Teach me to solder! (electrical)

[fabiodriven]

I have no idea what I'm doing wrong here. I've soldered many times with plumbing and had no issues. I can weld, I can use an oxy/acetylene torch with no problems, but I cannot make electrical solder work.

When I work on 12v electrical stuff I usually just used high quality butt-splices that are made of heat-shrink material. I gave up on electrical soldering years ago after many failed attempts and these butt-splices have been pretty great for a long time now. I had a situation recently however, that the butt-spices weren't going to work. If this job was going to be done right I would have to solder it. So I go to the hardware store and buy the soldering gun, solder, heat shrink, and a heat gun. I get the wires really hot, apply the solder, and it puddles up and stays on the friggin gun every time. IT WILL NOT PENETRATE INTO MY WIRES! I've gotten the wires so hot before that the heat shrink 2" up the wire has shrunk and the wire's insulation material melts, but the friggin solder won't stick. The solder is electrical solder. They sold two different ratios- One was 60-40 tin/lead and the other was vice-versa. I read the packages for each carefully and there was nothing that said what the difference between the two is, they're virtually worded identical.

So yesterday I figured I had come up with a solution. "Use flux!" I tell myself. (The solder is flux cored) So I get back at it using the flux on the wires this time figuring that would fix everything. Welp, all that did was make my wires slippery and harder to handle.

WTF AM I DOING WRONG HERE?!?!?!

[dcreel]

I don't know if this will help or not but I have always put my gun on one side of the wire to heat and the solder on the other side of the wire after it is heated. That way the solder has to go through the wire to get towards the soldering gun if that makes any sense.

[just ben]

put the solder on the wires not the gun tip. I put a drop of liquid flux on also.It may not be needed but it works for me edit.. doug and I were typing at the same time lol. But thats how it's done

[Scootertrash]

I use a pencil type soldering iron and a damp sponge to keep the tip clean. :naughty:

Even with rosin/flux core solder I still use solder paste. I figure it can't hurt.

You can also tin the wires first, but it makes it hard to twist them together. If you twist the joint together you have a much better mechanical bond than just a lap joint. ;)

I rarely use those crimp style connectors any more, the only exception is when I need a blade type connection for a fuse block or lighting connection. Even when I use the crimp style connectors I solder them.

Here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLfXXRfRIzY

[fabiodriven]

OK, that is exactly what I was trying to do and that is nothing at all like the results I'm getting.^^^

[xman2rman]

Make sure your tip is clean like scooter said. I also use paste flux with flux core solder. I put a dab of paste on my wire, heat it up then dip my solder wire in the paste flux and melt it to the wire, not the gun tip. As soon as it melts, pull the gun tip away and it should be good. It sounds like your problem is just a lack the connection being clean, which the paste flux should fix. What are you trying to solder? Two wires together, wires and connectors or electronics? The reason I ask is because I have better luck with a micro butane torch for wires and connections. The only thing I use my electric gun for anymore is electronics. Hope it helps!

[DasUberKraut]

I solder on a daily basis. Make sure you're not using lead free solder. That stuff is a PIA.

Don't breathe flux fumes!

[El Camexican]

The way I was taught is to put the wires together, put flux on them and if possible heat from the bottom while gently resting the solder wire on the top. When a sufficient amount of heat has passed though the wire the solder will flow over the whole thing. Make sure you use the right diameter of solder wire, that 1/8" copper pipe stuff is way too thick for small wire and will absorb all the heat out of the wire instead of melting on it.

[Big Mike]

The way I do it, is twist the wires together nice and tight, put my iron underneath the wire and then just place the solder on the top, let it heat, and melt, then once it is puddled and drawn in, remove iron, and quickly flick the wire to remove the excess solder, do a quick tug to make sure joint is good and slide my heat shrink over and let it melt. All done, next.

[dksix]

What size wire are you trying to solder? Bigger wire, like over 10ga is hard to get hot through and through with an gun and almost impossible with the common 30 or 40 watt iron.Did you buy an iron or gun? Used to, they made irons up to 120 watts, now all I can ever find is 40 watt irons and they don't get hot enough for me. Guns get hotter but are awkward unless you are working on a bench. As already said, lead free solder sucks (it's the cause of most laptop failures). Clean the tip then "tin" it ( I don't explain stuff well, here's a link http://www.instructables.com/id/Soldering-101%3A-Lesson-1%3A-Tin-the-Tip/ . Get the wire hot, drag a little solder from the iron tip over the the hot wire and then the solder will start to flow. You have a good solder joint when the solder on.in the wirre is dull, not shinny. If you just don't have any luck with the iron/gun....cheat and get a mini torch.

[atc007]

All great advice. I clean EVERYTHING I work on w ether first,,hence all my forgotten brain cells{ lack of wearing gloves : ( } It'll stick then. Bottom line,,you more than likely have a " dirty" tip,,not making enough heat. PITA ,,when all is right,,,couldn't be easier. Get a fresh tip and give er a whirl.

[zzmegad]

i know you already bought the gun so thats done but I really love a weller 30/40 watt or so iron for doing small/medium wires. rosin core solder. the flux paste is not needed but makes for super easy super strong joints. if you use flux put a little on each piece and then hit with the iron to melt it a little, then a little solder on each, then hold em together and hit it again, blow on it to get it to harden quickly. it's amazing how good the flux paste works, i grin every time. I did RC cars as a kid, now I solder every electrical repair I do, it's great fun.

[El Camexican]

blow on it to get it to harden quickly - i grin every time - it's great fun. We're still talking about soldering, right?:naughty:

[zzmegad]

yeah ha i got excited there, well actually I forgot how good that flux paste actually works. other day i was doing some work on the wiring of my lawn mower and grabbed the paste because of some nasty terminals, man I put a little on a wire and its like a magnet for the solder, it just surrounds the wire and fills in through all the strands within a second, from now on I think I'll take the extra time to use the paste

[300rman]

I solder/desolder electrical board stuff all the time.

First, TIN your solder tip (sand hot tip, then apply solder to tip)

Touch soldering iron to twisted together wires.

test heat by touching solder to the wire near the iron tip. When it gets hot enough, it will start to melt. Be sure to use rosin core solder. I rarely use paste flux.
Dont touch the solder to the iron directly. It will usually not work well while you are learning. I sometimes do it to help the heat transfer to the wire faster, but doing this can be tricky.

After the solder starts flowing into the wire, the heat spreads faster through the wire. This is also the purpose of tinning the tip of the iron, it transfers the heat faster. I personally have my soldering iron set up with a small "cup" in the tip that holds about a drop of solder in it. The solder never transfers to the wire, but it serves for faster heat transfer. That tip is nearly useless for electronic boards, but it is perfect for using it when joining wiring.

If you cant get the solder to stick to the wire, try a different type of rosin-core solder. I rarely have the issue you have mentioned. Also, soldering is much easier to learn on fine stranded wire. soldering the thicker or non-stranded wire is a bit tricky.

DONT get the wire too hot. Too hot of wire before you start to apply the solder will cause the solder to not stick. It is almost like the extreme heat will oxidize the wire.....but then again, I can solder fine-stranded speaker wire with a mapp-gas plumbing torch in a pinch.....only thing that I cant use is a BIC, the flame is too dirty. You need a torch-style flame. (if you are soldering with fire as the heat source)

[Dirtcrasher]

Piece of cake Johnny, you'll get it....

Heat shrink tubing place a bit further back, then placed over you work when your done makes a great connection.

Your welcome to swing by as I can screw off the next few days :)

Oh, I forgot; I have never used any paste on wires, just copper pipe joints. Keep it clean clean clean.......

Thats just my experiences with it.

EDIT - the biggest deal is to "tin" both wires first, or get solder on the 2 wires, they you barely touch them and you have a good connection........ Get them ho and the solder will melt right into it.

[Xpress]

Great to know there's so many around here that can solder.

Pretty much everything that can be said about soldering has been stated. Larger gauges of wire are going to need more heat (moreso than a typical 25w iron can put out) to tin. I have never really used flux, I don't like the odor of the stuff (it f*cks my sinuses up even if I get the faintest whiff) so you honestly don't really need it. The best thing to learn how to solder with is good quality speaker wire. Solder sticks to the stuff like mad, make sure you are using a good quality rosin core solder as well and have at it. Do a lot of testing beforehand. Tinning one wire, tinning spliced wires, tinning 2 sets of wires then bonding them together, etc.

[dksix]

300rman, you explained what I was trying to say very well. I have never thought of a cup on the end of the tip but that's what I meant when I said touch the tip with solder then drag a little to the wire. As soon as that drop hits the wire the heat transfer increases about 100X's. A couple other things: The looser you twist the wire the easier the solder will flow into it. Like for splices in long wires, like in harnesses, I like the over lap the wires and twist them together instead of ends to ends then twisting. The pull the heat tubing down in to and it just leaves a fat place in the length of wire, looks like a knocked up snake, lol.

[Billy Golightly]

My (incorrect) method has always been to melt the solder on the gun and drip it off onto the wires. Its worked so far.

[Scootertrash]

My (incorrect) method has always been to melt the solder on the gun and drip it off onto the wires. Its worked so far.

I've done that too when I don't have three hands. Make a little blob on the iron, touch it to the wires and presto!

[Angore]

I don't have three hands.


I posted this in another thread , but figured it may be of some help here .

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j343/32364/001-16.jpg

[Dirtcrasher]

I told you, just bring it over Johnny. I'll make heads or tails of it!!

[fabiodriven]

Thanks a lot to everybody.

I would bring it by Steve, but I've already finished that project for the moment. I just did the best I could (which was ugly as all hell) and then covered it up with the heat-shrink.

Based on what I've been reading, my method was a little off. It doesn't seem that far off from what you guys are telling me to do, but it must have been far enough off to mess things up. I think my copper could have been cleaner as well. I didn't want to cut back too far to get to the clean copper as I was short on wire and couldn't afford to cut back much farther.

Again, thank you all for your help!

[Scootertrash]

Sometimes I use a little steel wool, scotchbrite, or sandpaper to clean up the wires

[Dirtcrasher]

Depending on the solder iron, it can be difficult to get the 2 wires hot enough.

Again, everything you can buy now is junk; My iron was from my dad 30 years ago.

It's not always easy to butt the 2 ends together as you try to heat them up.

It just goes back to all this crap made now-a-days......

[El Camexican]

It just goes back to all this crap made now-a-days...... A sad, sad fact.

[300rman]

I bought my soldering iron 10 years ago at Big Lots for 2 dollars. It is still hot enough to solder with in about a minute, and it solders wires together seconds after contact, and you can solder 30 wires in a row, no problem (I've done it on several occasions). Cant get much cheaper than two bucks!

[Xpress]

A sad, sad fact.

Isn't that the truth? I'm only 20 and I know that...

Does anyone else have a problem with the tips being eaten away? Mine always do that, need to buy a good high quality adjustable iron...

[300rman]

Isn't that the truth? I'm only 20 and I know that...

Does anyone else have a problem with the tips being eaten away? Mine always do that, need to buy a good high quality adjustable iron...

I think its the Flux that eats away at the tip over time. Thats actually how I discovered the little "cup" in the tip works out awesome.