rear driveshaft spring ATC200ES

[flatfender]

Hello first let me say this sure is a great site for pictures and ideas and a lot of really cool stuff. I was looking for something like a KDX200 when I found my 200ES. It was this site I went to for researching all about the old three wheelers and the information here led to my decision to buy. I really have a lot of fun on this old trike, thanks to you guys. But like every motorized play toy I've ever owned I just can't leave well enough alone.

I'm in the process of installing a rear swingarm and longer driveshaft. The parts are from an '84 TRX200. :naughty: The swingarm length and the matching driveshaft length will keep the u-joint and the pivot point of the swingarm set perfectly.

The unanswered question is how far up the output shaft splines to locate the u-joint. I'm thinking the long spring on the driveshaft is to keep the output shaft splines in full contact but allow the joint at the rear pinion gear to ratchet if the driveline gets bound up real tight, to prevent the driveshaft from snapping in half. Or this may not be true as its just an easy way to install the driveshaft once the driveshaft tube is in place.

I could measure the slack amount of the 200ES driveshaft and duplicate that but its a hardtail and the length might be different.

Or I could set it back the distance of the face-gears on the pinion shaft. (with about a quarter inch slack)

I kind of think I got it figured out but a little input from the collective would be nice before I weld the whole thing together.

Thanks in advance for any input and thanks again for a great website :beer

[TrickShot]

Putting a swing arm on a 200ES? This should be interesting. Good Luck.

[flatfender]

Putting a swing arm on a 200ES? This should be interesting. Good Luck. Thanks but I won't need any luck. This is going to be easy-peasy. I have the swingarm, driveshaft and rear shock from the TRX200. The swingarm fits between the 200ES frame rails, the pivot bolts are M30x1.5 thread size. I only need to cut the bottom rear frame off and weld the nuts to the frame and build a shock mount. Probably but the battery in the toolbox. Extend the 200M forks using 1 1/2" x .156" DOM tubing. Maybe split the cases and put in the lower XR100 first and second gears. Oil cooler and filter, 5 gallon fuel tank, the list goes on and it won't be the first time I'll have a $3000 sample of a $1000 machine. Cheers!

[kb0nly]

This sounds like a neat project, being a 200ES owner myself, i want to see pictures of this as it happens!

The spring keeps the drive shaft centered and in place, but i wish they would have done it differently, like snap rings to hold it in place because putting the motor back in after a rebuild is a pain to get that stiff spring to compress and let the motor line up with the mounts. I have done it a few times now.

[flatfender]

This sounds like a neat project, being a 200ES owner myself, i want to see pictures of this as it happens!

The spring keeps the drive shaft centered and in place, but i wish they would have done it differently, like snap rings to hold it in place because putting the motor back in after a rebuild is a pain to get that stiff spring to compress and let the motor line up with the mounts. I have done it a few times now.

Yeah that was a pain except when I put mine back together I did the engine first so I had to push the axle forward and install the bolts, good thing no one was around to hear my fowl mouth!

So you think I'm over thinking this just put it together with the same unsprung slack as the stock driveshaft? TIA

[flatfender]

This sounds like a neat project, being a 200ES owner myself, i want to see pictures of this as it happens!

The spring keeps the drive shaft centered and in place, but i wish they would have done it differently, like snap rings to hold it in place because putting the motor back in after a rebuild is a pain to get that stiff spring to compress and let the motor line up with the mounts. I have done it a few times now.

As far as pictures go I still have to order stuff you can't get locally when you live out in the boonies. Plus clean and paint a few things. Pictures due in four weeks.

[kb0nly]

LOL... Yeah i helped another guy do it that way to, it was a PIA to push the axle forward and line up the bolts thanks to that spring. As long as the driveshaft can't slide back far enough to drop off the motor when the new rear end drops i don't think it will be a problem, or you could pin it to the output shaft to make sure that can't come off. The spring only serves as a spacer to install it into the tube.

[flatfender]

Well I got the swingarm conversion done. I could have finished this sooner but I had to wait two weeks and two days for the M30x1.5 nuts for the swingarm pivot bolts. I was going to lengthen the forks (200M) while I was waiting and am glad I decided to wait. It seems so far to be a good rake with the rear up about 2.5 inches and the stock front height. I'm very pleased with the results so far just standing on the pegs and bouncing up and down. I could have spent a bunch more time making the welds real purdy but eventually I just wanted to get it done. This wasn't hard, it was a lot of cutting grinding and welding and that's not my trade so it was quite an undertaking. The hardest part was getting the distances correct and making jigs and fixtures so when the welding was complete the dimesions didn't change. Here's some pictures I shot today. I have to hook up and tighten about everything still.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww41/flatfender_2009/1-2_zps6cd4cec7.jpg

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww41/flatfender_2009/2-2_zps58f9b30e.jpg

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww41/flatfender_2009/4-1_zpsadb5cfb1.jpg

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww41/flatfender_2009/3-2_zps45b7b5d7.jpg

[kb0nly]

Nice job!!! That looks good.

[flatfender]

Hey kb, thanks for the compliment! I got enough of it put together today to run around the back yard and to the mailbox. Wow, the work was worth every hour spent. I am very impressed with how firm but plush and well dampened the rear is, it rides like a Cadillac, no really a Cadillac. With the raised rear the trike has a more comfortable and normal feeling ride posture too, I think extending the forks would be a mistake. I ran it fast through the frozen potato patch and the front bottomed out a few times but the rear was good. Maybe I need some stiffer front springs or heavier oil. The icing on the cake is this project was done with all stock parts, the swingarm shock and driveshaft plus all the bolts are Honda parts, and nothing was custom made so getting replacements if necessary shouldn't be a problem. It was cheap too, about $45 for everything, $45 for shipping and $20 for grinding wheels, welding rod and rattlecan black.

[kb0nly]

Sweet... Any problems with driveshaft articulation or is that ok for the little the swingarm actually moves?

[flatfender]

The U-joint is in no danger with the shock I'm using. I didn't measure it that accurately because I found it to be way more articulation than needed but I think the U-joint could handle 10 or so inches of travel. The unweighted trike has zero static suspension sag. When I sit on the machine the sag is about 1.5 inches. It then has about 3.5 inches of up travel before it touches the bumpstop and will compress another .5 inch at full bottoming out. At this point the tires would be about 2 inches from the bottom of the fenders. I have not yet felt the rear bottom out so it should be just enough travel considering I'm not going to be treating it like a 200X. The rear shock has very little compression setting but a ton of rebound setting, so on the trail there should be no harshness from larger single hits like roots and no rear kick up or bouncing after a suspension compression or landing. What's kind of cool is when you hit the gas from a standstill it has the "Porsche squat" from the driveshaft torque on the ring gear. I rode it some more since my last post and can say the real weakness now is the front end. It's just too soft and bottoms too easily from the increased speeds I can go over rough terrain. I may need a fork swap but I know I don't want raise the front height any and I really don't want to change the wheel lug bolt pattern. Plus I'd be pissed if I swapped 250ES forks and found there was no significant difference. I'm going to call Race-Tech or Eibach tomorrow and see about custom 200M springs before I do anything. Anyway, I'm sure glad I'm doing this now so I can enjoy it this summer. Thanks for your help and interest, hopefully I can talk someone else into trying this too.

[kb0nly]

Most excellent! One last question... Looks like it took up all the space behind the battery box, still enough room to mount up the starter solenoid and the regulator? I have thought about doing something like this but it wont be on the 200ES i have now, that is going to be stock and stay a hardtail, its my winter plow rig and having a hardtail rear helps. I know a guy with a 200X that has a plow kit on it, he bounces and spins a lot when trying to push a lot of weight.

But.... If i can find a decent rider that needs some work... Then ya never know what i might get myself into.. LOL

[flatfender]

It's definitely something you have to really want. It's hard to justify not buying a 250ES to get a utility with a shock. But I like different and never what the masses are buying. I like the high/low/reverse sub transmission and its shift lever. The old school look with a vintage CB style gas tank too. Plus the engine's been around since 1970 and the parts that are still available are crazy, I think they still make these engines in South America used in the newest version of the NX125.

As for the starter selenoid and R/R goes they fit fine. I was going to put the shock where the battery went and the battery in the tool box but the shock would have been too soft with the added leverage of moving it forward. Now I have the problem of what to do about the toolbox that also mounts the running/brake and reverse light. Also the foot brake cable is not long enough and I have to finish welding the tabs on the 200M forks for the 200ES front rack and headlight guard. It's getting close!

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww41/flatfender_2009/012_zps82cbb6af.jpg

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww41/flatfender_2009/010-1_zpsecf7615a.jpg

[BigRedAl]

nice work, looks great

[flatfender]

I got the front rack and 200ES headlight guard mounted to the 200M forks today

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww41/flatfender_2009/1-2_zpsf07685aa.jpg

Plus I got the tool box figured out. I cut about four inches off the front and rivoted a piece of 4mm aluminum plate to it. The tool box is very thick, about 5/16" and being so strong it was a lot easier than I thought it would be.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww41/flatfender_2009/2-2_zpsdce80837.jpg

Now I need to get a seat cover, fork boots, brake cables then clean and paint the racks. Paint the original tank and get a 200Es decal kit from ebay. Then pull the 29 year old engine and freshen it up, not sure if I want to go the XR200R route. If I did that I'd likely have to go through the crank/rod and transmission. I might just keep the engine in the frame and pull the head and jug and install a new piston and rebuilt head.

[kb0nly]

Very nice!!! Really starting to shape up.

[flatfender]

Thanks, I changed the fork oil yesterday. That helped, it doesn't bottom out going through the same stuff, at the same speed, it used to bottom out three times in two seconds. I think I got this thing all sorted out. The tool box is a lot smaller but it still holds a pair of tire chains and 6 12" bungee cord chain tighteners. The one thing I need help with now is getting an odometer mounted up. I could probably figure out most of it but the thing that goes in the hub to spin the speedo gear that mounts on the axle. This ain't gonna be easy to find. Any help would be very much appreciated.

[kb0nly]

Finding the drive gear is the hardest... It took me a while to find mine.

[flatfender]

I have an old GPS just sitting on a garage shelf, it has 'distance traveled', I'll use that until (and if) I can ever find the correct parts to piece together a mechanical odometer. I remember why I didn't use it much, you can't read the screen in full sunlight, only if you stop and get under some shade. But it will work as intended, or for my purposes as a fuel used gauge.