Tri-z hard idle help.

[Rigaman]

My tri-z just started idling very weird today. It idled great the past couple days. It hasnt been ridden much since a full rebuild. The piston is 70mm. Dg pipe. Everything else in the motor is pretty much stock I believe. This just started idling like this. I am running between 20:1 and 28:1 right now. It was 20:1 and there was about a half tank left, and I put in a gallon of 28:1. The book says brake in period should run 13:1, but I thought that was a little much.

Can anyone pinpoint what this idle sounds like? I have no clue why it idles like this. I think my jets are stock. So maybe I need to go up a few sizes because of the big piston and the pipe? But that shouldnt idle like that with stock jetting.

Here is a youtube video of the bike idling. I noticed not much smoke was coming out of the pipe. This was after a half hour ride. It smoked a bunch while warming up though. Not excessive, but a nice cloud. =) It seems like it is pretty hard to start now too. Even when warm. It started like cake before this ride.

http://youtu.be/bTBHpbmsVhs

[Rigaman]

Oh. One more thing. My kick start lever snapped right at the pivot. Like, clean snapped in 2 pieces.

Does anyone know if any other kick levers will fit on the tri-z? I dont think 200x will fit... But maybe Banshee? The 250r fits with a little modification. But it doesnt seat right when riding.

[IKE-Z]

Dirtface pointed me in the right direction when the same thing happened to me a couple months back. 250sx kicker fit right on for me.

[Rigaman]

Nice. Thanks!!

Cause the z kicker is expensive as it gets. And there is only one on ebay right now. For $100

What about the idle? That is a crazy sounding idle. It is not normal right?

[El Camexican]

Did you open the carb? If yes, what did you touch or do? If not was it running ok before this?
Did you do anything to the air filter recently? i.e. oil it up and maybe leave too much oil in it?
Did you change the spark plug? If so, did you set the gap correctly?
What oil ratio were you or the last owner using before the rebuild?
Where is your air screw currently set? i.e. how many turns out from gently closed?
How old is that gas you have in the tank?
Don't act on this next comment yet, but I'm thinking that if all the above checks out and you’ve been riding around slowly you may have so much oil in your crankcase right now that the air can't properly flow due to the volume of space the excess oil is taking up, so I need to know if you've revved it up yet (say half throttle and a good wide open blip) and if so did it idle a little better after that for a few moments?

[Rigaman]

Only thing I changed on the carb is I put a thumb throttle on. I had to pull out the slide, and it was idling fine after that.

Im not sure what the previous owner ran before the rebuild.. The gas is fresh, like that day fresh.

I have opened it up half throttle. Not much more though, but I was riding it pretty fast. It has full power. Just the idle isnt right. Maybe it is just too high, and when I lower it, it wont stay idling because the 20:1 mixture?

But I dont see much smoke blowing out of the pipe after it warmed up. But there is splooge on the silencer tip. The exhaust is a little leaky out of the head. When riding I dont see much smoke, but when I start it up it puffs out between the head and expansion chamber.

I have to check the air screw. I just got the trike. It was running perfect, so I didnt adjust anything.


I will check how it idles after a nice half throttle rip. I cant start it now anyways because the kicker snapped.

It was real hard to start warm.. So the plug is probably soaked with oil I bet. Or it was flooding.

Its like as I ride, it progressively gets harder to start. First 20 mins, I can kill it and start it right up. Then it gets harder and harder..

[El Camexican]

Put your hand (be carefull) by the exahust spigot and see if there is a lot of air coming out of there. That a bad spot on that engine. Forget a proper fix for now, just see if its blowing out air.

You say you changed the throttle. Did you make sure that you have free play in the cable throughout the movment of the handle bars? You need to be sure about that by feeling for at least 1/8" of free play in the cable play and hearing a nice crisp metalic click when you release the throttle. Was there a gasket in the carb cap and was it in decent condition? Take a look at your maniford as well, make sure its not cracked up and that the boost bottle hose is connected at both ends.

I'd empty the tank, measure the fuel that came out and add some straight gas to bring the mixture to between 32 and 40 to one and then put it back in the tank.

Set the air screw to 1-1/2 turns out and see if that makes it run any better after a few blips of the throttle and let me know what if anything changed.

[MTS]

Sounds like your air screw fell out, just adding, or a choke problem.

[Rigaman]

I'll check the air screw.

When you say feel for air coming out the exhaust spigot,you mean the silencer? Or at the head?

Ya. I made sure there is enough play in the cable. . The first cable I used, the cable housing was stretched, and there wasn't enough cable, and it revved up fast when I started it. So i had to use a different cable. The slide chunks down to the bottom now. If I bring the idle any lower it dies out..

[El Camexican]

I'll check the air screw.

When you say feel for air coming out the exhaust spigot,you mean the silencer? Or at the head?

Ya. I made sure there is enough play in the cable. . The first cable I used, the cable housing was stretched, and there wasn't enough cable, and it revved up fast when I started it. So i had to use a different cable. The slide chunks down to the bottom now. If I bring the idle any lower it dies out..

At the head

[TimSr]

The book says brake in period should run 13:1, but I thought that was a little much.





First step is to throw away whatever book you are using.

I know every internet genius has their own top secret break in procedure "used by all the pros", but Wiseco used to enclose a break-in instruction with each piston, and they directed you to run the same mix as normal, keep the RPMs low with periodic, occasional, brief full revs. It takes about 20 minutes run time to adequately seat rings on a two stroke. Retorque head nuts after heating. Then change the plug, and run it normal. Run it at high revs to clean it out, and then you can start to monkey with the idle, and start with the air screw about 1 1/2 truns out.

[Rigaman]

Awesome.

SO I gotta retorque the head screws, and run it like I stole it now. =)

I was under the impression I needed to be easy on it for like 3 hours. I do have a Wiseco piston and rings. So I can FINALLY rip it now.

I mean. The idle is annoying. But it still runs great. So I will get the old gas out. Put 32:1 I dont want to run 40:1 just yet. What do you guys think about ratio?

Also.. What oil do you use? I have spectro golden. Its a black bottle with gold letters on it. But I just ran out anyways.

Thanks guys!! I will go check the exhaust. I know air is leaking out of the exhaust head. Cause I see smoke when I start it puffing out. But it stopps after it warms up.

Does that make it run lean? I think with my bigger bore, my pipe, and stock jets, it might be running lean already.

[Rigaman]

The air screw was set at 1 1/2 turns

[just ben]

oh boy an idle thread turned into an oil thread. You have golden spectro, did you read the bottle at all? One bottle per 5 gallons which ends up being 52-53 or so to 1. 13:1 with that oil and I am surprised it runs as well as you say.I really am just about as sick of seeing stupid pointless oil threads as fabio is. I don't understand the arguement. If you use a cheap universal oil it will tell you to follow the mfgs. recomended... blah blah. If you use a good quality oil it says on the bottle what ratio to use.These companies spend millions on R&D on their product and is the reason they cost 2-3 times as much as the walmart brand. Sorry to rant in your thread but if you had taken 10 seconds to use the search key you would see why it would be better to just not bring it up

[Rigaman]

Golden spectro isn't that bad. It's all I had. It's what the previous owner used, and there was a little left so I used it. I didn't mix the whole bottle into a gallon. I mixed it 28:1. Ya. I read the bottle. My thread is an idle thread. If I use junk oil, or too much, it will effect the idle. Thats why I brought it up. Gimme a break

Edit:

Oh. You are saying golden spectro is good oil, and should be run at 56:1 like the mfg specs? I think I get what your saying. My bad. I just wanted to play it safe on the brake in. Your right. I should have searched it before dumped it in my tank. I just hear a thousand things from a thousand people, and its hard to tell what to use sometimes. I wasn't even asking about ratios. I just was curious to what the people who were helping me were running for oil. And if mine might be lean

[TimSr]

Rigaman, Spectro is fine, and has been around forever. Probably a good choice if thats how it was setup by previous owner. I would recommend not running it any richer than 40:1, and a 12oz bottle to 5 gals is probably better, and easier to measure/mix. Thats what it was designed for. It doesn't burn off as qucikly as conventional oils, and will accumulate to excess in the crank if you run too much of it. ( A light pooling of 1 or 2mm oil in the crank is desireable)

TriZ exhausts always leak, and the negative effects are limited to cosmetics. Hi Temp silicon in conjunction with your metal gasket will help, but is usually not long lasting.

Your max overborer at 70mm will also be pretty insignificant to your carburetion. As I said in another thread, TriZ factory jetting is very rich, and once you get things stabilized and consistant, and are ready to fine tune if you decide to, you'll likely end up smaller than stock on your main.

[Rigaman]

Awesome! Thanks for the help. As long as its not gonna hurt the motor, the exhaust isn't anything for me to worry about. I think 40:1 is a good ratio. My buddy ran 50:1 and blew his motor fast.

I set my air screw to 1 3/4 and it was better.

I wish I was closer to ohio. You guys gave a lot of cool stuff going on down there.

[Rigaman]

so I found out the bolts that secure the intake boot and reed cage to the head were very loose. Air was just sucking in the engine, and it finally wouldnt start at all. It must have been the reason for the rough idle. As time went on, they shook out more, and finally it just wouldnt start.

I have kicked it over so many times today after tightening the intake bolts. It will putter a little, but nothing. It will puff smoke, and want to start, but it seems like it isnt getting the gas it needs

So I looked up about priming the fuel pump, and maybe filling up my carb with gas so I can get it going. I put a new plug in, and it has good spark.. So must be fuel.

I dont seem to have a long fuel tank breather tube. It is there, but it only runs under the rear fender up to the rear master cylinder. I cant blow into it to get fuel into the carb like some people say to do.

What is my best solution to this? I am pretty sure this is why it wont start. Nothing else has changed.

[Rigaman]

I just cant get it started. Fuel pump seems good. I primed the carb by using a bottle and a fuel line and pouring pre mix in through the carb. kicked it over and over, and nothing. I checked the fuel line where the petcock connects to the carb, and it was bone dry. I tipped the bike and gas poured out. I checked the petcock, and it is good.

I even sprayed started fluid onto the air filter, and tried.. nothing. Putters, but it wont start.

Could my Reeds be the problem?

Anyone have any ideas? I pulled the carb, and it looks clean. But I havent had time to really check the float and jets yet.

[RiJiD-WILL]

take your carb off and check your jets also check the diaphragm in the fuel pump. write the jet sizes down when you check the carb but I dont think thats where your problem is.

was there fuel going to the carb from the pump? was there any fuel going into the crank case from the fuel pump?
it sounds like you might have burned up the rings by having a lean condition from your loose intake boot letting air in...

can you check the compression?

[Rigaman]

It feels like it has good compression when I kick it. I will have to do a test.

I didnt ride alot with the air leak. I never had i wide open either. I had it half revs and didnt go too long. After my last ride it started up the next day. Then a couple days after it wouldnt start. So its weird. If I fried the rings it would have been while riding. My carb doesnt seem like its geting fuel. I pulled the fuel line off the carb, and it was dry. Bone dry. I dont think there is any fuel going into the crank case either. I pulled the line off the crank case and it was dry.

I know my petcock is ok. The fuel pump works cause when I tipped the bike after I unplugged the line there was fuel in it. I pulled off the petcock, and it had fuel in the line too.

I pulled my carb, and the float bowl was full. I didnt check the float or jets yet. The air cleaner is pretty dirty. It wasnt on fully tight, so crap could be in the carb. But I doubt it. I bet its the rings.

I hadnt even really broken it in yet. It was a fresh rebuild. So that sucks

[Rigaman]

What kind of numbers should I be looking for in compression?

its got a 70mm piston. If I fried the rings, Will I be ok just putting a new set of rings in, or will I have to re bore? If I have to re bore, I will need a new sleeve.

It shouldnt be that bad. I barely rode it. I never had it opened up either. I babied it cause the fresh top end.