1986 350x, how much power should it have if built

[Audio_Phill]

Currently is has a 12:1 piston, 400ex carb, no air box, uni filter, dg full chrome exhaust +1 front sprocket, tiny rear sprocket (will count teeth asap) +3" swingarm, +4" durablue axle with 1.25" wheel spacers. 8x8 douglas beadlock rims. its running lean in mid to high rpm but very rich at idle. Even with the carb this far out of dialed in its still almost too powerful... Front tire is 23x8x11, rears are 18x10x8.

First ride was today, My friend brough over his predator 500 built for racing and its pretty insane for a 500... or so i thought, he wins almost every race he enters in at local events, its heavily modded and setup properly.

That said, he encouraged me to break out the 350x for its maiden voyage (after i got it back together) the 12:1 compression makes it nearly impossible to kick, you have to roll the kick till you are off a compression stroke or I (204Lbs, fairly athletic) can not kick it over period. Got it fired up, let it warm up a lil till it would take fuel well and we were off. He raised hell from the get go and at first I figured his 500 would make short work of my 350x but as I grew more comfortable with it and began opening it up a lil, I was able to keep up with him around my trails fairly easily. Then, after all butterflies were gone I began really getting in to it and his predator was no longer a threat, This thing is hard to hold on too, it stretches your arms to the point of wearing out my shoulders and fatiguing my hands, wrists and fingers. In a straight drag up a 250 foot hill climb I have set up, I could beat him by 70 feet...

It has a 3" extended swingarm so its not as prone to the front lofting as it would be otherwise, but in 3rd gear a power wheelie from 3K rpm up is no problem at all. I used to have a kdx 220r (2 stroke trail bike) 32HP 223lbs... and this trike easily has twice the power and geared as it is I feel like it may wind out well above 80mph. Even on asphalt I could get it to break and drift it with smoke trailing off the tires.

I'm hoping to get the carb issue tweaked and any advice on that would be very appreciated, and if there is more power to be had by tweaking it, im not sure how I'm going to keep it on the ground lol. Im assuming from all I read the carb is stock by its behavior given the breathing mods the trike has. at idle it sometimes sounds a lil like its flooding and it has the off idle stutter mentioned if pilot is too large but not bad enough that I am worried about it, but I do need to richen the mid and high range the pipe gained alot of blueing after out session today.

After mopping the floor with the predator, I swapped rides and let him ride the 350x and he says it has too much power and that it was scary lol.

Even after searching youtube and going through a plethora of 350x video's I can not find one on there that exhibits the sheer force this trike is putting on me. I'll get a video when I can.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I'd line my 350r up againt ya!! :naughty::beer

But all kidding aside, have you done any plug chops to verify that it is in fact too lean on mid and top?? If so, then start by richening the main jet. Try to initially set it up so it is too rich then incrementally lean it a size at a time till you get it dialed in without beaing too lean. You may want to raise your needle 1 position too, but get the main jet dialed in first.

As to the too rich condition down low.... Have you verified proper float height adjustment? If the float height is off it can negatively efect your ability to get the jetting dialed in and if it's off far enough can cause it to flood out.

But you seem to know your way around an engine by the sound of it and I am probably just telling you stuff you already know.

Good luck with it and quit running it till you get that jetting dialed in.. You don't want to burn down your piston running too lean like that.

[Audio_Phill]

I would imagine a 350 2 stroke should beat a strong 350 4 stroke lol. but this is by leaps and bounds the most peppy, strong, responsive engine I have ever experienced, it pulls harder than my zzr1200 (stage 1). Makes very short work of my 2012 drz400s, and smokes the wifes gs500e (stage 1) without effort. I would actually be interested in a run against the 350r for fun though, my xr650l (desmogged, -1 front, +3rear) doesnt even have anything for this trike. It pulls harder than my homies Kawi brute force 750i.

I have not plug chopped, never have done that. Ive been at it so long I can watch the pipe and get an idea whats going on fuel ratio wise. The 400ex carb swap is common, was thinking maybe someone would have as idea exactly what number jets I might want to start with for rolling. I'm thinking change needle 2 clip positions (if possible) and go up 3 jet sizes for main.

[Audio_Phill]

The float needle does act like theres some trash stuck in it not letting it close completely, the most common issue with these if the overflow is dripping while the petcock is set to on.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Ha ha, just pokin ya in the ribs a little... :beer

In my experience, it's pretty common for a 350x to turn those chrome DG headers blue the first few inches closest to the head.

I don't have any experience with the 400ex carb on a 350x, but I would think stock 400 jetting should be somewhat close for your engine and the mods it has.

You stated it has a 12:1 piston... I know Wiseco makes 10.25:1 and 12.5:1.. What piston maker is setting you set up at 12:1?

The reason I ask is that with the Wisecos, 12.5:1 puts you close to needing to mix 50/50 race and pump fuel. Your engine running that 12:1 might be running a bit hot if you are running straight pump fuel. Something to consider. Not enough octane can sometimes be mistaken for lean jetting if its close.

And your right about not knowing if it's possible to adjust needle position on that carb. I have noticed that quite a few newer design carbs have non readily adjustable slide needles. You have to buy a shim kit.. I know my Z400's are that way... But those are Mikunis. Not sure if the newer Keihins on the thumpers do that too or not.....

Sure does sound like a heck of a trike! You do the build yourself or did you buy it that way from someone else?

[gus]

Just show me pics man !!!!!!

[Audio_Phill]

Its a wiseco .020 over 12:1 here's a link to one.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=370517869625

It does ok off pump gas (93] but engine wants 110 which they sale at our local dirty track.

I bought it needing final assembly and tweaks. Other than the carb needing dialed in I'm waiting on a new valve covert gasket, the orings for oil filter access door, and valve adjustment port cap. All on the way, now i gotta get the carb right. The pipe is blue from the had to where the 2 merge into one.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Son of a gun, you are right about the comp ratio... I haven't looked at 350x parts in a while and could have sworn the higher piston was 12.5... Sorry about that! My mistake...

Blue pipe all the way to the merge point does sound a bit excessive....That could very well be due to running lower octane fuel.

If it were me, and the engine build calculates out to want race fuel I would start there. I can't imagine your mods would require more than a step or so richer jetting than stock 400 specs. I betcha that's what it is.

[Audio_Phill]

Heres a few pics, link to my pb album of trike pics. these were just taken, the x is dirty from todays ride the water hose was frozen solid so i wasnt able to clean it :(

http://s386.beta.photobucket.com/user/AudioPhill/library/trike%20pics

[ezmoney1979]

Is it faster than the Big Red?

[Audio_Phill]

Is it faster than the Big Red?

lol, depends on how many many things you connect them to I suppose...

Think the big red would be faster through the 8th mile if pulling a 1000lb trailer up a 10 degree slope in 4" deep muck lol.

[Afrothunderkat]

If you think your 350x is gnarlly, you should try a smoker!

[Audio_Phill]

Over the past 25 years I've rode allot of 2 strokes, my yz250 pulled similar but the lateral thrust I'm getting is alien to me from a small bore engine. My zrx1200r had a similar pull but not as flat across its rpm range. I built it for torque and it was making 132hp and 82ft lbs but geared taller and 200 lbs heavier it pulled hard but not as instant. the throttle response I'm currently getting is very 2stroke like, its revving so fast and pulling so hard that i pulled a muscle in my left spoiler on its maiden voyage by going from an idle putt to wide open in second gear. The current fuel in it is 1/2 110oct and 1/2 93octa and I'm not getting any detonation but it seems the combustion is near idea as instant as propulsion is when opening throttle.

The constant pull from 3k rpm up is just amazing from this Lil thing. I'm working on getting a go pro hd or similar camera for a video of me eating my friends predator for breakfast. His predator pulls harder at its peak, but the curve in torque band is much more apparent and the x is pulling much harder for 70% of its range. After another ride on my buddies 750i it is pulling harder, and it should be, its opened up and chipped, and a vtwin, but i don't feel like it accelerates faster than the x.

I'm not trying to say my trike is the fastest, or the most powerful, I'm just getting allot more out of this engine than i expected. It is by far the meanest machine I've owned for dirt. It reminds me of an older 600r with more grunt down low. It pulls like a 2 stroke, but has a very wide and flat curve, should be a little better soon, ordered a dynojet stage one and 2 for the carb so i should be able to rid its lean condition mid to high revs.

Who else has had their x wake up like this from similar mods?

[Swinger]

My wife had an 86 X with the same piston and was by far the fastest X I ever rode. She did well at trikefest drag racing against some big bores. Gave my Tecate a run for its money.

[yaegerb]

Are you sure its not stroked?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Are you sure its not stroked?

I was wondering the same thing...


But yeah Phil, the 350x is legendary for it's performance, and is still competitive with the "modern" 400's of today. It was the king of thumper-hill for many years. There wasn't a thumper that could even remotely compare till '98 when the 400ex came out... And before anyone thinks about bringing up a Warrior.....PLEASE! :beer

My brother (who is a member here but seldom signs in) has an '86 with DG full exhaust, Wiseco 10.25:1 piston, K&N and compared to a completely stock 350x the difference in snap and quick power is very noticeable to me. I have done this vs that comparison as our other brother (Ride_Red_Man) has a bone stock 350x. The difference is very noticeable. I can only imagine how much snottier the 12:1 piston would make it over the 10.25:1.

[xrider]

Here is the Dyno report from my 350x to give you an idea (rear wheel numbers). It is a 425 big bore running a 39mm FCR carb.

http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/zwaylo/Curve.jpg

[jays375]

Think you better get some race fuel and start jetting up.Especially if the carb has stick 400 jets stil in it.

[Audio_Phill]

I picked up a dynojet kit stages 1&2, by its directions it pretty much said use the larges jet they provided and put needle on same 3rd notch as stock but I shimmed it with the supplied washer to give it a hint more fuel.

No, im not sure its not stroked, but sotp dyno suggests very similar results to the dyno graph, insane flat torque band, nice high peak in hp around 7K...

Imma try to get a gallon of 110 and see what happens. Im thinking I may have to go to notch 4 on needle as blue as my pipe was getting. The carb was stock as far as I could tell, Idle screw was out 4.75 instead of 3.5 though, there was trash under float needle so cleaned that out and no more leak when fuel is turned on. Pulled pilot and it looked nice and clean, blew it out and reinstalled.

Current carb setup is:

stock pilot
170 dynojet main (up from 165 keihin)
needle on 3 + shim
Mixture screw 3.5 out from seated

[Audio_Phill]

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/AudioPhill/trike%20pics/FB_IMG_13578871250479513.jpg
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/AudioPhill/trike%20pics/FB_IMG_13578874982868112.jpg
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/AudioPhill/trike%20pics/2013-01-11_02-08-26_159.jpg
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/AudioPhill/trike%20pics/2013-01-05_22-36-49_352.jpg
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/AudioPhill/trike%20pics/2013-01-05_22-44-42_143.jpg
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/AudioPhill/trike%20pics/2013-01-11_02-15-27_971.jpg
http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/AudioPhill/trike%20pics/IMG_20130111_022147.jpg

[Audio_Phill]

Oil filter cover oring was worn badly. found a cover on the bay for $17 with all o-rings and spring, it arrived in pure black like stock so I painted the honda indention with some of the wifes nail polish... I like how it turned out!

http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo310/AudioPhill/trike%20pics/2013-01-07_14-22-48_202.jpg

[69-ss-396]

Holy Sh!t thats my old 350x. I completely rebuilt that bike in 2009 and traded it to a buddy of mine in nov 2011. That thing was right when I had it. motor was 20 over with what I thought was a 11.5 piston and a stage 3 Cam. I was running the carb with a 175 main and a 45 pilot. I still have all the jet numbers in my book! That pipe turned that color after I started it way lean waiting for some jets to come it... What happened to the motor? I had only put about 10 hours on it when I got rid of it. I know my buddy only put a couple hours on it before he sold it to a guy down in GA. Here she is in her Glory!!! http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/107445-My-350x-project/page2

[69-ss-396]

And here is a video that was taken at Busco beach, you will see the x in it.. watch in HD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYvB_kB44iw

[Audio_Phill]

if thats not it, its a clone... picked it up from a guy in augusta, not sure what he did to it but it was light years from right, the carb had stock jets, the pipe was new when i picked it up, blued in 10 minutes... the axle (300ex axle) isnt the proper dimensions so the left rear stuck out 1.25" more so i had to put hub spacers on the outside to even it out, chain adjuster is missing, clarke tank installed but cap was busted up and leaked fuel badly, it smokes like hell when you first start it where he had it apart and didnt replace gaskets and seals and the valve guide seal isnt seating, those nice rims in the picture are no longer to be found, it has a nice 85-86 250r front and 8x8 douglas bead lock's on the rear with nearly bald gbc shredder 18x11x8's lol... its still brutally strong but has alot of kinks im working out... has no trouble with atv's of substantially larger displacement. eventually, ill have it back to its best possible shape. Right now its leaking around 2/5ths of a quart of oil per hour from front valve inspection cap, valve/rocker cover and was pouring out around oil filter cover but once removed it was easy to see the o-ring around the oil filter area was shot and there was so much dirt in it it wouldnt fit flush against the engine. Hopefully this coming week or so i can pull it apart and give it fresh gaskets and o-rings throughout. not sure why dude though it needed to be modded more, especially not caring enough about it to do it right...

[Audio_Phill]

Holy Sh!t thats my old 350x. I completely rebuilt that bike in 2009 and traded it to a buddy of mine in nov 2011. That thing was right when I had it. motor was 20 over with what I thought was a 11.5 piston and a stage 3 Cam. I was running the carb with a 175 main and a 45 pilot. I still have all the jet numbers in my book! That pipe turned that color after I started it way lean waiting for some jets to come it... What happened to the motor? I had only put about 10 hours on it when I got rid of it. I know my buddy only put a couple hours on it before he sold it to a guy down in GA. Here she is in her Glory!!! http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/107445-My-350x-project/page2

what became of the starter and were the jets you nentioned keihin or dj?

[Audio_Phill]

what became of the starter and were the jets you nentioned keihin or dj?

also, in the case the axle is the same one, i read you said it was adjustable, do you mean via the hub spacers?

[Audio_Phill]

what became of the starter and were the jets you nentioned keihin or dj?

I didn't see mention of a 400ex carb in your original thread, did you just jet the stock carb?

[69-ss-396]

I sold the starter. It just didnt have enough a** to turn the motor over. I'm sure you have noticed the on/off switch has a start button on in. that was off a new 450r at the time. The axle is or was adjustable with the spacers it was a lonestar. Not sure why it is wider on one side. It weren't when I put it together! I put the 400ex carb on and used keihin jets..

[Audio_Phill]

I sold the starter. It just didnt have enough a** to turn the motor over. I'm sure you have noticed the on/off switch has a start button on in. that was off a new 450r at the time. The axle is or was adjustable with the spacers it was a lonestar. Not sure why it is wider on one side. It weren't when I put it together! I put the 400ex carb on and used keihin jets..

After going through the carb and installing the stage 2 dynojet kit with main 170, needle on 3w/shim, took it out and it would flood out... Cross referenced the dynojet equivalent to a keihin 175, turns out to be a 158, didn't have a 158 so i dropped in a 160 and POW... Top end is stronger and you can hear the trike is more throaty. Mid and low still seemed a little to rich so i pulled needle and changed to position 2w/shim. Fuel screw was on 3.5 out and it seemed a Lil low so I backed it out another 1/2 turn. Will test ride with this change asap :(

[Audio_Phill]

Any info on swapping to a 400ex cdi/coil would be appreciated, looking to maximize the efficiency of the trike in its current setup, It currently has no problem with larger quads but I can tell theres more potential in it. It is difficult to start when cold but now starts first kick when warmed up. I can tell its not optimized, but I plan on trying a few more jet sizes before I'm set on carb, but if a performance cdi would be a worthwhile upgrade i'll grab one and toss it on then dial in carb as I figure a hotter spark may change jetting requirements a lil.

[Audio_Phill]

After going through the carb and installing the stage 2 dynojet kit with main 170, needle on 3w/shim, took it out and it would flood out... Cross referenced the dynojet equivalent to a keihin 175, turns out to be a 158, didn't have a 158 so i dropped in a 160 and POW... Top end is stronger and you can hear the trike is more throaty. Mid and low still seemed a little to rich so i pulled needle and changed to position 2w/shim. Fuel screw was on 3.5 out and it seemed a Lil low so I backed it out another 1/2 turn. Will test ride with this change asap :(

Put a few hours on it today, still a tiny stutter off idle, ordering a 45 pilot to replace the one in it, I cant read it well but I swear it says 47.5 ?? gonna keep the needle at 2w/shim for now, seems very close to idea. theres now yellow showing up on the pipe so im in a better place than when it got here. It starts much easier too, adjusted the compression release cable and that did help a tad... Still having to jump and fall on kick starter to get it to turn over, but it bounces me off of it less often now. After warm, starts on first kick everytime for the moment.

[quicksr20]

Sound like a killer trike......videos PLEASE!!!!!!!

[Audio_Phill]

Ive said that every time ive got to take it out for some ride time... "Man I wish I coulda got some video..." :( lol

Only person who could have video'd was the guy who rides the predator, and I feel guilty about asking him to pause his riding because he doesnt get much saddle time either lol. Were supposed to go hit some woods before long, should be a big enough ride to get some good video of it in action. Pondering on a valve adjustment, theres a peck/tap sound that leads me to think its past dew for one, and im not sure if I'm up to doing it myself and I fear how long the shop would have it before it was ready

[Audio_Phill]

Holy Sh!t thats my old 350x. I completely rebuilt that bike in 2009 and traded it to a buddy of mine in nov 2011. That thing was right when I had it. motor was 20 over with what I thought was a 11.5 piston and a stage 3 Cam. I was running the carb with a 175 main and a 45 pilot. I still have all the jet numbers in my book! That pipe turned that color after I started it way lean waiting for some jets to come it... What happened to the motor? I had only put about 10 hours on it when I got rid of it. I know my buddy only put a couple hours on it before he sold it to a guy down in GA. Here she is in her Glory!!! http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/107445-My-350x-project/page2

Do you by chance still have the specs for idea valve clearance with this cam, think I'll check them but I have no idea what clearances should be with this cam, Cant find any literature on a cam that even fits this engine in a stage larger than 1 :(

Any help will be more than appreciated. I'm doing all I can to get this 350 back to like in your pictures and running as smooth as it will look.

[ScreaminRed]

I have this X now, picked it up from Audio Phill today. Thanks bud, good dealing with ya! :)