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fabiodriven
11-29-2012, 12:58 PM
I will apologize ahead of time for the rant boys, but if you don't want to read it you don't have to.

I have this problem with people that seems to be reoccurring. It's happening more and more to the point where I've questioned if I'm the problem, but I know that's not the case. I don't understand why it is that people are insulted when you try to teach them something these days. I'm not referencing this place in particular, although I see it plenty on here. I also have this problem with people face-to-face as well.

On here it happens like this- Somebody asks a question. They are trying to fix something or maybe they've got an idea in their head that they're feeling out before they grab the torches and the welder. One would assume the reason they're asking a question is to gain knowledge or to learn from someone else's experience. The problem arises when somebody who is experienced in what they are attempting to learn about replies and the knowledge is taken as an insult or disregarded. Why? Why is it an insult when someone who knows more about a subject than you attempts to answer your question or to guide you? Why ask the question if you're not going to listen to the answer? It has gotten to the point on here where I have debated on not posting at all outside of our local ride thread. That's easier said then done for me though. I have a lot of spare time at work.

I take on a new kid at work to help out here. I do heavy truck inspections. He doesn't know what a king pin is, or a ball joint, a tie rod end, or a leaf spring. I'm starting from scratch. I took him under my wing and showed him what these components are, how they work, what they're like when they're worn out, and how they fail. At least I attempted to. Every time I try to show this kid something he starts talking before I can finish a sentence. He's trying to finish my thoughts and he is dead wrong 100% of the time. It got to the point a couple months back where he actually got mad at me when I was trying to teach him something and it turned into a big issue. Not only was it not a big issue, and not even a small issue, it was absolutely nothing that he got fired up about. He ended up getting chewed out by the owner and almost got fired because he wanted to argue about how a certain cord was being wrapped up on the inspection machine.

Even my own girlfriend I have these issues with. I'm 33 and she's 27 so there is a slight generation gap there, but it drives me nuts. I don't force her to learn things, she wants to know. Then when I go to show her she gets mad at me. I had to teach her how to use the wood stove in my house. It's something she has to know and she also wanted to know. It's our primary source of heat. I tried to explain to her how the dampers work, what kinds of woods do what, what to do and what not to do, etc... She got mad at me and said to forget it, she won't touch it. I had to explain to her that our home and our lives are on the line with this. It's serious stuff! But she'd rather get angry and not learn anything rather than simply listening to what I'm telling her and educate herself. Why? I've been heating houses with wood for over 20 years. Why not listen to somebody who's very educated in this field?

Customers come into my shop and ask me why their car is making this noise or not doing something it's supposed to, so I begin to explain. It amazes me how many times I start to explain something to somebody and they cut me off within the first 5 seconds of my explanation. Then I just stop. If they don't want to listen to the answer to the question they just asked me, that's their loss.

I was at a swap meet a couple weekends ago when a friendly camper neighbor came over to our site to chat. He had an old Dodge motorhome that he was very proud of and he obviously liked talking about. Now, in my book, a conversation goes like this- First you talk and I listen, then I talk and you listen, repeat. Very simple. After this guy talked for about 5 minutes straight about his motorhome, I started to tell him about one that I knew about that was local to me and in very good shape. It was virtually the same camper as his. Not only that, but it's for sale and it's priced very reasonably at $500. The engine alone is worth that! I got about 10 seconds into my sentence when he turned his back to me and started talking to someone else behind him. I was floored. HE came to MY site to talk to ME, then turned HIS back on ME the first time I tried to open my mouth. I didn't even get to tell him about the camper at all, let alone the fact that it was for sale at such a good price. Oh well, his loss.

I can assure anyone who is asking themselves if I talk down to people that I do not. There are plenty of guys on this forum who know me personally and can tell you I don't talk down to people. Also, I do not claim to know it all. I'll be the first to admit when I don't know something. I am smart though, and I got that way from listening to what people who know things that I don't have told me. I gladly take their wisdom if they're kind enough to hand it down to me. Old people are the best for this. Sure, they can't drive worth a damn or do anything at a normal pace, but they've been there and they've done that before. It would be stupid to pass up the opportunity to take wisdom from someone who is willing to give it to you. It's free, why wouldn't you take it?

It's no secret that I'm not happy with the direction this country is headed and some of my past rants are probably part of the reason so much I have to say gets dismissed so easily on here, but I'm not ashamed of how I feel nor am I afraid to speak my mind. I am afraid to share my wisdom now though, because it's so rarely appreciated. The vast majority of our population in the United States have been raised with far too much of a feeling of entitlement. Everyone thinks they're better than everyone else. They think they have the right to not be offended. People are too concerned with being offended or being made to think that somebody may know something that they don't (god forbid) to even realize the knowledge they are passing up.

So thank you all for the knowledge you have passed to me over the years here on 3ww. I will continue to soak it in for years to come. From this point forward though, I can not promise I will return the favor. I am sick of this behavior both here and outside of here and I just can't stomach any more of it. I am going to make an honest effort to post less and thereby avoid the whole problem altogether. End of rant.

ezmoney1979
11-29-2012, 01:37 PM
Ya know Fabio, you sound a lot like myself, we are also the same age. My wife (age 24) still won't listen to me on how to start "her" 450, shes always riding around, choke half on, or gas off, or trying to start with no choke, or. I have some of the same problems with people too, luckily my job doesnt require too much interaction with others. I am constantly biting my tongue and deleting posts I type out on here just to avoid some of the behavior you speak of. Hang in there buddy, its tough constantly being surrounded by idiots, even on the internet.

Mosh
11-29-2012, 03:08 PM
Let's see....about the same time as when:

Oprah said "dont spank your kids"

"everyone" got a trophy.. win lose or tie

"the real world' on MTV, showcased whining as an oscar nomination and a way to be recognized

The "Ten Commandments" where no longer allowed to be displayed at city hall

It became rude, and inappropriate to say the "Pledge of Allegiance" but okay to witness same sex partners holding hands in a public park in front of your family that still adheres to sound moral values...

I could go on..

Even worse than all that, is when someone tries to steel credit for others work and accomplishments, and are hailed as a hero or supported and thanked by others who don't know the facts...

Cave Rider
11-29-2012, 03:10 PM
Amen to that. You are NOT alone...on my lunch now at the dealership and am currently involved in this scenario today..wish me luck,ive already used this Weeks worth of "deep breaths" up. And I still have a day to go.

RIDE-RED 250r
11-29-2012, 03:25 PM
Sadly, respect, manners, and possibly most importantly, humility are fading away from our society at a pretty rapid pace.

Fab, I am about your age, going to be 35 in a couple months and I think as far as the rest of the population in our age group, people who think like us are sadly the minority and the gap is getting wider all the time. We live in a world of instant gratification the likes of which mankind has never experienced before in the past. Alot of people feel they are entitiled to this and that just because they breathe air.

And I agree with what you say on learning from the "old timers"... I've done a fair bit of farm work as I was growing up and my best friends growing up were farmers. It's utterly mind blowing the amount of practical knowledge packed into the mind of a seasoned farmer. When my best friend's father died at the young age of 54 (lifelong farmer), aside from the normal grieving of the loss, I couldn't help but feel a little more life knowledge was also lost that will probably be lost forever. I could go on with little examples I took note of over the years, even as a fairly young kid. But I don't want to drag this out too far..

But I think there IS hope to be had. We who still have a good moral compass and set of values can/should raise our children the way we were raised. It is the only way I see that has any hope of keeping some sense of principles and good citizenship alive. Even though it seems we are outnumbered....

And I too am grateful for all the help and knowledge I have been the benficiary of here on 3WW.

gus
11-29-2012, 03:29 PM
I now what you mean fabio I'm 20 and I'm no where near what your trying to explain for my age. And its True There is no respect for anyone no more I get it here at work drives me nuts! . I was thought to always mind my manners and give respect to any one even if you don't now them. I was never tought to be stuck up to act like my chit don't stink you now? When people try to explain to me how things work by dam I listen to them 100% because that's how I learn. I always wait till there done talking or explaining to me.

ATC-Eric
11-29-2012, 03:45 PM
So your telling me that brat that you were talking about a while back at your shop didnt get fired? Sorry to hear man.

El Camexican
11-29-2012, 03:49 PM
WTF Man? Are you depressed or something???

Look, some of what you wrote here could be copy pasted into how me and others feel about some people at times. My wife and daughter match up to your GF pretty good. My wife has a Dr. in front of her name and a Masters as well, but she can’t pump her own gas and throws up her arms and walks away if I take more than 5 minutes to explain something she asked about. The kid is the same way at times, BUT when someone else is doing the teaching they are all ears and eyes and get A+’s. I can’t explain it, that’s just how it works. Think back to when your parents were trying to instill a lesson into your head, If you’re like me you didn’t actually hear what they said till about 10 years later.

As far as other people, clients, posters, friends that don’t want an answer to the question they asked I have a personal motto that I’ve honed over the years, it goes like this: “Fu*k em”. Yes, it really is that simple. I try once and if it doesn’t seem to be what they want to hear I just say “Fu*k em” and move on. More often than not they come back to tell you that you were right.

Why not just ask yourself prior to giving advice on something if the person really wants to know everything you do? I use this with my wife, friends and co-workers now. When they ask a question that I feel requires a detailed answer I say “Do you want the Readers Digest version, or the whole thing?”, or “I can answer that if you want, but it’s going to take more than 5 minutes, do you still want to know?” Lots of time they just laugh and say “Tell me what you would do and not why” or “Let me call you back in a bit when I have a moment”. They know I talk a lot and they don’t always have the time to listen, that has to be respected, especially with strangers. You never know if they have a meeting they are late for, or some other reason that they can’t talk about the dangers of a worn ball joint for more than 2 minutes. We all know what it’s like to have someone put our ear in a death grip when we are in a rush to get going.

Now you can’t tell me that no one has ever heeded or appreciated your advice on something, so don’t punish everyone because of some other jerk, besides, it’s obviously not in your nature to sit on the sidelines of a topic you have knowledge of. Chill out and remember my motto, but don’t go changing on us.

RIDE-RED 250r
11-29-2012, 04:09 PM
Some real true words there Camexican. :beer

I know I listened to my Dad but didn't really hear him till years later...

El Camexican
11-29-2012, 06:07 PM
Some real true words there Camexican. :beer

I know I listened to my Dad but didn't really hear him till years later...

"Younger ears must be deafer than old, because only now can I clearly hear what I was told..."

Dirtcrasher
11-29-2012, 07:03 PM
People have read and seen me write "The degradation of society continues".

Give people SSI and their free phone and they are happy to be in an apartment for the rest of their lives!

People won't help older people such as holding a door picking something up for them that they dropped.

I was measuring up a "Hot Topic" HVAC system and took a break. I saw an old man fall and knock himself out; So I ran over to him as onlookers just watched (I am no medic). I tore my shirt off and placed it under his head. He woke up not knowing what happened. I asked him if he had any pain, if he could wiggle his toes and if he had feeling in his legs or arms. Finally a nurse was shopping and he had a diabetes on his bracelet and I let her take over. His wife was still in the store.

People don't understand that these "OLD MEN" are so full if information that enjoy sharing it with you, IF you are willing to listen. You think WE have tips and tricks? These guys built this country and then politicians and the government ran it into the ground.
What are your kids going to do when these "old birds" die? Many of them only know how to use the internet.

I have met so many of you; My best friends are DEEPA Jeff and Fabio. As well as all of the guys that ride with us, they know who they are, they live further away but all we do is have a great time. The guys bring better meals (to a mountain!) than I get at home and I can't think of any of us even arguing. This sport and the passion for trikes must be doing something good!! All the old friends are gone; they lie or steal from me and use me. NO MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!

If anyone has never been to Trikefest, you need to go. EVERYONE there goes around to all the other spots, many of them needing parts. EVERYONE at Trikefest makes it a fun time and we help each other.....

My friends actually GIVE A SH!T about me. We trade favors and ride and it's great. And there not afraid to tell me when I'm an idiot.

In 4th grade I met "Larry" and we have kept in touch. BUT, he only calls me so he can use my shop. So now I hand HIM the tools. He'll show up with nothing; oil/antifreeze/brake fluid and then he asks ME for beer and fluids. Ya get sick of being used after awhile.

Common courtesy is gone. And I agree, no one seems to listen, they talk over you when your trying to explain something, just sickening.

Many members don't even attempt to help themselves. I want 33" tires on nice wheels for my Tacoma, and I have read how difficult it is to get s full lock out of them without rubbing. I haven't even joined the forum, I'm doing my research before I look like a helpless newbie...........

I honestly think we will continue to spiral downwards along with more inflation.

bkm
11-29-2012, 07:13 PM
John I know its frustrating, but just like our former north of the border, now south of the border friend eluded to. F'em! People will either listen or they won't, its their loss and no one else's. Its kinda like my dad used to say, when you stop beating your head against the wall it will stop hurting. I was young and stupid and really didn't know what the hell he was trying to say until the day I was telling him how I was trying to help a buddy who just wouldn't listen, but he was the one who came to me for help. He reminded me of the above saying. Its really that simple when dealing with people who don't want to listen.

I have told myself lately that I will no longer participate in pissing contest's on here. Its just not worth it. My problem is being a Police Officer and having to deal with pissing matches or stupidity on a daily basis I tend to think I need to come on here and try and show people the light or the error of their ways. Its a flaw of mine and I apologize for acting this way. I came to this site with the intention of being seen and not heard, but its hard.

I need to realize this is a hobby and an outlet from the everyday buffoonery I deal with and if someone is acting the fool or won't listen, just move on to the next thread.

3Queen
11-29-2012, 07:31 PM
I am in nursing and get treated like crap at work all the time. I was always taught the golden rule, "Do onto others as you would want done to you". It seems that more and more that this doesnt apply in todays society. But Fabio dont let this bother you, you are a great person and there are people that are interested in your help.

M.Pargiello
11-29-2012, 10:15 PM
I could write a long post adding to this, but it would just echo what has been said. I'm really new to this site and don't know anyone here personally but see it on this forum alot. It is even worse on the j-body forum I was on, yeah... Im a Cavalier/Sunfire nut....it is so bad there and with alot of the members in person that I have removed myself from that community and even started to part out my custom Cavalier. It can really ruin an honest passion with such ignorance and disrespect from idiots who can't tell their heads from their asses. Now I'm here and see a recurring trend, but such is life.

Surround yourself with people who have common sense (its hard nowadays) and let the fools learn the hard way. Unfortunately this current society is based on protecting the stupid and rewarding the lazy. It truly is sad.

Scootertrash
11-29-2012, 11:01 PM
I won't add much more that that I agree with pretty much everything said here. I got a lotta years on most of ya, I'm 52. You guys in your 30's and younger may as well get used to it cuz it never ends.

Find solice in the fact that a large part of this community has more knowledge than a lot of college educated people. We can fix things in the middle of nowhere with a piece of bubble gum, some tire wire, a twisty tie, and some duct tape and get home when most people would be stuck for hours.
Somebody can bring some of us a few boxes of parts and in a short time we can build a running operable machine while others would throw the boxes in a dumpster and buy one.

Knowledge is power my friends, and with age comes wisdom(IF you choose to learn). And for you young know it alls who roll your eyes and say something like "whatever old man" Just remember what I said above. You'll see I was right. Ask any older person at what age they said to themselves "DAMN! Dad was a right!" right after that you will start thinking "Crap! I sound just like my parents did! :lol:

RIDE-RED 250r
11-30-2012, 10:07 AM
I love learning from the older generation. My grandfather who passed away in '10 was a VERY knowledgeable and self made man. He was one of 9 kids (8 of which were boys), his father died of polio back in '42 when my grandpa was 7. Grandpa ended up quitting school after the 8th grade and worked HARD for everything he had through life. He worked lumber mills, ladnscaping and ended up having a long and successfull career as a truck driver. Our state assemblyman sponsered a bill several years ago that would grant Korean War vets who never finished school their high school diplomas. Somewhat oddly enough, that seemed to be one of his most valued accomplishments as I think my grandpa was sort of ashamed all of his life that he never finished school.

But, the amount of REAL life knowledge he had was mind blowing. Everything from local history, logging, landscaping (he owned a backhoe, dozer and dumptruck and did landscaping for a time) and on and on. I still drive by homes that he designed and graded the beautiful golf course like yards for. And all by eye and experience!

I whiled away many hours with my grandfather as I matured into a young adult. Mostly just visiting and talking politics (which he LOVED) but as a side benefit I got to learn so much from him.

Much like a close friend and co-worker of mine now. He is a couple years older than my Dad and is curently fighting cancer. Last spring my Dad, brothers and I decided we wanted to build a simple hunting cabin out on Dads property. So, I got together with my brothers ans cut down a monster tree to saw lumber out of for the cabin. My friend mentioned above has a portable saw mill. So, I put the tree on the ground, bucked in to 9' lengths and hauled all the logs to Jack's house where I had my first hands on experience in sawing lumber out of logs. Again, another instance of soaking up as much knowledge as I can in a trade/skill that is quickly becoming a thing of the past. It made me want to hang up the truck keys and go into business doing that.

I usually feel like I'm all alone in the fact that I want to learn and help preserve the old ways of doing things... But let me tell ya, you guys are really making me feel like there is still hope!

fabiodriven
11-30-2012, 10:14 AM
All the posts are much appreciated and you guys did make me feel better. I was pretty bent out of shape yesterday about all of this.

Regardless, I am still backing off on my posting. At least about the trike stuff. Obviously I will still be in our local ride thread and discussing some things in the open forum. I do, after all, know many of you personally.

Nothing irks me more than when I'm attempting to help somebody and it's not appreciated. It's not typical of me to hold grudges, but that particular issue just goes up my arse sideways and won't soon be forgotten. First people whined about my sense of humor on here (which is an entirely different issue) so I backed off on the jokes. I started getting bored right there. I still tried to help people though, as I have been helped so much in the past. I'm obviously not happy with how that's been going either so I give up. The turds have won. I'll be quiet. Maybe someday that will change, but I'm all set right now. I've had my fill.

Mosh
11-30-2012, 10:20 AM
Nice thing about turds is, eventually the flies and rain make them disappear..

Billy Golightly
11-30-2012, 11:43 AM
I flipped out a bit the other day here at the office and had a bit of a tantrum, but nothing pisses me off more than someone telling me they dont know how to do something, asking my opinion, and then trying to argue with me about how I'm wrong afterwards. Thats like 3/2/1 kabooom for me.

Scootertrash
11-30-2012, 12:18 PM
Fab,
Maybe I missed your sense of humor or it happened before I got here. Don't matter. I'll listen to your jokes and humor (is it slightly warped? completely warped?) I don't care if they are eye rollers or groaners, I'll still get a smirk out of them. I say post 'em up! This IS the OPEN forum where we are supposed to post non-trike stuff. If others don't like you jokes and such they don't have to click on the thread. Even if our country is going down the crapper, we still need to laugh once in a while.

I'm waiting.............:naughty::beer

TimSr
11-30-2012, 01:39 PM
All the posts are much appreciated and you guys did make me feel better. I was pretty bent out of shape yesterday about all of this.

Regardless, I am still backing off on my posting. At least about the trike stuff. Obviously I will still be in our local ride thread and discussing some things in the open forum. I do, after all, know many of you personally.

Nothing irks me more than when I'm attempting to help somebody and it's not appreciated. It's not typical of me to hold grudges, but that particular issue just goes up my arse sideways and won't soon be forgotten. First people whined about my sense of humor on here (which is an entirely different issue) so I backed off on the jokes. I started getting bored right there. I still tried to help people though, as I have been helped so much in the past. I'm obviously not happy with how that's been going either so I give up. The turds have won. I'll be quiet. Maybe someday that will change, but I'm all set right now. I've had my fill.


At some point in your life, you will learn to sit back and watch people make stupid mistakes, watch them to go to artificial, internet fabricated geniuses for bad advice, and make more mistakes without feeling the need to intervene or prove that you knew the right answer all along. You learn to ignore public personal attacks and accusations that are not worthy of discussion by those too cowardly to speak to you privately and directly. You learn to keep your knowledge to yourself, and only reserve it for those who truly want and appreciate it. True maturity is finding the humility of not needing recognition from the masses, but being content by the respect you have earned by a handful of close individuals who are wise enough to seek knowledge and counsel you have to offer based on your experience, and to enjoy a private chuckle at the public arrogance of fools without a need to call them on it. You are also likely to find that the worst offenders are in the age group that finally has a younger generation to rag on for disrespect, and not the youngest generation who get most of the blame.


Print this out and revisit it on your 50th birthday. If Im still alive, you can buy me a beer.

Scootertrash
11-30-2012, 02:53 PM
This right here says it all:


True maturity is finding the humility of not needing recognition from the masses, but being content by the respect you have earned by a handful of close individuals who are wise enough to seek knowledge and counsel you have to offer based on your experience

That's that there old man wisdom I was talkin 'bout ;)

hoosierlogger
11-30-2012, 06:16 PM
At some point in your life, you will learn to sit back and watch people make stupid mistakes

I used to work for an old man that owned a hardware store. He trained us on electrical and plumbing problems and the best ways to fix them. He had the knowledge to pass on to us from 50 some years of doing it. We were constantly telling him how much it ticked the customers off to come in and have to talk to "kids" about their problems and how they were trying to remedy them. They were always second guessing us (even if they thought we might be right). Ill never forget what he told me, "Tell them what they need, and sell them what they want. Most of the time they will be to embarrassed to bring it back."


I know what you mean John, I saw a thread that I think you are referring to. Alot of times I find myself spending upwards of 5 minutes typing an answer, only to find myself erasing it after I wrote it for fear of the same thing you are talking about happening to me.

RIDE-RED 250r
11-30-2012, 09:21 PM
All the posts are much appreciated and you guys did make me feel better. I was pretty bent out of shape yesterday about all of this.

Regardless, I am still backing off on my posting. At least about the trike stuff. Obviously I will still be in our local ride thread and discussing some things in the open forum. I do, after all, know many of you personally.

Nothing irks me more than when I'm attempting to help somebody and it's not appreciated. It's not typical of me to hold grudges, but that particular issue just goes up my arse sideways and won't soon be forgotten. First people whined about my sense of humor on here (which is an entirely different issue) so I backed off on the jokes. I started getting bored right there. I still tried to help people though, as I have been helped so much in the past. I'm obviously not happy with how that's been going either so I give up. The turds have won. I'll be quiet. Maybe someday that will change, but I'm all set right now. I've had my fill.


I for one wish you wouldn't. I always enjoy reading what you have to say. :beer

ezmoney1979
11-30-2012, 10:12 PM
I for one wish you wouldn't. I always enjoy reading what you have to say. :beer
Yeah I hear ya, I kinda like the sarcastic a-hole myself. He's one of the main reasons I don't post stupid questions!

WisconsinJohn
12-01-2012, 12:51 AM
It's hard to bite your tongue when you are a few minutes or paragraphs into an explanation, and you are then ignored or the point is argued. It makes me want to tell people you're a fu@'n moron and walk away. The sense of entitlement for most people nowadays is nauseating. If you want the answer, ask then listen, ask a question, repeat...it's simple. I am very knowledgable in my career, yet I run into these situations daily with homeowners and contractors. I have been called arrogant, cocky or too confident. The ones who truly seek knowledge will appreciate a thorough and honest answer. But this approach will not work in sales...:lol:
I appreciate any and all knowledge gained from 3ww, and humor as well.
Isn't that the point?
Hazing the noobs
Getting technical answers, learning from the "old pros"
Getting a few laughs
A little bit of networking, maybe some "site" or "event" support and that's it.

Keep talkin sh$t, it's very appreciated!

tri again
12-01-2012, 07:16 AM
I flipped out a bit the other day here at the office and had a bit of a tantrum, but nothing pisses me off more than someone telling me they dont know how to do something, asking my opinion, and then trying to argue with me about how I'm wrong afterwards. Thats like 3/2/1 kabooom for me.

On a reverse note, didja ever know a little something and then after talking to someone, you know Less than before you started?

Beware of the consciousness vacuums.
Face it, lots of the work we do have life and death consequences.
Missing a cracked ball joint, signing off on some critical issue, or advice that could cause real life altering trouble.

Most everyone on here is very sincere about their ways through the world, want to learn and happy to share their mistakes and successes.

x2 with el camex. I usually ask if they want the short answer.
Best movie line lately: "I graduated from the top law school in the country, but you googled it". "You don't need me, I quit"

Some people don't want to know the truth, usually combined with the fact that they can Never be wrong. It's always someone elses fault, and commonly accompanied by subtle accusations.

Had a conversation with dad not too long ago about this exact topic.
The guy's a genius and has always been able to fix / do anything he tried.
He got fed up with a guy at work and said "you've been taking your own advice for a long time and where has it gotten you? Might be time to learn to listen."
I was floored.

I'm embarrased to say how much I got paid to listed to people's problems and honestly? it wasn't worth the aggravation.
They'd never listen and go ahead and do it 'wrong' anyway.

If I want advice, I go talk to someone who's done it successfully, many many times.

Also with fab on this, it's real easy to give up.
My latest answers have been : "I don't know, I skipped school that day"...and walk away.

Seems like no matter how much info we get from the extremely knowledgable, we learn best from our mistakes.

Scootertrash
12-01-2012, 09:03 AM
"You've been taking your own advice for a long time and where has it gotten you? Might be time to learn to listen."

That comment is gold right there!! Saved in my brain for future use.

El Camexican
12-01-2012, 01:17 PM
tri-again just raised a heck of a point. I lived with a woman for 8 years up North who’s Dad was a Millwright. The guy could do ANYTHING and had a tool for EVERYTHING. The guy had a hydraulic lift in his home garage which was large enough and tall enough to service two semi-tractors at once. This was in the middle of the city on a residential street! You had to see it to believe it. Electrical, welding, hydraulics, conventional machining, you name it he had the tools and the experience from watches to mining equipment. The guy could even build a gun with the tools in his basement (12” thick concrete walls by the way, he was a bit of a prepper)

Anyway, my point is that the guy couldn’t hold a job to save his life. In 8 years I knew him I never saw him at the same place for more than 3 months and every time he’d bring work into his shop the customers would never return. Not because his work wasn’t impeccable, or that his prices were high, but because he made his bosses and his clients feel like idiots by the time he finished telling them what was wrong with their ideas, or with the vehicle they had brought him to fix. He knew so much that no one wanted to hear it. You could approach him with a simple question about a topic you were well versed in and he have you second guessing everything you knew in 5 minutes. It’s not that he wasn’t willing to share his knowledge, to the contrary, you could ask for his opinion on gapping a sparkplug for a 350 Chevy and he have the conversation turned into a discussion about resistance, voltage, etc. in no time. By the time it was over you’d be left with a bunch of math formulas and told to figure out the gap from that.

He was an amazing person with more mechanical knowledge in his head than any one person I’ve ever met, but asking his advice on something was a very painful experience which you had to endure for a few hours if you wanted the answer. His quality of life suffered from this and he died a poor and lonely man.

tri again
12-02-2012, 12:58 AM
tri-again just raised a heck of a point. I lived with a woman for 8 years up North who’s Dad was a Millwright. The guy could do ANYTHING and had a tool for EVERYTHING. The guy had a hydraulic lift in his home garage which was large enough and tall enough to service two semi-tractors at once. This was in the middle of the city on a residential street! You had to see it to believe it. Electrical, welding, hydraulics, conventional machining, you name it he had the tools and the experience from watches to mining equipment. The guy could even build a gun with the tools in his basement (12” thick concrete walls by the way, he was a bit of a prepper)

Anyway, my point is that the guy couldn’t hold a job to save his life. In 8 years I knew him I never saw him at the same place for more than 3 months and every time he’d bring work into his shop the customers would never return. Not because his work wasn’t impeccable, or that his prices were high, but because he made his bosses and his clients feel like idiots by the time he finished telling them what was wrong with their ideas, or with the vehicle they had brought him to fix. He knew so much that no one wanted to hear it. You could approach him with a simple question about a topic you were well versed in and he have you second guessing everything you knew in 5 minutes. It’s not that he wasn’t willing to share his knowledge, to the contrary, you could ask for his opinion on gapping a sparkplug for a 350 Chevy and he have the conversation turned into a discussion about resistance, voltage, etc. in no time. By the time it was over you’d be left with a bunch of math formulas and told to figure out the gap from that.

He was an amazing person with more mechanical knowledge in his head than any one person I’ve ever met, but asking his advice on something was a very painful experience which you had to endure for a few hours if you wanted the answer. His quality of life suffered from this and he died a poor and lonely man.

Sounds like the perfect exception to the phrase:
"Those that can do, do. Those that can't do, teach."

I must admit, the older I get, the more I'm tempted to just drop (some) stuff off and have it fixed. Don't really care why it doesn't work, just fix it please.

Prior to recently, if I was working on something that didn't cooperate and you handed me a NEW one, I'd refuse it because I simply Had to outsmart whatever it was that didn't work.

Funny creatures we are.

KI4UJO
12-02-2012, 11:23 AM
I won't add much more that that I agree with pretty much everything said here. I got a lotta years on most of ya, I'm 52. You guys in your 30's and younger may as well get used to it cuz it never ends.

Find solice in the fact that a large part of this community has more knowledge than a lot of college educated people. We can fix things in the middle of nowhere with a piece of bubble gum, some tire wire, a twisty tie, and some duct tape and get home when most people would be stuck for hours.
Somebody can bring some of us a few boxes of parts and in a short time we can build a running operable machine while others would throw the boxes in a dumpster and buy one.

Knowledge is power my friends, and with age comes wisdom(IF you choose to learn). And for you young know it alls who roll your eyes and say something like "whatever old man" Just remember what I said above. You'll see I was right. Ask any older person at what age they said to themselves "DAMN! Dad was a right!" right after that you will start thinking "Crap! I sound just like my parents did! :lol:
You are exactly right. My Grandfather, who unfortunately passed in 2010, taught me almost everything I know mechanics wise. Without him, I probably would not even be on here.

Don't worry, not all young people are ignorant. I'm 15, and have no problem getting knowledge form another generation, especially the one that built this country.

Dirtcrasher
12-03-2012, 07:28 PM
I'm 15, and have no problem getting knowledge form another generation, especially the one that built this country.

There are good people out there, polite, responsible etc.

Glad to hear from the young people. I always feel better helping people rather than ignoring them.

We have a new generation now; I have a 21 yo tenant with 3 kids and 3 mothers. Obviously no one GUIDED or RAISED him correctly. He never sees or pays for the kids so I'm certain those kids will end up screwed up. We all need to be smacked around sometimes and it did smarten us up.

How hard is it to be a good person? Does that make you happy or do you enjoy being an ass?

KI4UJO
12-04-2012, 01:06 AM
There are good people out there, polite, responsible etc.


How hard is it to be a good person? Does that make you happy or do you enjoy being an ass?
I wonder the same thing about a lot of people when I walk into my school.

Stonewall
12-04-2012, 01:25 AM
I'm 18, and it absolutely scares the hell out of me that my generation is going to be running this country in a few years.

I very much appreciate any advice that anyone is willing to give me. The lack of respect that people have nowadays is appaling...

JayBone
12-04-2012, 10:46 AM
fabiodriven,

How funny! I say this all the time to myself. My dad told me one time when i was farting around as a kid. His saying "I forgot more than you will ever know). I think in many ways this is true and so i make it a point to learn other ways to do things. The world is wack! People are lazier than ever before AND ("Sheepal") is no doubt the best word to describe todays person. It's not going to get better because the way things work today is about faster, quicker, & less cost. Quality vs quantity and quantity will always win out.

The wood stove thing is funny and i can relate. My GF feels the need to open the top lid of my stove when the damper is closed. So you think after this happening a few times they would change and say that's not a good idea..lol Nope

tri again
12-05-2012, 05:24 AM
I'm 18, and it absolutely scares the hell out of me that my generation is going to be running this country in a few years.

I very much appreciate any advice that anyone is willing to give me. The lack of respect that people have nowadays is appaling...

x2
I often wonder WTF happened to the eco generation of the 60's and 70's who were appaled
that the Cauyahoga river (sp?) caught on fire because of all the pollution.
Common practice to just dump whatever into streams and rivers, hideous pesticides and animalistic human rights.

Some of them got into 'power' and made good, positive changes and other found an ez way to simply jump ship and capitalize on the weaknesses to accumulate 'unethical' wealth.

Some is simply human nature but most seems to be uncontrolled selfishness.

A smart parasite, like the beautiful moss on southern trees lives in harmony with it's partners and host and others, like a strep infection, will kill the host and lose it's own 'home' killing itself.

I don't know if bacteria have consciousness but they certainly didn't think that one through.

Congratulations at age 18 to even think of these things.

I work concert venues periodically and am always surprised what the 'kids' are into these days.
But I want to know what's tripping their triggers and what motivates them.
Why is hate music so popular, for instance?

I'd like to know what 'kidz these days' really want?
I guess every generation does, or maybe they didn't care. (enough)

Get a good education to get a good job?
Does that even work anymore?
We're all smart enough to invent something to make the world a better place, but rarely find the time.

So when people your age get into power / control positions, what do you think will happen?

Right now, it seems that there are so many different parameters and opinions, it's almost impossible to dig a ditch.
We need a comiittee of 12 to vote on it and 100 thousand dollar feasibility study to build a 100$ boat dock.

Seems like we're going backwards more than fwd.

I used to laugh at the joke about going so slow that that we can go backwards.

As for the lack of respect, that old geezer going a little too slow in his car may have just been a b17 pilot in WW2 who know more than I'd ever want to know and is part of the reason we are able to speak freely.

Hope that's not too heavy of a topic but I guess we're all in the same boat looking for answers, eh?

fabiodriven
01-31-2014, 09:54 PM
Everyone gets a trophy Mosh!

God forbid you teach anyone anything these days. I will never stop correcting wrong information on this forum, ever. If keeping good, accurate information on this forum is such a big deal then there is something wrong here, not with me. I'm not sure when the law passed that put people's feelings before the name of education, but it will be this country's downfall. Feelings that are hurt when they shouldn't be are feelings that should either be corrected or not be acknowledged at all in order to prevent perpetuating. I stand for knowledge and truth and if that makes me the one who's going to get a vacation that's just fine. I know there are people who know how I feel but I wish more would speak up.

Thank you.

briano
01-31-2014, 10:27 PM
^^^ I agree with you 100%. Not everyone deserves a trophy, sometimes there are idiots and they always will be. Feelings get in the way to much, the younger generation is a bunch of whining pu$$ies. They don't like to be corrected or be told what to do, it hurts their feelings. I'm 36, I have respect, I love to learn and when I was younger and I was an idiot, I got a kick in the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro. I'm glad I did, I feel it worked out. I can't imagine what things are going to be like when my 2 year old is my age. Now if you try to help someone they want you to do the work instead, that's no way to learn. So to all the pansies, roll up your sleeves and get dirty then when someone you know needs help, you can actually be useful because you know from hands on learning not from google.

DohcBikes
01-31-2014, 10:35 PM
Excellent timing for a bump on this thread Fabio......I certainly agree with the entirety of the original post, I hope some members here take the time to read it.

ezmoney1979
01-31-2014, 10:48 PM
Thank you Flabbyhoe! I commend you on your efforts to keep this site factual and informative. There has been a good deal of poor information being passed around here lately and it should be corrected, regardless of who's "feelings" get hurt. It creates a cluster fork of threads that one would have to sort through to find truth on particular topics. This site did not tolerate this kind of crap when I signed up a few years ago. You would actually get flamed for posting some of the things I have seen recently. The "stupidity is a ban-able offence" is just an empty threat that has never been utilized, although I can count many times when its use should be blatant.

So if any of you "know it all" post whores want to spout your crappy misinformation, don't let your ego get in the way of being corrected, we have all been wrong a time or two........... or for me, more times than I can count.

Bren_downe
01-31-2014, 11:55 PM
WTF???!! Where's my trophy? Thanks for the bump on this thread, or else I would have missed it.
I don't have much to add except keep up the good work! I come here to read and learn, and only post if I TRULY think I can be helpful or add in a productive manner. I think we all deserve threads packed with facts not speculation.
That is all

kazander
02-01-2014, 12:07 AM
I just found this thread because of the bump and I am liking and agreeing. Some people just dont want to understand. In our shop we keep from 3 to 7 college boys working at any point and it is amazing what they dont know and what they dont want to know. some last part of a day some last till they get their degree. we even have some that continue to work part time after their degree. but 1 in 20 might want to learn how to learn which I see is a major problem.

ScreaminRed
02-01-2014, 12:30 AM
I could have posted a like or a thank you on just about every post on here. It's really good to know there are realistic, common sense people still around that think the way i do. Sometimes, i feel like the minority and question myself because of how people are. When you are surrounded by lots of tards, it tends to wear on you over time. :) It's nice to see, i'm not really nuts! :lol:

rg97
02-01-2014, 01:02 AM
Well John you and I might both get a week off for this:banned:
I've been wrong on here before, and I have been corrected in the past. Everyone has at one point, and if it hasn't happened yet you're either a newbie or the smartest guy in the world. Thats life. The problem that I see is that once something, anything goes haywire, everybody jumps in.

You may disagree with me, and thats fine. This is my opinion.

I try to post as much as I can on the info that I am knowledgeable on, whether it be bikes that I have now or in the past, and, I'm not going to lie here, thats a pretty small list (all years 200x's and 185/200 e/m/s/es). Have I speculated? Yes, and like being wrong, everyone has at some point. I can count the number of times on one hand that I have, and I haven't been wrong in speculations. The thing is you will never see me post in a thread about Tecates, Tri-Z's, 70's, 90's, 110's or R and Big X's etc. unless its a compliment because I know next to nothing about them because of never owning one. The same applies to electrical problems. I've got no clue. I rarely give advice if it's something I do not or have not owned.

As you know, I posted my opinion in a thread a few days ago and was approached by John about it. I cannot speak for another member, but I think that someone else (not John or I) took it a little far and I am not involved in that.
The kicker for me is when I speculate once, I become a red flag for speculating every time after that. I tell a different member something from experience and everyone seems to blow it off as being a misinformative:postwhorespeculation :acr info, that is until I say that it is from experience. Once one person gets on the bandwagon, everyone else wants on. And this is not me only. I've seen it happen before, on other places than 3WW.
John complained about trying to teach someone something and they get insulted about it. I agree and it has happened to me outside of 3WW many a time, when I try and teach something to someone and that honest effort is taken the wrong way. What sets me off, and I regret it as I look back now, is when you try and teach someone something that they already know. I would say that that is a reason to become a little unsettled.

-*-*-*-
John, I've got nothing against you. You were right to say something to myself and another member about what we said to a poster regarding something that both of us knew not really anything about. Though, there are times to correct and times to let it go.
You're over twice my age, and more mature that me, that's a given. I think that some childish behavior occurred, and I'm probably the main culprit. You set me straight and I'll try to work on it.

I hope that everyone respects this as an honest post.
If you dont hear from John or I for a week though...:naughty::banned:

wisconsinite
02-01-2014, 01:56 AM
^^overall, a step in the right direction. But keep in mind, when you've dealt with the attitudes for 15-20 years, you'll know where some of these guys are coming from. Now, what say we all be friends?

ScreaminRed
02-01-2014, 03:28 AM
Well, I think certain people are not reading all the posts. This started back in 2012. For anyone to feel guilty, they must be guilty. It doesn't matter how special "you think" you are, show some freaking humility for god's sake! IMO, some people need to stfu and listen a bit and stop being so reactive. This is the internet. I'm not on here everyday, but I already see the disrespect as was posted previously. Read this entire post kids!

rg97
02-01-2014, 08:58 AM
I dont know who you're referring to but I did read everything here. I saw that it was originally posted in 2012, but it still applies two years later!

briano
02-01-2014, 09:37 AM
How about a nice group hug.

200x350xtriz250
02-01-2014, 10:42 AM
1 - I try to post as much as I can on the info that I am knowledgeable on....
2 - Have I speculated? Yes, and like being wrong, everyone has at some point.....
3 - The kicker for me is when I speculate once, I become a red flag for speculating every time after that. I tell a different member something from experience and everyone seems to blow it off as being a misinformative, that is until I say that it is from experience. Once one person gets on the bandwagon, everyone else wants on. And this is not me only. I've seen it happen before, on other places than 3WW.


I hope you don't mind rg97 but I copied excerpts from your post - this post is not directed at you but at us all.
#1 is exactly what we all want and need around here and no one wants anyone to stop posting what you know to be right or your personal experiences.
#2 is very true - the reaction and following actions are what count most
#3 is true for everyone. It is called a reputation. It takes years to build a good one and only minutes to kill one which is why it is so important to not speculate about what we do not know. If you read something that may be helpful elsewhere - post a link to that info and let the OP of the info be responsible for the accuracy. Don't pass it off as your own info or experience because you may be called on to give more detailed info or the info may be wrong - either of which can kill your reputation.

A week ago another member posted some poor information, I happened to catch it and posted it was wrong - I'm no expert but this I knew to be wrong. I think I struck a nerve with my post at first but in the end it was sorted out, posts were edited and deleted to get the right info out there and clean up the thread. It wasn't that hard to do but it took 2 to make it right.

Mosh
02-01-2014, 10:59 AM
Everyone gets a trophy Mosh!

God forbid you teach anyone anything these days. I will never stop correcting wrong information on this forum, ever. If keeping good, accurate information on this forum is such a big deal then there is something wrong here, not with me. I'm not sure when the law passed that put people's feelings before the name of education, but it will be this country's downfall. Feelings that are hurt when they shouldn't be are feelings that should either be corrected or not be acknowledged at all in order to prevent perpetuating. I stand for knowledge and truth and if that makes me the one who's going to get a vacation that's just fine. I know there are people who know how I feel but I wish more would speak up.

Thank you.


You know I was completely wrong in that statement.
It should say "Everybody Demands or expects a trophy."
Hell I know of some morons that actually buy their own trophies. Seriously

As far as sticking up for what you believe in, or truth or honesty, rare commodity these days. And people generally take it offensively when you do stick up for good morals or doing the right thing. I am so tired of this "everyone has a special condition" thing. I have an uncle with Down Syndrome. He does have a special condition.
Being a hard headed, proud, punk is not a special condition. It is a lack of discipline.
Most of those generally get their feelings hurt too easy.

DohcBikes
02-01-2014, 11:34 AM
A week ago another member posted some poor information, I happened to catch it and posted it was wrong - I'm no expert but this I knew to be wrong. I think I struck a nerve with my post at first but in the end it was sorted out, posts were edited and deleted to get the right info out there and clean up the thread. It wasn't that hard to do but it took 2 to make it right.

The person he is referring to is me... someone had asked about motor swaps into an 86 200x. I missed that it was an 86 and completely jumped the gun, telling the o.p. that a Lifan was a bolt in option. As I and most others here well know, this is not the case. To be completely honest, I had reread the original post, and knew I had made the mistake, and since the o.p. seemed to understand on his own that it would take modifications to fit, I just left it unedited.

Well that was a mistake, because there are too many educated and experienced eyes seeing what you are posting. I was rightly corrected, and yes I will admit that I was rattled for a second, mostly angry at myself for making such a stupid mistake, but I admitted the mistake, apologized to the o.p. and thanked 200x300xtriz250 for the correction. As he said, it wasn't an easy road, but we sorted it out ourselves, and straightened the thread out.:beer

Now... keep in mind that I could have stayed anonymous here, but men don't hide from their mistakes.

Rg, no one here is trying to pick on you or single you out. You are correct, we ALL make mistakes. What matters is that you admit it, apologize, and learn from it. The fact that you have all these experienced guys trying to teach you something right now, should show you that the community is more than happy to have you as a member.

It wasn't two days ago that you posted incorrect info about the availability of a 350x rod, so I'm not sure if you NEVER post on the big x's.....that thread, like many others ended up in a mess, with you blatantly calling yourself a troll in your last post. Trollololol.....remember? Rule #1 on this site is no trolling, or posting for the sole purpose of aggravating anybody, regardless of how many times they have aggravated others. If you have another witty response to this reference, I suggest you hold in it, because if you don't it will instantly prove my point.

Now its just time to listen and learn, because when you get in to the back and forth with talented guys like we have here, you better be educated on your topic, or the reputation thing will immediately come into play. But alas, the responses so far indicate that the lesson may be lost after all.....

rg97
02-01-2014, 02:09 PM
Nah DOHC no witty response from me. I'm over everything now. No grudges held. Like I've said I have made mistakes. It's a fact of life. What you pointed out was something I regret now

HairyJR
02-01-2014, 02:19 PM
Many of us read and post replies from our vast years of experience and knowledge. I admit to being old and stubborn. Just last week I posted info on a thread which I thought might help the O.P. another member commented on my post and it set me off, had I proof read my own post might have saved me from the anger and time spent typing a response. Because of my poor computer skills, typed the response in word processor and block copied wrong paragraph, no wonder it didn’t make sense and therefor the member’s response.

It was my mistake, edited post and sent that member a PM and thanked him. The positive side to all this, I gained a new friend.

"HJ" :beer

fabiodriven
02-01-2014, 03:43 PM
We all make mistakes. My problem is with how people handle being corrected.

Scootertrash
02-02-2014, 01:21 AM
How about a nice group hug.

OK! But all you guys keep your hands where I can see 'em!! :naughty: