How to reproduce parts.

[jeswinehart]

There are several of us board members who reproduce parts for our trikes.
Another member uses some of the process I am about to link you all up with to build fantastic scale model tractors (he shows them off in open forum from time to time).
I am sure those folks, as well as myself, are willing to share their knowledge and experiences to help you along so don't hesitate to ask for input.
This thread should NOT be used for "why don't you make" or "can YOU make" so lets not let it go down that road please. This thread is to encourage those with the desire to make stuff, no matter what that stuff is so long as it is leagle + with in social moral standards.
I got my start at making parts when I needed a Tecate intake boot 45 months ago. The Mrs. + I are now actively making a little over 20 different trike related items.
If you have a idea to reproduce a item, make tee-totally new product, fix a broken what ever,,,, many different applications can be found with just these different folks I deal with on a regular basis.
Seat foam, I can NOT believe, to the best of my knowledge at least, there is not ONE person making new seat foams for our trikes (hint hint hint :) )
Anyways, go to these sites, look them over, call them for a free catalog
(you will find those catalogs extremely valuable sources of information and refer to them often like a manual)
4 links to where the Mrs. + I buy from but certainly many more companies out there (but probably buy from these folks and re-market under their name)
I highly suggest to check out the "how too" vidios and/or mold making vidios first to get you on the right tract in the process.
http://www.alumilite.com/
http://www.bjbenterprises.com/
http://www.polytek.com/
http://www.smooth-on.com/

Got something in mind of making (?) please share it here !
The Mrs. + myself newest product is a quad part (but still a Tecate). KIPS governor gear for the 87/88 Tecate quad, long out of production and rare,,,, well used to be rare :)
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[sixpackrt]

Some replacement foam for honda

http://www.shop.excelcustomforming.com/category.sc?categoryId=5

[jeswinehart]

Nice link ! unless I missed, no 86/87 250r, 350X foams, ain't checked for Tecate or Tri-Z yet

[sixpackrt]

Nice link ! unless I missed, no 86/87 250r, 350X foams, ain't checked for Tecate or Tri-Z yet

I only seen honda products. I would like to see some made for the tecate.

[Mosh]

Hi-flite is still making about 90% of all trike foams.

ESR is finishing final production on 85-89R cases.

[just ben]

Have you guys thought of making a left case for the 250r's?I believe cases are in production from an aftermarket company. not having a 250r I havn't read much into it.I'm sure someone who cares more than I do could put a link up somewhere for you or pm it yo you. I think john was pretty clear when he said this is not a why don't or could you thread.

[TrickyDickII]

Thanks for posting this info and links John! I've always wanted to try reproducing some impossible to find Cagiva parts. One being the intake of course. I have a NOS intake that I can use for the mold. Have you ever made any soft rubber grommets?

[jeswinehart]

Thanks for posting this info and links John! I've always wanted to try reproducing some impossible to find Cagiva parts. One being the intake of course. I have a NOS intake that I can use for the mold. Have you ever made any soft rubber grommets?

You are welcome Dick ! Yes, i have made rubber parts, as well as some of the other repro guys.
On using a rubber part as your pattern peice to copy, you will need what is a "Tin cure" silocone mold rubber. NOT platnuoum cure. The mold rubber will not cure out against most rubber products.
I will not tell you how many hundreds of dollars, wasted time that little goof has cost me.
In order to make intake boots, get one of your old junk ones and remove all the rubber from the metal mounting plate.
At that point you can make mold of the metal part to pull face plate parts from or to take somewhere and have them cut out for you.
You will need them to use as a insert for the mold you will make from your remaining NOS intake boot.
When looking at either plastic or rubber resins, this is always true no m,atter where you purchase.
Shore hardness what ever rubber will be represented by the letter A
Plastic resins are always represented by the letter D.
For instance, I use a shore 70 A hardness rurathane resin mix from BJB that has a fairly long cup time (so I do NOT need to be in a big hurry to pour before it sets up)

[atc300r]

The intake info is great.I would like to learn to do this. Id like to do aircooled 250r and 250and 350 odyssey intakes.

[jeswinehart]

Yeah, I am excited to see some interest in you guys making STUFF, that is why I started this post in the first place :)
I may very well need 83/84 R boot someday or even any of the other parts you folks may have a idea on making !
I know I went thru above carb boot process very quickly simply because I was at work and had to get back to those choirs (plus work inter-net is,,, well not the best at all).
I have about 2 days of evening work to attend too getting parts done + out the door then I will post up some detailed process pics,description and molds.
Believe me, I sure learned a lot by the seat of my pants so to speak and spanked my own arse several times by not doing it right. If this posting can help avert that for any one else, I am all about that for sure.
Give me a couple of days and I will do up "mold" talk. In the mean time I highly suggest you call above links and get some catologs coming your way.

[fire1]

Yeah, I am excited to see some interest in you guys making STUFF, that is why I started this post in the first place :)
I may very well need 83/84 R boot someday or even any of the other parts you folks may have a idea on making !
I know I went thru above carb boot process very quickly simply because I was at work and had to get back to those choirs (plus work inter-net is,,, well not the best at all).
I have about 2 days of evening work to attend too getting parts done + out the door then I will post up some detailed process pics,description and molds.
Believe me, I sure learned a lot by the seat of my pants so to speak and spanked my own arse several times by not doing it right. If this posting can help avert that for any one else, I am all about that for sure.
Give me a couple of days and I will do up "mold" talk. In the mean time I highly suggest you call above links and get some catologs coming your way.

Thanks for sharing the info and your talents. I would like to give it a shot at reproducing some parts. I look forward to more information.

[volfan537240]

This thread is gonna be awesome. Thanks for sharing this info.

[jeswinehart]

There is a excellent message to be learned in this posting.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/150350-DIY-carb-boot-advice-welcome

Research what you are thinking of making to make darn sure it is really not available.

[jeswinehart]

Thanks for posting this info and links John! I've always wanted to try reproducing some impossible to find Cagiva parts. One being the intake of course. I have a NOS intake that I can use for the mold. Have you ever made any soft rubber grommets?

Andy, this is how I made our intake boot molds. Like I said before, you will need a trashed one so you can remove the metal face plate.
You will have 2 options for the face plate that you will need to make the intake boot.
1- you can make a mold of the face plate like I done and simply make your own.
*** I used a atomized alu powder and Alumilite resin < (that cures way to fast for my liking and did not allow me to vacume out air after mixing resulting quite often in air bubble entrapment thus a potential weak part)
2- have the face plates cut < ( I have them laser cut from 1/4 inch alu for 6 dollars each when I order up 50 at a time)
*** I now know with different resins I can now make my own face plates that will hold up with no air bubble entrapment because I will have time to vacume out of resin. I may go back to that way since it is a heck of a lot cheaper to make them then buy them ***
How ever you get your inserts (face plate) done you can them "clay up" your nice intake boot to make mold.
*** I won't go any deeper into how to make mold or the claying up process since it is exsplained wayyy better in those catologs then I could ever type out here but those are terms you will read and hear reffered too***
Once you get your boot mold completed, you will put the insert in it, rubber band together and pour your resin mix. After the recomemded cure time of the urathane resin (rubber) (shore hardness of ??? something A) (I use shore 70A from BJB for our intake boots).
All my molds started as 2 piece squish molds. As my exspeianced has increased, I turned many into 2 piece pour molds for much easier use and much higher quilty product.

158648158649158650

[jeswinehart]

158651i want to try and explain some of the difference in the platinum and tin cure mold silicone since I had trouble understanding it and that kind of mistake is both expensive and discouraging right off the start.

Tin cure will cure in anything. It has virtually no inhibitions as to what it cures in. You can use it to make a mold of darn near anything. The down fall IMO is the longevity of them, they do hold up well for extended production runs or at least they don't for me. The correct term to use is library life or shelf life.
Platinum cure will NOT cure out against old jap rubber. Generally a higher shore hardness and will perform for years if taken care of properly (mold released used each and every time when pouring a part, stored properly (rubbed down with food grade silicone oil). My first intake boot mold is 45 months old and will still perform as advertised but simply too stiff to do a run of intake boots. It is platinum cure and I did not know how to take care of a mold for the first 2 years of doing this, I just put it back on the shelf when done with - wrong.

So when I needed to make molds last year I was fortunate enough to be able to borrow the 2 different model years of Tecate trike, both brand new oem never mounted in the bag.
I bit the bullet and doubled my mold cost by first claying up both of those boots and first using tin cure (because platinum will not cure out against old Jap rubber) to make the pink molds.
Having the pink molds made that produce a extremely fine detail mold, I used a ultra high density shore 90D hardness 2 part resin to make those 2 white "master" intake boots. They are hard as a rock, weight 5 times what a regular intake boot weigh and exact replicas of the oem originals.
You can see the laser cut inserts I used (see above post about those)
I figured I would never get that lucky to be able to borrow 2 brand new intake boots. Now I won't need to ask. I have them in "master" form.
I took the master pattern pieces and clyed them up and since the platinum silicone would cure out against the material I chose to make those masters, I was able to make 2 really fine production platinum molds (blue in color).
I sure hope this is in simple enough terms for all to understand, it do sound rather overwhelming but in a step by step approach it is very do-able by any one.

[TrickyDickII]

Thanks again John for the detailed how-to. I definitely have some junk intakes to go along with a NOS one. I'll have to start whittling on one to get to the plate.

[jeswinehart]

"Whittling" away at the old intake boot to get the metal face plate is a very good term of expression !
I have often replied back to folks when they have asked me if I wanted their old intake boot(s) so I could reuse the oem face plate to make replacement boots,,,,, I would NOT be making intake boots if I had to use that process ~ the oem ones are vulcanized,bonded to the metal in such a way it is a challenge to get all the old rubber off.
Now, with that said. If you are planning on a short run of those intake boots, say maybe 3 or 4 or what ever and have enough junkers to utilize, it may be well worth your time to simply use reclaimed oem metal intake boot face plates.
I placed order with Smooth on for more shore 80A urathane rubber resin that will cover 3 out of 4 of our products that we are out of stock of (Tecate intake boots being one of those items). I noticed in the back of catalog information about bonding agents so I asked the tech about that particular product. He advised that is not what I needed but has in stock (not in catalog or on web site) a product that will make bonding of urethane rubber to my alu face plates,,, well supposed to become one with each other (marry together to become one).
Needless to say I am quite stoked about that product since I have had to deal with some separation from time to time. I will post up more about that stuff once I get it and use + make a boot or two. Probably looking at next week end for that update.

[jeswinehart]

So, anyone taken the time to call and ask for any of the above companies catalogs ?

That product to bond resins to alu is fantastic. It is a Sherwin Williams product so most likely can be bought at any Sherwin Williams dealer.

[HuffieVA]

Not yet, but I plan on it, as soon as I devise a way to make a mold from a styrofoam tank model for my R5 (TZ Replica) project (I know, its not enough wheels but at least its a 2-Stroke...lol)

[jeswinehart]

Call Troy @ BJB. Believe me, he wants you to succeed and so do I NO matter what your project is ! http://www.bjbenterprises.com/epoxy/3d-printed-part-sealer/
I have thought about gas tanks and other large mass molds and it seems to be much more economical to use a blanket mold approach (definitely more advance + time consuming then I have done so far but it is all about your confidence level and taking it 1 step at a time IMHO)
The only resins I have found to be gasoline proof (so far) is Alumilite's amazing casting resin line up BUT cure time is way to quick for much of anything (3 minute cup time after A meets B resins but at least it don't need vacuuming).

[HuffieVA]

I was actually leaning fiberglass with a three part mold (right left combination then adding the bottom/tunnel) your post opened up alot of considerations. The closest thing to what I want that I could find is fiberglass and around $600, to me even If I spend that or more to be able to say I made it myself is well worth it... John, your an inspiration to say the least...

[tri-Z ripper]

very inspiring that is for sure!

[Smacksta]

This is awesome info. Thanks guys!! Love learning new things.

[jeswinehart]

I was actually leaning fiberglass with a three part mold (right left combination then adding the bottom/tunnel) your post opened up alot of considerations. The closest thing to what I want that I could find is fiberglass and around $600, to me even If I spend that or more to be able to say I made it myself is well worth it... John, your an inspiration to say the least...

On my lunch hour I was reading about the "mother mold" concept. it is supposed to cut down on the amount of the mold rubber used in making a very large part,,, like a fuel tank.
The mold rubber can add up in a heck of a hurry dollar wise so I can imagine using a brush on coating to get the exact detail, then backing it up with a spray foam in the mold box would hugely cut down material cost.
I think a 3 piece mold for something like a fuel tank would be perfect route to go. You would be able to plan your parting lines out exactly where you would like them and another plus is being able to de-mold so much easier.
Hopefully the resin makers come up with a slow setting, gas resistant material in the near future. The only material I have found to be fuel resistant is Alumilites Amazing casting resin and a couple other sister products. The bad, work time is well under 5 minutes once A + B are mixed.

[Sawfly]

not sure if my dad or bro brought this up, but i'm sure you're tracking that we're trying to reproduce those '86 headlight plastics.
zach and i think if we poured the mold at an angle until the bottom air release fills up with resin then plug that and continue to pour at an angle to make sure it fills all the air bubbles and whatnot.
we think it'll work but i'm just asking for another opinion.

yea or nay? or suggestions cause we keep getting one or 2 bubbles in very irritating areas and they're not consistent since we have all those fixed

[jeswinehart]

Yeah,,, ! I kinda forgot about you folks doing those, awesome !
Yes, vent hole stratigally placed take awy those pesky air entrapment problems. I use very small brake line and my cordless drill set on high speed to drill the mold rubber.
Just bevle the edge of the tubing and it walks right on thru your mold rubber.
Not all my molds utilize venting but for example I have turned all my intake boot "squish" molds into pour molds and by doing so there is a high spot inside that created a air pocket, I drill a vent hole at the top of that area that works perfectly.
Once I pull the intake boot out of mold I have a long thin piece of rubber that I simply snip off.

Sawfly, please put up some pictures of you guys work or refresh my memory of the link.

Thanks ! john

[Sawfly]

zach and i are gonna pour one tonight so ill post some pics of it when we get done

[jeswinehart]

Anybody given a go for making parts of any kind with this style of procedure, or variations of ???
The Mrs and I are finishing off resins we have on hand before our next new mold project begins since it will use different materials.

[Shep1970]

We texted/chatted last wk--Thank you for the tincure/30yr old rubber tip. Thanks for all the info actually...
I have a couple questions if thats ok?
Do you still use the food grade silicone oil for storage in a sealed container?
do you keep a part in the mold so it holds its shape?
Color/pigment - the company smooth on has regular or uvo- sunlight version- i ordered the sample pack regular pigment but maybe should have gotten the other. Hmmmm

I have a couple catalogs on the way/your right it will be alot easier when its in front of me instead of searching around online and taking notes. (Lots of notes)
Just messing around with plastic/rubber this time around- theres definetly a large learning curve.
Have a few hundred dollars in stuff on its way- from plastic tounge depressors(stir sticks) to large syringes and a scale, release spray, and a few different smaller size plastics/rubber mixes to play with, It should be fun..... But sure does add up quick! I'll add some pics here in a few days if thats ok.

Sorry for all the questions, not to many but any info would be help(thanks again)
Shep

[jeswinehart]

Great , glad you are havin a go at this Shep !
We use the food grade silicone to wipe inside of mold for rejuvenation and log term stoage.
Old butter knifes work excellent for stir stick but may be to big for smaller cups of resin mix (hard to balance on or off scale). Rubbing alcohol to clean up metal stir sticks and occasional drippings that happen. Lots of paper towels on hand keeps messes in check also. Rubbing alcohol will clean the plastic tounge depresses well so long as mix hasn't cured to much

[Shep1970]

I Never realized how many different forums/writings there is out there on this, and there is definetly some conflicting info out there. just have to wait for the fedex guy now.....thanks again

Shep

[jeswinehart]

Have you built or bought a vacume chamber yet for pulling air out of mold rubber and resin mix ?

[Shep1970]

Not yet- i've been browsing ebay, probably going for a 3-gallon, i suppose they all work about the same. I couldn't have too many packages delivered the same couple days or the wife would get nosey. I got tin-cured mold max 30/platinum-cured rtv-22a i believe it was and 244012 but in like 2-pint or so sizes. Just to experiment.
Oh- and some color 244013
I need to pick up non sulfer clay too(one guy i read about uses playdough? But i'll get plasticine
Shep
The wife figures it all out eventually, but she's good.

[jeswinehart]

You will definitely want to get a vacume set up in place before making any molds or resin pours.
There will be pockets of air in mold for sure,,, maybe right at your pattern peice (part you are making mold of).
I made my main container from a scuba tank and home made gasket. Vacume machine came from work,,, free. 3/4 inch lean came from MSc industrial supply and was over 100 dollars. Imploded 1/2 inch plexis glass and it was VIOLENT !
I also pressure cast as much as I can. The Tecate intake boot mold is in there now,,,, I am low on those 84/85 ones.
Various pics of rest of hobby room of work area, mold library and,,,,, stuff.
Harbor freight for painters pot to turn into pressure caster.

[Shep1970]

Geez, you'll have to move into that re-done garage.... I read about the painters pot system somewhere, looks good.
I like the bilboard of notes....
Shep

[jeswinehart]

Lol ,,,, those are all of the Mrs. and mine recipes. Gram amounts, proceedures, tip.
Different company's resins vs. another company's product.
Memory is shot,,, gots to have notes :)
Hopefully your wife will find a interest in this type of hobby.
Mine just swipes all the little molds and wants nothing to do with roto mold or pressure casting.
BUT, the kicker is when I sell a part she gets the money cause she made it ! I buy everything ,,,,,, Oh what the heck.
Happy wife = happy life :)

[Shep1970]

Im really feeling like a mad scientist now john. Kids say i need one of those white dr. gowns. I said i'd get one of the reverse
Tied in back butt hanging out one's....(joking) 244261 now to start "mixin"

Shep

[jeswinehart]

Looking like a pro for sure !
Next a pressure casting device ???

[Shep1970]

Pressure casting-maybe in time... For now i'll just fool around with what i have. (This winter maybe)
Been playing with the vac chamber, there's alot more air trapped in the mix than i would have thought.
One of the rings came out but broke, (bjb mix) its pretty thin in areas, have another one in mold now.
The tank rubbers were before i recieved vacuum (air bubble). But i have another one (vacuumed) brewing now, so we'll see. 244325 244326

Shep

[jeswinehart]

Wow, darn near gin clear on the broken peice. Mighty addicting hobby ~ eh :)

[Shep1970]

VERY addicting hobby. 2nd-3rd ring came out but there very fragile where the part is very thin. Im going to keep trying with the tc-878 i have more on the way. The problem i'm having is i always make a little extra so i make a mold for the extra.
Things just keep multiplying!!! 244647

Edit/ got it,(different product) but i can see where a pressure tank would come in handy with those air pockets.244793
Shep

[Shep1970]

John, hope its ok i put this here-
Its been very cold last few days i've got some work done on the 86/87 headlight shell, i know the 250r is close but i gotta try the 200x one. I have the outer shell mold cast and now/next for the inner/core. I'll update when theirs some more progress/or...
I have to try compressed air to remove this pattern, its still holding in one small spot i cant get to. Also i dont want to damage this vry nice shroud im using. Only issue is the compressor is in the garage and its 3 degrees(too cold for me) im just glad all my silicone set nice.
Here's pics
248841 248842 248843 248844

Ps, this is a pain in the *** but its coming along.

Shep

[jeswinehart]

Shep, use rubbing alcohol to help free part from your mold. It will not hurt your silicone mold rubber one bit and should not harm oem part you used as pattern.
With most resins we make parts from we need to be a little cautious using rubbing alcohol. BJB'S TC 878 ain't too much liking long term exposure to it,,,, but once part is retrieved compress air blown on part evaporates it quickly enough.
I give all the flywheels a rub down with rubbing alcohol to remove oils and what ever before clear coating.
Mrs. just got done doing a one off mold and part for anther board nember,,,, probly the only car part not currently being reproduced (he paints the details)

[Shep1970]

Thank you john, the rubbing alcohol trick was "very"much appreciated it loosened it all up just enough.
Now to clean it all up to put it back together for step#2 or rather step about #7 well u know...
248869 248870

In one of many test i had to run- found that lowes/home depot rubber plugs are "not" compatable with platnum cure, glad i found that out though..could have been a disaster- made my own plugs (clear ones) black is store bought
248871
Needed the plugs so i could fill the section in front of the light brackets so the inner core could have the brackets molded in like oem. “Should work”, the plug area also will give the halves something more to line up with(lock into) well we’ll see
Shep

[jeswinehart]

C'mon Shep,,,, you have a reproduction headlight shell yet ???
I know better then anyone these sorts of things take time but, yeah,,,,, I'm impatient too :)

[Shep1970]

Oh, i'm trying- i've gone through 2-gallons of silicone in the last couple wks. I have none left for the inner core, have to pay bills before i order more. I have plenty of the tc-878 and another different 2-part resin mix i'm going to try out. But bills come first. Im getting very antsy about getting this going though or atleast see a result good or bad...
(It'll be a couple wks) hopefully not that long. gotta let my play $ fill up.
Shep

Edit:
Ok- have i think everything i need so between today+tomorrow i should have some pics. I hope in two days....
Edit again:

I put some pics in the open forum, i’ll repost them here so they’ll be easy to find later on.
My mold worked out great: each part is getting better as i go, the first green was a fail (not enough material).
Well here’s the pics
249466 249467
249472 249473 249474
249475 249476 the red is more like a maier red/ i gotta work on blending colors for honda’s red, or close to it.

Thats it for pics for now, i’m still in shock that it all came together as good as it did.
I gotta put at least one together just to make sure there’s no issues, i’ll add that pic when i do.
Thanks for looking,

Shep

[Shep1970]

1986/87 shell repro- DONE!!!
—Below is what i have invested so far—-
So about 45hrs labor
About $300 for silicone (for the mold)
Paid $70 for the plastic mix to try out, it will make a few shells, around 10 but i can do more shells if i buy more mix
A little bit of cost into it but i feel really good about it....
Project complete: Yay!!!!
249639 249640 249641 249642 249643 249647
All came together nicely.
Will offer them soon/ this is not the thread for that though. There not very sought after but thats ok i learned alot from this.
Thanks for looking,


Shep

[shindig]

Very nice. I'd definitely be in for a red one for an 86 200X.

[jeswinehart]

Well done !!!

[Billy Golightly]

man, that looks great! Gotta say that is the one thing about the membership around here, after near 20 years (next year!!) I think we've got some of the most innovative and ingenious folks there are here making stuff.

[lndy650]

Thats some really nice work Shep.

[Shep1970]

Thanks guys, i kinda surprised myself that the project came out as well as it did. (Still in shock) ha. They ought to go nicely with the billet pins in the 3WW shop. So i’m not sure who’s making them but be sure to keep’em around a bit longer...
249667
I thought someone was making the plastic pins also but havent seen them for a while, or maybe not.
Thanks again,
Shep

[fabiodriven]

I'm truly impressed Shep! I'm in for an SX shell if you ever make them!

[shindig]

Thanks guys, i kinda surprised myself that the project came out as well as it did. (Still in shock) ha. They ought to go nicely with the billet pins in the 3WW shop. So i’m not sure who’s making them but be sure to keep’em around a bit longer...
249667
I thought someone was making the plastic pins also but havent seen them for a while, or maybe not.
Thanks again,
Shep

Now we need someone to make the 200x fuel tank guard, the little piece of rubber that wraps about the base of the tank where the rear fender meets. There was one (and I mean only one, not two like I need) on eBay for $40. :(

[Shep1970]

Oh ya, i have those. I have to make more but yup there being made. Also have the rear shock dial cover done and kicker pad done. These things will be available soon, i’m workin’ on it :rolleyes: Yup been busy here.
249672 (my messy counter pic) and “some” of the molds too

Later,
Shep

[shindig]

Oh ya, i have those. I have to make more but yup there being made. Also have the rear shock dial cover done and kicker pad done. These things will be available soon, i’m workin’ on it :rolleyes: Yup been busy here.
249672 (my messy counter pic) and “some” of the molds too

Later,
Shep

Awesome Shep. I'll definitely be a customer. I've been looking for those tank guards for over a year and to find out you have them all...lol. I think I paid $30 off eBay for a used kicker pad years ago...sigh.

[dirtwheels]

These look great Shep. Keep up the good work!

[Shep1970]

Sooo this is what happens when i add a drop of white in right before i pour and dont mix it :mad:enough. Crud it was a nice honda red too and solid except for a few “small” bubbles around the inner edge. Live and learn i guess. 249855 249856 249857 249858 249859 249860
249861 249862

I suppose atleast i learned how to get honda red now or very close to it :Bounce
Thanks for looking
Kinda looks sunfaded but “not”
Shep

[ironchop]

I wonder if you could boil it in red Rit dye and make it look uniform.

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk

[Shep1970]

I wonder if you could boil it in red Rit dye and make it look uniform.

Sent from my Z958 using Tapatalk
Good question, hmmm. It’ll probably just end up on the bargain rack- If i tried that dye i’d be red for a month....and the counter, floor, the cat

Shep

[jakep53]

damn you made fast work of that stuff!! it looks great! noob question just say you had enough stuff could something as large as a rear fender be made or it cant be done?

[jeswinehart]

The red/white number plate was my fine example of a idea that didn't quite turn out too my liking.
Since it was one of the first from a new mold,,,, I keep it for re-making a new mold.
Speaking of new molds. I get to start the claying process ALL over on the new nbe plate mold :( ,,,, thought I could do it this way but heck no,,,, parting lines on the sides would look terrible.
At least all I am out is time,,,,

[Shep1970]

Well you tried and you know how to fix it john so thats a good thing.
I couldn’t tell you how many times i started over on this mold, i would get so far into it and realize yup thats not going to work. Even after i started pouring the mold itself i gave it a 50/50 shot.
Wife got me a pressure chamber for x-mas (paint pot) 2.5 gallon, of course this mold is 16”x 12”x11” and weighs about 30lbs(guessing). She’s not not fitting in there(no/way), i may need to upgrade....but so far so good

Jakep53- i think this is the largest i would ever attempt/ and this size is pushing the limits i think.
Maybe a 350x rear mudflap/ no nevermind..

Shep

[Shep1970]

Ok well i ordered and recieved 2-gallons this time of a different mixture from Alumilite (shipping price was great)! $7.50 thanks john.
The other mix i had i could demold in 20mins or so which i liked but firmed up in 2mins from mix to pour (not enough time)
this new mix gives me about 6mins to pour into mold once it get mixed so i have time to vacume chamber it first
But demold time is close to 6hrs☹️ But thats ok considering this result:Bounce
The shell is/was still soft at the time i demolded it a couple hours ago but seems nice and firm with just a little flex now which is the result i wanted.
This new “red” shell came out of the mold perfect/ no clean up on this yet and not much needed, nice glossy finish too/ solid with no air bubbles anywhere- yay!!! So i found a new mix i’m using for these shells,

250787 250788
Thanks for looking,
Shep

[fabiodriven]

That's truly impressive Shep! Glamy's so proud right now!

[Shep1970]

Glamy’s been awful quiet lately....
i tell you though you guys with extra time on your hands should look into picking up this hobby- lots of notes and #’s it keeps your head spinning (of course breathing some of the fumes maybe part of that).....ha....

Shep

[dirtwheels]

Looks like a home run Shep! The red looks spot-on this time around. Great work.

[Shawn Powell]

Shep that’s great! I bet 350x shells would be a big seller. (Hint hint)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Tri-Z 250]

Even when it comes to group buys, for a product a vendor already does and won't produce without a minimum order. You don't always need to be the Mad Scientist, you can be the Rep or a simple funding support Consumer. The level of hands on approach the members here have taken is no doubt Top honors to what drives this Community. The small production high value items, lead the road to the what else can I do, which is the bonus. I'm a CONSUMER, I have many members items; some of whom I missed the opportunity to thank with a handshake. I value each of them at more than the price I paid. The opportunity to get most of these items comes around very rarely. So support those who take the time buy their products, as a good member with understanding, and patiences to the time and preinvestment taken. At the end of the build when it's all done, these are the parts that make it just that more personal with extra value. Just think how rare the items are now...don't be the guy that puts off getting on board there may not be another run.

[bkm]

Great job Shep. The 86 250r headlight shell would be very cool to have repopped. I just don't like the maier shells.

[350xman]

Hi Shep & Jeswinehart

Cool thread. I think its great that someone has take up the cause to make reproduction parts for 3 wheelers. I have a few questions for you guys. What type of plastic resin do you use for making your parts and is it comparable to the oem or maier plastics for deflection, stiffness or hardness and also the fit? I know the fit/finish has a large dependency on the original casting part you have to work with i.e. if the part was just out of the box new or old and worn/cracked up. I was wondering if you have a favourite brand of mold & liquid plastic making materials/company product line. I would like to reproduce some rubber or plastic motor/anti vibration mounts for some of my hi-performance go carts because the ones I use seem to get shredded very quickly.
I can't wait to see the 86 atc250r shell.

Thanks,
350XMAN

[jeswinehart]

Hi Shep & Jeswinehart

Cool thread. I think its great that someone has take up the cause to make reproduction parts for 3 wheelers. I have a few questions for you guys. What type of plastic resin do you use for making your parts and is it comparable to the oem or maier plastics for deflection, stiffness or hardness and also the fit? I know the fit/finish has a large dependency on the original casting part you have to work with i.e. if the part was just out of the box new or old and worn/cracked up. I was wondering if you have a favourite brand of mold & liquid plastic making materials/company product line. I would like to reproduce some rubber or plastic motor/anti vibration mounts for some of my hi-performance go carts because the ones I use seem to get shredded very quickly.
I can't wait to see the 86 atc250r shell.

Thanks,
350XMAN

For making a mold out of anything oem jap rubber you will need to use a tin cureold rubber. Anything hard plastic / metal you want to copy you can use either a tin cure or platinum cure mold rubber.
For darn near all our plastic parts we use BJB's TC-878.
Rubber parts mostly Alumilte flex series rubber.
Some of the rubber parts we make requires a much more higher performance, non memory rubber and we get it from Smooth On.
I think wife + I have like 5 different company's we order from,,, depends on which one of the 25+ different parts we make.
I beleive my opening post thread names sevral

[350xman]

Wow that 200x headlight shell turned out real nice!!!. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind telling me what type of different alumilite product you used this last time to create the shell.
"Ok well i ordered and recieved 2-gallons this time of a different mixture from Alumilite (shipping price was great)! $7.50 thanks john. "

I have an 86 cr80r that I would like to reproduce the lefthand seat side number plate and was curious what the new/different alumilite mixture/resin name is? Now the resin dye that you are using to color the part is it an alumilite product # or is it from smooth on# or your own creation/dilution?
Is this alumilite resin plastic as flexible as oem plastic or about the same. I d like something fairly durable so when the kid wipes out on the bike again it can take a bit of use without breaking or cracking up. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
350xman

[350xman]

Hi Jeswinehart

Thanks for the reply. I was checking out all those websites and alot of info on trying to pick out the correct mold making material for a persons application and same with picking a plastic or rubber resin to cast. Hopefully, their brochures will give more info/insight into the correct product for your applications.

Thanks
350xman

[jeswinehart]

Can you post up a front/back picture of that number plate Xman ?

[350xman]

I can post it next weekend because I would have to go back to my parents farm to get pics of the bike because thats where i store it, but I might be able to find some other pics of the front shot of the # plate and post them.

[Shep1970]

Wow that 200x headlight shell turned out real nice!!!. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind telling me what type of different alumilite product you used this last time to create the shell.
"Ok well i ordered and recieved 2-gallons this time of a different mixture from Alumilite (shipping price was great)! $7.50 thanks john. "

I have an 86 cr80r that I would like to reproduce the lefthand seat side number plate and was curious what the new/different alumilite mixture/resin name is? Now the resin dye that you are using to color the part is it an alumilite product # or is it from smooth on# or your own creation/dilution?
Is this alumilite resin plastic as flexible as oem plastic or about the same. I d like something fairly durable so when the kid wipes out on the bike again it can take a bit of use without breaking or cracking up. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
350xman

The alumilite product i’m using is the performance 65D. I’ve got “mostly” alumilite pigments but some other pigments from other companies as well. To compare it- it feels just like oem but i’d say stronger, close to the same flex also. I beefed up certain areas when i made my mold where honda’s were weak/ like the adjustment hole on bottom on these shells its just a tad thicker. I’ve done 4- shells one right after the other with no issues using the 65D so im happy
Still have to clean them up but: 250830 its going good:D

Shep

[shindig]

Awesome job Shep. Are you planning to sell them here or are you just going to hoard them?...lol.

[Shep1970]

Awesome job Shep. Are you planning to sell them here or are you just going to hoard them?...lol.
Hoard em’—- kidding,
working fulltime and trying to produce a few of these maybe out of my league (well
Maybe) I’m trying, i just don’t want to sell junk i’d like these to last. The new mix 65d mix “may” not be what i’m looking for/ made this black one on monday and tried to buff the top just a touch and found these very tiny air bubbles just under the surface 250894 250895butcouldn’t see them until i hit it with 1500 grit paper. I can’t sell them that way (I need to get it right) or very close to it. It could be just the black shell it happened to though and it was something i did different....
The first batch with other mix the only real problem was two or three small air bubbles just on the very back edges “but” was solid color everywhere else and could be polished up easily. (Could’nt see them when installed but bothered me anyway)
I may go back to the original mix i had i’m not sure yet (I’m working on getting them right) i just need to pour them with no family around because it all happens very quick.
Sorry just venting- but yes shindig
“Everythings for sale”.... i’m just trying to get better results. Wife says there perfect i’m just being anal...
I will offer them here when there ready, i may ebay a nice one just out of curiosity next wk, not sure yet though (i’m a buyer not a seller)-ha.
Still have to figure out swineharts favorite color so i can send him one...

Shep

[jeswinehart]

"Still have to figure out swineharts favorite color so i can send him one..." ~ LOL :) !!!
My favorite color would be the one you like the least, the one you say oh heck NO too. That's the one I will tag as sheps early work and proudly place in our personnel display case or our and others reproduction works.
No need to mail, we will hook up at TF2018 Shep.
Have you tried tc 878 for those ?

[Shep1970]

Yes, tc-878 i tried it seems the longer i let the product cure the more trapped air i get and without a pressure chamber large enough yet im getting air bubbles forming.
The quick setting mix worked the best but roughly 2-1/2 mins goes by quick as im sure you know. Actually its probably 1-1/2 mins the viscosity changes so fast - i need it very fluid to fill the mold.

I “think” an easy cure would be tc-878 and a pressure chamber large enough but they get costly pretty quick.
Keeping my eye out for a larger one.

Shep

[350xman]

HI Shep

So, when you mix in the dye/dyes into 65D how many drops would you have to use for your headlight shell? Is it a certain weight ratio of dye to 65D or do you just add x-amount of drops into your resign by trail and error until you get the right color?
Because your red headlight shells came out very nice and glossy/shinny with 65D. Did you have a chance to sand the red shells yet and if so did it produce or show any air bubbles just below the surface? Do different colored dyes mix differently and or produce more air bubbles from your experience? Sorry, to ask you guys so many questions but this is interesting stuff/man soap opera(as my wife puts it) for me being an mechanical engineer. I think this "Mad Scientist" reproduction part stuff is cool. Keep it up.
350xman

[Shep1970]

350xman, I found it mostly by trial and error but write it down each time/ its only a couple drops but its easy to have bigger drops than others.
No the dyes have nothing to do with bubbles, u cant use more then 5% dye or it would/could throw off the mix ratios.
I have learned not to get dye’s on ebay because they could have sat around a while/ get them from a supplier directly.

Nope i havent touched any shells since earlier in the week/we had a snow storm the other night and we are still without power!!!!! Its not fun/ lights actually flickered earlier so maybe thats a good sign.

I’m just a recent beginner in this and learning as i go/ kind of a hands on kinda hobby i’ve got a lot to learn myself still.....
Oh the tiny bubbles on the black shell could probably be sanded out/and buffed to a shine but no time or patiance for that.
Like say the bubbles are on the second/third layer in out of ten layers if that makes sence, they dont go all the way through.
Shep

[jeswinehart]

Yeah, wish I had a much larger pressure pot too. I'm using a modified paint spray paint canister,,, like 5 gallon I think size wise, from harbor freight.
How about the baby powder trick,,, try it yet ?
You wouldn't want to powder the "show" side as it would leave surface a satin finnish.
I use baby powder in the roto mold machine molds for coolant bottles,,, it gives the tc 878 a nice nylon effect as well helping with bubble dispersion.
If I didn't use it these bottles would be gloss finnish look for sure

[Shep1970]

Actually did try the baby powder (i remembered you talked about it before) but i powdered the inner and outer mold it (was a mess) now that i think about it it was possibly this black shell, hmmmm crud it was late sunday or early monday. But thankyou that is something i did different so maybe....Now u got me thinking and it is tiny white spots too, i didnt have a fine brush to dust it out so i just knocked it around maybe i missed a clump and it mixed in.
(Those coolant bottles look great!!)
Shep

[jeswinehart]

We used to use a fine bristled paint brish but I found a old fashion shaving cream brush,,, the round fine haired ones at a yard sale so that's what we now use. It moves the powd around well with out screwing up mold release (streaking I call it).
We knock out excess and use compressed air to blow rest out,,, barely looks like you put the powder in there

[350xman]

Hi Guys

Just was thinking the other day about how you guys preserved your oem decals on any of the parts you mold from. What/how did you protect/preserve your oem decals when you molded from your oem parts?

350xman

[jeswinehart]

Well for me all decals come off or they would outline in the mold material.
I have added "U.S.A." to many of our parts simply by using a lable making machine. Put the lable where I want it and pour mold rubber ~ poof,,, it's in the mold.
IT is always best to use the best of the best pattern peice (part you are wanting to reproduce) because your mold will show any perfections.
I have said in the past that if your pattern peice has 2 scratch and a smiley face,,, your mold will have the same and any parts pulled from it will have exact same.
I am doing a mold rubber pour tonight for new tecate intake boots. When I had 2 new in the bag intakes sent to me I made "masters" of them since I was sure I would never ever see brand new 84/85 + 86/87 Kawasaki intake boot's again.
The other round part you see clay ed up is for Yamaha Tri-z,,, rear bearing dust seal that is no longer availabe. Only needed if guys want to use O.E.M. bearings (why would you want after market bearings when oem are availabe,,, they are the best imo).

[350xman]

Hi Shep & Jeswinehart

I ordered a small starter kit from smooth on to try make the cr80 back plastic plate if my deal falls through with a guy that is a big time honda collector of all types of bikes,atv,atc and he has a ton of NOS OEM parts that he has stock piled years ago. So, if this deal doesn't pan out I will then try make the back plastic plate. But I was curious what color pigments you used in your honda atc passion red color scheme for your plastic resin mixture? I understand if you don't want to give out your exact honda atc red color recipe but if you could/would let me know what color pigment you use in the recipe that would be awesome(i.e. used alumilite flo red, white, black, brown color pigments in mixture etc?)
Thank you.

350xman

[jeswinehart]

Well for me its a bit of trial and error largely depending on what the resin being used cures out to be,,, if not colored.
If it cures out white (uncolored) you hafta factor that in with colorant (which is a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro to do imo).
When ever possible I use a material that is suitable for the project and if it cures clear or at least a translucent ~ BONUS.
I wish all resins cured clear,,, oh that would make it so much easier.
The Mrs. and I are so used to using BJB's TC-878 resin for many of our parts because it has the property's and cures out clear so for us it is easier to color.
Unless a dark color is needed we almost aways need to add a drop or 2 of white for a base, then add what ever color needed.
Tecate green takes flo-green with a dash of yellow. Honda red takes red with a dash of orange. The Mrs. is much better at the colors then I am so I ask her help a lot when doing something I am not accustom to like Yamaha royal blue.

[jeswinehart]

With these Tecate coolant bottles I'm doing a run of the total mix is 230 grams of BJB' TC-878 that cures clear. I use 3 small drops of white to get the translucent effect need.
Those colorants are powerful !

[jeswinehart]

Hi Shep & Jeswinehart

I ordered a small starter kit from smooth on to try make the cr80 back plastic plate if my deal falls through with a guy that is a big time honda collector of all types of bikes,atv,atc and he has a ton of NOS OEM parts that he has stock piled years ago. So, if this deal doesn't pan out I will then try make the back plastic plate. But I was curious what color pigments you used in your honda atc passion red color scheme for your plastic resin mixture? I understand if you don't want to give out your exact honda atc red color recipe but if you could/would let me know what color pigment you use in the recipe that would be awesome(i.e. used alumilite flo red, white, black, brown color pigments in mixture etc?)
Thank you.

350xman

Please keep us posted on your work Xman ! I am sure Shep is just as interested see'ing your progress as well as others.

[Shep1970]

I found the alumilite flo-red to be more of an orange, (pic) also alumilite red to be more of a maroon in color.
BJB enterprizes has a nice looking cherry red that i’m trying next but only sell it by 4ounce at $30 a bottle.
This color chart is BJB’s 251374 251375
Hope this helps you 350xman.
Alot of trial+error, your A+b total mix size will determine your amount of color added it will teach you to have some patience :D
One more quick pic, its a fail of alumilites blue with a couple drops of white 251376 sometimes 2-1/2 minutes goes by way too fast!!!
Shep

[350xman]

Hey Guys

Thanks for the info. It will help me out with a good starting point. I ll post some pics once make a small mold and play with the smooth on colors in some small batches and will post them up once I get the smooth on kit sometime this week.
I just assumed the honda red would have some black color pigment in it because its a bit darker then bright red/normal red. I also thought that you would always have add alot more of the pigment colors but it seems their pretty potent.

350xman

[Shep1970]

John, just recieved some of bjb’s Cherry red- I have to say I like it... right out of the bottle it’s almost a perfect match to Honda shells. :beer.
I’m Patiently waiting for 350xman’s progress?
Oh and I gotta add pics-251993 251994 251995 251996

Shep
Oem shell in pics
Edit: an hour later cured test piece 251997

[big specht]

It does look real close just maybe alittle to red than the oem color. Was that a cured test piece there ?

[Shep1970]

Just poured as pics were taken- but sets in 6-mins, so maybe 3-mins in mold, had to run out the door to take son#2 to dentist. I can’t wait to get back to check it. I’ll edit my last post with cured color (in an hour maybe)
Oh/ this mix is the 65d I’m not using for the shells but part a+b are the same color as shell mix I’m going with so just experimenting with it (I know it’s confusing)
65d - 6 min
Mix I’m using - 2 min set time
Shep

[jeswinehart]

Oh yeah Shep, thanks for the heads up on the cherry red,,, That looks sharp !
Pm me your address and I will send you some of the glow in dark powder for your next tail light.

[big specht]

Wtf will they think of next lol that's pretty cool. How long will it glow with out recharging it with a light ?

[jeswinehart]

Quite a long while big specht

Shep, you are doing amazing work my friend !

[shindig]

John, just recieved some of bjb’s Cherry red- I have to say I like it... right out of the bottle it’s almost a perfect match to Honda shells. :beer.
I’m Patiently waiting for 350xman’s progress?
Oh and I gotta add pics-251993 251994 251995 251996

Shep
Oem shell in pics
Edit: an hour later cured test piece 251997

Lookin good Shep, you got a buyer her for sure. I need a red one :)

[350xman]

Hey Guys

It s been a while since I had time to get onto the site to see how things are going... Nice work shep!! The headlight shells look great. your right that bjb cherry red looks very close to honda atc red.
Sorry, to disappoint you Shep but my mold making is right now on the back burner because work has been crazy busy and then my other part time/sideline Mechanical Engineering consulting business has explode way to busy... not enough hours in the day for my full time mechanical engineering job never mind trying to squeeze in time to do some mold but do them correctly... But I did close the deal on some nice vintage oem parts from seller overseas and just finalizing the shipping/importing... hopefully i can get those parts by my summer holidays in july and be able to some repop molds/parts. but i ll make sure to post some pics once things settle down at work in a few weeks... right now I am living vicariously through you(shep) and jeswinehart as master mold/part makers... keep it up!!!
ttyl
350xman

[350xman]

Hey Shep

Just out of curiosity how many drops of the cherry red did you have to add to get the color that close to honda red... I did some small sample cap lids with the red pigment that i received from smooth on and its way to bright for honda red but i guess i just gotta keep playing around...lol

350xman

[Shep1970]

Hey Shep

Just out of curiosity how many drops of the cherry red did you have to add to get the color that close to honda red... I did some small sample cap lids with the red pigment that i received from smooth on and its way to bright for honda red but i guess i just gotta keep playing around...lol

350xman
I didn’t care for smooth on’s Sample pack colors personally they never seemed to mix to well, but will work to play around with. How many drops do the shells take, no drops it’s more like a half teaspoon per 500grams (16oz)
Bjb’s cherry red as I’ve found is the only red pigment in this shade of red that’s out there.

I do hear you on work getting busy and less free time.....I just ordered some yellow casting brass/melts a few hundred degrees hotter than aluminum but I can’t wait until it gets here to cast some:Bounce (different hobby but the molding is basically the same concept. Now if I could cast metal molds for plastic/rubber parts that’d be interesting....
Shep

[350xman]

Hey Guys

Just curious if using some type of vibrator method would get rid of the air bubbles out of your plastic cast piece that is to big to fit in a pressure pot? Have you guys ever tried to do this and if so did it work or not work? Thanks.

350xman

[Shep1970]

350xman Not sure.....have found myself thinking about holding a back massager to the shell mold recently out of curiosity. The last shell I tapped the mold (its in a hard box) with a hammer lightly. I suppose it could work but may also dislodge other pockets of air though not many but all it takes is one in a not favorable spot. I have to do some in a few days maybe I’ll rig up some sort of vibrating table.

John, trikefest is looking like a 50/50 trip for me, if I don’t make it you’ll have a package coming to you before you leave (something for you+the prize table if u feel it’s worthy)

Alright, gotta go to work.....
Shep

[Arky-X]

To the top.......

I never had the fortunate opportunity to meet John but appreciated his expertise here.

Prayers for his family.

[Howdy]

Hey Guys

Just curious if using some type of vibrator method would get rid of the air bubbles out of your plastic cast piece that is to big to fit in a pressure pot? Have you guys ever tried to do this and if so did it work or not work? Thanks.

350xman

I'm not a expert, but I have some experience.

The pressure pot doesn't get rid of the air bubbles per-say. It actually causes them to compress into tiny to very tiny bubbles depending on the pressure used in the chamber. Using a pressure chamber will cause the parts to be harder. This can be good, or it can be very bad depending on the hardness that the part needs to be.

Note: vacuuming the mix before it's put in the mold causes the bubbles to expand and thus rise to the top faster and makes for minimal air bubbles if done properly. Almost all 2 part compounds need to be vacuumed before molding. A.C.R. resin has a set up time in 60-90 seconds. Thus it is one of the few resins that you have to be very fast at mixing, vacuuming, and pouring ( 60 seconds ). Sometimes I don't vacuum the ACR resin mix. I take my chances on air bubbles.

Vacuuming the resin mix in the mold: I have tried putting the resin mix ( 3 different types ) into the mold and then Vacuuming it while it is in the mold. It was not pretty at all. The 3 parts and 1 mold had to be throwed away. Not to mention the massive amount of time I had to take to clean the vacuum chamber out. Never again!!!!!

I don't have a pressure chamber set up yet. But I have the stuff to make it. Once I get my drive back to get back into the molding room I will put the Pressure chamber together and start using it for some stuff.
Howdy