Atc 200m Battery Problems

[CodyRosa]

Hey guys I just recently hooked up a new battery to my 200M to try the electric start. Of course it did NOT work. I tested the battery with a Kc light and it lit right up and very bright! So i know the battery is good. I then put the light where my normal headlight would be and nothing. I hooked up the taillight and nothing. I looked at the main fuse and it was fine.

I know there could a hundred different problems(i think? lol) but where would you check if your electric start didn't work. Now I don't think it has anything to do with it but I did remove my ignition and I have the four wires dangling. I obviously have the red/black (or whatever it is) hooked up for the ignition to be turned on.

Any help for a start is very appreciated.

And one last thing.. very random do I need a special tool to get a magneto out? My spark plugs don't spark to well so i'd like to see if its rusty/gunk got on it.

Thanks everyone,

Cody

[CodyRosa]

Crap can i change the title to atc 200m battery problems? I didn't mean to make it just atc 200m

[Flossyb20]

Make sure it's in neutral...

[CodyRosa]

lol its in neutral. I'm not that stupid haha

[dustrunner]

try running power directly to the starter and see if that is good... and im thinking the switches might need attention also.. good luck..

[kb0nly]

The four wires to the switch should be...

Green - Ground
Black - Ignition
Red - Battery
Yellow/Red - Battery Out / Turns on power to light switch and starter circuit

You don't need anything jumped for it to run. The green and black wires get connected by the ignition switch in the off position, so when the switch is on they are disconnected and open, leave them unconnected. For the lights and electric start to work you need to connect the Red and Yellow/Red wires together.

This seems to have come up a lot lately but i will repeat it again.

Pull your headlight out, find the four wires from the switch, the black and green are both male connectors, unplug them from the connectors in the headlight and leave them disconnected, if you want a switch in the future just plug back in, or if you plan on replacing with a toggle switch you can but its really not needed as the kill switch on the handlebars gives you the same function.

Disconnect the Red and Yellow/Red, you will notice they are opposite genders, one is male one is a female, take the wires that the switch plugged into and plug them together in the headlight, now the headlight switch and starter circuit always have power. If you want to switch this circuit then put a toggle switch between these two wires or wire in an aftermarket ignition switch, you can get one for like ten bucks off ebay, just look for a four wire atv ignition switch.

Take jumper cables and just use the positive side and clip onto your battery, this is provided you have the ground to the frame from the battery connected good, and tap the other end to the terminal on the starter, does it spin? If not the starter is bad, if it does then you still have something else bad.

If the starter tests good, and your neutral light is on, then its on to checking the start button switch and the starter relay. The start button just supplies the ground to the starter relay, but the button switch only has a ground if the neutral switch is working. You can test all this up in the headlight with a digital volt/ohm meter, aka VOM. You want to check for continuity. If you have continuity from ground/frame to the light green/red wire then the neutral switch is good, then you want to push the start button and see if you have continuity between the green/red wire to ground, and you want to check the green/red wire in the headlight from the switch and also back at the starter relay just to rule out connections. If this all checks out and the start button is switching the ground to the starter relay then take your test light or volt meter and check across the ground (green/red) and positive (yellow/red) wires at the starter solenoid, you should see power when the start button is pressed, and if you listen closely you would even hear the relay click. If you have power there you can also check the relay for operation, one large terminal is the battery, the other is the starter, use your test light, with the start button pressed do both of them have power? If not the relay isn't working.

The fuse, 10A, is for the charging and light circuit and also supplies power to the Red wire at the ignition switch, so if you don't have power to the Red wire up at the headlight double check that fuse and make sure its not corrosion in there causing problems.

[CodyRosa]

Ok guys I tested the started. Fired my machine right up. Then the solenoid with a screwdriver on both posts(whatever they are) and it was turning over but wasn't starting(no gas tank) My dad was thinking the solenoid is bad but how would it be bad if it's turning it over? What is my next best option?? When i fired it up with the starter I had all 4 ignition wires unplugged. 157133

Red, black, black/white, and green. When I had the red and black together for the ignition my toggle switch would light up so i know there getting power.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again everyone for the help!

[kb0nly]

Ahh ok, you have an 85...

Black/White Ignition
Green Ground
Red Battery
Black Battery Out

Leave the Black/White and Green disconnected and leave the Red and Black connected like you have it, your ok there.

Jumping it with a screwdriver don't tell you the solenoid is good or bad, just that the screwdriver is good at making the short... LOL

Did you get it to run the starter without jumping the posts on the solenoid? If not then i agree with your Dad, the solenoid is probably bad, test it! With the start button pushed just take a test light and check the wires on the solenoid, one large one has power from the battery, one of the small wires (yellow/red) also has power, the start switch just supplies the ground to the other small wire at the solenoid (Green/Red), if there is not voltage on both of the large terminals that you jumped with a screwdriver when pushing the start button then its the solenoid, but make sure you have power to the Yellow/Red and ground to the Green/Red before you replace it. Take your test light, unplug the solenoid and put your test light across the two wires, Yellow/Red and Green/Red, make sure you still have the Red and Black connected up at the switch and then press the start button, does the test light come on? If so all your wiring up to that point is ok and its just the solenoid.

[CodyRosa]

Oh I figured the screwdriver showrd it worked. I dont know to much about motors. How much is a solenoid? Im going to try and test it how you said to right now.

[CodyRosa]

Ok I tested it and it had power before and after I pushed the start button. I'm just going to assume its bad and i'll have to buy another one. I really only want the headlight though don't care so much for electric start.

[sammiefish]

How much is a solenoid?
less than $15 new to your door

[kb0nly]

They are cheap...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Relay-Solenoid-Honda-ATC200M-3-Wheeler-1984-1985-NEW-/190638804701?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c62f54edd&vxp=mtr

http://dratv.com/12vstswalal.html

[kb0nly]

Ok I tested it and it had power before and after I pushed the start button. I'm just going to assume its bad and i'll have to buy another one. I really only want the headlight though don't care so much for electric start.

The headlight should be working with the battery in, if its not then you will have to trace through the lighting circuit and find out whats bad there. I have the manuals on my server, link below in my signature.

[CodyRosa]

For the headlight do i need to use a ground? The light im using is a completely different one and only has two wires. I broke my old one and didn't have a lightbulb to begin with. If i need the ground what should i do then? because I dont think I can get a 3rd wire in there.

[kb0nly]

If it has two wires just connect the ground from the light to the Green wire, and the power from the light can go to the Blue or the White, the white is the Low Beam position on the switch, the Blue is the High Beam position on the switch. If neither the white or blue have power your light switch might need to be taken apart and cleaned up.

[CodyRosa]

Ahhh Kb0nly your a life saver! I got my low beam to work but the high beam isn't receiving any power. I'm guessing it needs to be cleaned up because I couldn't even move the dang hi low setting from low to hi! It was dang near impossible. I had to loosen the screw to move the thing. So tomorrow when I get up I will hopefully have my high beam and then i will have to fabricate a plate to mount a light to.

[kb0nly]

Cool... And thats no surprise on the switch, if it sat outside a while they get corroded and seized up. Disconnect your battery or disconnect the wiring to the switch to avoid any shorts then take the whole handlebar control off and tear it apart, some fine steel wool will do wonders on the contacts inside and to get it moving again smoothly some good penetrating oil will do the job, i like a little PB Blaster to let it soak a bit. When you put it back together add a little dielectric grease to the contacts, you can get it at any auto parts store, its the grease they sell for spark plug boots. And a little white lithium grease on the pivot point that the switch moves on also helps keep it working.

Just think you will be an old pro by the time you get it all working!! LOL No better way to learn then get a wrench and have at it.

Oh and this thread needs :pics:

[CodyRosa]

Ahh pics you say? Well here you are! 157259157260157261157262157263

Ok well as you see one is my ignition (just so you see how i did it) Where I want my headlight to be, you see my off, run, off switch.. its loose so i put caulking in it. Any way I can fix it? to make it tight again?? It was fine when i got it. The other two are of the Headlight thing. I cleaned it all up and found out when I have my headlight plugged into the white( low beam as you said) and switch the yellow nob to high beam it still stays on low(you'd think it would shut off right? since there's nothing to the high beam(blue wire) Also when I have my wheeler on and touch the wire to the white wire it sparks a little inside(i can see it through there clear casing) well when I put it to the high beam there is nothing like no power. I know you said clean it as it might not be getting power from sitting but what on earth do i have to clean? lol I cant get my fingers with sandpaper on those soldering points to clean them.

[kb0nly]

You should insulate the other two wires, well for sure the Black/White wire so it can't short on anything while running and cause ignition problems, at the ignition switch wiring.

That light switch is rough... One of the worst i have seen in a while. Looks like its worn out at the pivot screw. There should be a little plastic bushing in there if i remember right from taking mine apart. It should shut off the low beam when switching to the high beam, but i think its just so shot that its probably not working like it should. Mine was doing the same thing, it would keep the low beam on when switching to the high beam but if i wiggled it a few times it would shut off the low beam. After i went through it that problem went away.

Picture 5, the light switch or bottom half of the handlebar control is what i am talking about. Looks like your top half, the kill switch, isn't much better. You might be better off just spending a few bucks and replacing it. Check with Howdy on here, he might have a complete control in his warehouse! LOL

They also show up on ebay all the time. If you wanted to eliminate it completely you could install a couple switches elsewhere, put a toggle switch where the ignition switch was to short the Black/White and Green wires together for a kill switch and put another switch up on the headlight for the light. All depends on what you want to spend on it.

[tri again]

Crap can i change the title to atc 200m battery problems? I didn't mean to make it just atc 200m

when you try to edit, go down a little further and go advanced.
That will allow you to change the title.

click on:

service manual

for a wire diagram.

Some models MAY get the ground for the cdi from the kill switch
and some will run without the kill switch even connected.

[CodyRosa]

This post actually makes me laugh at one part.. how you said a plastic bushing.. if that's true mine must be WORN hahaha because there wasn't any plastic except some white square thing that slides on top. I did clean it a little so it doesn't look as bad. I can actually move the hi low beam easy now. When/if i decide to buy a new one (the run, off switch with the hi low beam ) Do i need to re solder? those 4 wires.

My mom also brought to my attention if a light doesn't have a setting for hi low the hi wont work.. in my case with a wheeler is that true? Like once i get power to my hi wire (blue) will it be any brighter? If I put it straight to the battery it is BRIGHT (spot light bright lol) or is that because it's direct power.

[kb0nly]

Yeah that switch is rough... LOL, looks like its pretty loose in the center as you can see a gap around the head of the screw. You won't have to solder anything, you just pull the switch and the harness off by unplugging the wires in the headlight housing and plug in the new one, easy peasy...

Listen to ma, she right.. LOL... What you have is a standard two wire light, positive and ground. The original light was like a car headlight, it had two filaments in the same bulb, one was the low beam, a lower wattage filament, and the other was the high beam, the higher wattage filament. So with your light it just needs power. If its dimmer connected to the blue or white wire up front then its probably due to your headlight switch not making a good enough connection yet, your losing a lot of power to a crappy connection in the switch, and so the light is receiving less power than it does connected directly to the battery.

Sounds like most of your trouble is crappy switches, no surprise there, been there done that!

Oh, hows it running now?

[CodyRosa]

Running 100% better! I bought a new throttle cable.. so it doesn't take off on me AND doesn't rev high when its just sitting. The difference in the two cables was oh idk 1 INCH hahaha if that tells you anything. I just figured out my carb issue.. it was constantly getting to much gas and running out the bottom through the hose. ( i have a plastic float so I don't know how to adjust it, but i got it so its all good now) I also was messing with the pilot screw and now my brand new spark plug isn't turning into carbon build up.. its actually more lean I think? I have to check tomorrow as I just drove it for like an hour. I still have one issue though.. one that i'm not to sure about, and once this one is done she is about as good as its gonna get! Anyways my spark is garbage lol easy way to put it. I can barely see it but I can run just fine with it. ( I just bought a new spark plug today) My dad said clean the magneto. What on earth is a magneto? I looked them up but didn't find to much. Could a dirty stator be a problem? I already cut that wire back(the one with the spark plug cap screws onto). Could something like this be causing my garbage spark? you know sense we already saw my light switch assembly lol

[kb0nly]

For the float since they are plastic generally when they start leaking its because the valve that the float moves up and down is worn on the rubber tip, replace that and clean the seat the valve goes up into, i like to use a small pipe cleaner just to clean any gunk out or a squirt of carb cleaner.

Check the plug after riding it for a bit, black is too rich, white is too lean, tanish brown is about right. Don't run it too long if you think its already lean, it will just be overheating!

As for the spark, nothing to clean. Since you already redid the spark plug cap end of the plug wire you can also redo the other end at the coil, but chances are your seeing the result of a weakening CDI box. There is no magneto to clean here. You have a stator coil and flywheel that sends voltage to the pulse generator (the spark advancer on the camshaft) and that pulse is fed to the CDI box thats mounted up by the ignition coil.

I would definitely check all the wiring connections, make sure they are clean, etc. But since its running but the spark just looks weak that means its a weak voltage, and generally that means the CDI box. Its possible its the coil, but i got to say that all the years and years i have worked on these things that i have yet to replace a coil, i usually end up replacing the CDI box and watch it go from weak spark to a really healthy bluish white spark.

What color is the spark? Yellow/gold is weak, blue to bluish white is perfect.

[CodyRosa]

It's a blue spark its just really dim. I tried my tri moto and that spark is the size of a dime lol mine is like the tip of a pen.. that little bearing hahaha.. and actually somehow my spark plug is going black again.. I put on on the same setting before where it was lean but now like i said its getting rich. Also my overflow tube thing on the bottom of the carb is leaking gas AGAIN!!!! I dont get it. Last night it was fine for once.. running a little lean and no gas was flowing out. Now its back to its old self again.. Rich(not to rich where carbon builds up in 30 seconds of running it) and overflowing.

Also when i cleaned my carb there was something black where that rubber tip is but I got that out and it was fine.

[kb0nly]

You probably have more crud in the float valve if its overflowing, thats the only reason it would overflow, due to the float valve not being sealed. So your probably going to have to take it apart again and check it. Probably also why your running rich since its overfull.

[CodyRosa]

Alright.. very possible.. I found to big chunks of something in my float bowl when i took it apart lol. They looked like rust chunks to be honest. That is also very possible since my tank was really rusty. I put the works in it and got most the rust out but maybe I loosened some up and now its going in the carb?

[kb0nly]

Yep, most likely.

Get a filter inline! $2 for a disposable plastic fuel filter. Get a few, change them as they fill with crud, it happens.

[CodyRosa]

Hmm a fuel filter? Would one for our jeeps work?? They look like ones i've seen on on other 3 wheeler's. Clear plastic, filter inside, about inch long maybe inch an a half, entry and an exit hole. I can't imagine it would be much different(like wouldn't work) I think I would just have to fit it in there.

[kb0nly]

Yep, thats what you need, a plain old cheap plastic filter. Just cut the fuel line and put it inline, that will keep your carb much much happier!

[CodyRosa]

Alright I will try that tomorrow, clean the carb, and update you on how it goes!