I finally snapped. What would you do?

[briano]

Let me start out saying that I have been more than patient with my butthole neighbor and his German Shepard. His dog comes into our yard on a quite regular basis, I don't want him here because he is aggressive and we have a 1 year old daughter.

Well I finally had enough a few weeks ago. I have asked the druggy neighbor nicely, I have asked him not so nicely, I have warned him no so nicely, to keep his dog either on a leash or out of my yard. I have told him at least 50 times that I don't want his dog around because of our daughter. I have reported it to the police who refuse to help, so I took matters into my own hands.

A few weeks ago I was just about to take my daughter outside to play when here comes the dog, I'm tired of talking to the owner and the cops, so I get the bb gun out and give it 2 pumps and give the dog a stinger in the rump. I know I know, I shouldn't have done it but I'm sick of this crap. The dog was far enough away that there is no possible way the bb broke the skin. The dog let out a little yelp and went home. The druggy neighbor was outside and starts screaming and calls the cops, what do you know now they come.

The state trooper pulls up in the neighbors yard and the dog goes after him, barking and snarling, the trooper had to get back in his car till the dog was put in the house. After getting his info he comes over to my house and proceeds to lay into me about how I am so wrong with what I've done. He says I need to take pictures and press trespassing charges. I said there is no way in hell that I'm going to stand there and take pics of a dog biting me, my fiancé, our daughter or our dog. I told him that they need to do something about this dog coming over here all the time, he says there isn't much they can do without catching him in my yard.

Now the question? What would you do? I didn't shoot the dog to hurt it, it's just a weak bb gun shot, a shock collar is worse than that. In Michigan I have the right to protect my family and animals from danger, and I do have a CPL and always carry. I really don't want it to come down to shooting the dog, but if I have to I will. The cops really don't want to do anything but have me take pics, sorry but this dog is too aggressive for me to be taking pics. The neighbor will not tie him up, the cops suggested that he gets an invisible fence but that will not happen, the dead beet has no job. So what are the options here?

[WisconsinJohn]

That's a damned if you do damned if you don't. Now that he has called the cops on you seems like your on the wrong end now. I suggest you keep a real gun loaded in case ol druggy gets crazy. Put up some temporary snow or orange fence and have another chat with him about it. Good luck!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I'm kind of right there with ya in not wanting to really shoot the dog persay, but if it came to protecting your little one, your wife or yourself on YOUR OWN PROPERTY I wouldn't think twice.

Is the dog licensed?

Does your town/village have a leash law??

You CERTAINLY do not have to be a prisoner in your own house in fear of venturing out into your own yard.

I would try to get pics of the dog on your property any way you can, even from inside your house if you must. Try to get lankmarks in the pic so it cannot be disputed that the animal was in fact on your property or not.

Do you have any other non-scumbag neighbors in the area experiencing the same issue or who could bear witness to your side of the story??

You have to play the BS game to some level, but be prepared to protect yourself and your family if you must. Keep that pistol on you at all times untill the problem is solved one way or another.

Not sure if it would be better to warn the owner of the dog that you will use lethal force if necessary to protect your family or if that could be construed as pre-meditated if you did happen to follow through on the action....

And I am absolutely no an anti-police type person, but that trooper has some nerve giving you crap for discharging a BB gun on your own property wether it was at the dog or not. Miscarriage of enforcement if you ask me.

I feel for you bud. I'm not an animal hater by any means, but I have NO USE WHATSOEVER for a viscious dog, especially if it is on YOUR property and giving you problems. I was bitten twice by my aunts german shepard when I was 4 and 6 years old. I'm sorry, but any dog that sees a small child as any type of threat and attacks should be put down...Some may disagree with me on that, but that's how it is IMHO. NEVER put an animals life over that of a human child.

[Flyingw]

Dont wait till the dog attacks your Daughter before something gets done. Any animal control out there? I'm with John, keep a loaded weapon within hands reach. Document everything, when the dog comes in to your yard. date, time etc. This will show a pattern in the event somebody would want to know.

[Scootertrash]

Does the dog get close enough to use pepper spray?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Does the dog get close enough to use pepper spray?

Or bear spray! ... pepper spray on steroids.

Good idea Scooter... just as effective as using a firearm without killing the dog...

[Tri-Z 250]

M80 very useful and fun to discharge even when the dogs not around. Not to hurt the dog...just a way to make it gun shy and affaird of your yard. Then again you may have more laws against fireworks than personal property rights in your area. Good luck with the camera work as it the owners lack of teaching his dog like most responsible dog lovers do.

[rjs89ia]

Aslong as the dog is dead when you shoot it they can't really do anything about it, atleast its that way here in Arizona. It's not like they can prove whether or not it was attacking you but I'd suggest being in a standoff with it to justify killing it. I wouldn't be worried about the law man either you might get some dirty looks from them and a slap on the hand but its not like you killed a person. I'd be more worried about the crackhead neighbor not about him sueing but more like trying to do you harm for killing his dog.

[briano]

There is no animal control here, we are kind of in a rural area, not out in the sticks but not in town either. I have told the neighbor that there will be lethal force involved if his dog so much as growls at my daughter. I'm just sick of telling him to keep the dog out of my yard, if he don't want to teach his dog then I will. Maybe I should get one of those cattle shocking sticks, a few zaps with that should do wonders. And yes I am armed at all times, I have been carrying everyday for about the last 6 months, even to work. You never know where there are going to be crazies these days. Like I said I don't want to but if need be there will be shots fired, I will not let my family or my dog be hurt.

[El Camexican]

Are you allowed to store Rat Treat in raw hamburger on your propery? Keep your kid and dog in for a day and let it feast well. It's not a pretty death, but if the owner and cops won't do what's right so be it.

[DasUberKraut]

How about one of those electronic devices that emits a sound dogs can hear that they hate and stay away from?

[El Camexican]

How about one of those electronic devices that emits a sound dogs can hear that they hate and stay away from?

Don't work well. I have two and my pealess whistle works better. Besides, he has a dog.

[DasUberKraut]

Oh crap. I forgot about his dog.
I'll go back to the drawing board and keep plunging away.

[jb2wheels]

How about one of those electronic devices that emits a sound dogs can hear that they hate and stay away from?

Worthless. Save your money for BBs

[ebaccm26]

I don't remember if it was here or on another forum but someone had a very similar problem. They also used a low powered bb gun to deter the dog and if I recall after several times shooting the dog when it came in his yard the dog got the point and started staying away.

[Scootertrash]

Or bear spray! ... pepper spray on steroids.

Good idea Scooter... just as effective as using a firearm without killing the dog...

A couple of times would probably suffice in keeping the dog off of the property with no long term harm to the dog.

The problem with the solutions to these issues is that most states have laws regarding the killing of someone else's pet(s), so the solutions to the problem gets limited.

Foremost, let me state that I am against killing anyones pet because the owner can't or won't control their animal. there are other options.

First, the owner is the issue not the dog The dog knows no better and the owner is responsible for the behavior and training of the dog. All a person can do is to try to train the dog to not come on their property in a non lethal fashion

In briano's case the law knows that he has issues with the neighbors dog, and now the law knows he shot the dog with a BB gun. If the dog ends up dead and the neighbor hears or sees it happen, or finds the dog dead (see what I did there?) Mr briano could be in deep doodoo since he will be the first suspect.
My recommendation would be pepper spray and/or the BB gun, whichever is most convenient at the time. Don't use the BB gun if the owner is outside or if there is any chance he is outside.

A paintball gun would be another option, or file a complaint directly with the city. Call them and see if they have a leash law.

[Scootertrash]

M80 very useful and fun to discharge even when the dogs not around. Not to hurt the dog...just a way to make it gun shy and affaird of your yard. Then again you may have more laws against fireworks than personal property rights in your area. Good luck with the camera work as it the owners lack of teaching his dog like most responsible dog lovers do.

Just an FYI: Real "M80's" are against the law in the entire U.S., even if your state sells fireworks. If you bought the M80's from the fireworks store they are not real M80's, they label them like that to get people to believe they are. The older members here who remember the older M80's, Cherry Bombs and Silver Salutes know what I'm talking about.

Federal law restricts the amount of explosive powder in fireworks available to the public. Also, M80's are not made with a bunch of gunpowder packed into a paper tube. ;)

[tri again]

Critter cams are under 50 bucks these days.
Night vision pix without flash and they even date time stamp themselves.

With any impending 'legal' issues, documentation is a deal winner.

I think it would be funny if the dog went home covered in pepper spray and ran all over the guys house but that's just a flashback to when I was 12.

The owner could simply be nucking futts and cause years of trouble and lawsuits.

I usually just go talk to the cops about stuff at their office and see what they say.


As an example, I asked the cops why they didn't bust a KNOWN methdealer.
They said, unless THEY witness something they need a citizen to file a complaint. and no one is crazy enough to file a complaint against an unpredictable nutcase.

The cop said he just parks in front of the guys house and eats his lunch but not much else he can do.

Good luck

Maybe the dog will run away to a farm somewhere but then the idiot would probably get a pitbull.

Safe to assume he's ka razy.

Again, good luck and be careful.

[El Camexican]

Growing up we had a next-door neighbor with two German Shepherds that roamed freely and terrorized the neighborhood. In two years they had killed three of my cats (all in our yard) and ripped one right out of my arms when I was 9 years old and killed it 5 feet from me. They killed a poodle in its yard and ripped the stomach open of a pregnant collie as we watched helpless to do anything. Then one day the eldest Shepard killed a forth cat while my Dad was working outside. As it was tearing up the cat my Dad picked up my Rusty Staub Little League bat and proceeded to separate the dog’s spine from its hips. The owner and his wife came over running over screaming and yelling about suing and my Dad calmly looked at the bat still in his hand and then back at the owner and said “You know, I think there are still a few good swings left in this thing”. A week later the neighbor built a fence to hold in the remaining dog and we got a new cat. End of our problem. I hope you can solve yours with a little less drama.

[swampthang]

I'll start out by saying I'm an animal lover I have had pets that I think the world of, With that being said If an agressive animal comes into my yard and and I have reason to believe it will or has tryed to do harm to me, my property, or family im going to smoke that animal, someone elses pet or not. I'm not talking about someones puppy comes into my yard and pees on my tires but a full on wild snarling gonna rip you a new one kind of animal.

Sometimes I think that the world becoming to PC is going to finish ruining it. Seems like when you tryed to get help form the authorites no one was listening now there on the other guys side. Good luck I hope yor family stays safe and you can work something out with your neighbor.

[atctim]

your best interests would be to follow the police's advice and get pictures. If the dog is in your yard all the time as you say, snap pictures everyday for a few days, then go back through the police.

[El Camexican]

Maybe all you need is a pet skunk?:twisted:

[briano]

My buddy had a great idea, get a mean azz pit bull and let it loose when the dog comes over. Let the dogs have it out and then deny owning the pit bull, problem solved. The neighbor wants us to put up a fence, I told him its his problem not mine if his dog won't stay in his yard, I told him I carry a lead fence, one on my hip and the other in my pocket.

I could get a big live trap and catch the dog then bring it to the humane society, then the idiot will have to pay to get his dog back.

[DasUberKraut]

The only problem with the pit bull is if you are found out. Most states frown upon using an animal as a weapon. And you could be in even more trouble than the neighbor.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Scooter: I do agree it's not cool to kill someone's pet. HOWEVER, if someone's pet is trespassing on your porperty and threatening to do harm then the property owner does have the right to defend one's self and/or children. And yes, the pet owner is ultimately to blame. It's unfortunate the animal may sometimes pay with it's life for the stupidity of it's owner, but in the grand scheme I would much rather dispose of a viscious dog than find it attacking my child.

Believe it or not, here in upstate NY, anyone who has any kind of livestock has the lawful right to shoot any stray dogs founs harrassing his animals. That is straight from law enforcement when my pareants' horse and 25 yr old pony were harrassed to such a degree by stray dogs they jumped our fence. LE told us if the dogs were harrassing our livestock we are within our rights to shoot the dogs.

Obviously, a solution that doesn't end with killing the dog is best, but ultimately Briano does in fact have the right of security on his own property.

Bottom line: bad neighbors SUCK!

[Dirtcrasher]

No way to fence him I take it?

My brother has a 18 month old daughter, she tripped and hit her head on 2 pieces of furniture. He burnt ALL has "danger" furniture. Thats how protective he is and I guess it means we are both nuts :lol:

If you shouldn't shoot it, take it for a ride and drop it off at a shelter.

The dog is not trained and obviously he could care less. I'd train him, toss him on the next train; Your neighbor is a complete asshat...........

[briano]

I'd like to wack the neighbor out and tie him to the bottom of a semi trailer and let him wake up about 2000 miles away, that would be sweet. The only problem with that is one of you guys here might end up with this prick.

Dirtcrasher, no there is no real good way to fence him out. All I want is for him to tie his dog up when he is outside then the problem would be solved. I have been read the riot act already for the bb gun shooting so that's out of the question again. Maybe the pepper spray would be a good idea, a few times getting sprayed should probably teach the dog to stay home. Then if the owner comes over to confront me about it I can spray him too.

[Dirtcrasher]

You,ll get charged with something if you pepper spray him or BB gun the dog. It's a crappy situation; You want to have peace and this clown is pushing you to the limit. I feel bad for you and the dog that has you pissed. I didn't read the whole thread but is Animal Control any help?? Leash law in your area??

See, this where I would snap and kill them both; I struggle sometimes thinking of what to do if someone pushes my buttons. The only reason I don't do it is I think of my family and losing my animals. But I still think about it!! :naughty:

[briano]

Yeah I'd rather put a bullet in the owner than the dog, nobody would care but the judge. I'm the only one on the street with the balls to stand up to this bozo, we just moved here a year ago and since we moved in he's not the king anymore. He has to behave because he knows I won't put up with his crap.

[jays375]

Going through the same basically and it isn't going well.The dog enforcement agency isn't much help either.They wake me up at all hours of night.One morning the two dogs had mine pinned going after it.My poor dig isn't very big and is 13 years old.If I had a gun that morning it would have been taken care of.Just turned in my second complaint with pics.Every complaint the fine increases.One officer has been very helpful.Head officer is the problem.Just another case the scum of the earth wins.

[rjs89ia]

buy some tannerite and use a highpower rifle, if the percussion from that thing doesnt keep him from coming in your yard then build a live trap and catch him and take his trail pro to the pound if the dude doesnt have the money to get his dog out of the pound then he'll be put to sleep problem solved.

[jays375]

I keep forgetting to pick some of that up.

[Jon Boy]

damn there's a lot of bad advice being given in this thread, but some good advice in here too. common sense should tell you what is the right or wrong thing to do. do you have any kind of ordinances? leash law or noise ordinance? when we were having trouble with our neighbors dogs (3Rots, 2Pits and a German Shepard) we knew they were letting them out loose on purpose and even watched their kids unhook the dogs before trying to sick them on other kids passing by, don't even get me on how the kids would beat the dog with their leashes when the dogs wouldn't do what they wanted or when it was actually the kids fault :mad:. the owner (old Mr. 125 Thief, unsuprising isn't it? :lol: ) finally made the mistake of letting a dog out one night while i was outside. standing under my carport having a smoke and turning around to have a dog sneaking up on me (never heard a thing till i turned around) and to find a growling dog 5-10ft behind me. i was scared sheetless for sure, but i'm not about to back down. this was my property damn it not the dogs. i threw a few rocks from the drive at him and he ran just enough so i could get to my door. called the police and few mins later the owner was getting ticketed for having a "Dog At Large" citation. they also have managed to rack up a few "Barking Dog" tickets for disturbing the peace. luckly they eventually moved because the dog owners father got tired of not getting his rent and then saw how much they had trashed the place so he kicked his own son out. i think it's very funny that the police has followed them around town from neighborhood to neighborhood for years, because these people just have to stir things up one way or another.

now to me if someone is letting thier dog run loose (even in the country, but not as much) i see it as they don't really care for their pet as much as they say and think. like yeah, they care for their pet so much they're willing to let it run out in street and possibly get hit or possibly attack some little kid or older person then it would have to be put down? and you better believe they don't get mad at themselves very often for this crap, no they look for someone else to blame it on.
small example i guess: last year a girl was uptown with her new little puppy (unleashed) now the pup ended up getting hit by a car and died. the girl tried to get the police to do something to the driver, but after they heard the situation she was the one that ended up with a ticket for not having it leashed. sad and kinda screwy i know, but that's the way things work.

IMO, just do what the police advised and always keep a sharp eye out when in your yard. hopefully nothing will have to happen first to get things done. if you truly feel that your life or your family is in any real danger (not just startled or scared) then i don't see where they could side with the neighbor. i feel for ya since your in a touchy situation and frankly what you've done doesn't exactly help you. document whatever and anything you can so if needed you will have proof that it's a habitual habit (i think i said that right?). they don't have to come out to your place to fill out a report unless you want, but do let the police know when things happen just to keep them informed. this doesn't mean call them on every little thing, but don't just let it slide no matter how little it may seem.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

^^^

Yes, make yourself a nuisance to the police, but make sure every time you call you have a legitimate complaint and if possible, evidence to back it up. You might just get them to actually do something about it by making them get sick of handling your complaints...

[Jon Boy]

not exactly what i meant, but if it works. :lol: :beer

[El Camexican]

Sorry Jon Boy (and anyone else I might have offended) but maybe we are looking at this from different perspectives. My interpretation is that it could potentially lead to his kid looking like one of the kids below, not just as an issue of the dog over-fertilizing his lawn. I guess only he knows how intimidating the dog is, but I for one would prefer to be judged by 12 rather than carried by 6 when it comes to these matters.

http://northwalesandchestercwu.org/Letters%20To%20branch/Dogs1.htm

[hondawasaki]

I would agree on the police compliance, but I'd be damned if I would be a prisoner in my own house because of a dog. There is all kind of options, but the documentation, photo trail is the best.

My dad built a dog trap when I was a kid, looked just like the small animal traps you see at home depot except bigger. It was extremely effective, he was catching one a week for a while, then it slowed down to nothing. He would call the animal control when he had one, and they would come get it. Not sure if your handy enough to build one, but it would be kind of cool to trap that sucker week after week and wait for the neighbor to come looking.

[Jon Boy]

Sorry Jon Boy (and anyone else I might have offended)
ya didn't offend me. just meant "Yes, make yourself a nuisance to the police" isn't exactly the way i'd word it, but it is what i'm getting at. :beer

[atc300r]

I have delt with this kind of stuff years ago. I live in the Village ,the house next to me is a side x side appartments. The one scumbag that lived there had a huge,mean Dalmation this one looked to be on steroids. Oneday (before I put up my fence) I was in my garage working on one of my 250rs and I heard him tie the dog out next thing I know I hear something move I turn (I was in a kneeling position)and I was face to face with this dog snarling ,growling ,drooling I had a hammer in my hand I thought Im going to kill this dog. I heard the neighbor say Sparky get over here the dog retreated. I told the guy to shorten up the lead .He says OH he wont hurt you. I said shorten the lead or your going to find a dead dog on the end of it.Im also a dog lover I have a Dachshund hes my buddy. But my thought on the neighbors dog was its him or me It was going to be me.My boys where little then aswell .

[beets442]

Get a bigger dog!http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/beets442/untitled.png

[Dirtcrasher]

Sorry Jon Boy (and anyone else I might have offended) but maybe we are looking at this from different perspectives. My interpretation is that it could potentially lead to his kid looking like one of the kids below, not just as an issue of the dog over-fertilizing his lawn. I guess only he knows how intimidating the dog is, but I for one would prefer to be judged by 12 rather than carried by 6 when it comes to these matters.

http://northwalesandchestercwu.org/Letters%20To%20branch/Dogs1.htm

Great link!! I know that if that happened to my brothers daughter; He would kill the owner and the dog. Maybe some people feel thats ignorant but just as ignorant as the neighbor.

That link may open a few minds.

How about a paintball gun?? Neighbor doesn't give a crap about you so touche !! He'll get the hint.

Otherwise take a few videos for the police, there job is to "protect and serve"!!

[whyzee]

My daughter was bitten very very badly by our own dog when she was 4. Right in the face and she looked worse than the girl did in that picture. 3 surgeries later and the scars are tolerable but it nearly makes me cry when i see them when she is standing in the right light.
I know how you guys are feeling , on both sides , but call the dog warden, file a formal complaint.
The dog warden will be your best friend. They will solve the problem.

if the dog comes onto your property and you feel threatened, shoot it but be prepared for alot of backlash, and ALOT of sleepless nights esp. if your neighbor is unstable and using drugs.
I do not agree with poisoning the dog at all.
Call the dog warden tomorrow. They do not need pictures. They just need a verbal complaint. If it happens twice, then they show up with a state trooper and start issuing fines. That usually does trick.

If you prefer to deal with the matter yourself, then i would definitely use the pepper spray as suggested!

[dustrunner]

in my town the cops dont give a damb either.... but if i ride my trike up the side of the road in 10 minuites 3 cop cars will right their.. wtf.. it's not the dog's fault... it's his idiot oners... but i agree keep shooting the dog and even the owner in the azz till they get the piont..... good luck......

[RIDE-RED 250r]

ya didn't offend me. just meant "Yes, make yourself a nuisance to the police" isn't exactly the way i'd word it, but it is what i'm getting at. :beer

I could have worded that better myself.... Lets say he should make himself a legitimate nuisance... ;)

[atc350xer]

Sorry Jon Boy (and anyone else I might have offended) but maybe we are looking at this from different perspectives. My interpretation is that it could potentially lead to his kid looking like one of the kids below, not just as an issue of the dog over-fertilizing his lawn. I guess only he knows how intimidating the dog is, but I for one would prefer to be judged by 12 rather than carried by 6 when it comes to these matters.

http://northwalesandchestercwu.org/Letters%20To%20branch/Dogs1.htm That happened to me when I was 8 or 9... at a family friend's house, the dog was eating, I tried to pet him, and he tore my face open. I went to the hospital, the dog went out to the back 40 for a lead injection. That's the way it was done back in the day... I love animals, but an unprovoked attack needs to be dealt with strongly. Some of you are going to say I provoked it by going near it's food... my dog is so gentle, I can take a steak out of her mouth, it's all in how they were raised.

[atc350xer]

Get a bigger dog!http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/beets442/untitled.png
Ummm, pretty sure that's a horse

[rjs89ia]

true stuff there atc350xer my dad did that to one of our dogs long ago when it attacked one of the other dogs, i went to school and there was no dog when i got home. i like my pets but i wouldnt think twice about putting a bullet in one if they pulled some trail pro on me or anyone. that goes for any animal yea they all have the right to live but its all limited in my eyes you trail pro up and its to the gallows with ya. back to the point if the animals on my property terrorizing me then why couldnt i neutralize it, its in my yard and ive got a right to protect myself.

[tri again]

Scooter: I do agree it's not cool to kill someone's pet. HOWEVER, if someone's pet is trespassing on your porperty and threatening to do harm then the property owner does have the right to defend one's self and/or children. And yes, the pet owner is ultimately to blame. It's unfortunate the animal may sometimes pay with it's life for the stupidity of it's owner, but in the grand scheme I would much rather dispose of a viscious dog than find it attacking my child.

Believe it or not, here in upstate NY, anyone who has any kind of livestock has the lawful right to shoot any stray dogs founs harrassing his animals. That is straight from law enforcement when my pareants' horse and 25 yr old pony were harrassed to such a degree by stray dogs they jumped our fence. LE told us if the dogs were harrassing our livestock we are within our rights to shoot the dogs.

Obviously, a solution that doesn't end with killing the dog is best, but ultimately Briano does in fact have the right of security on his own property.

Bottom line: bad neighbors SUCK!

I know a guy who got some cheap chickens just for that 'livestock' reason.
Dogs were chasing his horses but he had no good evidence.
so he 'let' the dogs get a few chickens and he had an airtight case for under 10 bucks.

However, in some states, chickens may not be considered livestock.

Courts love documentation, even if handwirtten.
Critter motion cameras are getting super cheap these days and even cheaper after xmas.

I just cannot imagine how I'd feel if something bad happened while you're trying to figure out what to do.
As long as the cops know you're concerned (and wrote something down as an incident report) , IF something does happen, they may have some accountability too.
Might be a good point to check.

(also remember getting bit in the face at age 5 or 6, JUST missed my left eye but also hold no animosity and actually had a magical female shep for 17 years).

Yupp, got bit in the freakin' face, the INstant the owner walked by me with the dog and said, "oh, he won't hurt you".

[bkm]

I would advise you to get educated in what the law REALLY states as far as dealing with nuisance and aggressive animals on your property in your area. Go directly to the nearest law enforcement headquarters and ask to speak to a supervisor on duty and tell him your having neighbor problems and want the correct advise on how to handle the situation.

This solves two things.
1.) Your not pulling a trooper away from what ever the hell he was doing to come and deal with neighbor issues and who is probably already jaded because he feels this is an issue that should be solved between adults and not the Police. He's pissed because he thinks this is petty and he has better stuff to be doing and is not going to give you the service you deserve. ( some of you will say its the troopers job and I agree 100%, but lets operate in the real world here people and take my word as the gospel on this one, I'm trying to help and these are just the cold hard facts)

2.) By speaking to a supervisor he will hopefully be a little more seasoned in dealing with these issues. He is in a face to face environment on his turf and he knows there will be no report needed or pissed off people to deal with on the scene. He can advise you on the steps you need to take and the rights you have within your property. Get a business card and refer to him if the problem continues and ask for help.

Education is the key in this situation, but remember that protection of your family is first and foremost. I do not kill animals just for the sake of killing, but I'll be damned if I will let one hold me hostage in my own home or threaten my family.

As far as the advise the Trooper gave you about documentation is correct. Without it the situation becomes a he said/he said and without proof, you have nothing to go on. The game camera is going to be a valuable tool along with a video from a window if possible. Evidence is what wins cases and produces results.

[tri again]

x2 BKM.

With all due respect, not all officers know every legal detail about every situation
'we the people' can conjure up.
It's impossible.
so yes, I agree wholeheartedly, to talk with the office staff, who can look up statutes
and cases and have fingertip access to all the rules.

Heck, my last time in court, I brought the statutes for the judge to read.

as in:
-Here's is what I would like, your honor.
-Here is why I think I have a right to this decision.
and on and on.
Again, with all due respect, I'm sure the judges can't possibly know every detail of every law and statute. This stuff goes on for hundreds and hundreds and thousands of pages.

oh, and they change them periodically without telling us.

Again, I'd just hate to see things go from bad to worse.

[bkm]

x2 BKM.

With all due respect, not all officers know every legal detail about every situation
'we the people' can conjure up.
It's impossible.
so yes, I agree wholeheartedly, to talk with the office staff, who can look up statutes
and cases and have fingertip access to all the rules.

Heck, my last time in court, I brought the statutes for the judge to read.

as in:
-Here's is what I would like, your honor.
-Here is why I think I have a right to this decision.
and on and on.
Again, with all due respect, I'm sure the judges can't possibly know every detail of every law and statute. This stuff goes on for hundreds and hundreds and thousands of pages.

oh, and they change them periodically without telling us.

Again, I'd just hate to see things go from bad to worse.You are 100% correct Doc. I have been on scene of some real head scratchers and had to refer back to the statute book more than once.

The general public has the assumption that Police Officers are walking statute books and can recite the laws like Joe Friday on the movie Dragnet.

I will say this and its not an excuse on the officers part in this situation nor is it necessarily reflective of this particular event we are discussing . The victim has to be willing to sign a complaint or "press charges" in order for the criminal proceeding to begin, unless the officer witnesses the dog running at large on public (not private) property. If the dog is running at large on public land then the State or City become the victims and the Officer becomes the witness and he can interveen. If the offense is on private property the owner of said property has to become the victim and proceed with charges with the proper evidence, not hear say..

Sorry for my rant but this is an example of situation that comes around all the time with dealing with neighbor disputes:

I get a call for a loud party next door to the complainant. I contact the complaining party and ask if they are willing to sign a complaint against their neighbors for peace disturbance. They say "no" I just want it to stop. I tell the offenders of the complaint and they agree to be quite and I leave. 45 minutes later I'm back and repeat the process all over again. An hour later another call, but this time the complainant proceeds to rip me a new as$hole for what she say's is not doing my job.

I inform her that I cannot be the victim in this situation and my peace cannot be disturbed, she has to be the victim and sign a complaint. Then I can go and issue summons or effect an arrest if necessary, but she has to come to court and testify and my report will include the loud noise that was heard as I approached the suspect party. When they hear that they have to participate in the legal process the calls usually stop and people go on about there business.

The point I'm trying to make is if the Trooper showed up on scene and observed the dog in Brianos yard and Briano was willing to press charges, but the officer was not willing to do his job then there is a dereliction in duty. If there is no evidence while on scene and it is your word against his there really is no case and even if a case was presented to the prosecutor there will be no charges issued due to lack of evidence.

We all know that the Troopers aren't going to sit outside and wait for the dog to cross over so it becomes your burden to provide evidence proving your case, but be willing to go the extra mile if it ever goes to court. If it comes to a point were a hearing is established and you refuse to participate, there is no one but yourself to blame.

Good luck and if you need any advise feel free to drop me a PM.

[Mosh]

I did not take the time to read through all 4 pages of stories and suggestions so some of this advice may be repetitive.

Here is the deal. Local police authorities often will not, or do not have the power to enforce these issues.

There is IN FACT entities in your state that can help you with animal control.

http://www.maacoweb.com/

also try these guys..

http://www.aspca.org/

Any animal left to wander the streets and yards can be considered cruelty. As sad as things can be out of hand in this world, when it comes down to it, these people LOVE to go after potential cruel pet owners. A simple "altered report" of animal cruelty to his house will have this guy more than likely investigated and he should get the hint that you are using the proper channels to curb the issue and do something.

There are also various private services that are in every state that will capture animals that are a nuisance, many times charging a fee to the animal owner for the service to get their dog or animal back..
We used to have these issues also and a simple call to the state's animal control yielded a visit to the neighbors house and 1 week later they put up a invisible fence..I think you will benefit more by some web investigation, on your behalf, of your states policies and procedures, versus taking BB gun advice from a bunch of ATV enthusiast's..(No offense guys)

While hurting or trying to punish the dog for its roaming actions seems like the correct thing to do, it won't change the owner's practices, or responsibilty, and will probably make the dog MORE VIOLENT to your area where the pain is inflicted. Or even worse yet, make the drug addict neighbor become violent towards your and your family.

If all else fails, a roll of galvanized wire and an electric fence box on the length of your neighbor's property line, is very inexpensive and takes moments to install at a height where the dog crosses, it gets a jolt it won't believe. In conjunction with some bright ties on the wire, you yourself can train the animal to stay out of your yard as it will find out when it see's the ties he is going to far. Once it learns that you can take it down and sell it on CL to get your money back.

[tri again]

On a side note, we had a local neglected horse.
Some folks called the private horse rescue people who came to my house and asked how late I slept.

They said if I hear anything, not to worry about it.

and yupp, they showed up at 7 am and took the horse with the blessings of the
law.

Not a dog story but interesting.

[fabiodriven]

I think you will benefit more by some web investigation, on your behalf, of your states policies and procedures, versus taking BB gun advice from a bunch of ATV enthusiast's..(No offense guys)
.

A-fawking-men. Some of the crap coming out in this thread, for cripes sake boys...

[tri again]

A-fawking-men. Some of the crap coming out in this thread, for cripes sake boys...

sorry fab
the perils of a civilized society rearing polical correctness.

[jadleybray]

You don't really have a choice now that you've aired your dirty laundry on the world wide web. Play it by the book from here on out

[El Camexican]

You don't really have a choice now that you've aired your dirty laundry on the world wide web. Play it by the book from here on out

Good point!

[Scootertrash]

As long as the dog is dead when you shoot it they can't really do anything about it
Michigan law allows the owner of an illegally killed animal to recover coast of damages from the person responsible for the animals death. Basically the dog has to be in the act of or have caused bodily injury to people or animals. If you want clarification look up the Michigan animal laws.


I told him I carry a lead fence, one on my hip and the other in my pocket.

Briano may also want to refrain from reminding his neighbor he carries a gun (not to mention posting on the internet that you've used the fact that you carry to threaten his dog). If the neighbor tells the right (wrong?) officer this (particularly one who does not approve of conceal carry laws), this could be considered making a threat of bodily harm. You could lose your weapon AND the right to carry. It's called Concealed Carry for a reason. In military terms it's called OPSEC. Operational Security. You don't broadcast the fact that you carry a weapon, if you are carrying, or where you carry it. Not to mention the fact that carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with potentially deadly consequences on both sides of the weapon. You never disclose the fact you have a weapon unless you have to pull it. Let alone a so called druggy neighbor you have a disagreement with.



ETA: Do you actually have proof he is a druggie or are you just making generalizations?

[briano]

He is a druggy, I don't know how he's not in jail. In Michigan I can open carry a firearm almost anywhere, so having it on my side in plain view is not a threat. If that's how he wants to view it that's fine, I have it for protection.

I'm going to get a game cam and call the police every time I have a pic of the dog in my yard, eventually they will have to do something, I can press charges for trespassing for his dog coming over.

[Scootertrash]

You never said that Michigan is open carry, you posted
I told him I carry a lead fence, one on my hip and the other in my pocket.

Big difference between telling someone you have a weapon and aren't afraid to use it, and legally being able to open carry.

I would second the game cam. You'll have pics if the dog comes over even if you aren't home, so you may actually get more evidence.

Full Disclosure: Minnesota does have Conceal carry (and open carry) and I do carry a majority of the time, but CCW is a complete other thread. Just so noone thinks I'm some kind of anti-gun dweeb. ;)

[briano]

I don't have my daughter out that much this time of year, it's getting cold. So, for the next few days I will keep an eye out for tracks coming from the neighbors house since there is a bit of snow on the ground now. I haven't seen him or the dog for a couple days now. I have the perfect place picked out for a trail cam, I can get it in a tree that will be able to take a pic on the entire side of my yard that adjoins his.

In the spring I am going to have our property surveyed and put up a wire along right on the line. Maybe even electrify it for a little security.

Something has to be done by next summer so our daughter can be out in the yard with us without worrying about her getting bit by a dog.

[tri again]

Michigan law allows the owner of an illegally killed animal to recover coast of damages from the person responsible for the animals death. Basically the dog has to be in the act of or have caused bodily injury to people or animals. If you want clarification look up the Michigan animal laws.



Briano may also want to refrain from reminding his neighbor he carries a gun (not to mention posting on the internet that you've used the fact that you carry to threaten his dog). If the neighbor tells the right (wrong?) officer this (particularly one who does not approve of conceal carry laws), this could be considered making a threat of bodily harm. You could lose your weapon AND the right to carry. It's called Concealed Carry for a reason. In military terms it's called OPSEC. Operational Security. You don't broadcast the fact that you carry a weapon, if you are carrying, or where you carry it. Not to mention the fact that carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility with potentially deadly consequences on both sides of the weapon. You never disclose the fact you have a weapon unless you have to pull it. Let alone a so called druggy neighbor you have a disagreement with.



ETA: Do you actually have proof he is a druggie or are you just making generalizations?

Wise words mr scooter.
In Oregon, both open and c carry with a permit, the concepts are the same.

My gf was being stalked by some sick *&^%, even on camera at the supermkt and a local joke, there goes what's her name and there goes trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro following her.

Everyone in town knew it.
The rat Bas*&^ also threatened to put a bullet in my head.
For what reason, no one knows but at least 5 people told me about it.
Apparently they had been keeping 'secrets' for well over a year and he wanted me out of the 'way'.

So I talked to a cop in the supermarket parking lot and told the story.
He said unless someone is within striking distance and there is eminent danger, there is nothing to do, say or worry about.
..and SHE should file a stalking order, which she didn't want to do.
Nice gal, eh?
She probably had something going with him anyway being more concerned about his 'feelings' than his death threats to ME.

Verbal threats mean nothing apparently.

Now 'brandishing' is a very bad idea, and wickedly punishable.

Keep it holstered and concealed, as per the title of the concept.

[tri again]

Good point!

We DO know that all communications are being scanned for keywords, right?

[briano]

Again, I'm not brandishing. I open carry a gun in a holster, it's there for the world to see. I also carry concealed, I have my permit. I exercise my second amendment rights. In Michigan, with a concealed permit a person can open carry almost anywhere.

Anyway, I'm most likely going to do the trail cam. I don't want to shoot the dog to kill, but I will I need be.

[El Camexican]

We DO know that all communications are being scanned for keywords, right?

I don't know about that, but I'm pretty sure that if one day any of us should end up in an unfortunate situation such as that of Mr. George Zimmerman, these comments would be all over the media.

BTW, I hope your GF situation is cleared up. You typed it in the past tense so I assume you are either split up with her or he did the right thing and sucked hard on a gun barrel. I knew three people who are now dead because of stalking, its serious stuff, take care.

[ATC-Eric]

Id be alllll over a can of pepper spray as already stated. Should only take one encounter for the dog to get the idea.

[tri again]

I don't know about that, but I'm pretty sure that if one day any of us should end up in an unfortunate situation such as that of Mr. George Zimmerman, these comments would be all over the media.

BTW, I hope your GF situation is cleared up. You typed it in the past tense so I assume you are either split up with her or he did the right thing and sucked hard on a gun barrel. I knew three people who are now dead because of stalking, its serious stuff, take care.

Hey thanks man,
Not to sidetrack the dog thread but yeah, just further proof that some people just May be nutts.
No joke.

Cops (and everyone else) said to assume the worst case scenario