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barnett468
01-26-2013, 03:12 AM
hi i am new to the site just thought i'd check it out. i'm an ex factory project engineer and pro motocross, 3 wheel and 4 wheel rider for kawasaki.
i did deveopment on all kawi products from 1983-1988. i don't really have a question just yet but if for some reason any you might have one for me please feel to ask anything at all and i will be happy to answer it to the best of my ability.


1-27-2013 added for thosae that had other questions

i have info on riders from brad lackey to jimmy white, jet skis and the boat project, police bikes, road race, rob muzzy, team green, dirt bikes, the mule, stealth projects etc. i will try to condense all answers. if you want a really short answer please let me know. there is a back story to every answer.

i have had a little time to check out the site and enjoy it a lot. lots of good info, lots of topics, very well laid out. best i have found!

thanks to all those that have had interest and questions in the many interesting things that went on behind closed doors at r and d. and thanks for the warm welcome to all those that have offered it.

CodyRosa
01-26-2013, 03:45 AM
Wow Awesome! Welcome to 3WW. What trikes do you currently own? Or have owned in the past??

Toaster556
01-26-2013, 04:05 AM
Awesome! Anything you can tell us about what Kawasaki had planned before the CPSA killed things?
Welcome!:welcome:

barnett468
01-26-2013, 04:53 AM
Wow Awesome! Welcome to 3WW. What trikes do you currently own? Or have owned in the past??

"none, quit riding a while back. i used the 84 ore production test bike for all my racing..uh i mean all my testing purposes untill we did the 86 model. also raced my friends suzuki quad. we didn't have one at the time".

thanks for asking

not for reprint

barnett468
01-26-2013, 05:32 AM
Awesome! Anything you can tell us about what Kawasaki had planned before the CPSA killed things?
Welcome!:welcome:

"this question always makes me so _____ happy! you'll be sorry you asked but i said i'd answer your questions.

i'm assuming you mean when the government stupidly outlawed 3 wheelers in 87 due to a bull___t highly biased 60 minutes television show that CLEARLY showed some stupid moron dad with a beer in his hand putting his poor 6 year old kid, who had never ridden before, on a trike and sending him off unsupervised and we watch the kid ride out blindly from behind stupid morons dad's van into a high speed traffic zone only to get totaled by another bike then 60 minutes stupidly, stupidly, stupidly, proudly demonstrably pontificated with authority that "see 3 wheelers are dangerous so they should be outlawed" instead of stating that stupid moron dad's and stupid people like him are clearly the cause of most 3 wheel accidents. Is that what you mean by cpsa? if 3 wheelers are so ______ dangerous then why don't they fall over when you let go of them like oh...uh... let's say MAYBE A ______ MOTORCYCLE? Guess they better outlaw junior's pedal trike to cause god knows when he rides off into the street while his parents are suckin back suds on the sofa [nothin wrong with that actually] and junior gets turned into hamburger helper by a 1967 buick station wagon fully loaded with all the neighbor kids while headin for the beach it will definitely be the 3 wheelers fault because if he didn't have one he couldn't have ridden it off into the street. so by this logic if junior simply runs out into the street and gets hit, then it's the tennis shoe mfg's fault. no shoes, can't run off into the street. see?

we had no plans other than to continue with the 86 model for 87 and hopefully they would give me the time to fix the steering head shake.

here's what happened at kawi. the feds came looking for the person responsible for developing the 3 wheeler and in the us that was me uh.. oh, so kawi told me to make myself scarce and they sacraficed the project engineer for the jet ski dept. this is so i would not be put into a compromising position under oath plus kawi new me very very well and wisely kept me far away from those _____ _______s. in short i would have not made the type of witness on the stand kawi was looking for. the guy from jet ski knew absolutely nothing about the three wheelers and he wasn't the brightest bulb in the lamp anyway. so all he could sort of honestly answer [ok he lied] under oath was that he knew nothing about them or any potential safety issues with them.

i heard honda planned to dump their unsold ones into the ocean to create an artificial reef, get a write off and probably a subsidy from the government. kawi on the other hand asked me to turn the 86 tecate into a 4 wheeler using as many 3 wheeler parts as possible. that's another story i'll gladly tell if someone wants to know!

thanks for asking are you sorry now?

not for reprint




---s6outlay outlawed 3 whkthem in

loshe191
01-26-2013, 07:21 AM
Welcome. I like your response you are stating facts.

barnett468
01-26-2013, 07:32 AM
Welcome. I like your response you are stating facts.

hello loshe191

"i truly appreciate your welcome and your support. my honesty has upset some others before, i'm really actually a very nice and [hopefully] funny guy. but if you ask me a question i'm gonna answer it. i ain't got time to beat around no bush [cause i'm too busy beatin the neighbors dog that just wheed on my mustang wheels]. just kidden, i actually sic my cat on em!

PS - peta members please don't send me any hate mail, geez".

not for reprint

loshe191
01-26-2013, 07:43 AM
Do you have any pictures of the trike racing of the 80's.

barnett468
01-26-2013, 07:57 AM
Do you have any pictures of the trike racing of the 80's.

"unfortunately no, i didn't think of taking any because i thought there would always be a tomorrow. if you go to youtube and search for jimmy white or marty hart loretta lynn. you can see a most xlnt 30 minute battle. the 86/87 models i developed got the top three holeshots with jimmy donnie and don't know who else. it was a sea of green".

thanks for asking

not for reprint

barnett468
01-26-2013, 08:01 AM
loshe191

forgot to mention STOMPED the red things whatever they're called. lol

PS - again no hate mail please!

MIK6
01-26-2013, 09:28 AM
Welcome to the site!!
Its cool to have the racers and developers from the 3wheeler days show up to the site and contribute!

MIK6/ Mike

KI4UJO
01-26-2013, 02:28 PM
[QUOTE=barnett468;1190658
i heard honda planned to dump their unsold ones into the ocean to create an artificial reef, get a write off and probably a subsidy from the government. kawi on the other hand asked me to turn the 86 tecate into a 4 wheeler using as many 3 wheeler parts as possible. that's another story i'll gladly tell if someone wants to know! [/QUOTE]
Anyone want to do a scuba trip? I've always wanted an 87R.

Swinger
01-26-2013, 03:11 PM
Awesome that you came to this site. Do you plan on throwing a leg over a machina again? I bet if you stay here long enough you will find it doesnt take much to get bitten or rebitten by the bug, ha ha! Welcome aboard and hope ya stick around.

jeswinehart
01-26-2013, 03:44 PM
Hi Mike, welcome aboard.
Do you happen to recall how often the KIPS spur gear was changed during races ? Like was it after every run or after the whole meet was over,,, any input about those plastic gears used on the 87/88 Tecate quads ?

Thanks, john

barnett468
01-26-2013, 08:26 PM
Welcome to the site!!
Its cool to have the racers and developers from the 3wheeler days show up to the site and contribute!

MIK6/ Mike

thanks for the post

barnett468
01-26-2013, 08:27 PM
anyone want to do a scuba trip? I've always wanted an 87r.

count me in!

barnett468
01-26-2013, 08:34 PM
Awesome that you came to this site. Do you plan on throwing a leg over a machina again? I bet if you stay here long enough you will find it doesnt take much to get bitten or rebitten by the bug, ha ha! Welcome aboard and hope ya stick around.

"you never know. it would be fun to kick the old man's [jimmy white] a__ again. did it once before, only once though. however marty hart could probably stomp us all at this age. i thought of marty as mr clutch cause he'd always be fanning it".

thanks

not for publication

barnett468
01-26-2013, 08:50 PM
Hi Mike, welcome aboard.
Do you happen to recall how often the KIPS spur gear was changed during races ? Like was it after every run or after the whole meet was over,,, any input about those plastic gears used on the 87/88 Tecate quads ?

Thanks, john

"hello i have never heard of them needing to be changed. here's what goes on. i recieved the prototype, i personally logged around 200 plus hours on it. i never took the motor apart untill the end. nbo problems. i then recieved the pre producyion model and had to make sure it was made exactly to my specs and check for any mfg issues. then i had to do another long endurance test on it. no problems. so i said ok make it. if there was eventually some sort of problem like you are referring to either i or japan would be asked to fix it. i would test the new part and once it was ok they would substitute it for the original as needed for warranties etc. they never said told me there was a problem.

same thing with the piece of junk 87 quad you ask about. DISCLAIMER i had NOTHING to do with the product they put out. i developed a masterpiece, honda and suzuki killer but a couple japanese engineers were stupid and jealous and screwed me you and everyone else.

t65h
01-26-2013, 10:29 PM
hi i am new to the site just thought i'd check it out. i'm an ex factory project engineer and pro motocross, 3 wheel and 4 wheel rider for kawasaki.
did deveopment on all kawi products from 1983-1988. i don't really have a question just yet but will be happy to answer any you might have for me for now.

thanks

Welcome. I just joined the site a few days ago. I am glad to get the opportunity to say hello. You helped create an amazing machine. I always thought that the Tecates were the fastest 3 wheelers ever made. Those engines are amazing. Thank you for all of your efforts. You are a part of history. I miss the days of the manufacturers battling for the best two stroke 3 wheeler. I used to buy magazines to read the tests and shootouts.

jeswinehart
01-26-2013, 10:41 PM
"hello i have never heard of them needing to be changed. here's what goes on. i recieved the prototype, i personally logged around 200 plus hours on it. i never took the motor apart untill the end. nbo problems. i then recieved the pre producyion model and had to make sure it was made exactly to my specs and check for any mfg issues. then i had to do another long endurance test on it. no problems. so i said ok make it. if there was eventually some sort of problem like you are referring to either i or japan would be asked to fix it. i would test the new part and once it was ok they would substitute it for the original as needed for warranties etc. they never said told me there was a problem.

same thing with the piece of junk 87 quad you ask about. DISCLAIMER i had NOTHING to do with the product they put out. i developed a masterpiece, honda and suzuki killer but a couple japanese engineers were stupid and jealous and screwed me you and everyone else.

Uhh ,,, well yeah,,, I just had heard at one time or another about that particular gear got changed out alot by Team riders as a prevenitive measure.
Ya might want to "bite tongue" before typing and pushing the enter button when calling any particular machine a piece of junk on here.
I don't own one, never rode one either. It was just a question I had for a "engineer".

Okay, got one more question for ya,,, what the heck is with the > "not for publication" thingy you sign off with ?

barnett468
01-26-2013, 10:42 PM
Welcome. I just joined the site a few days ago. I am glad to get the opportunity to say hello. You helped create an amazing machine. I always thought that the Tecates were the fastest 3 wheelers ever made. Those engines are amazing. Thank you for all of your efforts. You are a part of history. I miss the days of the manufacturers battling for the best two stroke 3 wheeler. I used to buy magazines to read the tests and shootouts.

"hello thanks for your kind words. yes kawi's were definitely the king of hp, we made sure of that. i would do like 100 yard drag tests to be sure. beat the honda every single time every year i was there. not by much though. sorry honda guys, the 86 tecate shoot out test you read is slightly flawed, we probably should have won. i'll tell you how if you want"

thanks

not for publication

t65h
01-26-2013, 10:59 PM
"hello thanks for your kind words. yes kawi's were definitely the king of hp, we made sure of that. i would do like 100 yard drag tests to be sure. beat the honda every single time every year i was there. not by much though. sorry honda guys, the 86 tecate shoot out test you read is slightly flawed, we probably should have won. i'll tell you how if you want"

thanks

not for publication

I would love to hear about it. I always wondered how the engineers decided how much horsepower, suspension travel, weight, etc. for a machine like that. The Tecate put out so much power stock. I would guess that they were designed to give people room to easily get more power out of them. Racers will sacrifice reliability for horsepower, and expect to rebuild engines. I always thought that the Honda and Kawasaki targeted each other. (Just a kids guess at the time, but they stood out for me.) Thanks.

barnett468
01-26-2013, 11:11 PM
Uhh ,,, well yeah,,, I just had heard at one time or another about that particular gear got changed out alot by Team riders as a prevenitive measure.
Ya might want to "bite tongue" before typing and pushing the enter button when calling any particular machine a piece of junk on here.
I don't own one, never rode one either. It was just a question I had for a "engineer".

Okay, got one more question for ya,,, what the heck is with the > "not for publication" thingy you sign off with ?




"hello obviously you are hostile for some reason. don't know why and i don't want to make enemies however i am the person who developed these vehicles not you. you were not there so you have absolutely no comparrison bases between the one i developed and the ill handling pile they put out instead of mine. my opinion is based upon the fact that i was asked to develop the new tecate 4 for a specific narrow target market. i followed my instructions and was 100% successful. my vehivle and japans vehicle were tested by 6 different people including the fastest 4 wheel rider in the world that i hired for an unbiased opinion. i was probably the 10th fastest at that time. we kept beating each others lap times at CARLSBAD mx track in the summer with no water or grading of the track. if you have never ridden carlsbad you don't have a clue as to what i'm talking about. he eventually beat be me by about 1/2 a second. i surrendered. the japanese however not kawi US had a 4' 7" tall beginner rider they used to develop it in japan. long story short. i produced what the US told me to, an out of the box suzuki killer and i did it. japan produced a smaller more nimble trail rider [very good for trails very bad for racing] which they promoted as a racer. it simply wasn't. i would have built a trail bike too if they asked me too. so my point is that when compared to the US goal of making an all out racing machine with total disregard to any lower level of riding they totally missed the mark therefore use as a race bike it is unaceptable. the reliability and quality of the bike is very high".

thanks

not for publication

barnett468
01-26-2013, 11:15 PM
jeswinehart

ps i earned the right call any kawi product junk if i choose to do so.

jeswinehart
01-26-2013, 11:19 PM
Yeah good luck with it. I also have the right too assign you my next number in my banned from being bothered list. Say HELLO to number 29.

FOR publication :)

ezmoney1979
01-26-2013, 11:21 PM
"hello obviously you are hostile for some reason. don't know why and i don't want to make enemies however i am the person who developed these vehicles not you. you were not there so you have absolutely no comparrison bases between the one i developed and the ill handling pile they put out instead of mine. my opinion is based upon the fact that i was asked to develop the new tecate 4 for a specific narrow target market. i followed my instructions and was 100% successful. my vehivle and japans vehicle were tested by 6 different people including the fastest 4 wheel rider in the world that i hired for an unbiased opinion. i was probably the 10th fastest at that time. we kept beating each others lap times at CARLSBAD mx track in the summer with no water or grading of the track. if you have never ridden carlsbad you don't have a clue as to what i'm talking about. he eventually beat be me by about 1/2 a second. i surrendered. the japanese however not kawi US had a 4' 7" tall beginner rider they used to develop it in japan. long story short. i produced what the US told me to, an out of the box suzuki killer and i did it. japan produced a smaller more nimble trail rider [very good for trails very bad for racing] which they promoted as a racer. it simply wasn't. i would have built a trail bike too if they asked me too. so my point is that when compared to the US goal of making an all out racing machine with total disregard to any lower level of riding they totally missed the mark therefore use as a race bike it is unaceptable. the reliability and quality of the bike is very high".

thanks

not for publication
I would suggest toning it down a bit. John Swinehart is one of the most respected and most valuable people on this site. He was simply asking you a question. No one will care where you worked or what you had to do with three wheelers if you don't show a little respect on this site.

thestud25
01-26-2013, 11:24 PM
Interesting reads. What did you say your name was?

barnett468
01-26-2013, 11:34 PM
it's a free world do what ever makes you happy! i explained my junk statement for you. i certainly could have taken more time to explain it or in my original post. i also could have used a different term but i think i've sufficiently explained myself. however in the interest of keeping peace with some potentially overly sensitive people i will refrain from using it again and find a suitable substitute. they just really ______ me and everyone else off at kawi us with that one,. ok?

PS i see you are from michigan same place i am.

thanks

barnett468
01-26-2013, 11:48 PM
[QUOTE=barnett468;1190895]it's a free world do what ever makes you happy! i explained my junk statement for you. i certainly could have taken more time to explain it or in my original post. i also could have used a different term but i think i've sufficiently explained myself. however in the interest of keeping peace with some potentially overly sensitive people i will refrain from using it again and find a suitable substitute. they just really ______ me and everyone else off at kawi us with that one,. ok?

PS i see you are from michigan same place i am.



PS the japanese also had the unbelievable audacity to suggest all the test riders including the director of us r and d and the top rider in the us were intentionally riding their bike more slowly to make mine look better. then they said to our entire r and d department, and i quote "IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO BE NUMBER ONE THAT IS HONDA'S PLACE". well i can tell you that certainly made us want to work 6 days a week 10 hours a day!

Mosh
01-26-2013, 11:58 PM
Any pics from your PRO 3 wheeler racing days?

M.Pargiello
01-27-2013, 12:14 AM
Well, looks like kawasaki did know what they were talking about. #1 is for honda :) I kid, I love hearing old stories from our President about the old bikes (I work for Kawasaki MidWest group) and even have a vintage KX I am restoring

barnett468
01-27-2013, 12:27 AM
I would love to hear about it. I always wondered how the engineers decided how much horsepower, suspension travel, weight, etc. for a machine like that. The Tecate put out so much power stock. I would guess that they were designed to give people room to easily get more power out of them. Racers will sacrifice reliability for horsepower, and expect to rebuild engines. I always thought that the Honda and Kawasaki targeted each other. (Just a kids guess at the time, but they stood out for me.) Thanks.

hello t65h

"thanks for the question. i have to give you the abbreviated question. it worked like this. kawi did more development in the us than anyone else for some reason. basically the engineers design the bike on paper. this was before and during the advent of autocad. the math is the same but auto cad does a lot of it for you. all vehicles were designed and built in then sent here for testing to find the bugs and fix them. belive me thete are many and some very serious like frames cracking in half etc. test riding at the speeds i was going is very dangerous. i'll tell you the police bike story and hiw the original tecate came about later if you want. anyway what worked perfectly on paper never ever worked perfectly in reality. the higher performance the bike was the more work the prototype needed. take 84 tecate as an example. kawai would tell me what target market it was aimed at ie recreational or pure race etc. i would test all vehicles to max capacity to determine potential problems arising under worse case scenario. then i would test them for target purpose. all vehicles were also tested in water and high heat. the motors rarely needed much improvement other than carburetion etc. the suspension always needed work and the chassis too. i would fix them with what i had or could fabricate in house any special parts were made virtually overnight in japan and next day aired to me. very very cool. once i got it to a level i determined to be acceptable for production i would write my report and send it off. the next thing i saw was the pre production model for final testing. all vehicles went through a horrendous final endurance test".

hope this sort of answers your question. thanks

not for publication

barnett468
01-27-2013, 12:39 AM
Well, looks like kawasaki did know what they were talking about. #1 is for honda :) I kid, I love hearing old stories from our President about the old bikes (I work for Kawasaki MidWest group) and even have a vintage KX I am restoring

"ow, "et tu mpargiello?"

"i like all brands and have owned all brands. some years and models are great some suck. my sole purpose and burning determination was to take the sometimes very rough prototypes kawi gave me keep improving them untill our bike would beat the honda no matter how many 6 and 7 10 hour a days it took. results jimmy white national champ on a first year bike, virtually unheard of. the design engineer did a fantastic job i can tell that story later if you want".

thanks

not for publication

Jwmajic
01-27-2013, 12:42 AM
count me in!
Do you need a hand I'll help out for a few frames and parts.

barnett468
01-27-2013, 12:54 AM
Do you need a hand I'll help out for a few frames and parts.

hello jwmajic

unfortunately that list went around the block. actually i would frequently hire my friends to test when i needed xtra sacrificial bodies and force them to do the grueling million hour endurance tests with me.

thanks

Jwmajic
01-27-2013, 12:58 AM
I was replying to the guy who was talking about going scuba diving for some Honda's. I forgot to use the reply with quote button sorry about the confusion. Your making me wish I was your friend back in the day I'd love to ride all day on a bike you wanted broken.

barnett468
01-27-2013, 01:08 AM
I was replying to the guy who was talking about going scuba diving for some Honda's. I forgot to use the reply with quote button sorry about the confusion. Your making me wish I was your friend back in the day I'd love to ride all day on a bike you wanted broken.

no problem yeah you can bet it was fun. kinda nuts huh? here's the deal if i broke it i got to go back to air conditioned shop.

barnett468
01-27-2013, 01:11 AM
no problem yeah you can bet it was fun. kinda nuts huh? here's the deal if i broke it i got to go back to air conditioned shop.

ps you needed good health insurance imagine the suspension or footpegs breaking at 60 mph off a big jump!

M.Pargiello
01-27-2013, 01:13 AM
"ow, "et tu mpargiello?"

"i like all brands and have owned all brands. some years and models are great some suck. my sole purpose and burning determination was to take the sometimes very rough prototypes kawi gave me keep improving them untill our bike would beat the honda no matter how many 6 and 7 10 hour a days it took. results jimmy white national champ on a first year bike, virtually unheard of. the design engineer did a fantastic job i can tell that story later if you want".

thanks

not for publication

i thought it was funny, nothing serious by it. I like all machines as well, and like you said, some are better than others. I will ride anything haha. Always good to have the people that paved the way for this sport come here and share!

Jwmajic
01-27-2013, 01:18 AM
no problem yeah you can bet it was fun. kinda nuts huh? here's the deal if i broke it i got to go back to air conditioned shop.
That job has to rank up there with porn star.

barnett468
01-27-2013, 01:24 AM
That job has to rank up there with porn star.

don't know about that but i sure wish i did.

short funny story. i worked at norm reeves motorcycles, there was an "escort" house just down the street and they always had cameras and scantily clad girls running back and forth across the street. you can bet i had to test ride by there every day

barnett468
01-27-2013, 01:28 AM
i thought it was funny, nothing serious by it. I like all machines as well, and like you said, some are better than others. I will ride anything haha. Always good to have the people that paved the way for this sport come here and share!

no problem i didn't take it that way at all. i enjoy the abuse! lol. i was actually going to work for honda before i left kawi because i would have made twice as much! then i would be a honda fan but i did somnething else instead.

thanks

barnett468
01-27-2013, 01:32 AM
mpargiello

would have been fun to hire marty hart or dean sundahl or the other crew for the endurance tests.

just ben
01-27-2013, 09:13 AM
who was the genius in that designed the tecate ignition system?

barnett468
01-27-2013, 08:50 PM
who was the genius in that designed the tecate ignition system?

hello just ben thanks for the question.

"i am not quite sure exactly what you are talking about so please, please ket me know the EXACT problem you have had and i can probably answer you in specific detail. i would love to hear about it. all ignitions were designed by japan with cost considerations in mind. i was not allowed to do much to them. i did do what i could with the stocker. the original test one had NO REV LIMITER while that would obviously be anyone riders preference including mine [man that sucker would sing] japan decided that the potential warranties they would incuur by allowing it to rev to the universe and beyond were not worth the additiinal power and rpm that was gained without it. keep this in mind. jimmy white, donnie luce and chris white all ran stock ignitions and won many races and a few national championships with them. so in regards to all aspects of the ignition whether i liked it or not it was good enough. if you are referring to the incessant detonation a stock bike has i will gladly answer that if you need".

ps i like your little yellow beer guys.

thanks again.

not for publication

t65h
01-27-2013, 10:38 PM
hello t65h

"thanks for the question. i have to give you the abbreviated question. it worked like this. kawi did more development in the us than anyone else for some reason. basically the engineers design the bike on paper. this was before and during the advent of autocad. the math is the same but auto cad does a lot of it for you. all vehicles were designed and built in then sent here for testing to find the bugs and fix them. belive me thete are many and some very serious like frames cracking in half etc. test riding at the speeds i was going is very dangerous. i'll tell you the police bike story and hiw the original tecate came about later if you want. anyway what worked perfectly on paper never ever worked perfectly in reality. the higher performance the bike was the more work the prototype needed. take 84 tecate as an example. kawai would tell me what target market it was aimed at ie recreational or pure race etc. i would test all vehicles to max capacity to determine potential problems arising under worse case scenario. then i would test them for target purpose. all vehicles were also tested in water and high heat. the motors rarely needed much improvement other than carburetion etc. the suspension always needed work and the chassis too. i would fix them with what i had or could fabricate in house any special parts were made virtually overnight in japan and next day aired to me. very very cool. once i got it to a level i determined to be acceptable for production i would write my report and send it off. the next thing i saw was the pre production model for final testing. all vehicles went through a horrendous final endurance test".

hope this sort of answers your question. thanks

not for publication

barnett468 thanks for the answer. I enjoy hearing about the development. I am an engineer, so I am always interested in the details. You had mentioned about something happening with the shootout. Can you share that? I want to hear more!! Thank you.

barnett468
01-27-2013, 11:36 PM
barnett468 thanks for the answer. I enjoy hearing about the development. I am an engineer, so I am always interested in the details. You had mentioned about something happening with the shootout. Can you share that? I want to hear more!! Thank you.

Thank you again t65.

you and i speak a similar language and you probably understand everything i have said thus far and the reasons for my replies.

"I will read the shootout again shortly and expand my answer if necessary, i don't remember it all. my problem is in no way with the varied skill levels of the riders used or the varied tests they did. from what i remember it was all very good and i enjoyed it and thoght it was fair. after all they did say that if one wanted an all out, straight out of the box, race ready machine the kawi was best. keep in mind that we dealt with the magazines and their tests very often so i know how the protocol typically works. the single biggest problem is that they said the suspension bottomed and complained about it. typically if a magazine had encountered a noticeable problem during testing they should not only have had the courtesy but also the obligation [if they want all mfg's products to be as good as possible for the enjoyment and safety of the general public], to contact the mfg immediately and say hey this thing has a big problem are you ganna do anything about it? this gives the mfg an opportunity to investigate the problem and determine if the mfg really is a moron [sometimes true] or if it is simply a matter of the factory assembly line accidentally setting up the bike with the wrong setting which is easily correctible. neither the mfg nor should the magazine want to have a new bike sold to the public that has a significant flaw. why would they?

basically they said it bottomed excessively and did not like that part of it. had they called kawi to inform them of the problem they encountered kawi would have transfered them to tech dept, tech dept would have then contacted me and i would have told tech to transfer them directly to me. once i heard the problem i would have inatantly loaded up our pre productiion model and driven there to meet them to see why it was bottoming out [if in fact it was] and fix it right there and if i couldn't then i would have just ripped off my pre production suspension and installed it for them. they could have also ridden the pre pro unit to see that that bike did not bottom.

here's the deal, the proto type and pre pro bikes both with my suspension set up did not bottom. this was a major unrepairable problem with the 84/85 model, the 86 was redesigned partially to correct this problem. i was a pro racer so i flogged the livin ____ out of that thing which ibcluded mostly testing on ungraded saddleback mx style courses but included tt, short track and palm springs sand dunes etc. my test for suspension bottoming included a 60 mph+ 15foot high jump [not for the faint of heart] as well as straight sheer slow speed 10' drop offs, both done on rock hard dry surfaces. if anyone doesn't think this is absolutely punishing just try it sometime. it was set to just barely bottom softly occasionally under a couple these and other conditions.

anyway long story long, if i couldn't bottom it there is no possible way they could have bottomed it as easily as they say they did [even if they weighed more than i did] providing it had my correct suspension setting on it and they didn't tell kawi about the bottoming problem therefore i couldn't fix it and that pushed us back in their test a little".

thanks again

not for reprint





ni/bike with


toxem they would have traput them

just ben
01-28-2013, 08:16 AM
hello just ben thanks for the question.

"i am not quite sure exactly what you are talking about so please, please ket me know the EXACT problem you have had and i can probably answer you in specific detail. i would love to hear about it. all ignitions were designed by japan with cost considerations in mind. i was not allowed to do much to them. i did do what i could with the stocker. the original test one had NO REV LIMITER while that would obviously be anyone riders preference including mine [man that sucker would sing] japan decided that the potential warranties they would incuur by allowing it to rev to the universe and beyond were not worth the additiinal power and rpm that was gained without it. keep this in mind. jimmy white, donnie luce and chris white all ran stock ignitions and won many races and a few national championships with them. so in regards to all aspects of the ignition whether i liked it or not it was good enough. if you are referring to the incessant detonation a stock bike has i will gladly answer that if you need".

ps i like your little yellow beer guys.

thanks again.

not for publicationI was refering to exploding flywheels taking out the stator plate and sometimes breaking cases.If your lucky enough for your flywheel to stay intact no worries the stator will crap out on it's own. I suspect alot of it is caused by vibrations from not having a counter balancer.However the kx's of the same era did'nt have the same issues,Their flywheel magnets were held on with screws rather than glue and the stator coils seemed to hold up alot better. In the past 2 years I have replaced 6 or 7 stators on my own bikes and a few on friends bikes.

barnett468
01-28-2013, 08:52 AM
I was refering to exploding flywheels taking out the stator plate and sometimes breaking cases.If your lucky enough for your flywheel to stay intact no worries the stator will crap out on it's own. I suspect alot of it is caused by vibrations from not having a counter balancer.However the kx's of the same era did'nt have the same issues,Their flywheel magnets were held on with screws rather than glue and the stator coils seemed to hold up alot better. In the past 2 years I have replaced 6 or 7 stators on my own bikes and a few on friends bikes.

hello thanks for the reply what year is your bike? it would most likely have happened on an 86/87 model cause the early ones seemed good. i never heard of that and never had that experience. they typically would have given me an updated version to test. very strange i don't think jimmy ever broke one either. either way even though your bike is way out of warranty i would call kawi tech it is possible that if either you or a shop sends it in for you and the shop reinstalls it they might warranty it believe it or not. the squeaky wheel sometimes [not always] gets the grease. that would not make me very happy

it is possible the stator mfg [maybe hitachi not kawi] changed the glue spec or something without telling kawi. i can assure if it would have happened during testing on either bike thay would have fixed it.

ps if you are all running on a loose fitting crank shaft or on a rebuikt crank that could also contribute to the problem. see if there is a common denominator cause it obviously doesn't matter how many free ones you get if it breaks the first day of a 3 day weekend. there are also variable advance ones available i think.

KAWI MOTORS USA IRVINE 949-770-0400 ask for tech dept.

thanks again

just ben
01-28-2013, 11:55 PM
Why would the later models be more prone to it since they all have the same ignition? (besides the 84 having a bigger cdi case and 86-87 having shorter stator wires)You seem to be a little uninformed for a former team green rider and R&D engineer. I callshens And again the only question you avoided:" what did you say your name was again?"

barnett468
01-29-2013, 12:43 AM
Why would the later models be more prone to it since they all have the same ignition? (besides the 84 having a bigger cdi case and 86-87 having shorter stator wires)You seem to be a little uninformed for a former team green rider and R&D engineer. I callshens And again the only question you avoided:" what did you say your name was again?"

i tried to help you. i answered your question to the best of my ability. i suggested what you could do, i gave you the number of kawi and all you can do instead of saying thanks is try to insult me. it's clear you never wanted an answer you simply had an agenda to stir up trouble. your words and actions speak for themselves. your parents onviously failed to teach you to treat others with respect. enough said.

my name has no relevance to you. no one here would know it anyway and i certainly don't want peole like you to know it so it is a form of protection against antagonizers such as yourself.

ezmoney1979
01-29-2013, 01:43 AM
So you designed and tested the Tecate ATVs, beat Jimmy White once and were involved with magazine tests, but nobody would know who you are and you don't have any pictures from your racing or testing days? I hope you understand that some of us might be a bit skeptical. And I have a feeling that if I called a Kawi tech department and told them my flywheel came apart on my Tecate, they would wonder what that has to do with Mexican beer.

barnett468
01-29-2013, 02:46 AM
So you designed and tested the Tecate ATVs, beat Jimmy White once and were involved with magazine tests, but nobody would know who you are and you don't have any pictures from your racing or testing days? I hope you understand that some of us might be a bit skeptical. And I have a feeling that if I called a Kawi tech department and told them my flywheel came apart on my Tecate, they would wonder what that has to do with Mexican beer.

your beer comment is actually pretty funny and probably true.

well it's very simple just call jimmy or donnie. they won't need my name they'll tell you who i am without it. my name only appeared in a few race results from that time therefore it won't help you. kawasaki, honda and suzuki r and d employee names never appeared in any magazine article. the only names you might see are those from pr department. it was their job to be out in the public, it was our job to avoid it. if you have a very old magazine from 1983/1984 you will see a telephoto spy photo of two tecates side by side on the tt track at saddlrback mx course which was owned by a guy named hendricks i think, anyway the title read new kawi 3 wheeler or something. i am on one and the other is ridden by the r and d motorcycle tester who was an ex 125 ama national rider. if you don't call kawi you will never know will you?

i don't think you would get anywhere but since this the one and only option left to get a free or discounted unit i really don't understand why one wouldn't attempt it. just doesn't make sense does it? better just to sit around and do nithing but complain i guess.

we were not allowed to take or keep personal photos of any projects due to confidentiality agreements we signed when we were hired. it's a fairly secretive place.

i'll give you a clue but you'll have to find the results. saddleback tt me first, jimmie second, beat him on a set of used tires he gave me in san diego, annual perris gp team race jimmy, donnie and myself first, team homda second, la colliseum me second, san diego indoor jimmy first me 5th, big bear gp jimmy first me 5th. several other corona top finishes.


PS - Actually one honda race mechanic [not r and d tech] did appear in an article, his name was dan betley you can find it online. he started at kawi about 6 montes after i did ask him about "chuckie".

ps2fixer
01-29-2013, 03:43 AM
kawi on the other hand asked me to turn the 86 tecate into a 4 wheeler using as many 3 wheeler parts as possible. that's another story i'll gladly tell if someone wants to know!



I would like to hear the story :).

barnett468
01-29-2013, 04:57 AM
[QUOTE=ps2fixer;1191584]I would like to hear the story :).[/QUOTE


Hello thanks for the question

I’ll try to make it short. Sometime in 1986 the r and d supervisor came to me and said japan wanted me to make a 4 wheeler out of the t3 using as many of the t3 parts as humanly possible including hardware and with little or no modification. And they needed it yesterday. They did not tell me why. Perhaps they sensed the ban was coming and wanted to salvage what they could instead of just tossing it all away. I thought cool this will be fun so I took one next door to the machine shop took it apart as needed then threw it up on our fabrication table which was about a 2” thick 4’ x 7’ piece of solid steel with 2 ½ foot long legs on it. Very heavy. Didn’t have enough time to draw it all out so I basically had to just buld it on the fly. Of course I had the Suzuki as a model which was helpful. So I ended up using the t3 frame with serious mods of course. Wrestled up the necessary front end parts and grafted them to the t3. I then seriously modified some existing plastic and tossed it on the front. No it wasn’t pretty but they didn’t ask for pretty they asked for now. And that’s what they got. Well I finished it on maybe 3 weeks and took it out to test. The thing actually worked extremely well and it was fairly light. Tested it against the Suzuki and it was pretty close. My chassis was just a tiny bit flexy though. This could have been corrected through a new chassis design. Slightly soft on the stock t3 rear suspension but not bad. The goal was to build a good recreational 4 wheeler not an all out racer. It exceeded that goal by a mile. Believe me I felt a little lucky it came out so good but I did my homework and had a good platform. It took me 4 days to write the many page report which included every nut, bolt, screw and washer I saved from the t3. I was seeing double by the time I was done.

Ok here’s the problem. What became of it you ask? This leads into a story that is related to the infamous t4. I’ll tell you that story also if you want.

We also had a Suzuki quad we turned into a 4 wheel drive if you want to hear about that sometime. I had everybody calling it the chain saw [massacre]. Kinda made the builder mad.

PS – We also never tossed a single atv or jet ski we worked on while I was there. We had a whole room dedicated to the projects.

Thanks again

ps2fixer
01-29-2013, 05:37 AM
A room dedicated where projects ended up.... sounds like a museum in the making :).

Taking a wild guess the 4x4 converted Suzuki ended up something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxO2AoA-Jc

I'm going to throw more of an engering question your way. If three wheelers were still in production, how do you think the rear suspension would be? Looking at most sport and utility quads, they basically have all gone to indepenant suspension. I have also heard of on road three wheelers using a tilt based design. I think it would be neat to modernize our three wheelers a bit, but at the same time, I know it would really effect handling and such, just not sure if it would be good or bad.

http://www.motorsports-network.com/honda/2003atv/rincon/suspen2.jpg

http://www.electric-echo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/tilting.gif

Going backwards, the early 70s models didn't really have suspension (atleast the hondas didn't), I can see why, it was better to have the soft tires :D.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8

barnett468
01-29-2013, 07:12 AM
A room dedicated where projects ended up.... sounds like a museum in the making :).

Taking a wild guess the 4x4 converted Suzuki ended up something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gxO2AoA-Jc

I'm going to throw more of an engering question your way. If three wheelers were still in production, how do you think the rear suspension would be? Looking at most sport and utility quads, they basically have all gone to indepenant suspension. I have also heard of on road three wheelers using a tilt based design. I think it would be neat to modernize our three wheelers a bit, but at the same time, I know it would really effect handling and such, just not sure if it would be good or bad.

http://www.motorsports-network.com/honda/2003atv/rincon/suspen2.jpg

http://www.electric-echo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/tilting.gif

Going backwards, the early 70s models didn't really have suspension (atleast the hondas didn't), I can see why, it was better to have the soft tires :D.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8


hello ps2fixr thanks for the question

it was definitely a museum get this we had a 1973 h2 still in the crate. kawi had to keep it to be used as evedence in the dozens of law suits against them claiming the bike was unstable and therefore caused accidents. really wanted to shove it in the back of my van. it would probably be worth about $50k today. comes with the orig crate!

great video that guy is nuts i'd definitely give him a job. ours was a little slower and a bit more crude. we had the worlds first independent suspension 4 wheel progressive steering 4 wheeler. kinda sucked at mediun speeds, just wanted to tip over in the turns and wandered all over. i'm sure irs would not work well on a 3 wheeler for similar reasons. the faster you go the wobblier it would get.

just ben
01-29-2013, 08:30 AM
i don't think you would get anywhere but since this the one and only option left to get a free or discounted unit i really don't understand why one wouldn't attempt it. just doesn't make sense does it? better just to sit around and do nithing but complain i guess.



It's an issue you come to expect when you own a tecate. sorry for being a skeptic but we have seen some pretty wild claims on here

barnett468
01-29-2013, 09:19 PM
It's an issue you come to expect when you own a tecate. sorry for being a skeptic but we have seen some pretty wild claims on here

hello just ben

thank you very much for the explanation and apology. it is greatfully accepted. a lot of people would not have done that. don't know why anyone would come here just to mess with people but guess there's always someone. i guess you probably figured out by my racing posts and others that this stuff is just too wild to make up. you have not heard nothin yet, if you called jimmy donnie or danny they would have just laughed. i was a little off the hook in those days. drinkin beer, chasin chicks, playin rock and roll, racin bikes and workin at kawi with no boss. horrible life, i have been very fortunate and am very greatfull for everything i was able to do.

re ignition yeah as i mentioned the ignitions were not my concern other than the static timing i couldn't touch them and kawi did farm out parts like that to hitachi and other suppliers occasionally and there would be no reason for me to know who made them.

PS - The crazy stuff you might have heard from other pro racers is probably greatly UNDERSTATED, due to potential legal repercussions etc. lol. every rental car story is much worse than described. brad lackey told us some insane stuff and he APPEARS to be a very laid back quiet hippie when you meet him. WRONG, WRONG WRONG. He.s very naughty.

i'll gladly answer any thing i can for you now if you have further questions

thanks again

barnett468
01-29-2013, 09:43 PM
Welcome to the site.Did you ever have the Factory racers test for you. Like Jimmy White,Steve Mendenhall,Jackie Meadows,Chris White or Mickey Dunlap. What race # did you run. How well did the racer like the drum brake on the front of the 84 Tecate. Did they change it with a disc setup or was it okay with them. What where your thoughts on the sleeved down 200 Tecates.How old are you now . Im 49 and planning on racing at Pine Lake (Ashtabula ) this year.Did you ever meet Mr. Smijui.

hello atc300r thanks for the question

i had jimmy test something once or twice. too old to remember my race number it would have either 24 or some single digit at local races hoping to intimidate someone by making them think i was better than i was. a couple people at the races new i was from kawi r and d then but fortunately no one hounded me for info or free parts etc. some people thought i had secret works parts on it but it was a box stocker with just a harry klemm top end and pipe, wheel spacers and a used set of jimmy's tires and rims. jimmy used a bassani pipe.

disc - there was no disc set up to change too. the drum didn't bother anyone. of course the 86 disc was much better. it's not like motocross where one needs to stand on the front brake to turn. it was used much less.

200 CC KIT - i don't understand the question i addressed the engine failures in a post above. Did i like the idea, yeah i thought it was cool. the more variants the better. it's liked sleeved down 125 mxer's in motocross. they're a blast.

i'm a little older than that.

mr smijui - i met dozens of japanese here and when they sent me to japan for the 86 tecate project [another nightmare story]. i don't remember them all. i did meet all the top atv engineers and got drunk and sang karaoki with the man in charge of kawi. great story too. Who is he?

85drag250r
01-30-2013, 05:36 AM
it's a free world do what ever makes you happy! i explained my junk statement for you. i certainly could have taken more time to explain it or in my original post. i also could have used a different term but i think i've sufficiently explained myself. however in the interest of keeping peace with some potentially overly sensitive people i will refrain from using it again and find a suitable substitute. they just really ______ me and everyone else off at kawi us with that one,. ok?

PS i see you are from michigan same place i am.

thanks

Its not about overly sensitive people, its simply about showing a little respect to others that do not ride the brand of machine that you like. You seem to get a little defensive when you got called out. I am not trying to start trouble just calling things as I see it

barnett468
01-30-2013, 06:46 AM
Its not about overly sensitive people, its simply about showing a little respect to others that do not ride the brand of machine that you like. You seem to get a little defensive when you got called out. I am not trying to start trouble just calling things as I see it

if you read all my posts very carefully including the one in question you will see jeswinehart had absolutely no reason to say what he did with the tone tone that he did. i know you all love him here that's ok but he could have addressed his concern in a much more courteous, and mature way. i can't imagine any responsible adult especially with children would act that way or want to teach their children to react that way.

i like all machines so it's impossible for me to get defensive about anyone bashing anything i have ridden. there's no logic to it. again it would really be helpful to look at all my posts again.

here's the problem with your comment i like kawi's i designed kawi's i raced kawi's i called one kawi model that i did not approve for production, junk because it was ill handling on an mx course at race speed and did not meet the US kawi corp level of performance for their specific target market. US kawi told me what they expected, i along with the 6 other people i mentioned in the post you must not have read said it was "junk". this was their term also, i didn't invent it.

just ben was already kind enough and man enough to apologize to me but i don't expect some others will.

I had all the respect in the world for dean sundahl and so did everyone at kawi, along with jimmy they were the greatest 3 wheel riders i have ever seen.

i also previously posted i would refrain from using the junk word anymore. i've done all i can.

PS - i was bashing my own brand anyway not a honda! besides i was going to work for honda and raced a suzuki quad too while working at kawi. no one else seems to be bothered by that post however they may have read my other posts too.

Mickey Dunlap
01-30-2013, 03:43 PM
Just want to clear up some things you said about me over on KR's. You kind of made a joke about me not going to the races that Dean,Jimmy,Donnie,Marty ect.ect. did so I won races because none of the top riders were there, so it was easy to win "like you did",which is so far from the truth. I only went to the big races so I could race against the top guys,but I raced the 200 class against Curtis,Tommy,Stevie,Mark,Jimmy ect. ect.,but when Jimmy ,Marty,Coe or any of the other top 10 250 riders raced in the 200 class I won most of the races. I think Jimmy won one race in Alaska,and maybe a heat race, but I won the championships.

Unless you are Mike Preston (head of R&D) I don't know who you are and the others I have talked to don't remember who you were either. Why you don't want to tell anyone you name seems a little odd when any other well known person on here doesn't have a problem with saying who they are. I haven't seen one thing you did that ever went to production.The guys I have met at Kawasaki that do their jet ski/ATV testing are for the most part young kids that are getting their foot in the door and do pretty much what ever they are asked to. Including washing the bikes,changing oil in the police bikes or other wrench turning duties. By the way you write on here I couldn't see you writing up any reports to do with R&D to any of the Japaneses engineers,I know mine had to be done by Reid.I have kept working with Kawasaki over the past years helping them come back to ATV racing,built projects to bring to market like the 700 V-Force,and even ran their GNCC race team. Everyone pretty much knows what I did and keep doing so it's no be secret,and I post pics of everything I have pics of,or it was in the magazines. Back in 97' Kawasaki gave me 5 different quads just to do magazine articles on.

Not trying to bad mouth you but these guys are sharp on here and they know the ATC history pretty good,even corrected me on things I didn't even remember.

Matrix
01-30-2013, 06:46 PM
Why you don't want to tell anyone you name seems a little odd when any other well known person on here doesn't have a problem with saying who they are.

Im Chris Andrews and I like to party, :D

barnett468
01-30-2013, 08:50 PM
Im Chris Andrews and I like to party, :D

i have clearly stated that in my previois posts which you obviously haven't read. i will not waste my time answering it again. you may be well known to someone somewhere but i have never heard of you. perhaps you could tell me what you have done that one might know you for. did you design bikes, work in rd, beat lots of people in the pro class like mickey and jimmy. sorry but i just can't place your name. now if you ever have a reasonable question that is not intentionally designed to incite or provoke someone i would be glad to answer it.

fabiodriven
01-30-2013, 08:58 PM
now if you ever have a reasonable question that is not intentionally designed to incite or provoke someone i would be glad to answer it.

Who the F are you?

Maniac76
01-30-2013, 09:35 PM
Welcome sir

Yamaha_Rules69
01-30-2013, 10:22 PM
Where do you live in Minnesota? I seen in an earlier post you said you were from Michigan, or is that where you were born? Thanks.

barnett468
01-30-2013, 11:42 PM
Just want to clear up some things you said about me over on KR's. You kind of made a joke about me not going to the races that Dean,Jimmy,Donnie,Marty ect.ect. did so I won races because none of the top riders were there, so it was easy to win "like you did",which is so far from the truth. I only went to the big races so I could race against the top guys,but I raced the 200 class against Curtis,Tommy,Stevie,Mark,Jimmy ect. ect.,but when Jimmy ,Marty,Coe or any of the other top 10 250 riders raced in the 200 class I won most of the races. I think Jimmy won one race in Alaska,and maybe a heat race, but I won the championships.

Unless you are Mike Preston (head of R&D) I don't know who you are and the others I have talked to don't remember who you were either. Why you don't want to tell anyone you name seems a little odd when any other well known person on here doesn't have a problem with saying who they are. I haven't seen one thing you did that ever went to production.The guys I have met at Kawasaki that do their jet ski/ATV testing are for the most part young kids that are getting their foot in the door and do pretty much what ever they are asked to. Including washing the bikes,changing oil in the police bikes or other wrench turning duties. By the way you write on here I couldn't see you writing up any reports to do with R&D to any of the Japaneses engineers,I know mine had to be done by Reid.I have kept working with Kawasaki over the past years helping them come back to ATV racing,built projects to bring to market like the 700 V-Force,and even ran their GNCC race team. Everyone pretty much knows what I did and keep doing so it's no be secret,and I post pics of everything I have pics of,or it was in the magazines. Back in 97' Kawasaki gave me 5 different quads just to do magazine articles on.

Not trying to bad mouth you but these guys are sharp on here and they know the ATC history pretty good,even corrected me on things I didn't even remember.



REPLY

below is the quote i responded to that made mickey unhappy. i did not initiate the comment or write the post you see, this is someone elses opinion of mickey who has apparantly either heard mickey talk or has read some interviews by him. i never met or remember seeing mickey at a race. my response was meant to be humorous not intentionally mean i even made fun if myself in my reply. geez

"Lol..... To hear Mickey talk he's always had the fastest machines and has won all the races.

BFWDP"

hey mickey i'll bet you a beer i get at least 10 hate posts for this so here we go.

1. first i APOLOGiZE quite clearly to you for whatever exactly i said that upset you. ok? now since i did not initiate or write the comment above why aren't you blasting the instigator, doesn't seem fair to me.

though i never saw you race i of course heard and read about you and i acknowledge that you were an xln't 200 cc rider where others were not. now this begs the question, the 250 is the premier class, they are much faster and harder to hang on to so since you were obviously so good in the 200 class why didn't you step up to the 250 class. you were a big guy, if 16 year old 100 lb chris white could win there i would guess you could too?

ok i think you have been quite unfair with some of your other comments so i feel i should be allowed to correct the record.

2. from mickey - "Unless you are Mike Preston (head of R&D) I don't know who you are". preston or "prez" as we called him. you either never asked him about me or he has alzheimers or is simply lying which i can't imagine him doing however he doesn't like me. very long peyton place story. i will say nothing bad about him. as far as him being head of r/d he never was while i was there. he started as a motorcycle test rider then got transferred to road race dept. he was hired a month after i was and his mechanic station was 20 feet away from me. i saw him virtually every day the entire time i worked there. the spy photo i mentioned above shows him as the other rider next to me. the article is posted below just google his name. so unless they rehired him there is a flaw in your story. jim was the r/d manager the entire time i was there. ama motocross legend and best friends with world 500 cc champ brad lackey.


ARTICLE

Kawasaki road race team manager Mike Preston was cut loose yesterday at Kawasaki, the long-time Kawasaki employee losing his job as part of a company reorganization that was announced today, according to Kawasaki public relations manager Jan Plessner.

"The company had a reorganization and nearly every division was affected and almost every department as well," Plessner said.

Preston had run the AMA road racing team since it was brought in-house following the Rob Muzzy era of Superbike racing. Prior to being the road race manager, Preston ran the Kawasaki factory Jet Ski team and prior to that he was in the testing department.

Thus far there have been no announcements as to who will replace Preston or if he will be replaced at all. The road race team was farmed out this season to Attack Kawasaki once the decision was made to stop Superbike racing and concentrate on the new Daytona SportBike class"

from mickey - "I don't know who you are and the others I have talked to don't remember who you were either". the other guys you might have talked to there are too new to know me all the old crowd is long gone with the possible exception of the jet ski mechanic/tester. last name starts with L and he is stocky and nearly bald. i love that guy, my best friend there. the following is a list of other people you did not talk to or probably even meet because neither you nor anyone else was allowed into r/d unless either i, jim or someone else in r/d authorized it. i never personnally authorized because no one ever asked me to therefore i probably wasn't there if you ever did get in. i let jimmy and donnie in, and any team green guys that would ask but i was supposed to cover up all new unrealesed atv's prior to that. i also posted earlier that any doubters could call jimmy or donnie. i'm pretty sure that if you are as connected as you say to kawi you could easily get there number and call them. did you read that post? did you try to call them? i din't care that you or some others knoiw who i am. i don't mind telling some stories for those that are xurious however i don't want to make up a sign like your "3WW star mickey dunlap" to get attention. jimmy, donnie and chris have never have done something like that but they were pretty humble too and didn't want or need the notariety and neither do i.

3. short list of additional contacts mostly first names only

jim r/d manager, preston current status unknown, jerry sole new concept designer, "L" from jet ski dept, james team green mgr you should certainly know him, bruce team green mgr before james, strickland jet ski racing mgr organized jet ski stunts for kostner's water world movie, kenny machine shop welder fabricator, dan hired 3 months after me worked ten feet from me everyday untill he left for honda, ken worked directly with me untill he went to honda r/d in 84, gary pr dept went to honda around 86, jim machinist left for honda i think in 85, rob road race engine builder quit to do his own thing, i'll stop for now.

4. from mickey - "I haven't seen one thing you did that ever went to production". this is a ridiculous comment since you don't know who i am. you as well as most everyone here has seen most of the vehicles i worked on. i'll make it simple every kawi every atv produced from 1983-1988 including not only the tecate you were racing but also the 86 model which i was sent to japan to do a simple suspension test on and ended up re engineering at least 40% of the thing. the prototype was "unacceptable for production. i also hand built an entire prototype jet ski, and designed and built the prototype flotation enhanser nose for the "sinking" jet ski in the watercraft "jet ski" fabricating room upstairs that over looks the "prison" courtyard which houses the cinder block dyno/mts room and jet ski test tank. ow. i was also on the police bike team assigned to trying to replicate and subsequently fix the purported high speed wobble they had. ask your good friend preston about that experience. no matter what our differences may have been i have to say that he and jim had huge ____s. we went to riverside raceway and he and jim had to go 100 mph on it then take their hands off the handle bars and hit the end to induce a wobble and then count how many times it wobbled. not for me!

5. from mickey - "By the way you write on here I couldn't see you writing up any reports to do with R&D to any of the Japaneses engineers,I know mine had to be done by Reid". there are two possible reasons you were not allowed to write your own reports. first you are probably not a professional report writer like i was however i don't know if you are or not. secondly they want them to originate from one source that was employed by kawi. the main reason for this is that the japanese engineers get used to reading a particular style of writing and want it to remain consistent. not only did i write all my own technical reports i was so good at it that i was aske by the head of r/d to write some of his as well as danny's and prestons. i also wrote some for jerry the head of new concepts. i included highly detailed drawings and graphs when necessary.

6. from mickey - "I have kept working with Kawasaki over the past years helping them come back to ATV racing,built projects to bring to market like the 700 V-Force", i am not going to dispute because i have no proof to the cxontrary so all i can say for a fact is this. with the exception of the protype t4 and jet ski built along with several other secret concept projects i worked on and built for jerry all protype machines originated in japan without exception. so you suggest you personally built the 700 v-force [from paper drawings to actual machine like i did. all i can say to that is congratulations, since i have exactly the same thing i realize how hard it is. you would have to have access to the machine shop [which i don't doubt] and probably used my area downstairs in r/d. you know the one on the end nearest the rear entrance door unless they reconfigured it since. you should also know rick and norm if they were still there.

7. from mickey - "Everyone pretty much knows what I did and keep doing so it's no be secret,and I post pics of everything" Are you saying you have personal photos of PROTOTYPE NON PRODUCTION vehicles, i'm not talking about pre production vehicles, and those photos are in your in your personal possession [not at kawi] and that you were allowed by kawi to post those on the internet and give them to the magazines? during my time i preston or anyonbe else at kawi would have been fired for doing that!. if your claim is true it is just another reflection of how it has changed since i was there.


8. just ben recently made a comment and was nice enough to explain himself and apologized for it. i accepted his apology. however i'm not going to hold my breath waiting from anyone else including you because i don't want to pass out, no matter how much you might want me too.



9. As far as me going to smaller races so I could win, it wasn’t by design. I would have raced every national I could if I had the time and opportunity however my free time was very little since I was so busy working on things at kawi. I guess you are saying the same thing about jimmy too then since he was at some of the smaller races I went to. Oh I forgot to mention the small mickey thompson series race at Pomona where dean went to cherry pick [since he won] and the first ever anaheim stadium quad race that every local hot shoe went to including some guy by the name of gary denton I think, or the small quad series race that i think was called the "golden state series" with all the fastest guys there including that pesky gary denton guy. Oh and I forgot to mention again that little annual perris gp race that Honda thought was so small and insignificant that they brought out all their best available top riders and their big fancy truck with their big huge pop up with space heaters all over and their dancing girls [I actually liked that part] lol, while jimmie, Donnie, james [you should know him] and I had the standard box van and a tiny little pop up that barely had enough room for all of us plus part of the bike and no fancy heaters. The same race that jimmie holeshot and him, Donnie and I won by such a huge margin we had time to eat lunch our before Honda crossed the line? And those little saddleback tt races that marty hart and the whole honda contingency would go to? Yep I did those too oh that’s right most of those were 250 cc races not 200’s.


i hope in the end we can be friends however if you chose not to it's obviously your free choice.

thanks "no name"

M.Pargiello
01-30-2013, 11:56 PM
Mickey didn't pick his user status, it was given to him just like Mike Coe, Driscoll, and a few others by the people who run the website. So it's not a dig for attention, it is clearly earned.

Why do you have such a hard time identifying yourself? I just see you dodging the question and throwing out partial names of other people. Not being a dick, just an honest question. It won't matter to me if you do give your name or not because chances are that I still won't have a clue.

barnett468
01-31-2013, 12:11 AM
Welcome sir

Thank you i apporeciate it. it's a bit more exciting than i expected! don't know what i did but i'm sure there will be plenty that will tell me!

barnett468
01-31-2013, 12:33 AM
from fabiodriven - "
Who the F are you?"

wow nice fabiodriven, an incendiary question and you were even able to include the suggestion of a profanity in it [or did you just forget how to spell the rest of the word? did you think of that all by yourself or did you plagiarize it from the lyrics of the who song titled "who are you" off their who's next album? lol

just kidding

Mickey Dunlap
01-31-2013, 12:49 AM
I come on here to share with these guys some of my past 3 wheeling stories for fun and they seem to like it so we all have fun. I'm not going to get into a who's dick is bigger thing with you because I don't care.You just seem a little odd and that's why people are saying the things they are. I called Donnie today like you said to do,and he didn't know,or remember you. That's a little odd,since I told him what race you teamed up with him and Jimmy at, but that's what he said. He told me about Mike being the head or R&D,so talk to him about that. Didn't call Jimmy because he's harder to get a hold of.So it is what it is,carry on.

barnett468
01-31-2013, 02:02 AM
I come on here to share with these guys some of my past 3 wheeling stories for fun and they seem to like it so we all have fun. I'm not going to get into a who's dick is bigger thing with you because I don't care.You just seem a little odd and that's why people are saying the things they are. I called Donnie today like you said to do,and he didn't know,or remember you. That's a little odd,since I told him what race you teamed up with him and Jimmy at, but that's what he said. He told me about Mike being the head or R&D,so talk to him about that. Didn't call Jimmy because he's harder to get a hold of.So it is what it is,carry on.

hello mickey

donnie either must have fallen and hit his head or he has alzheimers. what is wrong with him you just might not have explained it to him well. i'll tell you what, if you're that desparate contact jimmie. i'll also email donnie and fix it for you if you want jimmie would be better to ask though. shoot me donnies email in a pm and i can do it tonight. once again preston was NOT ever head of r/d while i was there. donnie didn't even know preston that i know of so i think he may be confusing him with me. it also sounds like he might have been a bit short with you, are you two not on the best of terms? maybe he doesn't like you because you beat him in a 200 race or something.

i'm glad you don't want to make a contest out of it i never even mentioned you here, i've just been happily answering posts and then you chime in. you claim you personally bvuilt the 700v ok i never said you didn't but you come on here and accuse me of this and that and make sarchastic remarks for what reason? i did what i did at kawi and you did what you did whatever that was, i don't care what you did there good for you but for some absolutely totally strange reason you are obsessed about me and my work at kawi and i am clueless as to why. as far as racing goes i'm pretty sure you could easily beat me on a 200 cc so what i have NO EGO to satisfy so i don't care. i am truly happy for you. as i previously posted partying was first racing was second. i gave 1000 percent when i rode but i didn't train however i didn't need to since i was riding 3 days a week at kawi or more. so while i was out chasin girls and drinkin beers you were probably completely dedicated to racing because that was your focus it was not mine.


you say i seem a bit odd, well i'll go along with that. i would say that goat breker and jimmy weinert were a bit odd too so we got along very well.

OK so now i have addressed all your comments and answered all your questions but one because like i said it won't help you. now i still have a few questions you haven't answered. if you wouldn't mind.

1. why aren't you attacking the person that made the original comment to you instead of that you come on here and try to make me look bad why?

2. what about your buddy preston he's just a phone call away? but like i said he doesn't like me so if he has any negative comments they should be taken with an entire bottle of salt.

3. WHEN EXACTLY WAS PRESTON PURPORTEDLY HEAD OF R/D, DOESN'T ANYBODY KNOW?

4. are you saying you don't know who the mgr of team green was while jimmie, donnie and chris rode for them?

5. you also forgot to answer my questions about the prototype photos and the 700v you say you built. just curious about those things.

6. why is it so hard to get a hold of jimmie, he has a phone just call him and he'll call you right back if he wants to talk to you. i'm pretty sure if either james or i left him a message he'd call back pretty quick. maybe he doesn't like you because you beat him on a 200 cc too, i don't know. lol

7. when did you say you signed with team green and what year did you go to team green at the building in irvine/lake forest?

i sure know a lot about kawi for not being who i am and for not ever working there don't i? lol to quote you, "it is what it is".

thanks "the unnamed one"

barnett468
01-31-2013, 02:31 AM
Mickey didn't pick his user status, it was given to him just like Mike Coe, Driscoll, and a few others by the people who run the website. So it's not a dig for attention, it is clearly earned.

Why do you have such a hard time identifying yourself? I just see you dodging the question and throwing out partial names of other people. Not being a dick, just an honest question. It won't matter to me if you do give your name or not because chances are that I still won't have a clue.



hello mpargielo.

i will gladly answer your question. i explained in a few earlier post why i don't want to reveal my name. the real question should be that since i can guarantee you that no one will know it except for those it will serve you no purpose anyway.

i did not know that about his star but my point is clear he could have them take it down if he wanted but he doesn't he likes the attention. and yes i mentioned in my post that he was fast. he certainly deserves the recognition if he wants it!

the partial names are to protect them from insane people calliing kawi or otherwise trying to find them and bother them. mickey can ask preston who they were, just him knowing is enough.

85drag250r
01-31-2013, 05:36 AM
hello mpargielo.

i will gladly answer your question. i explained in a few earlier post why i don't want to reveal my name. the real question should be that since i can guarantee you that no one will know it except for those it will serve you no purpose anyway.

i did not know that about his star but my point is clear he could have them take it down if he wanted but he doesn't he likes the attention. and yes i mentioned in my post that he was fast. he certainly deserves the recognition if he wants it!

the partial names are to protect them from insane people calliing kawi or otherwise trying to find them and bother them. mickey can ask preston who they were, just him knowing is enough.

Just my opinion, but you seem to be the one with the "hostile" replies when members of this board ask simple questions.

barnett468
01-31-2013, 06:00 AM
Just my opinion, but you seem to be the one with the "hostile" replies when members of this board ask simple questions.

well i told mickey i'd get at least 10 hate mails. i don't like to repeat myself. all i ask is that people read ALL my replies before jumping to any conclusions and making any critical comments . i suggest you do the same. friendly questions get extremely friendly answers unreasonable antagonistic ones may or may not. i suppose that you are another one that thinks people have no right to privacy and you continue to try and force your will on them. nice, good lesson to teach the kids! i never initiate hostilities and never reply with hostility. i see no point in it. i just say it like it is, interpret it how you will. guess i'm just too old and impatient to play peoples games.

should i add you to my friends list?

85drag250r
01-31-2013, 06:52 AM
well i told mickey i'd get at least 10 hate mails. i don't like to repeat myself. all i ask is that people read ALL my replies before jumping to any conclusions and making any critical comments . i suggest you do the same. friendly questions get extremely friendly answers unreasonable antagonistic ones may or may not. i suppose that you are another one that thinks people have no right to privacy and you continue to try and force your will on them. nice, good lesson to teach the kids! i never initiate hostilities and never reply with hostility. i see no point in it. i just say it like it is, interpret it how you will. guess i'm just too old and impatient to play peoples games.

should i add you to my friends list?

I was not rude to you on my last 2 posts, I made a simple observation from my point of view on how you are coming across on this board.

The only thing I have seen so far is that you are really good at playing the victim, trying to make it look like every one is picking on you.

Have a nice day

barnett468
01-31-2013, 07:02 AM
I was not rude to you on my last 2 posts, I made a simple observation from my point of view on how you are coming across on this board.

The only thing I have seen so far is that you are really good at playing the victim, trying to make it look like every one is picking on you.

Have a nice day


i thank you for your perceptive observations Dr Freud. anyone that reads all the posts and understands their content can clearly see that there are many people that seem serious about asking fun questions unlike some others, therefore since virtually 95% of the posters have real questions i obviously couldn't possibly think that EVERYONE is picking on me and since i don't know how to "play the victim" that's obviously not possible either. thank you i feel much better now Dr, same time next week?

thanks, have a nice day yourself!

fabiodriven
01-31-2013, 11:06 AM
from fabiodriven - ""

wow nice fabiodriven, an incendiary question and you were even able to include the suggestion of a profanity in it [or did you just forget how to spell the rest of the word? did you think of that all by yourself or did you plagiarize it from the lyrics of the who song titled "who are you" off their who's next album? lol

just kidding

Thank you for the reply.

I still don't know who you are but in all honesty it's not all that important to me. If you said your name I'm sure I wouldn't recognize it anyways as I'm not as well versed as some of these gentlemen in trike racing history. I just wanted to know if you were who you said you were. I may end up being the fool here, it's too early to tell, but after some of your most recent posting I'm thinking you may be the real deal.

I'll probably catch some flak here for saying this, but I'm used to that. I'm not here to win any popularity contests. I've been watching this thread from the beginning and my personal opinion is that you've not had the greeting you deserve. I feel as though you've been prodded and ganged up on wrongfully. I don't feel this is any way to welcome the man who potentially could have invented the Tecate. So from myself and on behalf of our New England riding group, I would like to welcome you to this community. I was a Tecate man for many years and thoroughly enjoyed whipping up on almost every Yamaha and Honda to try and beat me. The first generation of Tecates was always my cup of tea and is an absolute work of genius in my opinion. I am still part owner of one that my friend and I are converting to a 500 with an 86 KX500 engine.

I hope you are who you say you are and I hope you continue to add to our site.

M.Pargiello
01-31-2013, 11:18 AM
Its not like anything you may have done for Kawasaki in the 80's is anything close to top secret anymore. The technology from that time period has been surpassed quite a few times. I just don't see the reason for secrecy when everyone else from that era has no problem telling who they are. No one is going to stalk the other workers from 1980's era kawasaki. Most have never been heard of, and I'm sure that no one here is the "1980 mechanic stalker type". And if you write anything close to how you type, then I really have a hard time believing you ever wrote any type of report for Kawasaki. Just my point of view.

That being said, I agree with everything fabio has posted. You do deserve a better welcome than you have received. I would also like to personally thank you for the Tecate if everything you say is true!

Mickey Dunlap
01-31-2013, 12:01 PM
Like I said I'm not going to play this game. I didn't even read all the posts because it's just a bunch of ramblings to me. I spent all the time I care to yesterday calling Donnie,and if someone you teamed up with didn't remember you,it's not worth my time going any further. Have a nice day.

barnett468
01-31-2013, 09:36 PM
Thank you for the reply.

I still don't know who you are but in all honesty it's not all that important to me. If you said your name I'm sure I wouldn't recognize it anyways as I'm not as well versed as some of these gentlemen in trike racing history. I just wanted to know if you were who you said you were. I may end up being the fool here, it's too early to tell, but after some of your most recent posting I'm thinking you may be the real deal.

I'll probably catch some flak here for saying this, but I'm used to that. I'm not here to win any popularity contests. I've been watching this thread from the beginning and my personal opinion is that you've not had the greeting you deserve. I feel as though you've been prodded and ganged up on wrongfully. I don't feel this is any way to welcome the man who potentially could have invented the Tecate. So from myself and on behalf of our New England riding group, I would like to welcome you to this community. I was a Tecate man for many years and thoroughly enjoyed whipping up on almost every Yamaha and Honda to try and beat me. The first generation of Tecates was always my cup of tea and is an absolute work of genius in my opinion. I am still part owner of one that my friend and I are converting to a 500 with an 86 KX500 engine.

I hope you are who you say you are and I hope you continue to add to our site.



Hello fabiodriven


Darn you, I was expecting a different response. There goes my fun!

Please no jor, stop, don’t do it, you’re committing social suicide. You will be ostraciszed by your tribe and put on an ice float and pushed off into the sea without any beer and cheesy poof’s

You have shown yourself to be an HONORABLE, RATIONAL, MATURE AND REASONABLE person. You should not care what others think of you, you are not defined by their opinions of you. As long as you personally know you have acted with GOOD intent and maintain your integrity that’s all that matters isn’t it?
It’s clear that unlike some others here that you decided to take a different path than them. You took my reasonable and very simple suggestion of carefully reading many of my posts before jumping to conclusions and have come to a much different opinion than the other few “haters” which your comments suggest you have been subject to yourself here.

Unfortunately some people idolize others just because they look up to them for being “famous”. They all want to be liked by the “famous” guy, because it makes them feel better about themselves, and because these people are “famous” than what they say has to be true doesn’t it? Just like Lindsay lohan and kim kardashian. A pair of great role models don’t you think?

There are many top atv racers I don’t so it would obviously be unreasonable to comment much about them however the more they talk the more one can learn about them if one wants to. I do know this, I have never seen or heard jimmy or Donnie say anything intentionally derogatory out of jealousy or meanness about anyone and I’m sure there are some kids out there that look up to them.
I appreciate your warm welcome but would like to say that I think everyone should receive the same whether they might be famous or not but I’m sure that’s what you meant. If anything I think the younger people need the warmest welcome of all for the the future health and growth of the sport and to encourage them to stick around and see that motorcycle, riding whatever type it is, is FUN. I don’t think us old people need to be coddled that much but it’s still nice.
Don’t worry, I am EXACTLY who I say I am and you will not find the belief you have placed in me misguided. If one reads some of my posts CAREFULLY it’s pretty easy to see that this would be way too much stuff to make up don’t you think? I can tell you stories that even I find hard to believe. Life was off the hook back in those days!

PS – I want to make something clear to everyone. I did NOT invent the tecate 3 wheeler. I never said I did and never even remotely suggest I did. I was assigned the job of improving the PROTOTYPE to a level of reliability and performance that met kawis and my own level of expectations for the intended target market which was a high performance racing/recreational machine which was able to compete with and hopefully beat the Honda. Results – jimmie white #1 on a first year bike. I can tell that story if anyone wants, It’s kinda cool. I did however engineer and hand build the very first t4. It was not the basic recreational based vehicle that the production model turned out to be.

thanks again "the unnamed one"

barnett468
01-31-2013, 09:42 PM
Was there ever any discussion of Kawi building a 500 tecate.

hello aec300r thanks for the question

No. I was asked that question in an earlier post though if you want to check out my full reply. bassically neither kawi or i thought it would be practical or "safe". it would be fun thought just up untill the time it spit you off and drove over you again and again and again with the throttle stuck wide open.

barnett468
01-31-2013, 10:22 PM
[QUOTE=M.Pargiello;1192349]Its not like anything you may have done for Kawasaki in the 80's is anything close to top secret anymore. The technology from that time period has been surpassed quite a few times. I just don't see the reason for secrecy when everyone else from that era has no problem telling who they are. No one is going to stalk the other workers from 1980's era kawasaki. Most have never been heard of, and I'm sure that no one here is the "1980 mechanic stalker type". And if you write anything close to how you type, then I really have a hard time believing you ever wrote any type of report for Kawasaki. Just my point of view. That being said, I agree with everything fabio has posted. You do deserve a better welcome than you have received. I would also like to personally thank you for the Tecate if everything you say is true

hello mpaargiello

thanks for your reply you will find that much of my reply to fabio will apply here so i will address the main item that doesn't which is a few peoples doubt of my report writing comments. i will hopefully make myself very clear. all my statements are true and i personally don't care WHO might think they are not. i choose not to associate with "doubters" and "haters" and play their childish games. i do not care what they think nor should i would you?

I have been the victim of stalking before it was not nice for myself or my family so unless you have been there you wouldn't understand my caution.

i am not concerned about commenting on any secret projects now at all, never said i was i merely said that at the time i couldn't take or release personal photos of ANY non production product. i obeyed their rules therefore i don't have any to share. whish i did, if i had disobeyed my confidentiality agreement i would probably gladly post them now, why not?. now mickey claims that he has such photos and wa sallowed to keep them and give them to magazines and post them on the internet while the project was ongoing. he has still not answered my specific question to him regarding this has he? maybe kawi just doesn't care like they used to. i don't know aboubt it but i think they would.


the japanese and us kawi obviously thought my technical rewport writing skills were better than most others there so if it was good enough for them that's all that matters isn't it? No one here has ever seen a technical report that i wrote therefore any opinios as to my ability to write a technical report sufficient enough for the japanese or the overall quality of the writing contained within such said report is simply pure unneccessary speculation propogated by those that want to find that tinest "flaw" in the armor.

there's a few different styles of writing three of them are technical report style writing, creative wriiting [stories, books, poems, music lyrics movie scripts etc.] and basic conversational type writing. just because one is exhibiting one particular style over another at any time for whatever reason, in no way precludes ones potential ability for writing in another style does it? since i am not writing a technical report here than why should i exhibit those skills? i'm just here to TRY and have fun!

if you are simply referring to the fact that i don't capitalize everything or possibly spell everything correctly etc then that is a different story. i do this because i'm not 25 anymore and it is just much easier for me to do things that way at the moment.

I appreciate your apology and accept your welcome. thank you.

PS as i mentioned in my reply to mickey, i do agree with one comment he made which is "you just seem a bit odd to me". perhaps i am, so what, it's not harmfull is it? if everyone was exactly the same the world would seem pretty boring wouldn't it. what would life be like if when we turned on the tv and there was not another new story about poor lindsay lohans most recent trials and tribulation's?

thanks again

barnett468
01-31-2013, 11:29 PM
Well mickey has signed off for now and mickey lovers here will always hate me other reasonable people that don’t idolize him and simply view him as just another human being with the same potential flaws that most of us suffer from who just so happened to be able to ride a 200cc trike fast will most certainly have a different opinion of him.

I have been around racing and “stars” for a long time, almost all the ones I’ve met were very nice and no matter who they were they ALL realized that because they were a public star they were expexted to live up to a higher standard of behavior whether they liked it or not and whether they felt it was fair or not. even bob hannah who was one of the least user friendly people to some tried to be accurate with his commnents regarding others and opinions of particular situations and was still a responsible role model.

I think that it is unfortunate that mickey clearly did not live up to this standard in this particular situation and decided to take the “low road” instead of the “high” one. The reason for my opinion is this, he is most certainly still a significant name and star in the 3 wheel world and whether he likes it or not there are still younger riders that look up to him and whose behavior might be influenced by him. I think he still has a social obligation to set an exemplary example for impressionable people.

Fame comes with social obligations and responsibilities like it or not.

For some unknown reasons that are beginning to become suspiciously apparent he has still refused to answer even ONE of my innocuous questions. This begs the question, why? What could he be trying to hide if anything? At the moment it looks like we’ll never know. I, on the other hand answered all his questions and replied to all his comments in very specific detail save but one which is a privacy issue. Below are the simple questions I asked.

I'm beginning to think that he no longer has contact with his "good buddy" mike preston for whatever reason or that neither preston, jimmmie or donnie want to be bothered by him. Neither jimmie, donnie, preston, or team green atv racing manager james ever even mentioned his name in our conversations the entire time i was there. I probably would have asked him to do some tecate testing if i knew he was around.

you say i seem a bit odd, well i'll go along with that. i would say that goat breker and jimmy weinert were a bit odd too so we got along very well.

OK so now i have addressed all your comments and answered all your questions but one because like i said it won't help you. now i still have a few questions you haven't answered. if you wouldn't mind.

1. why aren't you attacking the person that made the original comment to you, instead of that you come on here and try to make me look bad, why?

2. what about asking your buddy preston about me he's just a phone call away? but like i said he doesn't like me so if he has any negative comments they should be taken with an entire bottle of salt.

3. WHEN EXACTLY WAS PRESTON PURPORTEDLY HEAD OF R/D, DOESN'T ANYBODY KNOW?

4. are you saying you don't know who the mgr of team green was while jimmie, donnie and chris rode for them?

5. you also forgot to answer my questions about the prototype photos and the 700v you say you built. just curious about those things.

6. why is it so hard to get a hold of jimmie, he has a phone just call him and he'll call you right back if he wants to talk to you. i'm pretty sure if either james or i left him a message he'd call back pretty quick. maybe he doesn't like you because you beat him on a 200 cc too, i don't know. lol

7. when did you say you signed with team green and what year did you go to team green at the building in irvine/lake forest?

thanks "the unnamed one"

poohbee1
01-31-2013, 11:51 PM
what happened to this 274 # ,removable subframe i think., little hubs so you could run 8 inch wheels, no fender braces that crack the fenders instantly when rolled. It seems like everything that happened from here to production was bad.162107

M.Pargiello
01-31-2013, 11:55 PM
Don't worry about my comment on your grammar, just stating an observation from my end :) I can see how typing on the Internet does not require the same level of correctness that r&d reports would. You definitely have some stories that absolutely cannot be made up it seems, so keep sharing! And definitely know a little much for someone who is just bs'ing so it's all good in my book. I wish I was around a handful of years earlier, I would have had a blast in those days! Once again, welcome and I hope to hear more :)

barnett468
02-01-2013, 12:16 AM
162087 what happened to this 274 # ,removable subframe i think., little hubs so you could run 8 inch wheels, no fender braces that crack the fenders instantly when rolled. It seems like everything that happened from here to production was bad.

hello poohbee1 thanks for the question

i'm sorry but i don' quite understand your question and can't see the photo you are trying to show me but i think this will answer your question. japan never sent me a removable subframe prototype model and never told me about one. i never made one and was never asked to. if in fact such a prototype ever existed which is basically impossible the it would have been made in japan where it would have to have been stolen to get into public hands. thus would be impossible there. i was in japan it can't happen. this leads to the most likely conclusion. someone made it here in their shop or garage and if someone claims it is a kawi produced factory prototype then the owner or someone that owned it somewhere along the line is either grossly missinformed or outright lying.

i was there from beginning to the end of the t3 project and i was absolutely the only one involved with the atv's in the US during that time. it absolutely would have had to go through me and it never did therefore it basically never existed.

PS Prototypes never had a VIN on them, there wouldn't be a reason for it. if tgis vehicle is missing one then either the steering head was changed due to a wreck or it was welded over and sanded smooth. Vehicles with no vin are typically stolen!

thanks again send ne a bigger photo for fun if you can.

poohbee1
02-01-2013, 12:55 AM
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6552&d=1108426566 I see that it is not removable now I think I was wrong

barnett468
02-01-2013, 01:48 AM
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6552&d=1108426566 I see that it is not removable now I think I was wrong

hello poohbe1

thanks for checking it out more and posting what you found. nothing wrong with making a mistake, yhe mistake is just not correcting it when one can.

you got a pretty good answer out of me though didn't you. it might have been kind of a cool idea and hopefully saved some weight if it could have lightened the bike and still been strong enough. i would have liked that project!.

I actually had prototype one of a kind front forks and triple clamps on mine for a short while. they saved 8 lbs. some rookie jerk crashed me during practice at the la colliseum and they got bent. i almost cried. put on the stock spares and still rode my mangled bike and body to second place! missed first by 30 feet, darn.


thanks again

barnett468
02-01-2013, 02:20 AM
HELLO FABIODRIVEN

I just two more things.

1. RE T3 500 - Your absolutely nuts, i love it! lol. if the vibration doesn't kill ya the acceleration certainly will. i'll bet you a case of beer you can't accelerate at wot. it will remove your arms from their sockets if it even ever half way hooks up, then it will wheelie over backwards and crush you mercilessly. make sure to get a neck brace and a bible, oh and don't forget to sign over your life insurance policy to your wife and tell the kids you love em! lol

2. i see you have a little klt 160. this brings back memories of water testing horrors. i'll be happy to tell you about them if you or anyone wants. i actually drown a tecate doing a water test.

thanks again

barnett468
02-01-2013, 07:36 AM
Barnett. Did you ever attend any races at Pine Lake (Ashtabula). Back in the haydays. Last year they ran a couple threewheeler races. Jackie Meadows raced a TPC 450r Honda I dont know if you are familiar with these trikes they are built from a honda 450r quad . Jackie won the race in open class.There was a vintage class for the 250s aswell.The races are on youtube.

helo atc300r

urortunately no. i was pretty much stuck in so cal as far as the races went. i will definitely check out the youtube though. love to watch the races on there. was anybody big there besides jackie?

thanks

Mosh
02-01-2013, 08:18 AM
There is a huge movement of resurgence in trike racing up around the great lakes region that has even yeilded sanctioned points classes in Ohio and,? even has landed the trike racers on some AMA associated tracks. While verifiable trike racing history is very cool and has its place in the sport the new era is making history not only in sheer volumes of legitimate trike races and participants, but also modern machinery for trikers. There is hours of moderen trike racing on youtube over the last 7-8 years.

poohbee1
02-01-2013, 11:38 AM
found a picture i think you will be able to see 162108 this one looks a little more race ready than the production model whats the story behind it are those the triples your talking about?

fabiodriven
02-01-2013, 01:35 PM
HELLO FABIODRIVEN

I just two more things.

1. RE T3 500 - Your absolutely nuts, i love it! lol. if the vibration doesn't kill ya the acceleration certainly will. i'll bet you a case of beer you can't accelerate at wot. it will remove your arms from their sockets if it even ever half way hooks up, then it will wheelie over backwards and crush you mercilessly. make sure to get a neck brace and a bible, oh and don't forget to sign over your life insurance policy to your wife and tell the kids you love em! lol

2. i see you have a little klt 160. this brings back memories of water testing horrors. i'll be happy to tell you about them if you or anyone wants. i actually drown a tecate doing a water test.

thanks again

We're hoping the 500 will do just that! I thought I was being innovative when I first started working on my 500, but then I found this site and realized there were guys doing a lot more than I was! Before 2008, I thought I was the only triker that had the bug as bad as I do. Now I know different!

I would love to hear some stories on you drowning trikes. My little KLT is probably one of the best examples left of that bike anywhere (that I am aware of). It barely gets used though. It's good and bad at the same time.

barnett468
02-02-2013, 12:19 AM
found a picture i think you will be able to see 162108 this one looks a little more race ready than the production model whats the story behind it are those the triples your talking about?

Hello poohbee1

Thanks again for the question however first i'm curious, how old are you and what kind of bike do you have exactly? i think your user name is great where did you come up with it?

Thanks for the photo it blows up nicely. If you are asking about a removable subframe again this bike does not have one. the appearance is deceptive!. the big bolt you see in the center is actually the suspension rocker pivot bolt and not a sub frsme attaching bolt. It is a steel rear loop that is welded to the rest of the frame. I can tell you this about the bike and the photo however. Iam 99.9999999 % positive that this is a photo of the pre production unit i recieved from japan. this is why i say this,

1. this obviously a professional photo done in a studio.

2. The floor and backdrop are 100 % identical to the one in kawis photo studio.

3. I personally took the pre production unit upstairs to the photo studio in our large elevator to be photographed.

4. They put the vehicle id on the floor in front of the bike.

5. the photo has 3 holes in the top. this was designed to go into a promotional 3 ring binder that either our pr dept or the dealers used. Since it is in the public domain it would have to be a dealer item.

Yes this one does look race ready however it is is a box stock unmodified production model. I engineered the prototype i tested to perform as well as possible at a high level on a very hard rough track. i did this for the following reasons, i liked rough tracks, it hadn't been focused on before by honda and it was more challenging than building it primarily for sand dune use. honda used a different approach. i and others at kawi tested the two stock for stock at saddleback and perris raceway mx track as well as other sand type locations. the kawi substantially outperformed the honda on the mx tracks. they were more similar on the sand. both were a blast on sand! the honda can be made to perform better than it does stock on an mx track however right out of the box ours was better. the asthetics [look] of the bike was done completely by the japanese. i honestly was not much of an artist. We designed it to be basically race ready out of the box. Looks pretty mean doesn't it? Just so i don't get hate mail i also like the look of the honda, they make some beautiful bikes. unfortunately kawi developed a reputation for designing bikes that had a bit more industrial look, kinda like an old tractor. they worked very well but occasionally looked crude.

the forks and triple clamps i had were one of a kind and were on my 84/85 bike not the 86. they never went into production. i think kawi japan preferred to take the safer route with the original thicker tubes. more resistant to bending in a crash. that's a reasonable decision. bummer though. the originals on the 86 proto type had a 4 mm smaller od. they were very flimsy however kawi japan never realized this untill i told them while testing it in japan. the whole bike was a flexy flier. they called this design "uniform flexibilty" i called it uniform "b_______t". sorry don't talk like that if you're young, you should wait untill you get old and crabby! Anyway the reason they didn't know is because they did not have professional testers to ride it and their test riders were very slow. i trained one for them and he was decent but they didn't use him. strange.

thanks again.

barnett468
02-02-2013, 03:17 AM
We're hoping the 500 will do just that! I thought I was being innovative when I first started working on my 500, but then I found this site and realized there were guys doing a lot more than I was! Before 2008, I thought I was the only triker that had the bug as bad as I do. Now I know different!

I would love to hear some stories on you drowning trikes. My little KLT is probably one of the best examples left of that bike anywhere (that I am aware of). It barely gets used though. It's good and bad at the same time.


Hello fabiofriven

Thanks for the reply. So you want a water test story great. I’ll give you the best one.
I had been at kawi for just a short while and we had been doing some dry weather testing on the klt 250. So one day I come in and my partner at the time said kawi needs us to do a severe extended waterproof test on the klt so I said ok well what exactly does that entail and he said they want us to try and drown it until it stops, I said ok for how long, he said 5 days and I said oh, nice. So my partner made a plan

We headed off to the san Gabriel mountains in the middle of winter to ride it in a creek/river that ran through there. Well we got there and the river was running well at maybe 8 mph. it was about 25 feet wide varying in depth from 1 ½’ to maybe 2 ½’ feet. It had a sandy bottom with a ton of big rocks mostly about a 1 ½’ below the surface. So I geared up in my leathers/ rain suit and boots and rode in. well guess what it was a nippy 58 degrees outside and the water was around f___n cold degrees. Well going downstream with the current wasn’t all that bad except for thise annoying rocks but then I had to turn around and go upstream. Yeah I just couldn’t get out, go upstream and try it again oh no. my partner said they want “us” [yeah “us” right, how about just me], to drown it so against the xurrent I go. Well do the math, water at 8 mph me at 3 mph [when possible] makes 11 mph through 1 ½’ of water. Doesn’t sound like much one says, go ahead try it some time in a frozen rocky creek for 100 yards at a time.

Anyway I found out three major things on my first pass, first I didn’t like cold water in cold weather, secondly the son of a ____ wouldn’t drown, lastly it wouldn’t sink therefore I couldn’t intentionally sink it to end the test! It actually sort of floated a bit in some areas due to the big balloon tires creating buoyancy. So up and down I go for about 4 hours. Yes 4 hours with periodic rest stops. Now at the end of the day I was suddenly realizing that because it didn’t miss a beat I would possibly have to do this for 4 more days! Oh my god! Well that’s not the end of the story. We get back to the unheated shop, I change, and leave my boots next to my desk. I come in the next morning, grab my now frozen still wet boots and we head off again. Of course when we got there I had to put my still frozen wet boots on. Ever have to do that for 5 days in a row cause the stupid bike you were riding refused to die?


86 TECATE WATER TEST

This story is much shorter. kawi asked me to do a moderate wet test on the 86 t3. They knew it would drown under severe conditions and they didn’t design it to be a submarine, go buy a klt if you want one of those. So this was easier we took it about 25 milesay to a place called prado dam in Anaheim. There was a shallow river that ran from the base of the dam. We got there unloaded and rode it in and oiut of the river staying near the edge where it was shallow. Well I guess I got a little zealous once because it wouldn’t drown either under our conditions. Well guess what, I found that the tecate didn’t float quite as well as the klt and I sank it deep enough to fill the motor with water tgrough the airbox and it died in the river. We had to drag it out and get the water out. We then removed the tank turned it upside down with the plug out and turned it over a few times, turned it right side up then upsidedownone last time. We then sprayed cleaner in it jacked it over to remove any remaing water, fixed the air filter and tried to start it. Well we only had to clean the plug onbe more time and it fired right up so off we rode again.

I have another hilarious story about doing an accidental severe water resistant test on a brand new $4000.00 yamaha outboard motor if anyone wants to read it.

Thanks again



thanks again

not for publication

midsouthtrikes
02-02-2013, 10:05 AM
Great stories, I can read stories like that all day long. Keep posting!

barnett468
02-02-2013, 11:29 PM
Great stories, I can read stories like that all day long. Keep posting!

hello midsouthtrikes

thanks for the post i appreciate your comments. feel free to ask me anything you can think of. i have lots of stories including some pg rated on the road ones, but everyone has those. i don't want to just randomly post unsolicited stories. but if you ask i'll gladly tell you what i can.

thanks again

barnett468
02-02-2013, 11:53 PM
this topic came up thought i would post my response here. the guy raced a stroked klt 110.



YOU RACED A POWEROLL STROKER 110? That is absolutely hilarious, i would have LOVED to do that. they never had such a thing here. I spent some many hours on that thing testing it for kawi at WOT i probably could have been national champ if there is such a thing for a 110.

how much big it stroke it too?

what did you think of the optional hand clutch?

i can tell you some testing stories about it if you want, but i'd love to hear some of your racing stories. we actually had big wheel races here. it was just one class and lots of pro's intermediates and novices would race together and smash into each other as much as possible and the last survivor would win. last place could often go to first place by simply staying out of the mayhem. the true winner was never who crossed the finish first, rather it was the one that crashed the most people!

thanks again

poohbee1
02-03-2013, 01:01 AM
162166 a honda 250 now because kawi parts are to hard and to expensive to get. I had an 86 and 87 tecate but sold them around 1988 after the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro hit the fan. Im 42 and probably to old to be riding these things but it always puts a smile on my face. poohbee1 i cant remember. thanks for the info

barnett468
02-03-2013, 01:31 AM
162166 a honda 250 now because kawi parts are to hard and to expensive to get. I had an 86 and 87 tecate but sold them around 1988 after the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro hit the fan. Im 42 and probably to old to be riding these things but it always puts a smile on my face. poohbee1 i cant remember. thanks for the info

hello poohbee1

thanks for the info. how did you like the tecate's?

yeah i'm sure kawi parts are much harder to find but as long as you have a good kawi or even honda to start with you shouldn't need parts for a millenium.

You're never too old to ride just too old too fall off.

Very nice looking bike!

barnett468
02-12-2013, 06:52 AM
hello

i was tryi

barnett468
03-21-2013, 02:38 AM
Hello atc300r


Thanks for your question.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about Tim Helter. I never met him. I left Kawi in 88. The only Team Green riders I ever saw and knew personally were Jimmie, Donnie and Chris. Team Green was about 100 feet away from my area so I wasn't always aware who was over there unless they called me to tell me on occasion.

If you can let me know more specifically what info you are looking for on Jimmies bike I may be able to answer your question better. I don't know a lot.

.
I can't access your photos probably because I'm a "newbie" can you post them?


The first quad Jimmie raced was the Suzuki, see video below.


Loaned Chris my 84 t3 for one race at Corona after his broke. He pulled the holeshot, had a 100 foot lead by the 3rd turn flew so far over the huge doubles he landed on flat ground and threw the chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPuMOo_fTCg

C.J
03-25-2013, 01:24 PM
I own an 87 LT250R and seeing that LT take the holeshot from the Honda made me giggle like a school girl LOL

maxdallasfan
03-25-2013, 08:02 PM
The original John Deere Gator was a klt. Did kawi retrofit the dump box and extra two wheels, or did John Deere do this? Can these items be removed to return the klt to normalcy?


166003

barnett468
03-26-2013, 12:11 AM
Hello

Sorry I can't help you there I have no clue. The only KLT's I know of are 3 wheelers, the only JD GATORS I know of are 4 wheelers. With the exception of racks, Kawasaki never tested ANY accessories on an ATV while I was there so I know little if nothing about the accessories other than what I saw in the catalog..

The only other accessory they ever tested while I was there was there was the front flotation "enhancer" for a Jet ski which I was assigned to design.

barnett468
03-26-2013, 12:15 AM
kAWI never would have gotten involved in retro fitting any other mfg's parts or kits while I was there.

Thanks for the question, sorry I wasn't much help.

JasonB
03-26-2013, 08:50 AM
in for more stories and responses! Thanks for joining!

barnett468
03-26-2013, 09:59 AM
Hello JasonB


Thanks for the kind words.

Been here for 10 minutes now tryin to enlarge your avatar photo, lol. Uh, Oh, here comes the wife gotta go now, lol.

JasonB
03-26-2013, 10:40 AM
lmfao

thats actually my GF, she had a dozen professional pictures taken as a gift to me for an anniversary last fall. I have 5x7's of that shot and an 8x10 of another that a moderator would ban me for posting ;)

barnett468
03-26-2013, 10:44 AM
lmfao

thats actually my GF, she had a dozen professional pictures taken as a gift to me for an anniversary last fall. I have 5x7's of that shot and an 8x10 of another that a moderator would ban me for posting ;)

Well thanks for sharing, lol!

C.J
03-26-2013, 10:55 AM
In one of your earlier post you said you had an LT to look at when making the T4. Why copy the LT front end? The LT sucks on jumps an all. It's a flat track bred machine. Why not copy the Honda geometry? Also, why did y'all flip the bore and stroke on the T4 engine? By flip it I mean like (these are just numbers so don't flip out on me) say the bore x stroke for the T3 was 67 x 69 the T4 engine is 69 x 67 Like I said, not the actual numbers I don't think. And if that aint right don't go super hater-aid on me either because not had the opportunity to own a Tecate I haven't done much research into them.

barnett468
03-26-2013, 11:17 AM
In one of your earlier post you said you had an LT to look at when making the T4. Why copy the LT front end? The LT sucks on jumps an all. It's a flat track bred machine. Why not copy the Honda geometry? Also, why did y'all flip the bore and stroke on the T4 engine? By flip it I mean like (these are just numbers so don't flip out on me) say the bore x stroke for the T3 was 67 x 69 the T4 engine is 69 x 67 Like I said, not the actual numbers I don't think. And if that aint right don't go super hater-aid on me either because not had the opportunity to own a Tecate I haven't done much research into them.

Hello CJ

Interestingly posed question, not to worry, won't "flip" out and go "super hater-aid" on you whatever that means, lol. I don't consider your questions to be posed in a negative way. It's late and I have to go but I'll answer more thoroughly later. For now a Honda was not even built at the time Kawi designed their original model. They did not "copy" the LT front per say. The original t4 prototype had a front end which performed noticeable better under more conditions than the Suzuki. The bump steer was noticeably less on ours than the Suzuki also.The whole vehicle was different dimensions than the final production version. The FINAL product was deemed not suitable for the target market by everyone in US r and d including myself most of all. It ended up being some new engineers dream project in Japan. We tested all bikes on THE Carlsbad mx track, nasty. We would clear the finish line table top with all but their version.

Thanks for the question

C.J
03-26-2013, 04:10 PM
ah ok makes sense then. no honda to copy at the time lol. Id love to have seen the T4 yall came up with, maybe then they wouldnt be the big turd that we all know and distaste today!! LOL im just joking but they did turn out to be one of the bigger jokes around. Kinda like a polaris!! HAHAH!! Thanks for the response man!!

barnett468
03-27-2013, 03:35 AM
Hello CJ


The answer to your question is I don’t know. I was not involved in initial engine design, this was all done in Japan and I simply had to work with the bore/stroke they sent us. I worked with port changes, pipe, carb, head, gearing, engine cooling and clutch etc. as far as the engine part of it went.

The tecate t3 and the kx 250 shared the same bore/stroke until 1987. In 1987 the kx model switched to the 64.7x70 bore/stroke combo.

The 86 t3 bore/stroke was built to match the kx models. The first t4 was a 1987 model so it seems reasonable to me to think that since they obviously thought the new bore/stroke worked better for the kx’s they simply did the same for the t4’s..

Since the 86 tecate 3 was a new model they wanted to get another year out of the engine molds to make it cost effective so this is the main reason the 87 t3 is NOT the same bore/stroke as the 87 t4 and 87 kx250 models. All the mfgs new the ban was coming anyway in dec 1988 so there was no reason to make any costly changes for their 87 models.

In 85 Honda “flipped” their bore/stroke on the atc 250r also which was the same for the 86 trx250r, so I guess one could ask them the same question.


HONDA BORE/STROKE

Cr250 84 66x72 atac

Cr250 85 66x72 atac

Cr250 86 66.4x72 pv

Cr250 87 66.4x 72

Cr240 88 66.4x72

atc250r 84 70x64.4

atc250r 85 66x72

atc250r 86 66x72

trx250r 86 66x72

trx250r 87 66x72

trx 250r 88 66x72

Hope this info helps.

NOS_350X
04-07-2013, 04:17 AM
PLEASE tell me nobody belives this guy, Also im willing to bet i have more pro racing under my belt than this guy.

just ben
04-07-2013, 09:25 AM
PLEASE tell me nobody belives this guy, Also im willing to bet i have more pro racing under my belt than this guy.why not? everyone knows that they went to a 70mm bore for the kx in 87,so he must know his chit:rolleyes:

falloutboy
04-08-2013, 01:39 AM
the I've been there, done that, designed the t-shirt attitude is starting to annoy me...jus' sayin'

hondawasaki
04-08-2013, 09:42 PM
What year did Kawi start on the Tecate 4. The Quadracer came out in 85 .The fourtrax 250r came out in 86.

'87 was the first year.

barnett468
04-09-2013, 02:34 AM
What year did Kawi start on the Tecate 4. The Quadracer came out in 85 .The fourtrax 250r came out in 86.



Hello Atc300r


Thanks for the question unfortunately I only have a general answer. I understand from your question that you want to know when the t4 project was started not when the production model became available.


I don’t remember the exact dates but this is generally what happened. If this is more info then you were looking for then just disregard anything that isn’t pertinent to your question.


We received the original Japanese made t4 prototype at US Kawi R and D in 1986, around 6 months prior to the release of the 1987 production model. Due to the fact that the Japanese “version” and “vision” of an out of the box high performance recreational/racer quad fell far short of US Kawi’s criteria for one, the production release date was probably delayed by 30-60 days since I literally cut theirs in half with an air hack saw to modify it. The engineers from Japan were not amused however everyone in US Rand D thought it was pretty funny.


The planning and drawings for a totally new vehicle typically start approximately 1 ½-2 years in advance of a planned production release date with the exception of the Kawi Mule of which there was a working prototype around 1982 and was finally produced for 1987, lol. On the other hand the 84 t3 took around 1 year from start to prototype.


If I remember right, US Kawi was not even notified or aware that Kawi Japan was working on this particular project until around 30-60 days prior to the day we actually received it. We had discussed the idea of building one after I first saw Suzuki’s prototype or pre-production model prior to it’s original release however that’s the last time the topic came up until 86.


Hope this answers your question.