Honda 250ES rear end oil

[Big G]

Quick question...the manual calls for 80w gear oil in the rear ('85 ATC250ES)...would 80w90 work? I'm assuming it would, but I don't know much about oils so I just want to make sure. Also, the manual calls for a "hypoid" gear oil. What is that, and how do I know if the stuff I have is hypoid? It doesn't say anything on he container...

[Flyingw]

80/90w gear oil is just fine Brother.

What is Hypoid?

The term "hypoid" has more to do with the construction of engine gears than it does with oil. Early automotive engineering involved gears that meshed with each other straight on. When you think of gears, this flat face-to-face gear teeth approach is what we learned as kids in cartoons and marketing images of big machinery. However, automotive design soon figured out this gear approach was inefficient and also very loud when running. Thus, the "hypoid" design was invented which basically has two gears shaped like Christmas trees mesh with each other at 90 degree angles or similar.
The hypoid approach reduced gear-meshing noise and it allowed greater torque pressure for stronger drive. The design was so successful every car and vehicle today uses it as a standard transmission design. Due to the higher pressure on gears as a result, the lubrication needed has to include ingredients to provide more protection for the gears. This special gear oil is designed not to deconstruct under higher pressure.

Gear Oil in General

Gearbox oil or fluid is used in all sorts of vehicles. It provides lubrication in transmissions, wheel axle differentials and other parts of machinery. The viscosity level on gear oil is much higher than normal engine oil to make sure gears don't grind against each other. Over time, if not cleaned out and flushed, old gear oil can turn to sludge and will slow down gear spin, thus reducing engine performance. This is why transmission fluid change is recommended regularly along with engine oil changes.

Hypoid Oil Differences

Particularly for manual transmission and similar constructs, hypoid gear oil is the recommended lubricant. It's a gearbox oil, just like others, but the ingredients are different. This type of gear oil is mixed with additives designed to increase its resistance to breakdown under high temperature and mechanical pressure produced by hypoid gearboxes.

Regular Care Saves Dollars and Performance

As with all engine fluids and oil, regular maintenance and changing can extend the life of a vehicle and its performance. The most obvious benefit is lubrication; well-lubricated parts have less probability of chipping, breaking or grinding against each other under pressure. Another feature of oil is that it catches bits of dirt, metallic shavings from engine parts and other sediment. Flushing this oil fluid out regularly gets rid of all this material and exchanges it with fresh, new lubricant. Not changing the fluids will allow this sediment to build up, which then gets caught in the gears and causes breakdowns.
Some experts recommend using synthetic gearbox fluid over natural petroleum-based products. Synthetic fluids do last longer and thus get credited with more performance. However, if you think about the flushing aspect, both oils then get changed at the same time, so the benefit is discretionary to the owner.

Conclusion

Hypoid gearboxes are an advancement in engine design and efficiency, but they require special lubrication to function properly. This additive-mixed fluid, hypoid oil, is the standard for transmissions and will continue to be until gearing design is changed to something more advanced. Both motorcycles and cars use hypoid oil, but given that motorcycles use more of a straight-on gearing design, cars are the predominant users.

Read more: What Is Hypoid Gear Oil? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5729620_hypoid-gear-oil_.html#ixzz2FA39FhVt

[tri again]

I heard that hypoid or somehow related is a factor of 'slipperieness'
so the gears don't bind.
There MAY be a few different levels but not to worry.
If it says 80-90 and Hypoid, it should be fine.
It's all we can find around here too.

I put a neodymium magnet on all my drain plugs to catck metal too.

And change it frequently.
It's only 3 point 3 ounces so very cheap insurance.

As always, I'll add a stupid question.
( I rebuilt transmission for 10 years btw)

and some new cars take regular engine oil, like 10-40
for their manual transmissions. And they have integral ring and pinion gears that actually 'grind' against each other as they slip past each other compound curves....hence the need for a 'hypoid slipperiness factor'.
Never bothered to figure it out.

In retrospect, we only hear about problems if there is NO oil in them
or the oil is mixed with water.

[Big G]

Wow - thanks for the detailed explanation there guys. I appreciate that. But I still don't know if the gear oil I got is "hypoid" grade, even if it doesn't say "hypoid" on the bottle. Can a guy assume that all gear oil sold nowadays is "hypoid"? The stuff I got is Pennzoil "Gearplus" GL-5...do you think it's good to go?

[Flyingw]

Yep, good to go. See the link. Read the small print.

http://pennzoil.com/other-car-products/transmission-fluids-and-gear-oil/pennzoil-gearplus-sae-80w-90-gl-5/

[Flyingw]

Oh, and the word "Hypoid" refers to the Spiral Bevel gear configuration which is what makes up the diff in the ES/SX/TRX trikes and quads.

[Big G]

Good to know. Thanks for the help FlyingW. I often forget to do a quick search online before asking a question!

[tri again]

Oh, and the word "Hypoid" refers to the Spiral Bevel gear configuration which is what makes up the diff in the ES/SX/TRX trikes and quads.

x2
lots of confusion about what the exact definition is.
Some of the right angle power changers are called differentials but don't they usually have spider gears to alter limited slip?
the sx / es may be called a spooler.

When I ordered parts, they were called ring gear and pinion shaft.

That spiral bevel gear concept was probably to make them quieter and make backlash
easier to set?

I remember that the ones we used were a 'matched set' meaning they were cast and machined and then run through some sort of grinding compound so they would match each other.

Mismatched ones whine like a cheap radio.

Some of these mechanical designs are over 100 years old and I often think of the people who thought of this stuff in the first place.

[Flyingw]

What is important here is the wear patterns. I have mix and matched ring and pinion gears and they can whine when the wear patterns are horribly off but as long as they are shimmed correctly, then nothing else can be done. I have six trashed diffs on my bench right now and I'm hoping I can salvage at least two of them by mix matching the gears.