New guy with atc 110

[Handy Andy]

Been watching for a while for a small honda atv that I could fix up for my grandkids to ride. They are 6 and 8, and almost bought a kids 50cc bike, and my daughter said " Don't you dare buy a motorcycle for my kids", so here I am. Bought a ATC 110 yesterday, and it will run, but the chain is bad, and when I went to get it off, couldn't find the connector link. No spring clip on either side of the chain. Also found that the brakes won't let off once you squeeze them, so assume there is a broken spring in the brake. Tried to download a manual for this thing, and couldnt get one to download. What am I doing wrong? This 3 wheeler looks pretty nice, the plastic is good, tires look good, seat needs recovered, but is all there, just some rips in cover. Hoping to get the wife to recover it. And the gas tank is rusty inside, but already have some oxalic acid, and plan to give it that treatment. And the guy wanted to move it, when I said I'd like to pay 200, he said "let's get it loaded."

[Handy Andy]

Just checked the vin on this site, and it said I have a 74 ATC 90. The plastic has 110 stickers, and the points cover has CDI on it. Guess I'll look in there and see if it has points or electronic ignition. If it really is a 90, might be a plus, as when I look at DRATV they have more parts for 90's than 110's.

[trike savior]

good 4 u. these are very good bikes and will not let you down. they are fast enough for a child of that age to have fun on but not too fast or heavy to severly hurt if they get stupid. some chains do not have master link it was probably put on by shop who had tool to crimp the studs on chain. take a dremel with a cut off wheel, or angle grinder and grind down the studs on one link. use a screw driver and hammer to separate the pieces and it will come apart.
dont over look the brakes. important if kids are riding it. make sure all springs are there. one coil spring on foot brake lever, near the pivot.
there is one on the rod from the foot lever to the actuator lever. it is behind actuator. and there are 2 on the brake shoes. the actuator lever mounts to the pivot which actually engages the brake shoes. this sometimes gets frove up with rust and causes that problem. remove the actuator lever and the brake shoes and the pivot slides out on the brakes side. wire wheel it and give it a coat of grease. if the machine sat for a long time i suggest taking some rough sandpaper to drum to keep it from only locking up.
good luck. be sure to teach the kids how to ride it properly and not turn sharply or get on steep hills sideways. i learned the hard way but your son/daughter might not appreciate it. might put in low gear till they get used to it or you see how responsible they are.

[trike savior]

sounds like you have a mix there. 90,110 and 125 engines all roughly same and rest of parts roughly same (some changes over years) 70-82 frame parts all are same (brakes, chain cover, grab bar) thats why 110 plastics fit fine even though frame vin is 90. if it says cdi on points cover you have a 110 engine 81-85. if it has cdi it cannot be a 90 because the crankshaft is different to accomodate different flywheels.

to sum it up, when oredering parts, engine 81-85 and chassis parts 70-82 (tripple tree parts slightly different 70-72)

[barnett468]

hello

i'm not sure if the motors are interchangeable. does the vin on the motor match the frame. i think the vin should start with 90 for a 90 cc or 110 for a 110 cc. thats how some bikes work most here should know how a honda works.

CHAIN REMOVAL - good suggestion above but if you don't have those tools then you can buy a 3" diameter grinding stone attachment for your hand drill at home depot etc. they are around $5.00

REAR SPROCKET - if it looks even remotely worn then replace it or it will quickly ruin your new chain. same with the front one. if the kids are young you might also want to buy a smaller front sprocket to slow it down a little or limit the throttle travel.

[trike savior]

trust me. look at how many of these i own. ive been all over every inch of these. i know what fits what

[barnett468]

trust me. look at how many of these i own. ive been all over every inch of these. i know what fits what

hello trike savior

never suggested you didn't. didn't see your second post for some reason. Is the motor size in the vin on the motors of these?

[trike savior]

yes, engine vin is near shifter low on engine if i remember correctly. will say us90, atc90, atc110 on top and then serial # underneath

[barnett468]

yes, engine vin is near shifter low on engine if i remember correctly. will say us90, atc90, atc110 on top and then serial # underneath

Hello trike savior thanks for the info, I was thinking it might also be in the VIN but it sounds like you are unsure about that untill you look. That's why I mentioned it to him before seeing your post with your cdi comment but mentioning that it is cast on the block is good info anyways. Seems like the engine vin would be the easiest and most guaranteed ci and model identifier on most bikes in the event other peripheral parts have somehow been changed after 30 plus years providing it is in the VIN on this model. I know it was for sure on at least some other Honda models.

[Handy Andy]

When I took off the chain cover I discovered you have to pull back on the brake lever to free up the turning of the back wheels, and would take the brake cover off, but there is a metal ring on the axle not far from the brake cover, figured I needed a manual to see how to get the cover out of the way? Thanks for the posts, good info.

[barnett468]

When I took off the chain cover I discovered you have to pull back on the brake lever to free up the turning of the back wheels, and would take the brake cover off, but there is a metal ring on the axle not far from the brake cover, figured I needed a manual to see how to get the cover out of the way? Thanks for the posts, good info.


Hello andy

Now you are you saying you have to apply the brakes to disengage them? That's weird. I suppose it might have a broken brake sprinng closest to the brake shaft and if it has a brake arm return spring on the outside it could be applying the brakes.


Here's an online repair manual

http://www.repair-guidebook.com/index.php/1973-1978-honda-atc90-1979-1981-atc110-1979-1981-workshop-service-repair-manual-pdf-download/


here's another

http://ezloading.net/documents-ebooks/manuals-technical/honda-atc-90-atc-110-service-repair-manual-1973-1974-1975-1976-1977-1978-1979-1980-1981-download.html

[Handy Andy]

Got my chores done and went about taking off the brake cover. Took the 2 big nuts loose, they were not tight, and the ring that spins with the axle came off ok, then started pulling off the bolts around the sheld over the brake, and all came out fine but the one in front of the axle. Can't get inside to get hold of anything, so looks like the muffler has to come off. Took off the bottom shield, the front bolt attaches to the muffler and the 2 nuts where it attaches to the engine, and the muffler still seems to be fastened. Can't find a bolt, but must be one somewhere. Wish you could turn this thing on its side.

[Handy Andy]

Barnett 468, how do these download manuals work? My son is away for a few days, so I have no computer help till weekend.

[trike savior]

other places for manuals are a members page here, kbonly or google search "oscar mayer atc" they are also posted on that website

you should not have to remove muffler. that bolt directly in fron of axle goes through brake cover, frame, exaust and the nut is on otherside of frame. its about 6 inch long and dont loose it hard to find new at hardware store.

[MonroeMike]

^
http://www.kb0nly.info/ATC/index.php

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

Honda Engine Serial Numbers
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/141286-Honda-Engine-Serial-Numbers

[barnett468]

This is as easy as i can make it for you. The link below is part of the one from kbonly that trikesavior and monroemike suggested.


1. Left click once on the blue line below.

http://www.kb0nly.info/ATC/index.php?dir=ATC90%2F


2. A page will appear listing two manuals, left click once on the first manual.

3. A small gray box will appear saying "you Have decided to download a file". Left click once on the word "OK".

4. A new blank page will appear, don't worry, just do nothing.

5. At the top of the page you will see a blue line slowly trace across the screen in a long thin box. When this line gets to the right of the little window your complete manual will automatically appear. This will take between 2 and 5 minutes.

6. Scroll down on the narrow vertical window on the left to your desired topic, then left click once on the topic.

7. The print will be too small to read, don't worry. There is a small box near the top of the page that will say something like 48% or 52% etc. Left click once on small icon on the right side of the box. A drop down window will appear, left click once on the desired enlargenent. I use 100% or 125% max. The rest is hopefully self explanatory.

Good Luck

[coolpool]

How about some pics of the beast. I'm curious to see what kind of mix and matching went on. Once you've replaced the chain, keep a close eye on it's adjustment. It's common to have a loose chain thrown off which may cause havoc to your engine case. Don't forget to lube your brake cable also. If you have that much rust in your tank, it will be only a matter of time before it get's to the carb. Take off the tank, slosh it around with small rocks or screws and flush it out. Put in a couple of inline fuel filters too. That will pay off huge.

[Kickstand 1]

Ok another problem with the brakes not releasing comes from the shaft that connects the tensioner threw the frame to the brake. The grease that is in there gets hard from setting. I have had a couple bikes that this was the issue with. The grease gets hard and then the shaft starts to rust. I have owned over a 100 us90 atc 90's and 1979-1980 110's. I have only ever had one that had a broken spring inside the brake drum area. Very rare to see that.
My guess is its the shaft like i said. Grease is hardened and that's the problem. remove the tensioner and spray the shaft down with PB and pull it threw from the brake side. If it comes right out that was not your problem. If its stuck! you can drive it threw with a punch. Make sure you keep the punch in the center where the provided indentation is there from the factory. Keep spraying it down as you hit it threw.

[barnett468]

hello kickstand

I thought things like you did from his FIRST post also however in his second post he clearly clarifies his original comment saying he had to partially pull the brake lever [apply the brakes] to free the wheel. This can only be a broken or missing spring inside the brake drum as far as I know but i'ts possible it's something else I just can't think of something else right now.

Kind of a tricky one

[trike savior]

just to clarify for ya. that shaft that goes through frame to tensioner does not move when you hit the brake. the brake lever moves on it. that is where he means the grease can harden or it can get rusty and stick.

[Handy Andy]

Haven't been able to work on the atc for a couple days, we are having a big snow and I also caught some kind of flu. What I meant when I posted pulling back on the brake lever, was when I was sitting behind the thing with my tools, and had the machine jacked up and found the wheels very hard to turn, grabbed the lever on the brake itself and pulled it back to release the brake. Find the hand lever works the brake better than the foot lever. So need to do some cleaning and lubing. The lever that is used to tighten the chain seems stuck, and I see splines, does it not also pivot? The rear sprocket seems ok, can only pull the chain out about 1/4" in the middle of where the chain meets the sprocket, but think the front sprocket is shot. Along with the chain. And if the tightener is freed up, and slack is taken out, should be good. My phone doesn't do pics, and I have to have my son post them when he is here. He is at a OSHA seminar this week.

[Handy Andy]

Forgot to say thanks for all the help! This is a great forum. Very helpful to a guy with a new toy.

[barnett468]

Haven't been able to work on the atc for a couple days, we are having a big snow and I also caught some kind of flu. What I meant when I posted pulling back on the brake lever, was when I was sitting behind the thing with my tools, and had the machine jacked up and found the wheels very hard to turn, grabbed the lever on the brake itself and pulled it back to release the brake. Find the hand lever works the brake better than the foot lever. So need to do some cleaning and lubing. The lever that is used to tighten the chain seems stuck, and I see splines, does it not also pivot? The rear sprocket seems ok, can only pull the chain out about 1/4" in the middle of where the chain meets the sprocket, but think the front sprocket is shot. Along with the chain. And if the tightener is freed up, and slack is taken out, should be good. My phone doesn't do pics, and I have to have my son post them when he is here. He is at a OSHA seminar this week.


OK that makes more sense on the brakes now. If you remove the brake rod or cable from the arm on the brake backing you can tell if the "brake arm shaft" is sticky and/or if the "brake pedal pivot shaft" is sticky. Sounds like many things are sticky so it might be best to clean and lube all pivot shafts and cables etc.

[trike savior]

i agree with barnett. its what i normally do with my bikes is break it all down, wire wheel all shafts, lube, and reassemble. i like lucas red n' tacky best but anything is better than 30 yr old dry grease. if i forgot to mention, when you remove the pivot that the brake shoes are on, on the outside (actuator lever side) there is a little cloth seal to watch out for. if things are dry it may fall out or may stay stuck in housing. just make sure its there when you put it back together.

[Handy Andy]

The snowstorm has moved on, had a nice day today, only cold. After chores I made the rounds to the neighbors to blade them out. We had more than a foot of snow, and had a couple calls this morning for help getting driveways bladed. So spent the rest of the morning doing volunteer work. Then one granddaughter is sick, so spent the afternoon at her house, and played in the snow with the other Gdaughter. Life is good when you have grandkids. School was closed.

[barnett468]

The snowstorm has moved on, had a nice day today, only cold. After chores I made the rounds to the neighbors to blade them out. We had more than a foot of snow, and had a couple calls this morning for help getting driveways bladed. So spent the rest of the morning doing volunteer work. Then one granddaughter is sick, so spent the afternoon at her house, and played in the snow with the other Gdaughter. Life is good when you have grandkids. School was closed.

Good we have all heard the east got beat up bad this time. I fortunately left michigan years ago and now only see snow if i want to in the winter. I had to put a jacket on today it got all the way down 65 degrees here today. Sorry i couldn't help myself.

[Handy Andy]

2 degrees this morning. I got the brake cover off thanks to Trike Savior, and now the brake drum is the next obstacle. Looks like it might be threaded on, the double nuts would make sense then, but there are no marks where it has been removed, and everything is just round. Took some water pump pliers, but it is very tight. Am I right? If it is threaded, probably need a pipe wrench and big hammer to knock it loose.

[trike savior]

NO! NO! dont do that. the drum is not threaded on. it is just splined on to axle and the double nuts hold everything tight. in many cases rust gets in there and holds together. first look inbetween the drum and the axle. unless it was discarded already there is an o-ring in there that makes it impossible to get off. take a small pick and try and get it out if you see it down in there. otherwise the rust is your problem. its ok to hit the drum to try and knock it loose but never hit the axle directly with a steel hammer. on these bikes the sprocket is permanently mounted to axle. so what you need to do is put the frame on the sprocket side of bike up against a workbench or something that wont move. use a block of wood to protect your threads from the hammer. hit the axle on the drum side toward the sprocket side. sometimes you need a big hammer and to hit it hard, dont be scared to get angry as long as your block of wood holds together. it may take a few

good luck

[barnett468]

2 degrees this morning. I got the brake cover off thanks to Trike Savior, and now the brake drum is the next obstacle. Looks like it might be threaded on, the double nuts would make sense then, but there are no marks where it has been removed, and everything is just round. Took some water pump pliers, but it is very tight. Am I right? If it is threaded, probably need a pipe wrench and big hammer to knock it loose.


Hello

Looks like trike saviour has given you an xlnt detailed description for your drum removal so I can only suggest this. I posted the links to a repair manual in an earlier post. It is always best to check that out first so you can get used to using it and so you will be able to find the info to your questions quickly in case no one here can readily answer them. Use the kbonly link or baloney link in the second post.

[Handy Andy]

Glad I posted that before trying! Son downloaded the manual to a "stick". So now I have someplace to check.

[barnett468]

hello andy

I posted easy to follow instructions for you on how to load the manual days ago but i;m glad you have it now.

[Handy Andy]

Good with computers, NOT! Too bad they didn't offer evening classes for old coots at our school but no such luck. I learn by asking my son questions, but he usually just acts like I'm an idiot and does things for me. Not all bad.
Got the brake drum out of the way today, brakes look good, springs are fine, looks like the problem is the brake tensioner shaft is dry. So try to get that apart next. Looked at DRATV for parts, the idler on the chain tensioner is shot, so looks like I need a chain tensioner. Looked at the engine #, it is TB02E 2326674, the vin decoder said invalid number, so left a post. When I feel the front sprocket, feels like the teeth are bent, so need to figure out which one before ordering. The seal between the chain guard, says replace if it is bad, can a guy get a new one? Or do you just caulk with silicone? Looks like the chain tensioner was put on the splines wrong, it was against the chain guard on the bottom, and when you pivot it, it goes down, so it hasn't worked in a while. Loosened the nut and it pivots, just on the splines wrong, so you can't use it to tighten the chain. No wonder the guy was having problems with the chain.

[trike savior]

ive got tensioners and shafts pm (private message) me if you want one.

dont understand what you mean by seal between chain guard.

send me pics of engine i can tell you what you have just by looking. also look on cylinder jug of engine on left side (when sitting on bike). it is cast iron piece between aluminum head and aluminum base. the side facing out has a bolt in the middle of it. on the top side there will be some raised numbers. you might have to remove carb/intake to see. it will either say 89 cc or 105 cc indicating 90 or 110.

just so you know to change chain sprocket on motor requires removing the whole pull start side of motor. its a chore but do able and will require a gasket kit. here to help let us know

some pics of bad parts you are seeing will help

[barnett468]

Hello

More good infi by trikesavior however don't forget to look by the shifter as he mentioned and look for the 90cc number he said should be there.

Tell your son if he wants to ride it he must take the photos trike savior requested but I would suggest two more, one being the teeth on the rear sprocket and the other being the vin on the motor.

If your front sprocket is worn and you can pull the chain off the rear sprocket by 1/4" as you said you can then the rear is definitely bat and will prematurely kill your chain. Do it right and do it once.

What EXACTLY is the VIN on the FRAME?

[Handy Andy]

The complete # off the frame is ATC90 1316575.

[trike savior]

looked at one of my 110's today and had the tb # on motor like yours. your frame is definately atc 90 but someone prolly blew motor and replaced with 82-85 110 cdi engine. as i said in earlier posts for frame parts you need to buy for 76-82 90 or 110 and engine parts 82-85 some things will work from older engines like cylinder and head, main parts that are different are in the bottom end like pullstarter, crank, flywheel, stator cover and hi/low box. the clutch cover and parts under there are same between all years 110 and 90.