform people of the truth. If done in a professional manor with supporting evidence and links, it could never be disputed. It also goes deeper than just trikes, it just shows people what government does to us, and how they are trying to ruin our freedom. It's just a small piece of the puzzle.

If we don't fight back (ATC's, ATV's, UTV's) we will lose it all together. By the same token, if we all don't act responsible and do the right things with our equipment, we just stick a knife in our own backs.

I also had ideas of making trike riding training videos, and the like.

Ultimately I wll just have to buy my own land to ride on, but even that may not be an answer, as they already have laws about riding within 500ft of someones house. If I had 1000x1000ft lot with houses on all sides, I couldn't even ride on my own property. Makes me sick. I am about to go a rant, so let me stop.

[just ben]

I stand corrected, they must have changed the law. You do need insurance to ride any where except your own property. I have been stopped on the lake before and I was informed that insurance was not needed. I just went to the DMV site and apparently you do need insurance.yeah it was a new law 20 + years ago. I (my parents) got a ticket in 1988 for not being insured

[vonlindheim]

wow! this thread sure went a couple of different directions :) calling people rednecks and f@#%ing ones at that won't get you much help here :( as for changing people minds or the atc laws, it just won't happen in our time. every off road rig people ride is up for scrutiny. i get dumped of my trikes every ride. some people get hurt,die, or other, but it won't stop us from doing what we enjoy. go and have fun with your trike and don't let people opinion stop you. you have some great people on this site and they like enjoying their trikes and chatting on this site. trike on buddy and chat with some of these guys. enjoy :)

[riverrat]

First off you might not be but the issue is. When is the last time you turned on the TV, read a news paper article, or came across an effort to outright ban three wheelers in the last 15 or more years.

There is no "outright" effort to ban three wheelers, because in the minds of those against us, they are banned. However, there still is bans going on in various places that I could possibly go riding. Try to get AMA to sponsor a 3 wheel race.

Yes they are attacking all ATV's. Three wheelers were the stepping stone to all of it, the foundation. Take away that stepping stone, and that foundation and they will have nothing to stand on.

I shouldn't have said it will get worse whether we do anything or not, I should have said they will attack us whether we do anything or not. Better to do something.

[ATCcountryboy]

Yea, I am 46. I understand how government works, and that is why I intend to stand up to them any chance I can get. I also worked for local government for 11 years, and I see first hand the amount of stupidness that goes on, and I promote the truth about that any chance I get.

I am proud and envious of OTC. I watch your videos in aw. I promote them too. Years of being positive in building a reputation of promoting the sport is already being done, and an informative video like the one I am trying to do would only help that cause. I race when I can, unfortunately most races are far away. I hold races at my house every weekend throughout the winter, and maintain a track all winter long. I was supposed to go to Elmira, but my trike wasn't finished. I didn't even really want to go because of the racing, because it would have been 4 hours of driving each way just to race 2 minutes, I wanted to go to promote the sport. I do all those other things already.

My idea is not meant to be an end all to the problem, it is only to help inform people of the truth. If done in a professional manor with supporting evidence and links, it could never be disputed. It also goes deeper than just trikes, it just shows people what government does to us, and how they are trying to ruin our freedom. It's just a small piece of the puzzle.

If we don't fight back (ATC's, ATV's, UTV's) we will lose it all together. By the same token, if we all don't act responsible and do the right things with our equipment, we just stick a knife in our own backs.

I also had ideas of making trike riding training videos, and the like.

Ultimately I wll just have to buy my own land to ride on, but even that may not be an answer, as they already have laws about riding within 500ft of someones house. If I had 1000x1000ft lot with houses on all sides, I couldn't even ride on my own property. Makes me sick. I am about to go a rant, so let me stop.I agree, I think we need to go back to what America used to be like, we need to fight for what we believe in even if it seems imposible. Look at what has happened in the past, there have been so many people that have done what other people have thought imposible. What is the point of not trying? The least that could happen would be that we fail, but what if something does happen, this could be something but we will never know unless we try. That is what this country was founded on, the freedom to do what you want,when you want. Not to have someone else to tell you how to live your life.

[ATCcountryboy]

Here is what she rides now I found it at the flea matket.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i434/mikesatcshop/3_Wheelers/IMAG0049.jpg That is cool, I didn't even know they made those.

[riverrat]

If you don't want "sidebars", maybe you should stick to your topic and not make lame comparisons.

Typical liberal blather. I'm narrow minded. Riiight

But then I found out the truth, through the internet. :rolleyes: From their website and their facebook page?? Yea, there's a balanced opinion.

TimSr's posts hit the nail on the head, but we don't want to bring common sense into this do we?

So you didn't actually read what they stand for? I guess you think it is ok for wall street to do to us what they did and cause this entire financial disaster? I guess you like to have stuff in your food that you have no idea what it is? I guess you enjoy bailing out those banks with your tax dollars while those execs that caused all this continue to receive bonuses? Educate yourself before you speak on a subject.

Dude I am the furthest thing from a liberal, and I will continue to make that comparison. It's not a sidebar FYI, you arguing about is though. Like I told you twice already, it's not about the occupiers, it is about what media does to this country.

TimSr makes great points, and I have addressed them.

[riverrat]

yeah it was a new law 20 + years ago. I (my parents) got a ticket in 1988 for not being insured

I guess the cops around here are idiots then, or they are just letting us go and being cool. They do ask for registration. Years ago I used to only ride in PA in a private community, and we never got bothered or cared about the law I guess.

But this is only another thing that pisses me off. I have to register and insure my rides, but there isn't a public land within 180 miles or so to ride on, unless it is the frozen lake.

[Thorpe]

it doesn't matter if those matter if those three thousand people are Rednecks, Mormons, Amish, Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Gay, Short, Tall, Officers of the Law, Illegal Immigrants, Cartel Boss, Actresses, Penthouse Pets, Christian, Jewish, Dead, Angry, Deaf, Blind, Mulatto, Mentally Challenged, Bedridden, Siamese Twins or Democrats it ain't gonna happen...

Just as long as we dont have to deal with the Kazakhstanians!
143264143265

[riverrat]

Oh and TimSr, let me just add that I am an elected official in my community. I do my part to help out. I also help out in the local town with coaching, and running summer basketball leagues. I ran R/C plane building and flying classes in my shop to promote that hobby for years. I help the local kids out with their ATV machines and teach them how to work on them, how to be respectful and ride. They can come to my house whenever they want, and I would help them fix their machine. The point is I get involved, not just because I like helping people, but because I want to help protect what is rightfully ours.

Tell you a funny story, this lady at our community beach used to go swimming everyday. She would swim under the beach rope and out into the lake. She shows up at a meeting and tells her story of how when she goes under the rope, she sometimes gets a fishing hook in her hand (can you see where this is going?). She then starts a vote to ban fishing from the community docks and beach, and people were starting to go along with her. I was like wait a minute (I was fuming but holding it back), has anyone here even thought about the fact that swimming under the rope is illegal under our rules? Not to mention that me and several other people moved here because we can fish, and it is out right to fish here. I pointed out that when I get a hook stuck in the rope, that I go out and get it unstuck, and that the hooks could be coming from people passing by fishing in boats, and this dumb rule isn't going to stop hooks from getting in the rope. It was shortly after that, that I became the head of the "fishing hook in the beach rope committee", and fishing was continued to be allowed.

Point is, we have to stand up to this kind of crap.

[Scootertrash]

Funny, you don't want to continue the sidebar about the occupiers, but you continue the sidebar about the occupiers?


Yes I have seen their demands. I'm 51 and well versed on their demands, behavior, and media favoritism which favors the leftist side of this country including OWS. If you fail to see that maybe you need to educate yourself a little more about both.
Any mainstream media coverage of the occupiers I saw was favorable except for a very small percentage.

Did you look at the list of organizations that have thrown their support behind OWS? Or is that just more media manipulation?

I'll start an occupier/media thread later today when I get home from work. Then you can attempt to convince me that OWS is the way to go.

[fabiodriven]

Blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah? Blah blah blah blew blipitty blah blah blah. Blah? BLAH! Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah! Blah blah blah....

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah, and blah? Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blopitty blip blew blah.

I would like to take this time to remind my fellow members that there is the option to "Rate this thread" at the upper right-hand corner of the screen.

[andersonee4]

well this got nowhere. I would like to yell and act like an idiot too!!!!......... LETS CHARGE WITH OUR FIRE A BLAZIN AND RAISE OUR PITCHFORKS HIGH.. REDNECKS UNITE!!!.. yah........... that'll scare 'em into manufacturing trikes. fucin ogres.

[HuffieVA]

well this got nowhere. I would like to yell and act like an idiot too!!!!......... LETS CHARGE WITH OUR FIRE A BLAZIN AND RAISE OUR PITCHFORKS HIGH.. REDNECKS UNITE!!!.. yah........... that'll scare 'em into manufacturing trikes. fucin ogres.

Look buddy, you can say what you want about me, you can scorn my ideas, disbelieve my beliefs and dream about my sister but if you think you can come on here an dis my pitchfork, well I got news for you.......

[andersonee4]

Look buddy, you can say what you want about me, you can scorn my ideas, disbelieve my beliefs and dream about my sister but if you think you can come on here an dis my pitchfork, well I got news for you.......

HAHAAH .. man that was funny shiz

[Scootertrash]

I must add I do my part to promote triking in my neck of the woods.

I will also add that I am on the side of the others who believe it would be a waste of time. People have far more important things to worry about right now than the small portion of America that enjoys this hobby of ours.

The majority of America couldn't give a rodents patooti about our hobby.

People have been stereotyping bikers for far longer than 3 wheelers, even tho there is far more respectable upstanding bikers than the 1%'ers. I ride a Harley and wear leathers, and I still get the sideways glances and the evil eye, even tho I don't belong to a club, wear colors or have a long scruffy beard or long hair and shower daily and have a job.

Myself, my wife and another couple stopped at Hardees for a burger one Saturday. We got our food and sat at a table in a mostly empty dining room. Shortly after we sat down a couple came in with their two daughters. While the husband/father ordered the food the wife/mother and her two daughters came and sat at the table next to ours. When the husband came with the food he made the wife and daughters get up and move across the dining room. :rolleyes::p

[Vealmonkey]

Huffie, you have a sister:beer
Scootertrash, Maybe your chaps intimidates them. LOL

[thestud25]

Propaganda is what I am talking about. So funny my bud posted this picture on facebook.143256

ATCTIM created that! This whole thread is a useless merry go round of crap. A video is not going to change the minds of millions of people. Let's just keep the trike loving in our community and tell those that don't like us to eat a di%*.

[ezmoney1979]

Myself, my wife and another couple stopped at Hardees for a burger one Saturday. We got our food and sat at a table in a mostly empty dining room. Shortly after we sat down a couple came in with their two daughters. While the husband/father ordered the food the wife/mother and her two daughters came and sat at the table next to ours. When the husband came with the food he made the wife and daughters get up and move across the dining room. :rolleyes::p
I'm with Veal, must have been the assless chaps..........

[atc007]

I will chime in now.. thanx Fabio ! I NEVER saw the upper right! I am no computer guy. Guess I should look around a little!

[riverrat]

I will also add that I am on the side of the others who believe it would be a waste of time. People have far more important things to worry about right now than the small portion of America that enjoys this hobby of ours.

There is a lot of people who don't give a dam about people who fly R/C planes too. Right now as we speak the AMA (academy of model aeronautics) is fighting for our right to build and fly ROV's UAV's, and a few other things. If we didn't have that organization, the people, and the government would just continue to take take take from us, until the only thing we can do is kyack and walk, which offends me BTW.

But it is that slow erosion of freedom that is killing us. The subtlety of the gradual.

I have to say I am pretty disappointed in the response here, I really expected greater things from this community, and better attitudes. I thought only people on .org argue like this.

Oh well, I am going to make the video anyway. Going to take some time, as I want to help out sorting through the cspc stuff first and have it all organized.

Oh-no riverrat is going to ruin it for all of us! You are already ruined broskis. I couldn't possibly ruin it anymore than half the stupid videos out there depicting trikes in a bad light.

[TimSr]

I applaud your efforts and wish you luck in making the video. Maybe it will convince somebody, maybe it won't but it can't do any harm and will add one more positive video to youtube.

As for picking a fight with the federal government on behalf of all trikers, if you are successful in lobbying them to re-write ATV regulations there are 3 possible outcomes.

1. New regulations could be more favorable to trikes.
2. New regulations could be less favorable to trikes.
3. New regulations may have little or no impact.

Which outcome is most likely? Doesn't really matter. The point is that even if #2 is even a very remote possibility, you are gambling with everyone's rights, not just yours, and I really don't think you have an ethical right to do that without a consensus supporting it.

If you can get the offices of either of your US Senators, just one, to agree that relaxing regulations on three wheeled or any other kind of ATV needs a 2nd look, I will throw 100% support behind you. Sen. Clinton and Sen. Shumer are reasonable people who are open to being educated. Heck, I'll even settle for your district Representative, and I don't even know who it is.

[ATCcountryboy]

There is a lot of people who don't give a dam about people who fly R/C planes too. Right now as we speak the AMA (academy of model aeronautics) is fighting for our right to build and fly ROV's UAV's, and a few other things. If we didn't have that organization, the people, and the government would just continue to take take take from us, until the only thing we can do is kyack and walk, which offends me BTW.

But it is that slow erosion of freedom that is killing us. The subtlety of the gradual.

I have to say I am pretty disappointed in the response here, I really expected greater things from this community, and better attitudes. I thought only people on .org argue like this.

Oh well, I am going to make the video anyway. Going to take some time, as I want to help out sorting through the cspc stuff first and have it all organized.

Oh-no riverrat is going to ruin it for all of us! You are already ruined broskis. I couldn't possibly ruin it anymore than half the stupid videos out there depicting trikes in a bad light.I will be happy to help if you need it.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I applaud your efforts and wish you luck in making the video. Maybe it will convince somebody, maybe it won't but it can't do any harm and will add one more positive video to youtube.

As for picking a fight with the federal government on behalf of all trikers, if you are successful in lobbying them to re-write ATV regulations there are 3 possible outcomes.

1. New regulations could be more favorable to trikes.
2. New regulations could be less favorable to trikes.
3. New regulations may have little or no impact.

Which outcome is most likely? Doesn't really matter. The point is that even if #2 is even a very remote possibility, you are gambling with everyone's rights, not just yours, and I really don't think you have an ethical right to do that without a consensus supporting it.

If you can get the offices of either of your US Senators, just one, to agree that relaxing regulations on three wheeled or any other kind of ATV needs a 2nd look, I will throw 100% support behind you. Sen. Clinton and Sen. Shumer are reasonable people who are open to being educated. Heck, I'll even settle for your district Representative, and I don't even know who it is.


SAY WHAT??!!! I was with you right up till then Tim! LOL!

Clinton is our Secretary of State. Kirsten Gillibrand is the other US senator representing NY.

[Scootertrash]

I'm with Veal, must have been the assless chaps..........

All chaps are assless by definition, unless of course you consider some of the individuals that wear them. ;)

[Vealmonkey]

Excellent observation.

[TimSr]

SAY WHAT??!!! I was with you right up till then Tim! LOL!

Clinton is our Secretary of State. Kirsten Gillibrand is the other US senator representing NY.

LOL! Senior moment! I guess her tenure as Sec of State has been about as memorable as her time as senator. I've never been able to get it out of my head that any state would ever elect a senator who never lived in the state until fiing to run.

[riverrat]

I applaud your efforts and wish you luck in making the video. Maybe it will convince somebody, maybe it won't but it can't do any harm and will add one more positive video to youtube.

As for picking a fight with the federal government on behalf of all trikers, if you are successful in lobbying them to re-write ATV regulations there are 3 possible outcomes.

1. New regulations could be more favorable to trikes.
2. New regulations could be less favorable to trikes.
3. New regulations may have little or no impact.

Which outcome is most likely? Doesn't really matter. The point is that even if #2 is even a very remote possibility, you are gambling with everyone's rights, not just yours, and I really don't think you have an ethical right to do that without a consensus supporting it.

If you can get the offices of either of your US Senators, just one, to agree that relaxing regulations on three wheeled or any other kind of ATV needs a 2nd look, I will throw 100% support behind you. Sen. Clinton and Sen. Shumer are reasonable people who are open to being educated. Heck, I'll even settle for your district Representative, and I don't even know who it is.

Thank you TimSr. I am not sure who you are, but if you are the one responsible for running or starting the OTC, then I really respect your opinions. Basically there was only one thing that could have stopped me from doing this, and it just happened. I hear what everyone is saying here, let sleeping dogs lie, and I understand it, and I agree with it. But there is this side of me that likes to fight for what is right no matter the cost. For me it can't get any worse. There isn't a public trail to ride on for 180 miles from my house, 3 wheelers are looked upon as the devil most times, and it is getting harder and harder to justify running one. Ever since the day when this whole thing started I've had a knot in my stomach about it. It just defines the whole problem with America these days.

Oh and scootertrash, with this recent development, OWS and trike riders have more in common than just what the media does to us. The whole idea is hold for now. I won't do it without the support of certain key players in the trike world.

[250Roger]

My family and I do our best EVERYTIME we ride to shine a positive light on 3 wheeling. We don't drink and ride, ride on paved roads (unless designated for atv travel). Whether we are at the dunes, trails or our own backyard we ride courteously, answer any questions and have even gone so far as to offer rides to experienced riders of other off road vehicles. If there are people in need we are always there to offer a hand. I (We) have been doing this since the 80's.. That is good enough for us.

If we ALL conducted ourselves responsibly back in the 80's, this would all be a moot point..

There are members of this site who think it's okay to ride without any working brakes, or ride their 3 wheeler drunk.. I will never be lumped in with those knuckleheads...

I agree 100% with this. I am a courtious rider as well. I always give the right of way to other riders going inthe opposite direction (I even stop & shut off the engine if people are horseback riding until they pass). Have never been under any influence of any kind of substance while riding. The adrenaline (sp) rush of a power band would kill any "buzz" anyway.

[Scootertrash]

Oh and scootertrash, with this recent development, OWS and trike riders have more in common

Please enlighten me/us. I'd like to hear your reasoning. What is this recent development you speak of? Is it because the majority of other trikers aren't jumping on your OTS (Occupy Trike Seat) bandwagon?

I'm not dissing you here, I would really like to know.

[dcreel]

I don't get it either.. the wife and I work hard for our money to buy trikes. I don't earn trike money squatting on someone else's property whining about what I supposedly deserve. If I want something I work hard for the money to go get it..

They need to get on the OAJ bandwagon... Occupy A Job..

[350XJEDI]

:rolleyes: you got to be joking , bringing this up with the gov. could never end well ! trikers have nothing in commen with ows ,we respect others property, we WORK, we dont trash the public parks !! costing the TAX paying people more then we all ready paid!!:crazy: I dont think trying to reverse the old ban makes any sense, nobody is going to jump into production anyways, better to join the atv/4x4 lobby to try and keep trails and puplic land open , lets not waste effort try something that will only backfire in our faces . most people dont care about atc's but more care about keeping access to puplic trails /land open for all types of recreation.so lets focus on that realistic goal and not some fantasie!!!:cool:

[ATC-Eric]

better to join the atv/4x4 lobby to try and keep trails and puplic land open



In my mind, this is the ONLY post worth taking from this whole thread. I agree, I don't think there's a battle to win with trikes. Nobody cares about them anymore, "most" people don't even remember they still exist. The most productive thing that can be done is to join the ongoing CURRENT battle that is being fought as we speak. The banning of side by sides, and to keep riding areas open are 2 big issues that come to mind.

[Scootertrash]

They need to get on the OAJ bandwagon... Occupy A Job..

As opposed to OMB?? (Occupy Moms Basement?)

[TimSr]

I propose we drop "rednecks" and "occupy" from discussion in this thread as its an irrelevant distraction, and that maybe some of Riverrat's fellow New Yorkers can assist in focusing that positive energy to some specific concerns, and a realistic way to make gains in that area, whether its trail riding, racing, public riding areas, or simply private areas open to the public. I wll be more than happy to help figure out and focus a logical plan of attack to move it along, help identify who holds the power to make the power to make it happen or change it, and help identify what other groups and clubs may already be working towards it. That kinf of energy and desire to make improvements should not be tabled simply because "we can't win" but rather refocused and organized to specific ares in which we CAN win.

[Chazz of Blades]

How about we all stop bickering and OATS.



Occupy A Trike Seat.

[riverrat]

I don't get it either.. the wife and I work hard for our money to buy trikes. I don't earn trike money squatting on someone else's property whining about what I supposedly deserve. If I want something I work hard for the money to go get it..

They need to get on the OAJ bandwagon... Occupy A Job..

dcreel, saying what you just said is like circle jerk, or irony, or something that just doesn't make sense. It just shows how you are the victim of the media's portrayal of OWS Of course, just like trike riders, and every other facet of life, there are those that are disrespectful and really don't represent what trike riding, or OWS are about. The point is that the media will only focus on the bad, because the owners of the media have much to lose if the OWS message gets through. Not just the owners of the media, but a lot of unfairly run big business, and the government that let's it run that way. We are not talking about people who make an honest living, or attacking people just because they are rich, or big. We are talking about companies, and government that take advantage of hard working people like you and me. You should understand that. See the rest of this message for more...


Please enlighten me/us. I'd like to hear your reasoning. What is this recent development you speak of? Is it because the majority of other trikers aren't jumping on your OTS (Occupy Trike Seat) bandwagon?

I'm not dissing you here, I would really like to know.

I do feel like you have been attacking me this thread, just because you have this incorrect opinion of OWS. I didn't post the recent development right away, because I wanted to get the persons permission to repost what he said. Unfortunately I hope I am not opening up another can of worms here, but in the interest of this whole trike ban crap, I am going to get it out anyway. Please understand, I am not taking anyone's side.

The only thing that would have stopped me, was if what I was about to do would harm someone's current effort at building trikes, somoeone like TPC trikes, or the like (some of the atc70 sites). The owner of TPC trikes is banned from this site for life. Now I don't really care about that situation, that is none of my business. But, the owner of TPC trikes pm'd me on .org and did some explaining to me about the ban, and asked me to let sleeping dog's lie.

Now as we all know, there was no actual government ban in the 80's, it was a consent decree act, which was drawn up by Honda's lawyers, and the big 5 agreed to it. According to him, they were going to phase out 3 wheelers anyway. Better to sacrifice 3 wheelers, and continue making 4 wheelers.

The owner of TPC trikes got Carmen Cafro (5 time S.C.O.R.E. champion and multi time 1000, 500 winner) and they approached Sal Fish the head of S.C.O.R.E. to race a TPC in the baja 1000, Sal told them that unless Honda ( a major sponsor for the race) said it was ok, no 3 wheeler would ever race the 1000.

Now someone asked if even if the ban was reversed, would anyone ever make a 3 wheeler again? But if you remember, there was a company that started making trikes again a few years ago. I believe this is the one: http://www.atvriders.com/gallery/2007indydealerexpophotogallery/pages/KE2F0148.html
(http://www.atvriders.com/gallery/2007indydealerexpophotogallery/pages/KE2F0148.html)It was right after that, that this new proposed ban appeared. Want to know why? well there is accusations that Honda was the one who influenced it(the new ban). Mr. Honda does not want any trikes to ever be made again, either by him or anyone else. Honda sold the molds to make these 125cc engines that were on these trikes to the Chinese company making them, and I am sure once Honda got wind, that they had enough influence to stop it, and enough influence with our government to have them propose it in a ban.

Sounds like corruption doesn't it? How does any company have a right to influence CPSC rules? It's just more government, and big business corruption, and that is what OWS is fighting against. The second thing in common we have with them.

Now putting aside comparisons for the rest of this thread, like TimSr proposed we can move forward. I will start a OWS thread, and we can go over what they stand for, and you guys can tell me why you support, or don't support them.

There was a lot more that he told me. He was warned that Honda's lawyers better not find out what he is doing (if they don't already know). He, or any other small 3 wheeler part supplier or conversion company does not have the resources to fight against Honda. It is currently not illegal to reproduce, produce, or convert any three wheeler parts or machines

My question to him was, what are you going to do when they eventually do come for him.

This whole thing just pisses me off more. To outline it:
1. We have the original idiots who behaved irresponsibly and got the attention of the pediatrics society that got the ball rolling
2. We have the media that blew it all out of proportion
3. We have the government that pressured 3 wheel makers into agreeing not to make them anymore
4. We have Honda who went along with it
5. Now we have possible corruption that would prevent you me or anyone else from ever making a three wheeler again.
6. The possibility remains that any conversion or reproduction of three wheeler parts could be banned in the future.

If there was a way to prove this corruption, I believe we could fight it, and put an end to any ban ideas permanently.

Then through the long term efforts of people like TimSr and everyone who is trying to race and ride responsibly, and through informational videos, we can turn it around, and maybe one day everyone will know the truth. I was told that even in the original CPSC reports that the CPSC does not actually blame the machine?. I think the biggest problem was that little kids were getting hurt riding machines that they shouldn't have been on. That will draw negative attention to any hobby, once kids start getting hurt. I agree with that. But again, it wasn't the machines fault. It was the irresponsible parents, and dealers that were selling these things as "safe". No off-road vehicle is "safe". No motorized vehicle is "safe". But the American government, or any big companies influence or said government shouldn't have a right to take it away from us, even if Honda did start it.

I am not going to do anything that would hurt the livelihood of TPC, or any other trike companies, without their support. The owner of TPC completely agrees with me, and it is his goal to eventually turn this thing around.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

In going along with TimSr's suggestion, here is a great place to start! http://tughilladirondacksatv.com/tughilladirondacksatvassociation/index.htm

They along with a few clubs are VERY diligently working to maintain and expand the existing ATV trail system in northern NY. It's not a trike specific group, but ATV in general. Trikes are completely welcome on Tug so long as you are registered, insured and wearing the bucket. All money generated from membership STAYS with the clubs and TughillAdirondack ATV Association. (Unlike the snowmobile funding....)

I'm sure I will be hitting the hill numerous times this summer and would be glad to show some of my fellow 3WW members around up there whether they are from NY or not. If you don't mind sleeping in a tent I have access to a small piece of property. I just ask that the group be small and not big time party animals as I don't own the property myself and I want to treat it and the owner with the utmost respect so as not to abuse the privilege.

There will be an event called the SNIRT Run on April 14th. It usually has some snow leftover so you can ride a sled or a wheeler, but it looks like it will just be a dirt run this year. I plan on going with a couple of family members. Would likely be unloading at the Timberview Lodge in Turin NY. If a couple of you guys might be interested PM me.

I'll probably just ride the wife's Z400 that day to keep it simple. I don't have the 350r broken in or jetted in yet and it's not likely I will at that point....

[TimSr]

In going along with TimSr's suggestion, here is a great place to start! http://tughilladirondacksatv.com/tughilladirondacksatvassociation/index.htm

They along with a few clubs are VERY diligently working to maintain and expand the existing ATV trail system in northern NY. It's not a trike specific group, but ATV in general. Trikes are completely welcome on Tug so long as you are registered, insured and wearing the bucket. All money generated from membership STAYS with the clubs and TughillAdirondack ATV Association. (Unlike the snowmobile funding....)




This is great! This is the kind of positive thing I was talking about that actually gets things accomplished. Notice they have a list of participating clubs right on their front webpage. You can still be a trike group that parts of a bigger group. A handful of trikers could give their group a name, participate, be public and have their own club name listed there, become known and earn respect, and a few years later pick up the phone and have instant access to any of the clubs listed there, and after a while, clubs that aren't listed there. Thats how it starts, folks! I'm relieved that after this big long hairpulling thread, somebody gets it! Thank you RIDE-RED 250r.

[riverrat]

I live in southern NY, and this is probably one of those places that are 180 miles from my house. I will look into it a little more though. TimSr, having a place to ride, and the trike ban are two different subjects, but the bad light on trikes only makes finding a place to ride that much more difficult. Some places don't allow three wheelers because of that. I've been at this a while with a bunch of friends, and we are all sick of it.

##EDIT##
246 miles from my house.