Quad-Z vs TRX250R

[TimSr]

I finally got it, but havent had much chance to give it a REAL test. All I can say is Yamaha should have built one of these.

Wheelbase is about identical.
Center of gravity is about identical.
250R front end is beefier with more suspension travel.
Quad-Z has tighter turning radius.
Quad-Z steering is a little higher.
Rear suspension is about the same.
Quad-Z front end width will be about the same as soon as I get rid of the huge offset from the front rims. Same with rear when I add offset rims.

Ive only ridden it for a couple of short test runs, but the Z has noticeably better low end, which should be even more noticeable when its geared down to reality where I can use it. For top end, Id have to flip a coin.

I may have to do some engineering to change spindle assemblies so I can run Banshee brake assemblies unless somebody can identify a similar brake pad I can use as replacements.

[TimSr]

http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/quads1.jpg

http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/quads2.jpg

http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/quads3.jpg

http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/quads4.jpg

http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/quads5.jpg

http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/quads6.jpg

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Sweet tim, keep us informed.

[J.D.]

Not to be mean, but the front plastic on the Z looks gay. If it looked better, like it belonged to the quad, I think it would look 100% better. Still looks pretty cool though.

[350Xccelerator]

do the right thing. make it a trike again.

[YAMAHA_Jim]

Nice score Tim sr. How is that thing for tippin up on any wheel and riding around? :) Its a bit late now but I agree that yamaha shoulda built them along time ago. Are you gonna race HS and MX with it?
Goodluck with it.

[Rod]

I can't believe i'm going to say it but I actually like the looks! I do agree though, the front plastic does look a little pieced togther but overall I don't think it looks to bad at all.

[Dynofox]

I also think it looks pretty bad ass, a lot better without the headlights. I have a pic of a black and red Z in an old dirtwheels with that astro kit on it and I think it looks pretty sweet.

[TimSr]

TriZ Jim hit it on the head. I got this to compete in Harsecrambles and MX, not to sit back and admire it. I dont think its going to be anything close to a Blaster as a stunt machine, though.

I pulled the front Protrax off my 250R, and put on it. At the same time, I redrilled vlave stem holes, and flipped the rims, so now its actually about 2" narrower than the R. I replaced the 42T rear sprocket with a 46. To my shock, i had no extra fronts, but I want to drop it to an 11 or 12. The twist throttle probably needs to go. Its okay for HS, but I dont like it for MX at all.

Goku - Inannimate objects cannot be gay, other than a few exceptions. Examples would be, your blow up rubber man, your Ken doll, and your Michael Jackson action figure. LOL! JK! but you were asking for that one!

350X - Ive already got a Tri-Z, dont need another one. As I said, Im shooting for a semi-serious competitor, and it aint happening on a trike. I intend to run nit in a HS Dec 7.

[J.D.]

Goku - Inannimate objects cannot be gay, other than a few exceptions. Examples would be, your blow up rubber man, your Ken doll, and your Michael Jackson action figure. LOL! JK! but you were asking for that one!

HEY! YOU PROMISED YOU WOULDN'T TELL! :evil: :evil:

Should the general public hear about our wild night? :twisted: :twisted:

[84250r]

Give it to me I'll take her back! :)

I think it doesnt look the best but,,,your choice.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

One time I talked to the owner of trenga racing on the phone (he lives like 25 miles away from me), and he said that he never knew why yamaha just didnt put the tri-z engine in a quad and call it the Blaster.

[smokinwrench]

As I said, Im shooting for a semi-serious competitor,

What was wrong with the trxR in hare scrambles? Do you think this quad will outperform it?

Josh

[TimSr]

NOW its a harescrambler!

TriZ Pilot, dropping a high performance liquid cooled TriZ or YZ motor in a budget Blaster chassis doesnt address its biggest problems that put it in a different category than the TRX250R, and would have only added a higher price to a quad aimed at the budget market. The wheelbase is way too short, the suspension systems way too poor, and until recently, they were even equipped with mechanical brakes. You could drop the motor of your choice in it, and the TRX250R would cream it an any competition beyond straight line drags with eual riders. Its not the motor that makes a Blaster a weaker competitor.

Smokinwrench, The TRX250R has been great in both MX and Harescrambles. Its been a little weak on low end power (to me), but Im sure Id never have even known it had I not had a TriZ to compare it to. It still does a great job on HS, but compared to the new MX quads out there now, a stock R is pretty lame for MX without sinking serious money into it. I do not expect this quad to perform any better than the 250R.

I had several things in mind when I got this. Ive always been a Yamaha fan, and wished they would have made something to compete with the TRX250R, LT250R, and Tecate 4. Ive actaully been wtching for a junk Blaster for over a year, because I was going to build my own. Problem is the geometry was all wrong and I was looking at huge modifications to try and retrofit the TriZ rear end on the Blaster chassis, and then I was still going to need forward extended A-Arms to try to get the longer wheelbase needed. I was looking at a lot of work and money.
When I saw this, it seemed to be exactly what I was looking for. First Im thinking money. If I buy this as a suitable and competitive replacement for my R for $1500, I should be able to sell my 250R for over twice that. Also, what would make a better competition compliment to my TriZ? And If only have to stock one set of spare parts that actually fit both my trike and my quad. Also, in a pinch, I can aways "borrow" spare parts.
Thats the practical side. On the other side, lots of people run 250Rs. I want something nobody else has, not to give me some kind of advantage, but just to be different. The same people that see me racing the TriZ will also be seeing me race the Quad-Z, the anti-Honda.
All in all, I see myself with about $1500 extra dollars in hand, doing the same things Im doing now, and riding the quad Ive always wanted.

[smokinwrench]

Thanks for the explaination, I understand why you bought. I ride a atc for the same reason to be different the spare parts reason is good to. I think it looks good. Can you buy a new front fender for it if that one breaks?

Is your R going to be forsale soon? I might be interested.

Josh

[TimSr]

Finding new plastic is not likely! It does resemble Suzuki plastic a lot though, but the side shrouds are part of the assembly so I know its custom. I guess with Maier making detachable front fenders now, Im sure I could rig something up if I needed to, or I could hack them
off like all the "cool" guys do and get a face full of mud every time I turn.
Im more concerned about getting brake pads. They are light duty pads to begin with and I normally go through a half dozen sets a year. These are very small and Ive never seen any like them to replace them with. Ive got a complete set of Banshee spindle assemblies which would be the ultimate fix, but it will require some serious ball joint retrofitting, and "engineering".
My R will be for sale very soon, just as soon as I get done "raping" it. I took the tires, the new O-Ring chain, and the I will gear it back up to stock. I may even put the stock pipe back on, and sell the ESR Pipe separately. It will be fully runable, but wont have all my custom setup goodies on it.

[Billy Golightly]

Hey TimSr, if you decide to sell that ESR pipe seperately, let me know. Might be interested in it.

[Trikeaholic]

Smokinwrench, The TRX250R has been great in both MX and Harescrambles. Its been a little weak on low end power (to me), but Im sure Id never have even known it had I not had a TriZ to compare it to. It still does a great job on HS, but compared to the new MX quads out there now, a stock R is pretty lame for MX without sinking serious money into it. I do not expect this quad to perform any better than the 250R.

I had several things in mind when I got this. Ive always been a Yamaha fan, and wished they would have made something to compete with the TRX250R, LT250R, and Tecate 4. Ive actaully been wtching for a junk Blaster for over a year, because I was going to build my own. Problem is the geometry was all wrong and I was looking at huge modifications to try and retrofit the TriZ rear end on the Blaster chassis, and then I was still going to need forward extended A-Arms to try to get the longer wheelbase needed. I was looking at a lot of work and money.
When I saw this, it seemed to be exactly what I was looking for. First Im thinking money. If I buy this as a suitable and competitive replacement for my R for $1500, I should be able to sell my 250R for over twice that. Also, what would make a better competition compliment to my TriZ? And If only have to stock one set of spare parts that actually fit both my trike and my quad. Also, in a pinch, I can aways "borrow" spare parts.
Thats the practical side. On the other side, lots of people run 250Rs. I want something nobody else has, not to give me some kind of advantage, but just to be different. The same people that see me racing the TriZ will also be seeing me race the Quad-Z, the anti-Honda.
All in all, I see myself with about $1500 extra dollars in hand, doing the same things Im doing now, and riding the quad Ive always wanted.

I was in complete HORROR when I saw this post until I read this part. Go get em TimSr!!!

[smokinwrench]

I could hack them
off like all the "cool" guys do and get a face full of mud every time I turn.


My R will be for sale very soon, just as soon as I get done "raping" it.

I thought it was just a dune rider thing to cut off the front fenders. I have never understood that.

I like the sounds of that (raped) it should make the price tag a little cheaper. I was wondering if you could pm or email me a estimated price of it, when you do sell it.

[350XXX]

i know this kinda defeats the purpose of the "anti-honda" idea, but could you have retrofit tri-z motor into a trx frame and accomplished tha same thing? i'm not trying to cut on the thing, its pretty neat. it just seems to me that if you break something on your setup it will cost you alot more to fix than if you had a trx frame which has many more aftermarket parts available.but i guess thats why they make more than one atv, personal choice. if your happy with it, then tahts all that matters. i personally would just like to find a tri-z for sale when i have the money.lol. good lick with it and keep us poated on how the long term test works out for ya.

(do we have spell check?lol. if not we need it)

[TimSr]

350xx - If I put a TriZ motor on a 250R chassis, Id have a 250R with a TriZ motor. An expensive and difficult venture and not much gained. A 250R rolling chassis is worth more than the whole Quad-Z which I paid $1500 for. Everything from the gooseneck back is true Yamaha. I can actually call it a Yamaha.

Last weekend we went out, and I gave it the true test. Conditions were very muddy, too.
Its low end power was truely awesome, as Ive come to expect from the Z. The 5 speed tranny gears were spaced a little farther apart than I like for trail riding, but perfect for MX. I like the 6 speed on my TriZ better for trail riding.
Its handled great, but steering was a little tighter (more responsive) than my TRX250R, so you need to be careful, but on the other hand its turns a much tighter circle, because the steering stops are adjustable.
Suspension was pretty good, and it rode nice, until I started jumping with it, after which I found the front bottoming very easily. I cranked up the preload and solved the the jumping problem, but it give it a much rougher ride, so itll be set back down for trail riding, and cranked up for MX. The A-Arms are shorter than the TRX250R, and it has less front end travel. Rear suspension is stock TriZ other than the Warrior shock, and its every bit equal to the 250R in that area.
The powerband on the Z has much more on the bottom, and more on the top, with less midrange than the 250R, keeping mind I was running a ESR TRX6 low end pipe on the R. The 250R has more of a straight line linear powerband all the way up, while the Z hits hard at the bottom, and is like punching "tubo boost" at the top. The Z has very noticeably more vibration.
All in all, the TRX250R front end and suspension are superior, which gives it an edge on handling, and a noticeable advantage on the MX track.
The Quad-Z will chew up and spit out the 250R when it comes to climbing, even with the 5 speed wider ratio tranny, which Ill probably put my spare 6 speed in, since Ill be a doing a lot more cross country, and less MX this year. The Quad-Z doesnt turn nearly as wide as the R, even though the front width is the same, which will also be an advantage on the tight wooded HS courses. The front brakes have issues that need to be addressed, and Im currently working on that problem. I may end up changing spindles and hubs if I can find something to work with these A-Arms.
If Yamaha had built this machine, and bracketed the front frame for Warrior or Banshee A-Arms, spindles and hubs and brakes, I believe Honda would have sold a lot less 250R's. Im not saying it would have been superior to the R, but close enough to keep the Honda company on its toes.
Im very happy with the machine as a suitable replacement for the 250R. Given some time, and enough parts passing through my possession, and Ill even evetually have a front end Im satisfied with. As it is right now, it wnt MX as well as my R, but Ill be able to run a faster HS.

[TimSr]

We hit the practice session at the Summit Co. Oh Fairfgrunds yesterday, for this weekend's indoor MX. I finally got to put the Quad-Z through the first major test. It took me several session on the track to get it dialed in, but now Im much happier and more confident in it, and it exceeded all expectations. My only complaint is inadequate front suspension and travel, which is inferior to my TRX250R. I also had two major surprises. The first being it actually corners much better than the R, and I was not expecting this at all. The other surprise was how well the 5 speed gear ratios worked, and how much low end it had. It took me a while, but one thing that was slowing me was how much shifting I was doing, until I finally figured out that I did not need to shift nearly as much as I thought I did, because of the low end. Bad habits I learned from the R. It did not have as much midrange or nearly as much top end as the R, but that was hardly a factor in getting around the track at the fasted rate possible. Ill really know when we line up at the gate this weekend, but I think its gonna pull a lot better holeshot than the R did. Sure seemed that way in practice.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Cool, glad to hear that the quad-z is standing up to your expectations, keep us posted.

[hondatrikesrule22]

:shock: Hey Tim SR,that quad-z is awesome!I have a question, does anyone still make the missile kits? About how much would it cost,and does anyone have any pics? Sorry to get off topic,I just didn't wanna take up any more room on here creating a new topic.

[TimSr]

I have no idea about the missile kits, but Id suggest a fat cat or Big Wheel would be a lot less expensive if you can find one. Ill also say, I spent half a day on my buddy's Yamaha Big Wheel, and its the most poor handling, poor steering awful thing Ive ever ridden. It makes a poor bike, and a poor ATV. Granted, it was fun to ride around on, but the idea of driving it with with a 250cc 2 stroke in it is pretty scary. I guess somebody out there must have liked them, although they were pretty short lived, and not real popular.

[Yardbird]

I had never seen a Tri-Z with that good of a modification done to it. I think it looks pretty good and not all goofy looking like some I've seen. I ran across another conversion in the Trader online just today after seeing yours. Does yours have the same factory conversion? Here is a pic of the one I saw and they want $2200 for it. So I'm thinking you are getting a pretty good deal. Good luck on your racing ventures and please keep us informed becuase it is very interesting.
http://images.traderonline.com/img/5/plcnad/3516006/63187548_1.jpg

[TimSr]

Wow, that one has the same conversion kit as mine!! $2200 is a little steep, though. They just dont have a very high value. I bought mine from a guy who had tried to sell it on ebay several times, and couldnt hit a $2000 reserve. In actual dollar value, its probably worth as much or maybe even more as a trike.

As far as performance, I raced on Sunday, and it way exceeded all expectations. The ONLY aspect in which it did not totally outperform my TRX250R on the MX track was front suspension. It was far superior on the holeshot, powersliding and cornering. This is the 5th year Ive run this track. In my class there were 4 riders and they combined us with the womens class in which there were 2 riders. We had a highly modified 250R, two highly modified 440 EX's, a 500 Predator, and a mostly stock Z 400, and me. The guy on the 250r always wins everything, and the 440 guys is almost always in the top 3. The Z400 guy Ive raced against on my R many times before, and its usually a coin toss on the more open tracks, but he usually beats me on tighter tracks. Same story with the woman on one of the 440's.
In spite of having to let off to drop my 2nd gear start wheelies, I was getting awesome holeshots, and pulling tighter corners than most of the field. Im still in awe over the fact that I was not having to shift down to powerslide like I had to with the R. The only place on the track, which turned out crucial, was a long stretch of small jumps, where you land on teh base of the next jump in front of you. This was the only place I was getting passed, and this was where I was losing so much ground. I had to pull the front high, and "set it down easy", rear wheels first so as to work around insufficient front suspension. I ended up with a 3rd and a 4th in my class, and 4th and 4th of the field. I got beat by the 250R, the two 440s the first race, and I got beat by the 250R, the guy on the 440, and the Z400 guy the second moto, which was a very close 3 way battle for 2nd place.
Im going to look into some Works shocks for the front, which may give me a little more travel. Im excited about using this as an MXer now. I was not expecting this kind of performance at all!

[Tri-Z Pilot]

As soon as you get the front suspension dialed, it sounds like you are going to be a force to be reckoned with. lol!

[TimSr]

Front Brake problem is now solved. A while ago I had the forsight to save an entire Banshee braking system. I welded new mounts on the splindles and fitted the Banshee calipers. The Banshee hub was too wide, and the disk was too small, and I couldnt get the calipers in close enough to work with it, so I used 250R hubs. Only problem with them was the have the same innner and outer bearing, and my spindles are tapered. As luck would have it, I had some spare TriZ front wheel bearings which happed to fit the 250R hubs, and had the right side inner diameter too. Then when I thought I was done, I used my OEM 250R front rims, and they were lightly rubbing the calipers. Of course this was after I mounted my tires!Luckily I had some aftermarket rims with more clearance, so I mounted my tires on them, and they work fine. Also As I was trying to troute the Banshee brake lines, I broke one of the steel ones, but about $5 later and a visit to NAPA, and I repalced both steel brake lines, but using the Banshee upper flex and coupler. The 250R lines would have worked better, but they had different connectors. Now the front end works great, and the only task left is front suspension and Ive found that 250X/300EX Works shocks will fit, and add a little more travel to the front.

http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/Zbrakes1.jpg
http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/Zbrakes2.jpg
http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/Zbrakes3.jpg

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Allright timsr, that is one hot setup!

[ATC crazy]

One word to sum it all up.....FUGLY :D :D

Other than the looks....she's beautiful. Good luck on your upcomming events ;)

[TimSr]

The orginal converison included using the TriZ headlight setup. It looked hidious. Im normally more practical than concerned about looks, but even I couldnt handle it! The 250R setup seems to foot the bill fine. I altered the bracket that was setup for the TriZ headlight setup, and adpted it to fit on the 250R bracket.

http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/4Zlight1.jpg
http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/4Zlight2.jpg
http://home.neo.rr.com/timtim/4Zlight3.jpg

[TimSr]

Well, these should be a nice addition, and have me about as satisfied as I can get. Just in time for this months indoor MX races too!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2458996146&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:US:6

[TimSr]

Suspension problem solved! The Works shock with res. give me over and inch of additional travel, and they performed excellent! Other than top end scream, the Quad-Z is now as good or superior performer to the TRX250R on the MX track in every way. Now Im fully satisfied with the change!