Just bought a 1983 Honda Atc 200

[Big-B]

Hey I just bought this 3 wheeler and was wondering why it is bogging down. I cleaned the carbeurator and everthing, I wonder if the compression is weak. How do you check the compression of the 3 wheller also when it dies it has a very strong gas smell. I am changing the oil out this week end anything else i need to do?

[kb0nly]

To check the compression you just need a gauge, available at just about any auto parts store, then its just a matter of screwing it in, in place of the spark plug, and cranking it over doing what the service manual suggests, etc.

If it dies with a strong gas smell then its likely it flooded. Make sure the float in the carb is working correctly, do you see and gas coming from the carb overflow tube?

[Big-B]

If the float is not working how do i fix that? I am going to the auto parts store and picking up a plug so i will get the compression gauge. I have no idea if gas is going in the over flow tube I don't know where that is. How much compression is it supposed to have. i have a manual and I believe it is the right one.

[remsandpets]

Welcome to the 3wheelerworld Big-B. I also have an 83 Honda 200. Download the service manual. It has everything you should ever need. You should be able to rent the compression gauge. Unless you just want to have one around. Just get one that screws into the spark plug hole, not one that has to be pushed in. Those are a pain in the ---. It does sound like a float stuck issue but that's me.

[kb0nly]

If the float is stuck its usually just the needle has some crud, i know you went through it but its not too uncommon to have some junk flow down from the tank or line after putting it back on, do you have a filter inline?

The gauge can be had really cheap if you look around, and yes get one that screws in. I found mine at a local Runnings Fleet and Farm store for $10, i have used it many times it paid for itself doing diagnostics on both trikes and cars. If you need a manual look below in my signature for my manual server link, should be one there for your model.

If the float is stuck though its very obvious, the bowl will overfill and you will see fuel coming out the bottom of the carb, out the drain hose if you have a hose on that fitting. If its not pouring out the overflow outlet then chances are its not a stuck float, could just be set too rich. Also make sure your needle has its retaining clip on the top side of the slide, its a little W shaped piece of metal that gets held down by the spring. Without that the needle can float up, though that generally causes the engine to rev as well, but if the mixture screw isn't set right it can just flood it out as well.

Basically your going to have to go over the carb, check the compression, check the valve adjustments, and work your way from there. At least it has spark and fires!

[Big-B]

I got the Manual that was great thank you!! I will definately work on it sat and see if this takes care of the Problem.

[Big-B]

Good news is i only paid a 100 bucks for the bike!

[Big-B]

I went to change the oil, and I opened the oil to see how bad it was cranked the 3 wheeler to warm it and it started shooting oil out from where you check the oil. little bitty spot all over the bike. Acts like I have a gunked up Top half. I really didn't want to do the rebuild but I guess I will have to! A guy down he road said he could bore it out and rebuild the top half for 200 in parts. Should i do that?

Also here is a pick of my bike

151830

[remsandpets]

If it is just splashing out in drops, its probably not because it needs rebuild. Its probably the crank splashing in the oil. Not a bad trike for ony $100. You got a deal. Paid 5 for mine. Are you planning on the seat after you get it running? I picked up a saddleman kit from amazon.com, foam and cover for 79. And change. Thru Bigbadpowersports.com. Of course I had to install ift and I'm sure mrs. Mosh's. Seat would have looked better. But you get what you pay for. Sometimes anyway.

[coolpool]

If I understand correctly you had oil coming out of the fill hole while it was running with the dipstick out? If so that's normal. Warm it up with the dipstick in, then drain it with it out. Don't go rushing into a rebuild.

[Big-B]

Just in question, do i need to buy a torch wrench to work on my bike or can I use just a regular socket set? Is it import to use the tork wrench?

[kb0nly]

Not bad for $100!! Looks pretty good!

A torque wrench is a good investment! The first time you snap off a bolt thats near impossible to replace you will be wishing you had a torque wrench to avoid those type of problems! They aren't that expensive. Problem is for working on things like these motors you need a low range torque wrench, i have one thats 2-35 ft lbs or something like that, most of the torque values you will encounter for case bolts and stuff like that is pretty low, most of which you can just snug up and its close enough.

Oil coming out while running is perfectly normal. There is a lot of oil splashing around in there. Have a brain fart like a buddy of mine did and take off without putting the dip stick back in after changing the oil, what a mess!

[Big-B]

I took the carb back off. It honestly looks like I never touched it. Would It be okay if I used Throttle body Cleaner to clean the carb or do I need to get some carb cleaner? Also I notice that the Choke was on full when I was crinking it, however when I turned the choke off it died. any ideas? Also, I need to get rid of some of my rust in my Gas tank. How do I do that? I Have heard of people using apple cider vinegar but I am sure there is better stuff out there.

If this doesn't work with the carb, would it be a good idea to just purchase a new one instead of rebuilding it ($ 17 for rebuild kit 27 for new carb.) Hopefully it will help some. It does look like there is some type of Inline filter on it??quesionable?? I see that they are inexpensive. I will get one if I don't have one, I don't think that is what that is. ( would the filter be about 2 inch from the gas tank on, off, reserve swich? Like a clear plastic piece? Would it be a good Idea to clean that line too? How would you clean that?

Also would it be a good Idea to take the top half of the motor off, where the valve cylinders are, and clean that Also? (Also what to use to clean it?) I need some O-rings for the carb and some hoses to run under the bike for the carb any place to get them just take a pice to a hardware store?

I am sorry this is quite a bit of questions! I really appreciate all of your comments and help it has been a great help!

[kb0nly]

Get some carb cleaner, and if you can find it at your local stores get some carb dip, its a little more agressive so strip the carb down and put all the metal parts in the dip to soak overnight. If you can't find dip get some carb cleaner, strip it down, get some small pieces of wire and go through all the holes etc. If its only running with the choke on most likely your idle circuit, the low speed jet and passages, are plugged up somewhere. What you described sounds like the filter, a clear plastic jobby between the valve and the carb. Does it have a lot of crud in it? I would take the tank off and flush it out, smack your hand on all the sides of the tank and try to rattle any loose crap out, rinse it out again with fresh fuel. As for treating it... There is lots of options. I know some guys have used The Works toilet bowl cleaner and there was just a post on here about using it, also someone posted a good soak in vinegar for a couple days as well.

What i would suggest is pull the tank and set it aside for now, get yourself a bottle and rig up a temporary gas tank to get the carb issues sorted out then go back to the tank later, one step at a time. I wouldn't tear into the top end of the motor unless there turns out to be something wrong with it. That can get spendy with gaskets and parts and time.

If any of the parts in the carb are questionable get a new carb!! I have bought a few of those chinese clones off ebay they work great, and being they are only slightly more then a rebuilt kit they are so so worth it. Its a lot easier to slap on a new carb and tune it then to mess around with a cruddy worn carb for days on end. For the o-rings and hoses you need you can get them anywhere, your local hardware or auto parts store nothing special about them.

[Big-B]

These are the two Items I bout for the 83 Honda 200, I believe they will be good buys. A piece was busted on the carb so I bout a new one. HONDA ATC 200E BIG RED AIR FILTER 1982-83 MOOSE M7632005(say's it's good for 83 honda 200), Carburetor Honda ATC200 ATC 200 1981 1982 1983 New Carb put them on this weekend hope and see how she runs.

[kb0nly]

Should run good with the new carb! You will still probably end up tweaking the mixture screw a bit i know i had to on my aftermarket carb. Get it running first and take it for a spin though and then pull the plug and see how its looking. You can learn a lot by reading a spark plug!

[Big-B]

The throttle valve on the new carb where you push the gas has no resistance. Like it isn't moving the needle up and down any clues

[yaegerb]

did you put the spring back in the top of the carb? Also make sure your slide is placed correctly in the carburetor throat.

[Big-B]

The Spring is in the top of the carb and the slide is placed in correctly. ON the troat, I pushed the wire through the hole at the top with the sping in it, ran it along the side of the throat with the slot it it and hooked it at the bottom of the throat. I do believe that is right. Could there be something wrong with the throttle cable coming from the pusher on the handle bars? something loose in that housing?..

Is there a tightner on the cable any where?

[remsandpets]

THAT is one hell of a rack on your 200. Is that OEM or custom made? How is the carb coming along?

[Big-B]

I think it was custom made My dad welds... carb good, other not to good.... where you press the button to lift the throttle valve is not working.. I know I put everything on right, i was just wondering if some thing was wrong with the cable or the housing on the handle bars....

[yaegerb]

you sure your slide is in the throat correctly? It can be 180 degrees out. Turn it 180 and see if it slides into the throat further.

[Big-B]

I am 100% positive. I made sure to do that when i put it on. I did what the sevice manual said. After you mention it I went back and checked it is all the way down 100%... I noticed that when I cleaned the old carb out.

[yaegerb]

so when you use the thumb throttle, there is no tension? you're telling me the slide isn't moving?

[Big-B]

well when you say it like that EXACTLY!!! ( I am really bad with words)

[yaegerb]

there is an adjustment on the throttle housing itself. You have to slide the rubber boot back off the throttle housing and you will see the adjustment underneath. The throttle lever should have 1/8-5/8 play in it.

[Big-B]

If I have no tention is that going to be enough play to tighten it?........ Could something have happened in the housing itself (like come loose or something)?

[yaegerb]

"The throttle valve on the new carb where you push the gas has no resistance. Like it isn't moving the needle up and down any clues "

Explain the above to me....I am not understanding your problem

[Big-B]

The cable on the the running from the throttle housing, (on the handle bars) to to the carb is not moving or has no tension at all when I press the gas. when I crank the bike and press the gas absolutely nothing happens. The throttle valve is not moving. I thought I put on the cable wrong or didn't place the valve correctly in the carb, but all of that is in correctly. I just have not tention from the cable to the valve.

you said "there is an adjustment on the throttle housing itself. You have to slide the rubber boot back off the throttle housing and you will see the adjustment underneath. The throttle lever should have 1/8-5/8 play in it." I was asking if I have no tention, would it be enough to tighten the cable on the throttle housing to allow the bike to run properly.

[yaegerb]

No, that won't work. Did you just buy a new throttle cable? It almost sounds like your throttle cable is too long

[Big-B]

Didn't buy a new throttle cable just a new carb. The cable worked fine on the old carb.. you can see the type of carb I bought from ebay a on the first page.

[yaegerb]

did you compare the internals of both carbs to see what is missing or different between the two?

[Big-B]

The new one the looks to be slightly bigger than the one on the old carb. However, when I took all of them off and pressed the button on the housing. It didn't move the cable at all. I am thinking something is wrong in the house. the cable isnt' moving at all.

[yaegerb]

have you tried to put your old carb back on to see if the old carb and the thumb throttle works?

[Big-B]

yes it doesn't.

[yaegerb]

so the old carb and thumb throttle didn't work when you first bought it, or did this just start happening when you took it all apart?

[Big-B]

No it worked before i took it apart. I took the old carb off and pressed the thumb throttle on it and whatched the needle go up and down. Then I had a buddy over this weekend and was showing him some stuff on it and he pushed the thumb throttle, something happened and it quit working after that. I don't know what he did though. Now i push the thumb throttle with something attached to it, nothing happens.

When I push the thumb throttle with nothing attached to it, nothing happens. It acts like it never worked.... I could rev the engine up when I first bought it. It just now stopped working.

[Big-B]

I called my buddy, he said when he pushed it it got stuck...... and it wouldn't release.. I guess I will open up the housing... what do you think?

[kb0nly]

One of two things... The cable broke or it came off up in the throttle housing. Sounds like you might be due for a new cable!

[Big-B]

yuck!! Thanks

[Big-B]

I have been soaking my gas tank in apple cider vinegar for for about 36 hour I am leaving this weekend, do I need to go ahead and empy it out or will it hurt to leave in in over the weekend?

[kb0nly]

Check its progress, maybe drain, flush, and refill with fresh vinegar and let it sit over the weekend.

[MARTIN1]

Sounds like a choke situation

[yaegerb]

if it got stuck when he pushed it, it is probably either the cable (broke) or something isn't working correctly in the thumb throttle housing.

[Big-B]

Great news, Gas tank clean, new carb works, and opened the housing and the the cable was off.

Bad news; Cranked the bike ran great for about 20 seconds and then stopped. Now I can get it to turn over and crank but it will not stay cranked over a about 4 seconds. pressing the gas makes it die faster. Put a new spark plug in old spark plugs was black around the bottom.. thought it may be the idle but can't get it to stay cranked long enough to find out. Could it be the condenser making it kill so fast?

Also... I found a couple of pin holes in my gas tank what can I use to close that up? I do have some jb weld....

[Big-B]

Does anyone have any Ideas? condenser is my best guess. I don't know if the new plug is fouled yet or not, I haven't taken that off... but When I crank it. It idles very high for about 20 sec or so and then kills completey. then it is really hard to crank again unless i let it sit for about 20 mins.

I need to plug a couple of pin holes on my gas tank any ideas? JB weld? epoxy?? I don't know what else can be used.

[Big-B]

I went out today and tried to idle the bike down.. I think part of the reason it was idling so high was the cable was put on wrong.. anyway I turned the idle screw clockwise ( the one on the right side the carb with the spring)before cranking, and it cranked up and and idled for several minutes, a little high but okay. In tring to set the mixture inthe carb, I turned it clock wise until i couldn't turn the screw any more. It never stalled at all either way? just idled high? I didn't get to check the numbers on the jets yet I may just take it all off this weekend and look at it. also while it was running, i pressed the gas it didn't do anything. I know that the i have the cable on right now I put it in the carb right... but I will tripple check that.....

I can use JB Weld to stop the leak on my gas tank and muffler right?... How do I take the carbon build up out of the muffler system?
One more thing, It almost felt like i lost compression the very las time i cranked it? any reasons why?

[yaegerb]

Your Carb and Throttle Situation:
you need to get a manual (you may already have one) and it will tell you how to set your fuel/air mixture screw. Rule of thumb is seat the screw gently and then turn out 2.5 turns, but again, I would defer to your manual for your specific situation. When you screw it all the way in that means that you are letting NORMAL FUEL / LOW AIR in with your air mixture. When you screw it all the way out that means that you are letting HIGH AMOUNTS OF AIR in your mixture. Generally, when you loosen the screw all the way, the engine should start revving higher because its starving for fuel. So now you have throttle spring but the carb isn't revving when you depress your thumb throttle??? Man, you are having some bad luck with this setup. I think you need to triple check everything as you said as I am sure it is something simple that has been overlooked.

Your Tank and Muffler Situation:
I love JB weld and yes, you can use it to stop leaks in your gas tank and muffler. Honestly though, I would either take your tank and muffler to a weld shop and do the patch correctly or just go buy different parts. The only reason I ever use JB weld is if I am backed into a corner and its the only option I have. To each their own. When you say carbon build up, what do you mean? You can actually see chunks of carbon in your pipe? Or are you referring to the soot laying inside the pipe? If its the latter I wouldn't worry about it. Once you get it running right/smoothly, take it out and run it WOT for a while and all that soot will blow out the back.

Losing compression:
I would need to know more about your motor to diagnose appropriately. It could be any number of things. I would say get it running right first and then diagnose your 1 time compression loss problem. If you can't get it running correctly, then maybe the compression loss is your problem.

In the future, I know I would benefit by seeing some photos of this beast and the various areas you are trying to fix. Post em up! :)

[Big-B]

I believe I will make a video of the bike this weeked explain the problems and takes some pics so that you can see what is going on. I am going to JB weld for now, but i have a friend that welds. I will get him to do a permanent fix later. Thanks I will let everyone know how it goes this weekend with pics and videos.

[Big-B]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61qGEC4627w&list=HL1345213966&feature=mh_lolz

That is the video of the bike... I cut out on me really quick so i didn't get to show what the bike was doing but that is how high it is idling and how much smoke is come out.. I take me a bit to crank it but that is proably because i just but the tank back on.

Thanks

[kb0nly]

The lever you asked about in the video is the compression release, supposed to have a cable to it that pulls it up when you go to pull it over so that you can spin it over faster, it drops back down as you crank it over.

[Big-B]

Oh okay make sense. does it matter to replace right now i ususally don't have much trouble cranking it. I am going to to a double/tripple check on everything this weekend. the video cut out on me rather qickly. It almost acts like it is revved up. I am going to take a quad look at the cable and all in the throttle body. I know it is something simple that I am overlooking.

[yaegerb]

The bike is idling WAY to high. You need to turn the idle screw down. If turning the idle screw down doesn't help I would say that something is seriously wrong with your slide or your thumb throttle adjustment.

It looked like it was smoking too. Probably time for a new set of rings.

[Big-B]

Alright guys I found the idle problem, some how the cable got snagged in the top end of the throttle cable. Easy fix. Now the fitting on the carb where the fuel goes into the carb from the gas tank, came out. Can you put that back in? It is that little brass fitting.

[Furno]

Its pressed in at the factory, I rarely have them come out. try to push it in, and squeese the area around it to hold it in, if you look closely this is how the factory does it. if it leaks or its not snug then I've had luck roughing it up with light sandpaper and using a fuel safe epoxy to put it hold it tight. I find that those Fuel Tank Repair kits (click this link) work great (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=permatex+fuel+tank+repair), like 12 bucks at auto parts store. use the one that you mix the liquids together its Permatex 9101 i think. , comes with some fiberglass and a little brush for larger repairs. you will need the tiniest amount of the liquid on the fitting to put it back. too much and you will have a nightmare if it gets in the orifices in your carb.

you do not want the stick that you knead together, it wont suffice for this.

[Big-B]

Thank you that is great info

[Big-B]

I am happy to announce that It is finnally running right! I took it for a short spin this morning. I will try to make a video of it and show it to you all.. It is smoking trying to decide wether a top end rebuild or just a piston rings and/or piston. Going to change the oil hopefully tomorrow morning.

[yaegerb]

depending on how bad the cylinder walls are scratched you may be able to get away with a cylinder hone and slap new rings on the piston. I would also change out the valve seals while you are in there. Good to hear it is running correctly.

[Furno]

How did you get the nipple back in the orifice in the carb? giggity.

[Big-B]

I used a hammer and socket extension and use a set of lock pliers to clamp it. If it comes out again I will use some jb weld.. my best friend!!

[Big-B]

I was wondering how hard it is to take off the top end of the 3 wheeler to check pistons ect for either replacemnt, honing, or rebuilding. Give some of your experiences. i do have a tork wrench but it only goes up to 5lbs of pressure and the service manual says 7ft pounds. I am really nervous about doing things like that. I have never much worked on a motor. I am pretty mechanically sound on other things. I would like to do it myself but am not sure if I can. Approx. how long will it take and how much of a head ache?

If you have done anywork on the motor please reply all the details are welcome.
If I decide to to the rebuild myself I will post pictures and probably ask questions.

2nd note, My pull cable to start the 3 wheeler isn't winding back in. I think it is jammed. I can take the cover off what do I need to look for?

[yaegerb]

Someone else will have to comment on the recoil, but I will do my best for the top end.

You say you are mechanically sound so it shouldn't be too hard of a job for you.

1. Remove the engine from the frame (Disconnect, wires, hoses, chain)
2. I would design a box that your motor can sit on top of so it doesn't move during dis-assembly (take a look at my thread and you will see the type of box I used).
3. Remove the allen bolts and acorn nuts on your head
4. Take CDI/Cam Sprocket/Cam chain off
5. Remove rocker cover
6. Remove Cam
7. Unscrew the long bolt on the CDI side of case and Remove Head
8. Assess the situation and take some pictures for us to help when/if necessary

A good tip is to buy a box of ziplock baggies and seal like-parts together and then label. For example, when you take your CDI off, put all the components along with the bolts in one baggie.

Total time for you should be 3-4 hours. I have seen some guys do it in 45 minutes.

[Big-B]

Someone else will have to comment on the recoil, but I will do my best for the top end.

You say you are mechanically sound so it shouldn't be too hard of a job for you.

1. Remove the engine from the frame (Disconnect, wires, hoses, chain)
2. I would design a box that your motor can sit on top of so it doesn't move during dis-assembly (take a look at my thread and you will see the type of box I used).
3. Remove the allen bolts and acorn nuts on your head
4. Take CDI/Cam Sprocket/Cam chain off
5. Remove rocker cover
6. Remove Cam
7. Unscrew the long bolt on the CDI side of case and Remove Head
8. Assess the situation and take some pictures for us to help when/if necessary

A good tip is to buy a box of ziplock baggies and seal like-parts together and then label. For example, when you take your CDI off, put all the components along with the bolts in one baggie.

Total time for you should be 3-4 hours. I have seen some guys do it in 45 minutes.

Okay that sums it up for me doesn't sound to terrible... I will keep a close eye with the service manual.... The torques how imparative is that? is there a way to use my torque wrench?

Also will i need anything other than allen wrench and a good set of metric wrenches?

[yaegerb]

I typically don't use a torque wrench on these old motors. When I was young I thought a torque wrench would be good to use, but then quickly realized a 20-30 year old case strips out rather easily.

The one area I always re-torque are the allen heads and acorn nuts on the rocker cover when you re-assemble.

A good set of metric wrenches and your own man-power will suffice on all the other bolts.

[Big-B]

Any body have any ideas on the Crank recoil?

[JoeChevy]

got you covered big b, take of the 4 10mm bolts holding your crank together, then take off the 10mm nut holding the guts together, careful its spring loaded, make a note where everything goes, clean up any crud that may have accumulated over the years, sand any surface rust 600 grit sand paper is best you don't want to score any moving parts, make sure there's no tension on the cord then carefully pull the big round plastic piece holding the cord out, clean behind it, coil up the cord leaving about 8-9 inches of cord out, then pull the cord up through the little slot on the plastic piece holding the cord, place gently onto the coil spring, rotate clockwise until it drops into place while keeping the cord in that slot, once in place rotate counter clockwise two full turns then pull the cord out of the slot and let it spring back gently, pull the cord a couple times to make sure it recoils properly, if not pull cord through the slot again and rotate counter clockwise another full turn, once satisfied reassemble, there is a gasket but there's no need to buy a kit for it, pick up a tube of high temp liquid gasket, its re-usable, odds are you'll break the cord eventually, remember its been tugged on for almost 30 years, 1/4 inch nylon rope is good enough to replace it once it gets too short also a good idea to keep a spare spark plug/wrench, 3-4ft of nylon rope, a 10mm wrench and a pocket knife in the tool box just in case, never know when it'll come in handy, cheers