85 Big Red and cold weather starting problems? Any ideas ?

[myam]

Hi,
I own a 1985 250 ES and have trouble getting it started in cold weather. Are there any options other than the cold starting kit offered for the problem?:wondering

[Stonewall]

I use a can of ether; a little spray right on the air filter and it fires right up! :D

[Bebo]

I could be wrong but I think that's jut something you have to bear with. My 85 is in tip shape now if it get cold enough to wear a jacket I have to turn it over a while and idle with the choke for a good few minutes before it will even run right. A buddy of mine has a mint 86big red and 250sx and both of his are the same way. Does the choke work good?

[shovelryder]

I think it has a starting jet like the SX, drill it out a little.....do a search, or someone will come in with the size im sure.

[CodyRosa]

All I do for mine is put choke on, hold throttle all the way, pull it over and on the 3rd pull it almost always fires up.. just because first two times are hard to pull because everythings so cold inside. Not sure if everyones machine is like this but mine wont idle with how cold it is here.. so I hold the throttle just enough to were it sounds like it's idling about for a minute. Then i take off! =D

[tri again]

Hi,

The search key will give you tons of info.

Generally, the early 250 carbs like the Keihin QA 01
had a cold start recall which is essentially a bored out cold start jet.

I tried to remove mine and just by trying with a sheet metal screw, it widened itself to perfection.

The numbers you'll see have an "80" in it.
Not sure if it's 80 thousandths or .08mm so WAIT until someone who knows, or check the search key.

My 85 was hideous and not worth fooling with in the cold.

I don't think ether is good all the time, but could be wrong.
I'd keep a spark plug inside on the woodstove so it was HOT and
a drop or 2 of gas in the cylinder.

Sometimes, kicking it with the key OFF a few times would prime it.
Rocking the trike side to side violently to slosh gas around would help.

Yeah, it was miserable until I stumbled on the fix and now it starts
below freezing with 2 kicks.

Are you sure the carb is generally clean?
Good spark?
Does the 'choke' seem to work? as in, tries to kill it when running and warm?

Does it start Perfectly when it's warm? ( to rule out any other problem)

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[Flyingw]

The thing to know about the cold start mod is this. There were kits but they aren't available anymore. I pry the startup jet out by screwing in a #4 sheetmetal screw. The metering hole is down in the jet so screwing the sheetmetal screw in wont distort the metering hole.Then I take a large blade screwdriver with a slot cut in it so it will slip up under the head of the screw. I place the shank of another screwdriver on the jet stack to get the modified screwdriver at the right angle (about level) to pry the jet out. It works very well. I drill the startup jet with a .080mm micro drill and reinstall the jet by tapping it in with a soft hammer.

[tri again]

I got lucky once by using some of that freezing wart remover stuff to shrink the jet to get it out.

Yeah, FW, I remember your post that either had a picture or your description was really good about getting the proper leverage to Not break the carb body.

I MAY get to the autopsy on that es carb that sat outside for 5 years.
Sounds like you're almost ready for another one.

It's been wicked cold here so hard to predict tomorrow.

Oh, and thanks for the .080mm clarification.

[Jeff B]

My 110 hates the cold too. What I do is turn the petcock off and point a heatgun at the carb for a while. I keep a good couple inches away, 'cause I don't wanna burn up my only rider though. I also heat the head up a bit if it's really really cold. If this works in a Winnipeg winter, I believe it'll work anywhere. Good luck bro! :beer

[tri again]

My 110 hates the cold too. What I do is turn the petcock off and point a heatgun at the carb for a while. I keep a good couple inches away, 'cause I don't wanna burn up my only rider though. I also heat the head up a bit if it's really really cold. If this works in a Winnipeg winter, I believe it'll work anywhere. Good luck bro! :beer

Amen bro,

I forgot about that too.
A 2 dollar hair dryer from the thrift store helps like a dream.

I wonder if there's an actual right way to do this?
Dipstick heater? or some magnetic heat thing that may be a little safer?

[Jeff B]

I wonder if there's an actual right way to do this?
Dipstick heater? or some magnetic heat thing that may be a little safer? I think short of storing 'em in some fancy heated garage, we're on the cutting edge here. Maybe one of us should market like a trike brand heat-gun, or fab up a little c-cell powered carb-coat for us northern riders. If I didn't want my electric socks anymore I'd be sewing that bugger up rfn. :)

[kb0nly]

Whatever you do, DO NOT USE ETHER...

God i hate that crap, everybody thinks its the cure all for ignition and carb problems, all it does is burn up the piston and valves and ruin the top end over time. Ether is made for diesel engines to help them start, you shouldnt be using it on a gas engine. A safer and better alternative is a spray bottle with gas in it.

I find what works well on my 84 200ES and a few others that i have had to start in these northern climates is pull the plug wire off or just leave your kill switch set to off and turn the choke on and throttle wide open and turn it over 2-3 times, then close the throttle but leave the choke on about half way and flip the kill switch to on, now the engine is primed and should pop off pretty easy on the next pull.

[Worden18]

My Big Red and 185s don't like the cold, either. I've been putting a small space heater near the engine 1/2 hour or so before I want to ride it...starts right up then

[rcurtis16]

my 85 250 big red hates the frigen cold to, i had no idea there was a carb recall, i was told that the side covers with the big red stickers on them was not only there to hide the kicker and electronics, but also to keep the carb warm while driving. its minus 16 i think in newfoundland right now, to cold to me for riding, but i can never get mine going in this cold. i changed the cam in mine when i split the crank in my other motor and made it a 300, im just going to try the new aftermarket carb i bought, and hopfully next winter i dont have this problem

[rcurtis16]

someone should make some sort of carb heater thing to go on the carb and just plugs right in, and is easy to store in the glove box, i bet they would make a nice bit of money

[trike savior]

nothing wrong with ether (starting fluid) as long as it says on can it has upper cylinder lubricant in it (cheap formulas do not). careful with heating the carb cause it can make your worst nightmare of a fire come true. whoever said pull spark plug and keep inside by the fire, seriously, that doesnt help when your trying to pull thick cold fuel through a tiny pinhole in a carb jet. as many are saying the 250 sx has an enricher valve instead of choke (throttle) blade type system in the smaller and older bikes. give honda a break it was their first try at it. no offense to anyone but trying to use a screw to make the hole bigger might not be the safest fix on a $100 carb if you break it. either give it a quick hit of starting fluid or use the drill bit method. it sucks but if no one knows the proper size find a friend with a bit set, see where its at now and incrementally go up from there till you find one that works.

QUICK TIP with cold starting 250 es and sx's. do not give it any throttle when you are cold starting. i know that worked great on everything else you have ridden but these carbs have a carb slide and throttle blade that work together. by leaving the throttle closed, the throttle blade acts as a choke blade when the rest of the carb is adjusted properly.
proof of theory: when you cold start these bikes many will die out if you try to rev it right after it fires up, you have to let it idle with choke on before it can be reved.

[Elevator]

Carb on my Red is this troublemaker Keihin QA01. In cold weather, starting is very frustrating because of cold start jetting. Honda made repair kit 06161-HA8-305 of those cabs and finally I got one NOS set. I tried to find pictures of the kit assembly in all forums with no results.
So now I try to explain this case :)


This is the well known troublemaker Keihin QA01
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6229.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6229.jpg)

Biggest problem is inside of the carb, starter jet. Repair kit included new jet and this old one have to remove. Now you need
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6236.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6236.jpg)

Honda's original repair instructions
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva+2017-12-5+kello+22.32.54.png/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva+2017-12-5+kello+22.32.54.png)

https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6242.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6242.jpg)

There is old starting jet and new one
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6246.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6246.jpg)

In the hole of starting jet was some dirt. I used ultrasonic cleaner for this case.
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6245.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6245.jpg)
My wife loves my hobby. Specially she loves ultrasonic cleaner in the kitchen :)
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6239.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6239.jpg)

Now you need tiny hammer, be careful!
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6247.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6247.jpg)

Done
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6249.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6249.jpg)

For now you need to install new hoses.
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva+2017-12-5+kello+22.33.08.png/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/N%C3%A4ytt%C3%B6kuva+2017-12-5+kello+22.33.08.png)
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6252.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6252.jpg)
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6256.jpg/_bigthumb.jpg (https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/IMG_6256.jpg)

Tomorrow I will instal carb in the Red. Im sure this will help a lot with this cold start problem :)
There is more pictures of that repair
https://elevator.kuvat.fi/kuvat/BigRed/Keihin+AQ01+cold+start+set/

[Big G]

Thank you for the tutorial. One of these days I'll fix my cold start '85 250ES. Such a pain in the winter.

[hublake]

A simpler solution is to keep it in a heated shop. That is what I do in NE Michigan.

[mendoAu]

My 84 200es starts with just a flick of the starter switch in warm weather but in cold weather I've learned that even tho the starter sounds like it is kicking the engine over fast enough jumping it with a fully charged 12v. deep cycle makes all the difference. I don't ride as far or as often in cold weather and kinda lean towards the battery isn't getting a full charge combined with the cold and sitting idle for a couple days it's just a little to weak to crank fast and give a good strong spark. Yep...to cheap to get a new battery....ha! I live off the grid and don't have power after bedtime and when the generator is on I have limited power for "extras" otherwise I'd have an electric blanket over the whole bike all the time. Gotta laugh about the "heated garage" thing, I wish!!! It get's so wet/cold around here that I get mushrooms growing on my rubber boots if I leave them outside to long.
I'll add that you have to use common sense about electric things outside in wet/cold situations. Absolute that you use a waterproof tarp over that blanket. Trickle charger wouldn't hurt either.