View Full Version : 1985 Honda ATC 200M No spark
CodyRosa
10-03-2012, 02:59 PM
Hi, I recently got a free trike from my grandpa which had been sitting outside since maybe 89? 90? So probably a little more than 20 years but it was ran about 7 years ago. I didn't have a key for it so I took out ignition and cut all four wires.. stripped them and then wired 2 together with all combinations (like red + green, red + black, etc) Well it never sounded like it wanted to start or even attempt to start. I check for a spark but no spark thought maybe bad spark plug so I checked the spark plug cap with a wire while I held onto it and no spark there either. If someone could maybe hint me towards where to check first as I don't want to buy a stator unless needed that would be great. What are the most common problems when they sit outside for that long? Also the ignition wires if someone could tell me what 2 wires are to start it, there is red, green, black, black/white and im going to hook it up to a toggle switch after.
Thanks,
Cody
CodyRosa
10-03-2012, 03:04 PM
Oh I also forgot to mention there is no battery hooked up so I cant see the neutral light.
kb0nly
10-03-2012, 04:14 PM
First off... You don't need to jumper anything.
Follow the four wires into the headlight housing from the ignition switch, unplug all four. The green and black/white are the ignition kill wires, leave them disconnected, if shorted together that kills the ignition like the switch does when off.
The other two wires, red and black, are to turn on power to the headlight switch and neutral light. You will find the wires that the switch plugged into are opposites, one is a female connector and one is a male connector, unplug the wires from the switch and plug the one wire into the other. Your ignition switch is now bypassed and when you crank it over you should see the neutral light flicker.
If you don't have a battery it will still run and the neutral light will come on when its running.
If your lucky you didn't fry anything doing that with the switch wiring. Cause i seen a guy that did this before and wired the lighting circuit output to the black wire, which puts the AC output from the lighting circuit on the kill wire for the ignition and fried the CDI unit.
If you need a manual for the wiring diagrams check my signature below..
kb0nly
10-03-2012, 04:19 PM
Oh one more thing... If its been sitting outside that long you might have to disconnect the wires to the kill switch on the handbars as well just to rule it out, they get rusty and stuck and short out killing your ignition.
CodyRosa
10-03-2012, 05:49 PM
Ok well she is sparkin now. Got the on/off switch working. I see a blue light on the spark plug and feel it in my hand. The spark is pretty small but none the less a spark. Now it still doesnt sound like it wants to start. Would my carb be clogged maybe?
tri again
10-03-2012, 06:18 PM
When they sit that long, it's almost positive the carb needs to be cleaned.
I had one that was drained of all gas and sat for a few years.
The tank was ruined from rust, the fuel shut off was completely plugged and there was some serious sludge in the carb.
Not a hard job, just tedious and lots of tiny little parts you
don't want to lose or misplace.
Congratulations on getting spark.
Next is to see if it has all the gears and you'll
have a great machine that will last for another 1/4 century.
It's rare that they need rebuild kits but they're only like 20 bucks.
CodyRosa
10-03-2012, 07:31 PM
Well I heard her start for about 1 sec haha so im happy!.. I think i gotta clean carb but i had choke all the way on and didn't realize it so im pretty sure its flooded. I'll go back in about 15 min and try again!
kb0nly
10-03-2012, 08:00 PM
I almost guarantee you have to take the carb apart after sitting that long, if nothing else to clean out the bowl. Did you flush the old gas out of the tank?
CodyRosa
10-03-2012, 09:38 PM
Yup! flushed out old gas.. had a nasty smell. Poured hot water let it sit for awhile, emptied it, poured a little bit of good gas in and shook around then emptied that. Me and my dad are going to clean the carb soon. Im going to take it off tomorrow and he wants to clean the jets himself though.
kb0nly
10-04-2012, 12:05 AM
Good deal... Tank rusty inside or did you get lucky? If its rusty might as well clean it out now before you get too far ahead of yourself. I don't like putting a coating in them i rather dump in some rust remover. I was reading with interest on here how some guys are using The Works toilet bowl cleaner with great success i might have to try that next time i get a rusty one. Last one i did i used a spendy commercial rust remover and let it soak in the tank for about two days, man it was spic and span shiny clean after that, but the jug of chemicals was about $40 for it.
If nothing else after your rinsing put a good inline fuel filter on it just to keep the crud out of the carb. The fact that you got it running at least is encouraging!
CodyRosa
10-04-2012, 12:30 AM
Really the works .. works? haha.. do you know if its the thick or normal stuff? I dont have the normal stuff because I make works bombs lol but I do have the thick formula. Also the tank wasn't to bad was still silver/grey whatever it is on the inside with some rust. Not much though. I'll keep that new fuel filter in mind. I cant wait for tomorrow haha im going to try and clean the carb and get it running! I've never rode a 3 wheeler and have not even touched a motorized thing (except truck/car) in like 7 years lol.. so im quite excited.
tri again
10-04-2012, 03:19 AM
Fuel filters are cheap altho I had a couple of those see through
filters that actually needed pressure to pass fuel.
Generic autoparts store cheapies. EZ to blow thru but would not
allow gas to drip thru.
anyway, the carb removal and cleaning isn't hard, you just need a nice
clean area, good lighting and no distractions.
Rebuild kits, IF you need one for the float needle and gasket/'o' ring is like 20 bucks and new carbs are like 25 bucks.
You and dad are gonna have a great time.
I bet you'll have at least one more in a very short time.
It's gonna seem funny but resist the instinct to put your feet down while it's rolling.
CodyRosa
10-04-2012, 10:41 AM
haha yea I heard about that.. about not putting your feet down. I have a fear of my foot slipping off the foot pegs and the back tire catching it lol. I now have a minor problem though! I have all bots/nuts out of the carb and air cleaner box BUT the screw is stripped with the hose clamp that connects the carb/air cleaner box together. http://imgur.com/KG306 not sure if you can see but that's the one im talking about. the screw seems to be loose already though and I tried pulling it out but im afraid that something will break if i pull to hard. Any suggestions?
kb0nly
10-04-2012, 01:03 PM
If its loose enough it will come out but you will have to tug on it pretty hard, you could take the airbox loose and just pull the airbox up and back and take it out with the carb if you can't get it to come out of the rubber.
The regular old thin formula "the works" toilet bowl cleaner. I have done some experiments with it after seeing a guy clean his tank on here with it. I put some in a plastic bucket and tossed in a few rusty exhaust clamps, shined them right up after an overnight soak!
CodyRosa
10-04-2012, 03:02 PM
Wow I cant believe that works, thanks for the tip! Ill have to pick some think formula up. I got carb out.. Cleaned the air box and the outside of the carb.. I think once I get this carb cleaner im going to tackle it!
kb0nly
10-04-2012, 03:42 PM
Have at it, tear that sucker apart and give it a good scrubbing.. LOL
CodyRosa
10-04-2012, 05:00 PM
Well i went against what my dad said and took the carb apart. Cleaned as much as I could without carb cleaner.. in about 20 minutes I should have those jets unclogged ( i couldn't see through them) and then place it back in.. and hopefully fire up!
kb0nly
10-04-2012, 06:16 PM
The jets are the pain, i usually use my collection of guitar strings and piano wire to get through them.
CodyRosa
10-04-2012, 08:19 PM
Ok carbs in it.. she starts up but the throttle stuck so i figured out i had a lot of tension on the throttle. Now i need to lube up the throttle tomorrow AND redo the throttle because it doesnt go back when i push it.. it goes back but not all the way.
kb0nly
10-04-2012, 08:27 PM
Make sure you have the slide in the carb correctly, if you have it wrong way it will hang up like that. If you look on the slide one side has a long narrow notch, the other side has a small short angled notch. The small angled notch needs to go towards the side of the carb with the idle adjust screw, the long narrow slot rides on the pin opposite of it.
CodyRosa
10-04-2012, 09:17 PM
Ok I just drove it like 150 ft in 1st gear going OK at best. Sounds good but its still that throttle so tomorrow i'll check I know what your talking about.. im hoping thats it.. But when i shifted into 2nd gear it killed almost instantly. I can only start when choke is open and it kind of idles really high until i turn choke down half way then sounds normal... Any suggestions? Also is there a place I can find that shows how to hook the throttle up the right way? I mean I know how to do it except there's a spring inside around the plastic and It isn't doing anything.
CodyRosa
10-04-2012, 11:03 PM
Grrrr!! I found out the high rev! I just need help fixing it.. =/ http://imgur.com/i0UzR As you can see I compress that spring and the cable comes out where the throttle is... It never did that before :mad: Also I had the little tube w/ needle in the carb the right way.. I cant even put it in a wrong way.
Howdy
10-05-2012, 01:48 AM
Is the spring bad / broke or is the throttle cable gummed up. I have seen throttle cables go bad after sitting outside for a month or 2 ( let alone years ).
Howdy
CodyRosa
10-05-2012, 02:07 AM
I don't think the throttle cables bad and the spring should be bad. It was fine until I took it off to clean the carb. My dad was fiddling around with it and it worked then he twisted it and it did what you see in the picture where when the springs compressed the throttle cable goes up meaning it instantly high revs when i turn it on.
Howdy
10-05-2012, 02:18 AM
Double check the cable. You want the cable to be free as possible with NO hang ups what so ever. If the cable is hanging up it could cause the motor to rev up while riding and possibly cause an accident. Don't want to see you get hurt.
You may find a spring at a local hardware if the spring is bad. I personally have seen the carb springs go bad from sitting though.
Howdy
CodyRosa
10-05-2012, 09:03 AM
Well what would be bad from the spring? It's just so confusing lol. I mean its compressing. I could just take the spring from my other 3 wheeler if I have to.
kb0nly
10-05-2012, 09:55 AM
With the slide and cable removed from the carb hold the carb end of the cable or the cap then move the throttle lever up on the handle bars and see if the slide compresses the spring against the cap, then let go of the throttle and see if the spring returns and stretches back out. If not the spring needs to be replaced.
When you push down on the slide against the cap like you are doing in the picture its normal for the cable to push out of the slide, thats how you remove it from the slide. But if the cable isn't freely moving then i would recommend replacing it. You can get a cable lube tool that allows you to force a spray lube down through the cable, such as wd-40, but usually when they get bad enough they won't move freely its just a temporary fix as it has a worn spot somewhere along the inside.
The throttle cables can be had for less than $20 on eBay.
kb0nly
10-05-2012, 10:01 AM
Oh i just went back and read that post about starting it and the choke... Sounds like the mixture screw isn't right or you have a plugged passage in the carb yet causing problems.
CodyRosa
10-05-2012, 10:35 AM
Ok i found out my problem the pilot jet was clogged bad! I couldn't get through it before so i thought a ball bearing was in there lol so thats my idle problem i believe.. I got the throttle fixed but it kind of pulls the throttle just a bit.. but now i cant get er started! gaaaahhh.. I was checking spark and didn't see anything and then closed a door (so it was dark) and sanded it ( should have tested it before doing this) and there was spark but the spark plug was black on the bottom. There was actually a little more spark then normal. Not sure what the black was hoping not oil.
kb0nly
10-05-2012, 12:19 PM
It was probably running to rich, was the plug just black and dry, or was it black and wet? Did it smoke at all when it was running?
Probably just running too rich cause of the carb not being right.
CodyRosa
10-05-2012, 05:00 PM
Well I have been driving it all day! Gotta say it was worth the wait love it way better than a quad!! Still minor problems, chain has to be tighten, high idle due to cable being pulled just a little not to much though, and the hole wheeler shakes at about 35-40 because the bearings or whatever OR the tires are lose lol. Sure wouldn't be good to lose one of them. Also I have carlise turfbusters brand new and the machine when i drive in sand sounds like its not powerful enough to make it. Goes fast on hard dirt roads and tar (although i have throttle half way due to shaking at full ). Would it be plausible for me to get the small tires in back and one big one up front? kind of like the fast quads.. I love that look.
Howdy
10-06-2012, 09:34 AM
Well what would be bad from the spring? It's just so confusing lol. I mean its compressing. I could just take the spring from my other 3 wheeler if I have to.
I read on that you got it running and riding. SWEET!!!
In the picture ( link you posted above ): The throttle slide and cap looks compressed and on the other end of the cable it looks like it's not in all the way. If the cable was totally free the end should be all the way up to the fitting. This tells me this: either the cable is bound up, the spring is weak, or you have the spring compressed.
kb0nly
10-06-2012, 11:36 AM
As for the shaking, check your rear tire pressures. These things are sensitive to having the rear tires at different pressures, makes it shake and wobble. Also check your front tire pressure to. Check the bearing for excessive play, and also check the head bearings to see if your steering is loose. What i usually do is get on the trike and apply just the front brake then rock the trike front to back to see if the steering wobbles. Sometimes you can just take it apart and clean and grease and retorque and it will take the slop out, worst case the bearings are shot and you will have to buy a set of roller bearings from all balls to fix that.
For the hanging throttle problem i would just spend the money and get a new cable. Oh and make sure the needle in the slide is on the right clip position! In that one picture you posted it looks like the needle is down pretty far, if the needle is bottoming out before the slide can go down all the way you will be adding extra air at idle and she will run lean and rev up a bit, been there done that.
CodyRosa
10-06-2012, 12:06 PM
Well I know the back bearings are shot lol both tires wobbbbbble haha and for tire press.. i'll definently check it, it has been sitting for awile with those tires. I have not added any air to them yet. The front handle bars shake real bad and my front brakes dont work so i cant check it by how you said. Maybe i'll do a short video of it? The high revs only in neutral and once its in gear it goes REALLY low and sounds normal.
CodyRosa
10-06-2012, 12:09 PM
Oh i almost forgot to mention.. when the 3 wheeler sits there the carb leaks gas out of that breather hose.
Irideon3wheels
10-08-2012, 05:11 PM
id be wondering about the bearings first anyone can ride on a tire with some slime and a patch but when you have a bearing actually BREAK all hell brakes loose messing with them. especially if the race on the inside breaks out then you have a 1mm lip you have to grab with some pliers. not fun but i like where youve gone with this. my grand dad gave me a locked up 1986 honda trx 70 that im doing a build on but i dont know about putting it on 3ww. and Good Luck
CodyRosa
10-08-2012, 05:29 PM
Well my checked them he said there not terrible and to just run it for now. I know why it shakes though lol. The back tire was loosened a bit for the cotter pin(tightened now) and the front fork is missiing the big nut on top lol sooo it moves around. Yea this means a lot to me.. Ive been offered a lot of money for it.. I wont take anything for it.
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