buying a new .... wow... = not (caution rant.. but good for new guys and buying)

[sammiefish]

I just wanted to make a comment ... especially for the young guys.....
Im new to the forum but not my first time around the barn...
started on a '73 Z50 then to the '76 CR 125ME (boy did she put multiple guys in the hospital : ( ... hehehe... never me....)
then to street stuff then back in the past few years to off road again....

BEWARE... ads stating JUST REBUILT... or NEW RINGS....

any "butt head" can "rebuild" a top end or put "new rings" in a machine...
especially when they say less than X hours since rebuilt...

In my mind that = not proven... get 'er home and you may have one or two rides
then "its not my fault you blew the motor"
an ad like that detracts value... not adds value... I just click past... unless there is some
other very compelling reason to continue pursuit..

IMHO, I find more value in an old machine that may smoke but by evidence hasn't been
"monkeyed" with... I'll do the rings myself... then I know they are right... not done in the dirt of
some guy who just wants your buck driveway.... you are better off doing it yourself correctly... just find a manual..or ask here.. its not hard to do... maybe a $10 hone at the machinist then getting your rings aligned correctly.. and if you replace them yourself... you better know how to gap 'em

ALSO,
machine shop and re-assembly work is a SKILL... and sometimes worth paying for...
you should bring your work dis-assembed and do as much of the
re-assembly as possible... BUT... young guys... take heed... ..
paying for re-assembly might save you some time and $ in the
long run... trust me... after 2 piston skirts raining down in my crank
on my old CR its worth just measuring and doing it right...
30 years later we still talk about the rooster tails behind the 125me.....
(noone dared get too close.. they'd get the mud teeth...)

old guys seem to have the sense as to what they can and cant (or mostly want to) do... like me...

that CLEAN re-assembly might cost you 30 - 40... and if you get the kind of shop I work with
they will be happy to let you watch... (and learn).. .BUT... word to the wise... DONT SPEAK while watching work...
that is a good way to NOT BE ALLOWED BACK... watch and learn...

Sorry, just a thought...

[Scratt]

I agree with you unless the bike is really clean and you can obviously tell he put the time and effort into it. If the bike is all covered in mud and dirt and, well looks like crap, and he says he has like 2 hours on rebuild i would be weary. But a bike that is all clean, shined up, and looks like it was taken care of i wouldn't be worried on the rebuild. But of course it goes down to your best judgment buying the bike as well.

[sammiefish]

ahhhh, but clean and shiny is probably one of the biggest tip offs... all i can say
is caution.....

ALL MY bikes are muddy and dirty... then, of course then i wouldnt be selling them...
but then again.. if i was selling... i wouldnt sell junk (unless stated)... and I would NEVER sell a few hour rebuild...
its a recipe for disaster and a good way to get a bad name... unless of course you offer a WARRANTY
good luck with that.

that was my point.... there are people out there that will tell you GREAT THINGS but its really a turd....

thats all I meant... watch out for the guy that is advertising "NEWLY REBUILT" and the like...
ive seen it time and time again.. its junk.. .but the kid looking at it next to me (not with me) thinks
its great... then learn it was indeed junk... sad...

SO.... BE...CAUTIOUS...

(the following modified)
my advice is that there are so many out there... dont necessarily get one that was rebuilt... you could get one that still has the
original bore and no one has been inside the motor... and do it yourself... you will be way happier knowing it's done correctly...

[just ben]

so don'y buy a dirty trike or a clean one?and don't buy one that has recently rebuilt because nobody knows how to rebuild an engine?if the baddest bike you have come acrossed is a 76 cr 125,you have alot of room to grow yet.

[sammiefish]

so don'y buy a dirty trike or a clean one?and don't buy one that has recently rebuilt because nobody knows how to rebuild an engine?if the baddest bike you have come acrossed is a 76 cr 125,you have alot of room to grow yet.

first of all, thank you for the personal attack... you're great!!! what a great place this is to talk about stuff.

NO just ben,
apparently you dont understand what i was saying...

the lesson i learned when i bought the used up racer (aside from the many bikes, mustangs, corvettes, mini vans, SUV's, and tractors)
the guy was honest and I did the work myself..... not all sellers are like this

i guess you dont know much about cc and the old Elsinore.....
have you ever ridden an Elsinore...? it does not sound like it with the tone of your dis-respect

the point i was making was young guys.....,(without $) like me as a kid (maybe you assume kids are independently funded)
they would do better to buy a smoker that wasn't molested than one that was fixed up by some monkey
(are you offended by the fact that monkeys put new rings in stuff to cover up crap and screw the buyer only to give a VERY short term fix?)
really because they dont have even the slightest bit of skill necessary to swap rings? BTW, any monkey can swap rings, but will they last?

dirty or clean bike, doesnt necessarily matter... but some kids are wooed by liars... ive got a 17 year old
LOOK PAST THE INITIAL appearance... shiny fenders make the inexperienced forget the important things

other guys rebuild and do a great job.... but usually want $ for their work... and that is very worth
while and honest. That falls under the statement I made about "unless there is some
other very compelling reason to continue pursuit.." and results in a higher price tag.

I thought I was giving some good advice about getting an old machine and fixing it up yourself... you apparently took
offense... sorry for that... no offense intended...

thanks for the heads up ...

I guess we all need
"room to grow"

[just ben]

I didn't take offense at all,or try to "attack you". I was just trying to figure out what the hell you were saying.and I'm still scratching my head

[sammiefish]

I didn't take offense at all,or try to "attack you". I was just trying to figure out what the hell you were saying.and I'm still scratching my head

still, you really cant figure out what the post was about...???
I was thinking about being young and without money and wanting a bike .....

it is about the woo of the seller ..... don't be fooled.....
realize you can do work to an old machine
it will cost you less
especially if you are young and on a limited budget

if someone slaps rings in an old machine and markets it as so,
you should beware
it may not save you any money, and likely cost you more in the
near future, UNLESS you have reason to believe it is a good rebuild

most people i meet thru craigslist i wouldnt trust to clean my garage let alone
swap my rings

scratch, scratch, ahhhhhh, I'm growing...

[sammiefish]

I didn't take offense at all,or try to "attack you". I was just trying to figure out what the hell you were saying.and I'm still scratching my head

well, I'm sorry, you didn't necessarily attack me personally (although I take your statement personally), you wrote:

"if the baddest bike you have come acrossed is a 76 cr 125,you have alot of room to grow yet."

you certainly did insult the 76 CR 125ME Elsinore..... therefore.....

I would suggest you no longer use the word "acrossed" as it is not a word in the English language.
Try something like instead of "come acrossed", try "encountered"

You did not address weather you had ever ridden an Elsinore or not...
It is obvious to me you have not.
Anyone, I know, who has actually ridden the Elsinore (even the 125)
does not speak as you did (without regard to brand loyalty).

Just as an aside, I, as others, ask that you
capitalize the "CR" when you refer to the Honda 2-stroke series of MX bikes....
unless you deliberately intend dis-respect.

thank you for your support....
bartles and james

as far as Honda going CRX..... blah... I say... BLAH!!! THANKS CALIFORNIA!... NOT!!!

[zsoccerdude17]

Well......this has been interesting. Good to see other peoples views on stuff.

[M.Pargiello]

I think I would take more time planning my grammatical spew before correcting someone else.. And most are very familiar with Elsinore's, but they aren't close to the baddest thing around. Maybe in '76. But thats my opinion. I would love to own one though

[shovelryder]

Hmmmm........That was kind of an odd post.I like to believe I can hear,and really listen to a motor........They will surely talk,IF you listen.....Lol....Then again I've been working on vintage harleys most of my life to.I wont buy a grungy dirty anything.....That shows how ya care for yer stuff. Yup, mine get nasty, but when I get home from a fun trip the fenders come off,hit them with the washer and wipe them down with wd40.......Just kinda like my stuff as clean as possible.And I think you can make conversation and see what a person really knows.....Is the work area clean and organized? is it a craphole?......Just something to think about.

[atc300r]

I also listen to the motor. Test ride is always good. I have a couple cousins that get sucked in by the "it ran yesturday" and the one above thinking that new rings mean rebuilt. I bought and engine from ebay a couple years ago and the piston was installed backwards ran less than a minute and the ring caught the port and it was done. I had a thought in the back of my head to check it to see if it was done right . But I fgured I would trust the seller. In the Ebay posting it said it had a new topend. Wich it did. I put another topend on it and found out it needed crank bearings and seal. I ended up puttting a 300r topend on it after replacing bearings seals and gaskets.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well, "buyer beware" is certainly the order of the day. But lets face it, all of the machines we here on 3WW are interested in are at least 26 years old. Finding truly nice from tip to tern specimens is rare to say the least.

There are people other than us that do in fact know how to do a proper rebuild, and then there are people who haven't the first clue. You have to look at the mcahine as a whole. If it has been abused and you see alot of cobbled together crap that will tell you alot.

My brother in law (Beadle350x) and I were just through this. He picked up a very solid Tri-Z a couple months back. Due to limitations at the sellers property I was not able to try all gears under power, could only get to 3rd. It was "rebuilt" by the previous owner to the person we bought it from. Turns out, that person probably wans't a very good wrench turner or was trying to turn it over quickly. 4th gear was missing, the sealant between the cases wasn't done properly and leaked, and the cylinder was on a worn/pitted last bore. Yes, we had to put more work and $$$ into it, but thanks to Mosh and 03orangeshee we got her all fixed up and running like it should.

We had looked at another Tri-Z that was posted on CL back in April. That thing was a cobbled up MESS! One cylinder stud was missing all together, another cyl stud looked like someone jammed a self tapping lag bolt into it, first gear was present when the engine was off but absolutely gone when the engine was running and there were alot of other tell-tale signs that this was not the trike to buy.. Seller was asking 1200 or best offer.. I advised Eric that if he REALLY had to have it that I wouldn't be comfortable seeing him spend more that 300 on it.. It was that bad. Seller would take no less that 1000. Oh yeah, it was advertised as "freshly rebuilt from theclutch to the top end"...

Fast forward about 3 or 4 months and I see a thread here by a brand new member saying he bought a Tri-Z that sounded an aweful lot like that turd we looked at. Sure enough, he had. As far as I know he is still working on making it right....

I see what you are trying to say Sammie, but there IS such a thing as a machine that has been rebuilt right. My 350r has been rebuilt and I'm sure if I wanted to sell it there are alot of people that would love to buy it and it would serve them well for a long time to come if they know how to mantain it properly. Plus look at all the properly rebuilt/restored machines right here on 3ww... I do all my own work with the exception of the machine work, ie cylinder boring, case machining, porting etc etc... Only because I don't have the machines/training required to do work like that. If I did, I would do it all myself but I don't have that kind of money to buy the machinery! LOL!

[sammiefish]

Hmmmm........That was kind of an odd post.I like to believe I can hear,and really listen to a motor........They will surely talk,IF you listen.....Lol....Then again I've been working on vintage harleys most of my life to.I wont buy a grungy dirty anything.....That shows how ya care for yer stuff. Yup, mine get nasty, but when I get home from a fun trip the fenders come off,hit them with the washer and wipe them down with wd40.......Just kinda like my stuff as clean as possible.And I think you can make conversation and see what a person really knows.....Is the work area clean and organized? is it a craphole?......Just something to think about.

very true...

[sammiefish]

Well, "buyer beware" is certainly the order of the day. ...............

There are people other than us that do in fact know how to do a proper rebuild, and then there are people who haven't the first clue. You have to look at the mcahine as a whole. If it has been abused and you see alot of cobbled together crap that will tell you alot. ..............

Absolutely..... buyer beware
there are people who do things right... and picking up a good rebuilt is awesome...

Ive looked around alot in the last couple months on CL and MOST of what I saw involved an owner that
had crap for brains and either blatantly lied ... or had no idea what they were saying but said it anyway...

I guess like you said BUYER BEWARE is what I was really trying to say....

BTW, as someone pointed out to me, I was having a "unique stream of consciousness" last night...
sorry for the rant...

[RIDE-RED 250r]

LOL! No problem Sammie, I'm pretty sure we've all been there at one time or another.. :beer