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chris_drover
01-02-2013, 08:55 AM
Hi, I have yet another problem that I cannot seem to fully diagnose on my own. My bike was running good with all lights except the reverse indicator working a few weeks ago. I pulled the pull cord out and only got around to fixing it yesterday. I put the new cord in the recoil and reassembled. When i turned on the key I noticed that the neutral light was not coming on. I assumed the battery is dead due to the cold weather, I got the bike started with my recoil starter, as my electric start hasn't worked since i bought it and something else more important seems to always come up before i can get to fixing that. After the bike started I still had no headlight, neutral light or tail light. All of these should work with a dead battery when started, should they not, while running on the stator? The dead battery is still in the bike, I was hoping the stator would charge it for me, but no luck. I'm assuming that the stator is good because I can start and run the bike with no problem therefore I have also eliminated the CDI from being bad. If I'm correct in assuming what i do about the stator and the CDI, what else could my problem be?

kb0nly
01-02-2013, 10:35 AM
Ok first off, the ignition system and the lighting/starting system are two totally separate systems. Check the link in my signature below and get the service manual which includes the schematic and you will see. Down in the stator you have two coils, one is the ignition (some use the term magneto, source coil, etc), the other coil is the lighting coil (aka alternator/stator), so you can have a running engine while still having problems on the other circuit because they are independent of one another.

This could be as simple as a bad ignition switch which turns on the power to the headlight switch and provides power to the dash lights as well. What i would do with the bike running is take a volt meter and check the voltage at the battery terminals. Should be around 12-14v depending on engine speed. If no then its either your regulator/rectifier is bad or even the alternator/stator coil is bad or a bad connection. If you look by the pull starter you will see a connector with two yellow wires, this is the alternator output, its AC voltage, and with a meter and the bike running you should see 10-30v AC depending on engine speed. If you have voltage at the yellow wires then your coil is ok, you just need to chase down where the voltage ends.

Its a pretty basic system to trace through. Alternator, regulator/rectifier, fuse under the seat, battery, ignition switch, headlight switch, and of course all the wiring connections up in the headlight. You said the battery is dead, i would pull out the battery and warm it up in the house and put a small charger on it, if the battery is bad/shorted it could be killing the regulator/rectifier output, although normally the fuse would blow. Check that fuse also, if that fuse is bad then the alternator cannot charge the battery. At the ignition switch, the wiring connections are accessible up in the headlight, you should have voltage input on the Red wire, and output on the Yellow/Red wire.

And to answer your other question, yes the lights will run off the alternator/stator without the battery.

I have had to fix the electrical on many many many trikes, and i can literally quote the schematics from memory.. LOL

chris_drover
01-05-2013, 06:24 PM
Thanks a lot for the info! I tried researching it but couldn't really come up with a whole lot on the lighting situation. I've looked over the wiring diagrams a few times and had a quick look at the bike and have only come across two fuses under the seat by the battery, is this all there is? I haven't had a chance to actually troubleshoot anything yet but I'm hoping that the fuse or fuses are bad. I don't really want to have to pull the crank case cover off in this cold weather...lol

kb0nly
01-05-2013, 11:00 PM
What i would do is get a voltmeter, unplug the connector with the yellow wires on the left side, put a voltmeter across those leads, negative to one, positive to the other, doesnt matter which, set the voltmeter to read AC voltage if its not an autoranging meter, and then start it up and see if you have voltage there. If you do then you won't be tearing into the motor!

If thats good then i would check the regulator/rectifier next, its on the back side of the battery box along with the starter relay. Plug the yellow wires back in at the motor then unplug the harness at the regulator/rectifier and check the yellow wires there again to make sure its not a harness problem somewhere. If you have voltage there then plug the regulator/rectifier back in and check the fuse in the red wire going to the battery if that fuse is good and you still don't have 12-15v DC at the battery then your regulator/rectifier is bad. Easy to replace, plenty of them available aftermarket.

You might want to pull that 10a fuse in the red wire to isolate the output and put the positive lead from your voltmeter on the red wire coming from the regulator/rectifier and put the negative lead to the battery negative terminal or the frame, then you know if its the fuse, fuse holder, or battery causing problems as you would just be measuring the output of the regulator/rectifier.

chris_drover
01-07-2013, 08:09 PM
Hi, I figured I would give you a little update. Last night after work I only had a few minutes so I checked the yellow wires out of the stator and had voltage between 18 and 24 volts mostly held around 20. When I got home tonight I started the bike as I always do just I keep everything moving to keep it from seizing up cause I don't get much time to ride, when I turned the key, the lights came on and when it started up the lights stayed on. I played around with the key a little bit and found kind of a "dead spot" in the ignition cylinder.:confused: I can't see anything thawing out today, like the battery, or ice in the lock cylinder because it was bitter cold all day. Thanks for the info for future reference tho! I'm going to have a look into the lock cylinder or the connections to it and see if something might be loose.

kb0nly
01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
Ahh ok, you have worn/corroded contacts in the ignition switch.

You can unplug the wires to the switch up in the headlight then remove the entire switch from the dash, it just pops into the hole of the dash use a screwdriver to press in the tabs that hold it into the panel and pop it out then take inside and sit down and take it apart, thats the easiest way. Clean it up good, some fine steel wool for the contacts and then get some dielectric grease, the same stuff you use on spark plug wire boots, and grease all the contacts and moving parts in there with it, reassemble and you should be good to go for a while. I have done that before also!

Easy fix thankfully.

chris_drover
01-07-2013, 09:42 PM
Thanks again for the help. I work 14 days on and get 7 off so when I get off again next week, I'm going to do that. I'm also going to post a few pics in a new thread. Just to show her off a little bit and to get a question about the forks answered that's been driving me crazy. I only paid 500 for her and the only thing I had to do was an oil seal, clean up and adjust the back brakes, 2 tires have slow leaks and the e-start don't work right now, but that's not a big deal for me. I'm also going to change the gear oil in the rear end soon just because I feel like I should. I think I got a pretty good deal. The bike is older than I am and still starts second or third pull in the cold.

kb0nly
01-08-2013, 12:07 AM
Ok good deal, you got some trike fixing time coming up, LOL...

As for the tires, don't slime them or some other crap like that. If your lucky you can take the tires off, or have a local shop do it, clean up the bead area on the wheels and put them back on and they will seal up. I had my rears leaking around the bead over and over, and finally i just got a couple tubes with the bolt in style valve which keeps them from pulling out, and then tossed tubes in the rears and haven't had issues since.

I can help troubleshoot the electric start when the time comes to fix that. I can tell you the most common problems is a wire breaking off in the start button switch its an easy fix with a soldering iron to reattach the wire, also the inhibitor switch which is just a small relay behind the battery box by the regulator/rectifier has been the problem on a couple of them i worked on, but its easy to bypass it. All you really need to do as a first step is to see if the starter relay gets voltage on the small terminals when pushing the start button, if not then its usually the button or that inhibitor.

Change the gear old in the rear end for sure!! Its easy to do and most of the time gets overlooked, and the next thing you know the rear end is shot. Drain it, get some gear lube and a bottle pump, commonly sold as a marine outboard bottom end pump, it looks like a hand soap pump with a hose on it that screws onto the gear lube bottle. Then after its drained leave the drain plug out and pump a few pumps in to flush out the crud till its just fresh oil coming out then put the drain in and fill it to the fill hole which is your level check.

Good old Honda's, they run forever!

chris_drover
01-09-2013, 08:30 PM
They run forever cause the people that still own them or look to own them take the time to take care of them and do the work. I love working on them, there so basic. I'm by no means a pro mechanic but with a little guidance from people like you, people like me can keep them running great. Later this summer I'm going to strip the motor and replace the timing chain, the rings and redo the head with new valves, seats and rockers cause I have a tick that's driving me crazy...lol...I know 200s tick and to have one without a tick is rare, but I'm hoping to achieve it.

bnolte89
01-28-2013, 06:51 PM
hey i have a question, i have a 84 yamaha 225dx that keeps blowing fuses every time i turn the starter switch, i think its just a basic short but how do i be sure? could there be short in my battery? i have put a new circuit relay on, a new starter solenoid, and i have taken the left side apart and checkd the magneto and the flywell, i have spark but the engine wont crank over, thank u

shadam
01-28-2013, 09:32 PM
great info guyz ...
keep it coming ...

my 85 200m is running great and now idles!
my starter motor is good but only when I jump start it.
I'll deff check the wires behind the switch 2moro.

kb0nly
01-28-2013, 11:30 PM
hey i have a question, i have a 84 yamaha 225dx that keeps blowing fuses every time i turn the starter switch, i think its just a basic short but how do i be sure? could there be short in my battery? i have put a new circuit relay on, a new starter solenoid, and i have taken the left side apart and checkd the magneto and the flywell, i have spark but the engine wont crank over, thank u

Start a new post there is a lot of Yamaha guys on here that might know common issues.