'87 tecate 3 parts

[Overponder]

Hi guys,new to the site,just acquired a tecate 3 to go with my '86atc 250r and '86tri-z 250,I'm looking to Restore it back to its former glory days with a few well needed accessories,I would like a repro coolant tank,a wider axle,info on original tyre makes,and basically any good stuff for this machine without going to far away from original,many thanks and great site by the way,regards.

[TheBlueWale]

Hey, you will want to get in contact with john swinehart about the repro parts, broncobeast still has some new extended axles fro the 86/7 in the 3ww store, and also please post some pictures of your collection and the Tecate.

[Overponder]

Thanks for that my friend,I appreciate any help trying to keep the tecate dream alive,bits over here quite rare,thanks again,regards.

[jeswinehart]

Thanks for the referral Erik, Over pounder just contacted me.

john

[barnett468]

Hello overponder

Sounds like you're doing a resto to stock. I actually did the test development and lot's of engineering on this model when I worked at Kawi Rand D so I'm quite fond of them and love to see them stock so I will tell you where you can get a lot of nos parts if you want including a new nos rear fender which may be gone by the time you read this because someone else will see it and buy it. The orig tire mfg was Dunlop but you won't likely find the original pattern in new or good used.


http://www.xtremeusa.com/


Original rear fender

http://www.xtremeusa.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=BRP_SKI#/Kawasaki/KXT250-B1_Tecate_(1986)/FENDERS/KXT250-B1-1986/090203D-8



Hope this helps. I'll try to answer any questions about it for you if others can't.

[barnett468]

try here for tires

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/c/43/81/165/ATV-Tires

[Overponder]

Hi barnett468, thanks for the reply-the tecate I have is on its original rubber,it's just there a bit worn,I would like to bling the old girl up a bit,I'm gonna get the frame powder coated amongst other bits,I understand the swingarm is aluminium on these,any knowledge of these been polished up by anyone? Also wheel rims-can they've polished or is it new Douglas rims I see on the mint tecate pictures on here? Ive read some of your replies on here-you had one cool job-my regards to you,thanks.

[barnett468]

Hello

Good to hear back from you, here's the info I know regarding your question. All major aluminum parts on all bikes, trikes, cars, etc have a clear protective coating on them from the factory. It is best to remove this coating before polishing. Some polishing shops will send it out for you before they polish it. Once removed of this protective coating all aluminum parts will quickly oxidized whether polished or not and need to be maintained on a regular basis to protect the "bare" surface.

Some people have the parts recoated ie either anodizing or cad plating don't remember which. Do not clear coat them with clear paint, clear paint is porous.

There is another process that I personally would have done instead of polishing because it looks exactly like polished aluminum but is more durable and or just simpler to do. I would have all original clear coat removed then have all surfaces smoothed, then have them dipped in a material that is called "brite dip". Every piece of aluminum on your car that looks highly polished, almost looks like chrome, is actually dipped. It is not quite as bright as chrome so it wouldn't look "cheesy"

After seeing your honda I would do all the aluminum on the bike this way ie fork tubes, tripple clamps, motor mount bkts, brake calipers, carb, maybe side cases etc.

Let me know what you think and please send photos!

RE kAWI JOB - Yeah coolest best job I could ever imagine having. Fortunately they overlooked my slightly long hair during the long interview process and just focused on engineering, mechanical and riding experience.

[Overponder]

Hi again, I imagine all that hairs gone now! Not bald but cut -I've recently just got a NOS rear mudguard from the states,I also have a new coolant bottle,KIPS emblem for the cylinder,and top and bottom chain slider with thanks to jeswinehart,a new durablue axle,lots of NOS parts-grips,foot peg springs,rear brake pedal spring,nuts and bolts etc,a new plug,k + n filter,front and rear pads,a v-force3 reed valve system,new decal kit and various other bits and bobs,oh also a chrome engine bolt kit and Sprock racing cool head from Off Road Innovation (great tecate site).i also just ordered two rear tyres from Motosport,I'm a bit worried about these,they have the original Kawasaki part no,but I don't know if they have been superceeded from the original Dunlops with the tetris style knobs on,I will e-mail them today.
Back to Kawasaki,did they not test the bikes long enough to see what happens to the coolant bottle,flywheel magnets?
Regards.

[barnett468]

Hello

Did my polishing info help you.

Yes regarding my hair I now cosmetically conform, lol.

RE FLYWHEEL, WATER BOTTLE - This is a question that annoys me a little when people ask it because they do not use simple logic to understand it.

This type of question is the equivalent of asking Ford why the radiator leaks on their 85 wagon. None of these bikes were designed to last 30 years. The tecate was tested under far more severe conditions during development than any other comparable mfg model. Yes I do know this for a fact. I do not know how long others tested for but probably not as long for various reasons.

With the exception of around 20 total hours of low speed type trail riding all the testing was done under race type conditions ie ride around the track as fast as I could for a total of around 150 hours in the US. I also went to Japan for the initial test of the 86 prototype where including my 50 hours of testing it had around 150 on it. This is the same vehicle they sent to me in the US with the same flywheel, motor, water bottle etc.

The bike was designed as a race bike with little regard to the casual trail rider ergo the extreme test conditions. Unlike the other mfgs this bikje was tested on extremely rough hard packed ungraded motocross courses ie saddleback and Carlsbad as well as the nasty track kawi had in japan. We had to drive right by Hondas posh, vacation resort type test facility every single day. They had a grader and water I’m sure, lol. Anyway mx style riding consisted of around 25% of the testing. This is why a stock kawi leaves a stock Honda in the dust on an extremely rough course. Unfortunately all the 3 wheeler races are were held on much smoother type tracks. During all this testing there was not one single nut, bolt, flywheel or water tank failure etc.

I then had to do a 100 hour test on the pre-production model [same as production].

Every single team kawi bike from day 1 ran the stock ign and water bottle as you say with no failures. If there had been a significant number of warranties on the production models Kawi would have told me and sent me new parts to test.These are all the facts I know regarding these issues.

The kawi test bike used in 86 3 wheeler shoot out had a suspension bottoming problem for some reason. I was never notified about it.

[barnett468]

hello

forgot to mention, if you are concerned about your magnets coming off i would replace it with a new one if you can find one. there are lots of kawi guys that have never had a problem. perhaps the glue simple decays from 25 years of heat and vibration or the flywheel mfg changed the spec on the glue to a cheaper kind and didn't tell kawi if they were subbed out.

What is the internet address for sprock racing google does not list them?

They look cool, why did you want one of those?

Do they claim any cooling benefits from it?

I read they have interchangeable chamber inserts.

Are you running a stock pipe if not do you know whose it is? If it's an old miller, klemm or bassani i may be able to tell you by looking at it.

They apparently may interfere with some pipes

"Anyway, got it together without a single problem. My DG headpipe does contact the cool head. If you run one of these with a stock head you know it's close and the pipe has two head bolt indentions made into it. Well the cool head is about twice as tall as a stock head and it squarely contacts the headpipe along most of the left-top side of the head. I had to use 1/2 inch spacers on the headpipe front rubber mount and the silencer mount location. I thought I'd get an exhaust leak at the cylinder because the alignment seems off a little. Honestly I gooped it up pretty good with silicone and got a new crush gasket and new o-rings, 2 on the DG pipe, and it doesn't leak one little bit. I'm happy about that to say the least, I hate exhaust leaks."

thanks

[Overponder]

hi barnett468,sorry i didn't mean anything by the coolant bottle/flywheel question,as you say you were testing brand new machinery and here we are 25 years down the line with bikes that are still here looking/riding/racing great,a testament really to yourself and honda and yamaha counterparts for the work put in,thanks for the info on polishing,i understand polished to a natural aluminium finish then requires polishing every now and again to stop oxidisation,but i don't really mind i have a touch of OCD where cleaning bikes is concerned,i think i would struggle to find the 'dipping' method you describe over here but i will look into it,i want my tecate to have a clean look like my honda,it already has a dg pipe on it but i don't like the finish of the expansion chamber-im going to see if i can get it chromed,i wanted the sprock head to add a bit of bling as well as practicality,i got it from off road innovation,i don't know the sprock racing web address.
regards

[Overponder]

Hi there, I just looked up and they do bright dipping over here,which is a surprise to me,but I will look further into it,thanks for the info again,
Regards.

[3Razors]

Hello

Did my polishing info help you.

Yes regarding my hair I now cosmetically conform, lol.

RE FLYWHEEL, WATER BOTTLE - This is a question that annoys me a little when people ask it because they do not use simple logic to understand it.

This type of question is the equivalent of asking Ford why the radiator leaks on their 85 wagon. None of these bikes were designed to last 30 years. The tecate was tested under far more severe conditions during development than any other comparable mfg model. Yes I do know this for a fact. I do not know how long others tested for but probably not as long for various reasons.

With the exception of around 20 total hours of low speed type trail riding all the testing was done under race type conditions ie ride around the track as fast as I could for a total of around 150 hours in the US. I also went to Japan for the initial test of the 86 prototype where including my 50 hours of testing it had around 150 on it. This is the same vehicle they sent to me in the US with the same flywheel, motor, water bottle etc.

The bike was designed as a race bike with little regard to the casual trail rider ergo the extreme test conditions. Unlike the other mfgs this bikje was tested on extremely rough hard packed ungraded motocross courses ie saddleback and Carlsbad as well as the nasty track kawi had in japan. We had to drive right by Hondas posh, vacation resort type test facility every single day. They had a grader and water I’m sure, lol. Anyway mx style riding consisted of around 25% of the testing. This is why a stock kawi leaves a stock Honda in the dust on an extremely rough course. Unfortunately all the 3 wheeler races are were held on much smoother type tracks. During all this testing there was not one single nut, bolt, flywheel or water tank failure etc.

I then had to do a 100 hour test on the pre-production model [same as production].

Every single team kawi bike from day 1 ran the stock ign and water bottle as you say with no failures. If there had been a significant number of warranties on the production models Kawi would have told me and sent me new parts to test.These are all the facts I know regarding these issues.

The kawi test bike used in 86 3 wheeler shoot out had a suspension bottoming problem for some reason. I was never notified about it.

If thats the case that Kawasaki rigorously tested its components more than any other manufacturer then why have the Tecate flywheels come apart while the 250R/TRIZ flywheels have withstood the test of time. In fact I have never seen a 250R flywheel come apart, but I have seen dozens of Tecate flywheels grenade since the early 90's. I love the Tecate for what it is but the Honda ATC250R was the best engineered/reliable/durable 250 2 trike ever made.

[barnett468]

Hello overponder.


I knew you would find the bright dip easily every country has it. All the high end classic car restorers use it like the jaguar guys in your country. Here's a tip, it's not cheap to do just a couple individual items so check different shoos, prices will vary greatly. one of them can run your parts with another batch if they are not greedy!




Yes fortunately all the old atv’s are still around.

Two of the aspects of my job among many others were 1. Try to break the bike at all costs. 2. Be totally unbiased and honest. The second meaning that if the other mfg’s bikes [namely honda] were better in one significant area than ours than admit it and try to make ours better whenever and wherever possible in the time allowed. This was the case in the development of all our vehicles but even more so in the development of the t3 series. This is why we bought Hondas on occasion to compare our prototypes with.

Although I was not the sole designer/engineer on any of the projects I personally was absolutely the last stop for prototype development prior to production and even though it might not have been feasible to improve the bikes performance for whatever reason I was still solely responsible for at least notifying Japan of the problem and leave it in their hands as to what they wanted to do about it.

Even though the other mfg did not subject their atv to the same level of extreme conditions I did for whatever reason I’m sure they did not want any parts to fail on their bikes either and did their best within the price point window they had to

Nobody wanted to have a high level of warranty returns or get a bad rap for producing a lemon.

[barnett468]

Hello Overponder

You can see by the ignorant question posed below which is asked in a sarcastic, condesending manner without provocation, why I get annoyed trying to answer it. It's clear that 3razors did not read my post #11 above where I already answered his question to the best of my ability. I can post the answers but I can't teach an illiterate person to read.




If thats the case that Kawasaki rigorously tested its components more than any other manufacturer then why have the Tecate flywheels come apart while the 250R/TRIZ flywheels have withstood the test of time. In fact I have never seen a 250R flywheel come apart, but I have seen dozens of Tecate flywheels grenade since the early 90's. I love the Tecate for what it is but the Honda ATC250R was the best engineered/reliable/durable 250 2 trike ever made.

[barnett468]

Hello Overponder

You will also notice that he will neither apologize for the negative tone of his post or apologize for not reading the answer I previously provided. Welcome to the wild, wild west!

[Howdy]

Hello Overponder

You will also notice that he will neither apologize for the negative tone of his post or apologize for not reading the answer I previously provided. Welcome to the wild, wild west!
Why would he need to apologize for asking that question? It is a valid question.
:crazy::crazy::crazy:

You claim they tested them so much, but it's no secret Honda's were more reliable. Yes, I have owned and rode many Tecate's over the years. I owned a 84 model in 1989 and the flywheel fell apart within 3-4 months of average riding ( maybe they made the flywheel in 1963 and didn't install it until 25 years later in 1984 ). I sold it because I wasn't buying a new stator.
A friend had a 85 250r for 6-8 years. The only thing he ever replaced on it was a spark plug and airfilter.
Howdy

[barnett468]

Why would he need to apologize for asking that question? It is a valid question.
:crazy::crazy::crazy:

You claim they tested them so much, but it's no secret Honda's were more reliable. Yes, I have owned and rode many Tecate's over the years. I owned a 84 model in 1989 and the flywheel fell apart within 3-4 months of average riding ( maybe they made the flywheel in 1963 and didn't install it until 25 years later in 1984 ). I sold it because I wasn't buying a new stator.
A friend had a 85 250r for 6-8 years. The only thing he ever replaced on it was a spark plug and airfilter.
Howdy



Hello Overponder


As you and EVERYONE can CLEARLY see we now have two people that are asking the same question I had already tried to answer to the best of my ability in my post #11. The fact that the second poster appears to have read my answer as evidenced by his uncalled for, sarcastic "maybe they made the flywheel in 1963 and installed it 25 years later" remark shows the level of maturity.

He also says that the first member is asking a valid question. I may be wrong but it seems to me that it would be obvious to any reasonable person that read and "understood" my answer that the the question is no longer valid.

Both of the second posters remarks clearly show he has no intention of trying to be productive and both members are obviously simply trying to cause problems for who knows what reason. All I did is politely answer your question as thoroughly and to the best of my ability that I could and I get unnecessarily attacked for it. Nice.

[samuraiguys]

The flywheel in my 86 looks brand new still. Glue hasnt let go for me yet and ive rode it hard. Maybe they had a bad mixture of glue and thats what led to some coming apart. I mean even so its just a flywheel. Could have been a crank coming apart or a trans issue. I can live with replacing a flywheel or a coolant bottle. Look at the 04-05 yfz450 engines. They had oiling issues and how many engines grenaded. And thats current technology lol

[barnett468]

The flywheel in my 86 looks brand new still. Glue hasnt let go for me yet and ive rode it hard. Maybe they had a bad mixture of glue and thats what led to some coming apart. I mean even so its just a flywheel. Could have been a crank coming apart or a trans issue. I can live with replacing a flywheel or a coolant bottle. Look at the 04-05 yfz450 engines. They had oiling issues and how many engines grenaded. And thats current technology lol


Hello Samuraiguy


Thanks for being the first person [other than overponder] since my reply to his “flywheel” question that has made an honest, respectful, unbiased, un-condescending and un-sarcastic post irregardless of your opinions on the subject.


Unfortunately you have now exposed yourself to the potential rath and retaliation from not only the two posters above but others as well, therefore I can only suggest that you either immediately erase your post before they or other possible agitators see it or simply "duck".


The second poster seems like he is on a mission to try and get me banned for some reason or another so even thoughyou are merely stating your opinion if your opinion varies from his then he may consider your post as some type of "alliance" with me.

[samuraiguys]

Way i see it is like this. We all love trikes. Wheres the love? I own 250r hondas. Trizs and a tecate. I love them all. You guys dont hear me complaining. If my flywheel comes apart then that just means its time for that new ricky stator setup ive had my eyes on. I feel lucky to have a tecate. Question really is. Why didnt suzuki.produce a race trike before production of there lt 250 and lt500 quads? Not enough r&d time or did they want to jump the bandwagon and be on 4 wheels first and ride that out

[barnett468]

Hello Overponder


Since you have a t4 I thought you might enjoy find my answer to samurai guy’s Suzuki comment.


This is my guess from my experience working at kawi which included dealing regularly with the marketing department. I don’t know why Suzuki did not jump on the bandwagon of 3 wheel atv popularity that Honda created like Yamaha and kawi did. Perhaps by the time they realized 3 wheelers enormous popularity they felt it was too late to jump in because the market was now too saturated for them to sell enough 3 wheelers to make a profit.


What I do know for sure is that I saw the prototype or pre production Suzuki quad one summer day at saddleback mx park a few months before it was released. It was sitting next to their plain white “incognito” box van that looked just like ours, lol. They were parked off to the side trying to be discreet and because they knew we were there they also knew it was us that was passing by. We unintentionally caught them off guard and when I saw the quad I grabbed the camera that was ALWAYS sitting next to the seat. I don’t know why the camera was there because that was the only time I ever used it, they just made me keep it in the truck.


Anyway I took the photo without stopping so as not to draw their attention or possible ire but hey I didn’t tell them to go to the busiest mx park in California with their new quad. I seriously doubt if they really cared at that point since they knew that it would take kawi up a year to copy their idea if they wanted to and Suzukis looked ready for market.


So I took the photo to the head of r and d and it caused quite a stir. They asked me if I thought it was a good idea and if it might sell well and I said heck yeah I’d ride one of those. I could afford to say whatever I wanted to though since it wasn’t my money, lol. So that’s how Kawi first got the idea to build the t4 series. I didn’t even get a free beverage from kawi for my “covert” activity!

I have to compliment them for keeping it secret up until that point. Kawi tried to keep their new bikes secret too but they didn’t try very hard since they allowed and occasionally requested that I test everyone at saddleback at one point or another, lol.

[Howdy]

The second poster seems like he is on a mission to try and get me banned for some reason or another so even thoughyou are merely stating your opinion if your opinion varies from his then he may consider your post as some type of "alliance" with me.
You attacked someone when they ask a valid question in this thread.
I replied with my experiance and then you reply with this?
You trying to mock a moderator?

If I wanted to ban you I could have already ( Read the rules ).
Howdy

[barnett468]

You attacked someone when they ask a valid question in this thread.
I replied with my experiance and then you reply with this?
You trying to mock a moderator?



If I wanted to ban you I could have already ( Read the rules ).
Howdy



Howdy

Not trying to make you mad but in my opinion you keep trying to defend a post that appears to myself and others to be defenseless since for the third time now I already answered the question before he asked it so you him and others can either read the post, understand the post, or do not, it is not my decision to make it's yours, his and others. Sanuraiguys has also posted his opinion.


You are assuming that the comment you copied is what I am referring to. You are now clearly suggesting that I am trying to mock a moderator. I have no idea how any reasonable person can think I am trying to “mock” anyone from my statement. In my opinion it is a FACTUAL reference to comments you have made elsewhere on the site towards me, nothing more nothing less. If there is any moderator that could possibly misconstrue this comment to be one that is an attempt to mock them I apologize, it certainly is not.



Your statement also clearly suggests that you are saying you are a moderator, ok, now I know you are a moderator however that in no way changes my opinions. You are also suggesting that you have the power and authority to ban me without first consulting another moderator or administrator, ok, now I know this also but again this also does not change my opinions which I hope I am still entitled to.


In my experience observing moderators and administrators [who are above moderators] on other sites they have always been peacekeepers not ones who make sarcastic and condescending comments towards the sites members as you have here and elsewhere especially when those comments are clearly unprovoked. Of those I have become friends with they told me that to do otherwise would set a bad example to the members of the forum and reduce their authority and effectiveness to a level where it would become a free for all. They also said it would lower them to the same level of others doing the same on the site.



Those moderators also never use suggestive profanity and feel it is their social responsibility [whether they like it or not] to set a good example, especially for any young children that may be reading posts on the site worldwide.



I have no intention or desire to be sarcastic and condescending to anyone, any posts I have made that may have this appearance are those that are made to defend myself against anothers first strike” sarcastic and condescending comments towards me, nothing more nothing less.

[3Razors]

Hello Overponder

You can see by the ignorant question posed below which is asked in a sarcastic, condesending manner without provocation, why I get annoyed trying to answer it. It's clear that 3razors did not read my post #11 above where I already answered his question to the best of my ability. I can post the answers but I can't teach an illiterate person to read.

Sorry but no...post #11 had nothing to do with my question nor is it an answer to it. Everyone knows that the glue holding the magnets was inferior, and it didn't take 25 years for them to come apart..more like a couple. Oh and then to say well just go buy another flywheel from Kawasaki at $400 or so dollars when it will likely do the same thing is failed bogus advice.

The question was why wasn't Kawasaki's Tecate engineers bright enough to screw the magnets in place like was done with KX250, Yamaha Tri-Z or do like Honda 250R/Suzuki LT250 and use a fixed metal ring inside the flywheel to keep things from destroying itself. Bottom line Kawasaki dropped the ball on that one along with many other components of the bike.

I figured since you were the so-called final say and all if the machine was ready for production or not you'd have an answer since you have one for everything else. But I seriously question what if any involvement you had with the Tecate at all.

[barnett468]

Hello 3razors


Since the question in your recent post still pertains to Overponders previous question I will address it here for you.


My opinion is that I consider your recent post to be laced with comments directed towards me that are sarcastic unprovoked and unnecessary, much like I felt your first post seemed to be, however in the interest of trying to keep peace I will try to set the best example I can and "try" to diplomatically respond to your questions and comments the best way I can at the moment. It is also my opinion that asking questions with the sort of “tone” I feel you did, will not get you as good of an answer as if you had asked them in a much “friendlier” manner.


My opinion is that you seem very angry about the magnets and I can sympathize with everyone’s frustration that have had problems with them but it just seems like you have targeted me and/or Kawi due to some sort of perceived injustice we have enacted against you and you want to take it out on me because I’m the easiest target. Doesn’t this seem like for you and/or others to target me and direct what I perceive is anger towards me an unreasonable and unfair thing to do?


Overponder and Samuraiguys seem to be perfectly understanding and satisfied with my answer why aren’t you. Do you think they should be angry at me?


xxxxxxxxx


Sorry but no...post #11 had nothing to do with my question nor is it an answer to it.


Member “3razors” questions posted after my replies seen below.


If that’s the case that Kawasaki rigorously tested its components more than any other manufacturer then why have the Tecate flywheels come apart while the 250R/TRIZ flywheels have withstood the test of time. In fact I have never seen a 250R flywheel come apart,


Whether I had the specific answer or not is not the question here. It is whether I made a diligent effort to answer it to the best of my ability.


Excerpts from my replies to the original posters question [seen below] which I posted prior to 3razors questions.


“None of these bikes were designed to last 30 years. The tecate was tested under far more severe conditions during development than any other comparable mfg model.”


“With the exception of around 20 total hours of low speed type trail riding all the testing was done under race type conditions ie ride around the track as fast as I could for a total of around 150 hours in the US. I also went to Japan for the initial test of the 86 prototype where including my 50 hours of testing it had around 150 on it. This is the same vehicle they sent to me in the US with the same flywheel, motor, water bottle etc.”


“During all this testing there was not one single nut, bolt, flywheel or water tank failure etc.”


“forgot to mention, if you are concerned about your magnets coming off i would replace it with a new one if you can find one. There are lots of kawi guys that have never had a problem, perhaps the glue simple decays from 25 years of heat and vibration or the flywheel mfg changed the spec on the glue to a cheaper kind and didn't tell kawi if they were subbed out.”


Member “3razors” question posted after my replies above.


“If thats the case that Kawasaki rigorously tested its components more than any other manufacturer then why have the Tecate flywheels come apart while the 250R/TRIZ flywheels have withstood the test of time. In fact I have never seen a 250R flywheel come apart,”


Member “3razors” first question to me posted after my replies above.


“If thats the case that Kawasaki rigorously tested its components more than any other manufacturer then why have the Tecate flywheels come apart while the 250R/TRIZ flywheels have withstood the test of time. In fact I have never seen a 250R flywheel come apart,”


3razors newest question posted a day after his question above.


“The question was why wasn't Kawasaki's Tecate engineers bright enough to screw the magnets in place like was done with KX250, Yamaha Tri-Z or do like Honda 250R/Suzuki LT250 and use a fixed metal ring inside the flywheel to keep things from destroying itself. Bottom line Kawasaki dropped the ball on that one along with many other components of the bike.”


REPLY – It seems to me these actually are two totally different questions, but that’s just my opinion. I don’t understand why you are trying to say they are the same.


xxxxxxx



“Everyone knows that the glue holding the magnets was inferior, and it didn't take 25 years for them to come apart..more like a couple.”


You statement is incorrect, not “everyone” knows this, I certainly don’t. I left Kawi in 88-89 and did not keep in close touch with the atv market after that. I certainly wasn’t trying to follow up on how long any particular pert of the t3 would last before it failed. Again as Samuraiguys has clearly posted on this string he has never had a problem with his tecate flywheel so to suggest or assume everyone does have this problem seems illogical to me.


xxxxxx.


“Oh and then to say well just go buy another flywheel from Kawasaki at $400 or so dollars when it will likely do the same thing is failed bogus advice.”


My opinion is that this is a sarcastic statement that could easily have been worded in a much more friendly manner without loosing the intended point of it.


What other suggestions [advice] would you prefer to hear from me, drill and screw your magnets to the flywheel like you suggest should have been done in the first place? Below is the suggestion that Samuraiguys offered in his post on the same string which he posted prior to your most recent question so you obviously had time to read it. Is there a reason you don’t like his suggestion either?


“If my flywheel comes apart then that just means its time for that new ricky stator setup ive had my eyes on. I feel lucky to have a tecate.”


If kawi does still have flywheels and you buy one and it breaks in a short period of time they will replace it for free if they determine it be defective no problem [at least it used to be no problem]. This is done through something called a warranty dept. Replacing parts that have been determined to fail prematurely is there sole purpose. It is not to look at the part and find an excuse not to replace it for free.


It is my opinion that I do not need to nor do I want to hear how stupid you or anyone else thinks I am for not knowing what Kawi does or does not have in inventory 25 years after I left there, as if their inventory was any of my business in the first place.


xxxxxxxx


“The question was why wasn't Kawasaki's Tecate engineers bright enough to screw the magnets in place like was done with KX250, Yamaha Tri-Z or do like Honda 250R/Suzuki LT250 and use a fixed metal ring inside the flywheel to keep things from destroying itself. Bottom line Kawasaki dropped the ball on that one along with many other components of the bike.”


This is my reply to your “new” and seemingly “different” question. They did not screw the magnets to the flywheel because they had no problem during testing with them.


They made several other models that used “screwless” magnets with no problems. I do remember that they did secure the magnets on at least some if not all the KX models which obviously were higher revving than the other models. I think that since they did use screwed on magnets on at least some of the KX models that if they screwed the magnets on to the KX models because they had experienced glue adhesion problems with them then it might have been reasonable for them to speculate that they might experience the same problem using screwless magnets on the comperable high revving t3 and therefore simply make the flywheel with screw on magnets in the first place however I am not a flywheel engineer and in this particular case it was not my job to worry about whether the flywheel had screw on magnets or not it was simply to test the bike and see what broke during testing.




Either way perhaps they simply reasoned that when they combined the fact that none of the other screwless type flywheel models they mfg’d had magnet adhesion failure along with the fact that they had 0 failures with the flywheel magnets during testing on the t3 they reasoned that they would have no problems in the foreseeable future. Once again I don’t know because I am not a flywheel or flywheel glue compound glue engineer.


I will say that I have personally owned and raced several other motorcycle mx models prior to the advent of the t3 that had screwless magnets and they never had a magnet adhesion problem so obviously it is not a “new unproven” design.


xxxxxxxxx


“Bottom line Kawasaki dropped the ball on that one along with many other components of the bike.”


This is your personal “opinion” that others may or may not share either way you are clearly stating it as a “fact” which is inaccurate.


Around 300 hours of rigorous testing with 0 failures proves they could not anticipate any failures beyond that period exactly the way neither your beloved Honda, Suzuki or Yamaha could etc. None of the mfg’s are psychic.


If one dislikes a product as vehemently as you appear to dislike the Tecate you are obviously free to select any model from any other brand of your choice, therefore I don’t understand the reasoning of angrily berating a particular brand when you have those other options.


xxxxxxxxx



“I figured since you were the so-called final say and all if the machine was ready for production or not you'd have an answer since you have one for everything else.”


My opinion is that this is another sarcastic and unnecessary remark, statements like this will get you nowhere with me and many others.


I have given you my answer more than once now, I will not give it to you again. You apparently don’t like my original answer either, but it along with what I have posted here are all the answers I have regarding this particular issue.


xxxxxxxxx


“ But I seriously question what if any involvement you had with the Tecate at all.”


At this point I don’t care what you think at all, I feel you have unfairly attacked me to the point that you and your opinions are no longer relevant to me.


xxxxxxxxx


I suggest that that If the answers you receive to questions you have asked within anothers personal post are unsatisfactory to you as mine seem to be here you should post them as a separate topic. I’m sure if you do this that you would increase your chances of receiving more informative answers than what you have.


If you have any issues you want to discuss with me personally that are not relevant to a particular topic then I suggest you email me and I will be glad to discuss them with you as long as your questions are reasonable and respectful.

[samuraiguys]

Maybe Kawasaki wanted to be cutting edge with their flywheel design and felt their "space age glue" to hold the magnents down was the wave of the future... Someone has to take a leap of faith and try new things. if not we would be stuck in the past. Not saying it was right for them or not, but imagine being back in 86 and you have a new machine to test. Its no different then say GM having a part fail on a new car that just rolled off the assembly line. They take a look at the failure rates, compare them to the cost of a recall and make a decision. These days federal government and the comsumer protection act make sure you dont have to worry about things like that

[3Razors]

Barnett, drama aside..you are seriously undermining the issue with Tecate flywheels. Its a good thing that you supposedly stepped away from the scene in 88 so you didn't have to witness the carnage. When the flywheel let go as a bonus it usually took out the stator along with it. So now the owner gets to buy a $400 flywheel plus a $300 stator from Kawasaki and keep his fingers crossed that it doesn't happen again, and those were circa 90's prices and was a big chunk of change back then. This was all before Ricky Stator hit the scene so that was the only option to pay Kawasaki's blood money. The result was most Tecates were simply layed to rest rather than shelling out that kind of coin. Good luck taking the issue up with Kawasaki, I have no doubt they would tell you to go pound sand on that one because the bike was out of warranty time frame.

Imagine how happy I was back in 1994 being 4 miles out stuck in a giant dune bowl at Glamis when my flywheel gave way?! Had to hike back to camp in uphill sand through the dunes back to get help...not fun at all! I Got home from the trip and bought a new Tecate stator from the original Ricky Stator when he owned the company, he stated that it was his #1 selling stator because of the flywheel issue. Thank goodness, the Ricks flywheel they sell now is the internal metal ring to do away with the glued magnets.

If you think Kawasaki tested and designed their Tecate better then just keep telling yourself that. Real world riders, professional mechanics and a few decades of use shows which 250 2 stroke trike has held together the longest with the least amount of issues, and its hands down the 250R. On a mx track with fresh new bikes I'd give the edge to Tecate but for the all around recreational rider 250R is king. It can be summed why the Tecate falls short in the durability of the 250R in...#1 Tecate no engine counter-balancer #2 is the overall build was less robust compared to the 250R. When you combine those two issues problems arise in that having no counterbalancer sends harmonic waves through the entire bike, these waves not only loosen up fasteners holding things together but also fatigue parts because of the extra shaking transmitted through them. Follow that with certain parts that weren't built as heavy duty then things go downhill fast. Honda did the exact opposite by having heavier duty built components such as the flywheel, shift shaft, pipe mounts, frame, ect. ALONG with a counter-balancers for a much longer reliability record.

And FWIW to other new members I don't hate the Tecate either, love the ones I have. Fantastic handling and the 86 cylinder is my fav 250 of all. Just remember you have to give them a bit more love (err locktite) ha in certain areas to keep it going. One member on here once said if trikes were women the 250R is one to marry and the Tecate you don't bring home to mom...Very true!!

[ylwgtr]

maybe the flywheel glue was not inferior.....probably the vibs sent the magnets running

[barnett468]

Barnett, drama aside..you are seriously undermining the issue with Tecate flywheels. Its a good thing that you supposedly stepped away from the scene in 88 so you didn't have to witness the carnage. When the flywheel let go as a bonus it usually took out the stator along with it. So now the owner gets to buy a $400 flywheel plus a $300 stator from Kawasaki and keep his fingers crossed that it doesn't happen again, and those were circa 90's prices and was a big chunk of change back then. This was all before Ricky Stator hit the scene so that was the only option to pay Kawasaki's blood money. The result was most Tecates were simply layed to rest rather than shelling out that kind of coin. Good luck taking the issue up with Kawasaki, I have no doubt they would tell you to go pound sand on that one because the bike was out of warranty time frame.

Imagine how happy I was back in 1994 being 4 miles out stuck in a giant dune bowl at Glamis when my flywheel gave way?! Had to hike back to camp in uphill sand through the dunes back to get help...not fun at all! I Got home from the trip and bought a new Tecate stator from the original Ricky Stator when he owned the company, he stated that it was his #1 selling stator because of the flywheel issue. Thank goodness, the Ricks flywheel they sell now is the internal metal ring to do away with the glued magnets.

If you think Kawasaki tested and designed their Tecate better then just keep telling yourself that. Real world riders, professional mechanics and a few decades of use shows which 250 2 stroke trike has held together the longest with the least amount of issues, and its hands down the 250R. On a mx track with fresh new bikes I'd give the edge to Tecate but for the all around recreational rider 250R is king. It can be summed why the Tecate falls short in the durability of the 250R in...#1 Tecate no engine counter-balancer #2 is the overall build was less robust compared to the 250R. When you combine those two issues problems arise in that having no counterbalancer sends harmonic waves through the entire bike, these waves not only loosen up fasteners holding things together but also fatigue parts because of the extra shaking transmitted through them. Follow that with certain parts that weren't built as heavy duty then things go downhill fast. Honda did the exact opposite by having heavier duty built components such as the flywheel, shift shaft, pipe mounts, frame, ect. ALONG with a counter-balancers for a much longer reliability record.

And FWIW to other new members I don't hate the Tecate either, love the ones I have. Fantastic handling and the 86 cylinder is my fav 250 of all. Just remember you have to give them a bit more love (err locktite) ha in certain areas to keep it going. One member on here once said if trikes were women the 250R is one to marry and the Tecate you don't bring home to mom...Very true!!




Hello 3razors


You just refuse to stop unnecessarily attacking me by making unprovoked, condescending, sarcastic remarks.

In case you haven’t noticed no one has come to support you recently. I don’t know why. There may be someone that will and I respect EVERYONE'S right to their OPINION but I do not respect or appreciate your or ANYONE'S unprovoked sarcastic, condescending remarks towards me as I previously mentioned. I also do not appreciate "falsehoods", ie. inacurate statements and opinions posited as facts in the manner you have done in some instances here.

My opinion is that you have an unhealthy obsession and unresolved anger issues over an event that you experienced which occurred 19 years ago and by your own description suggests to me had a profoundly negative effect on you that still lingers on today. This is evidenced by your continued post regarding this issue and the comments contained within in them.

If I had such issues I would seek psychological counseling.


The following is my comment in post #27 which was made prior to yours that I have copied above.

“My opinion is that you seem very angry about the magnets and I can sympathize with everyone’s frustration that have had problems with them but it just seems like you have targeted me and/or Kawi due to some sort of perceived injustice we have enacted against you and you want to take it out on me because I’m the easiest target. Doesn’t this seem like for you and/or others to target me and direct what I perceive is anger towards me an unreasonable and unfair thing to do?”



I think that most can see the problem with you or are simply bored with this as I am. You also REFUSE to PM me like I politely asked you to. Instead you want to continue this PUBLIC badgering and berating of me. How do you explain this? Like I said you and your opinions are no longer relevant to me and probably others also by now.

I asked you this in a previous post and will ask it again. What exactly do you want from me?

xxxx

“you are seriously undermining the issue with Tecate flywheels. Its a good thing that you supposedly stepped away”

How am I “undermining” the issue of problems with a 25 year old flywheel that is long since out of warranty?

xxxx

“The result was most Tecates were simply layed to rest rather than shelling out that kind of coin.”

Well 25 years later that is a good thing cause I guess you can pick up these junk boxes at a significantly lower price than a comparable Honda 250R if you want one!

xxxx

“ Good luck taking the issue up with Kawasaki, I have no doubt they would tell you to go pound sand on that one because the bike was out of warranty time frame.”

Your statement as made within the context provided suggests you did not try to take up the issue with Kawi at the time so you can only SPECULATE about things you didn’t try. I have personally seen them warranty parts first hand, that were CLEARLY out of warranty. You might have blown an opportunity by not trying. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. The squeaky wheel gets the grease [sometimes].

xxxx

“Imagine how happy I was back in 1994 being 4 miles out stuck in a giant dune bowl at Glamis when my flywheel gave way?!”

You have been complaining about flywheels blowing up a few years after they were mfg. By my math the experience you personally had was 7 years after the last tecates were produced. You’re right I’d tell you to “pound sand” [as you say] too after 7 years but you know what so would your beloved Honda, and Suzuki, and Yamaha mfg’s and so would every other reasonable person I know. Your comment suggests that if you had mfg’d this part that you would be generous enough to replace every broken one for free after this amount of time whether under warranty or not.

xxxx

“Had to hike back to camp in uphill sand through the dunes back to get help...not fun at all!”

The following is my comment in post #27 which was made prior to yours copied above.
“My opinion is that you seem very angry about the magnets and I can sympathize with everyone’s frustration that have had problems with them but it just seems like you have targeted me and/or Kawi due to some sort of perceived injustice we have enacted against you and you want to take it out on me because I’m the easiest target. Doesn’t this seem like for you and/or others to target me and direct what I perceive is anger towards me an unreasonable and unfair thing to do?”

xxxx

“So now the owner gets to buy a $400 flywheel plus a $300 stator from Kawasaki”

“I Got home from the trip and bought a new Tecate stator from the original Ricky Stator when he owned the company, he stated that it was his #1 selling stator because of the flywheel issue.”

Your comments clearly contradict themselves. You say they had by stator from kawi at the same time you are saying you personally bought one from Ricky. Sorry I’m just confused now.

How much was the Ricky then?

xxxx

“Thank goodness, the Ricks flywheel they sell now is the internal metal ring to do away with the glued magnets.”

Your comment clearly suggests that Ricky did NOT sell a flywheel with screwed on magnets or that were secured by an internal ring when you bought one in 94.

What EXACTLY was he selling?

Original OEM Kawi unit?

His own replacement with GLUED on magnets?

xxxx

“If you think Kawasaki tested and designed their Tecate better then just keep telling yourself that.”

Another unprovoked sarcastic condescending remark by you plus your comment suggests to me that you are claiming that I said or even suggested that the Tecate’s were designed better than the Honda. I encourage you to prove it because it never happened, that would be an outright lie and a “stupid” thing for me to say in this particular instance.

My statements below from post #10 posted prior to your recent one above.

“None of these bikes were designed to last 30 years. The tecate was tested under far more severe conditions during development than any other comparable mfg model. Yes I do know this for a fact.”

“The bike was designed as a race bike with little regard to the casual trail rider ergo the extreme test conditions.”

xxxx

“Real world riders, professional mechanics and a few decades of use shows which 250 2 stroke trike has held together the longest with the least amount of issues, and its hands down the 250R.”

I’m sure Jimmie White, Donnie Luce, Chris White, Tim Helter, Shaun Finley, Steve Mendenhall, Denny Fernell and several others would love to hear that they are not real world riders in your view.

Below is the url to a pair of videos of what at least some might consider “real world” riders under “real world” riding conditions however it’s quite possible your riding ability [skill level] allows you to subject your particular ATV’s to more severe conditions than those shown in these videos. level subject your bike for you, warning it isn’t pretty.

Warning to all Honda lovers, these videos portray live footage that may be harmful to your psyche and unsuitable and disturbing for you to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9E9OaUllsY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwD2gvtmias

xxxx

“On a mx track with fresh new bikes I'd give the edge to Tecate but for the all around recreational rider 250R is king.”

I think I already eluded to that fact. Honda is a great recreational bike out of the box. Great for racing with mods. I have owned way more Hondas than most. I was sponsored by Norm Reeves Honda and Dave Miller from Miller Mano in 76 on a 125 CR.

MY statement below from post #10 posted prior to yours above.

‘The bike was designed as a race bike with little regard to the casual trail rider ergo the extreme test conditions.”

xxxx

“Tecate no engine counter-balancer”

Never saw a a counter balancer on national champ Jeff Wards bike, World champ Brad Lackey, Winningest Motocrosser of all time Ricky Carmichael…

2 strokes designed as high performance race bikes don’t have counterbalancers, no matter how many wheels they have. They add weight and require horsepower to spin.

Again my statement below from post #10 posted prior to yours above.

‘The bike was designed as a race bike with little regard to the casual trail rider ergo the extreme test conditions.”

Pair of videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9E9OaUllsY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwD2gvtmias

xxxx

“It can be summed why the Tecate falls short in the durability of the 250R in...#1 Tecate no engine counter-balancer #2 is the overall build was less robust compared to the 250R.”

Anyone can build heavy tank.

Thank you for educating me in this matter however I would like to see supporting empirical evidence that supports your statement that you posit as a factual one as opposed to one that is posited as an opinion.

xxxx

“When you combine those two issues problems arise in that having no counterbalancer sends harmonic waves through the entire bike, these waves not only loosen up fasteners holding things together”

That’s what things called wrenches are made for.

Thank you for the physics lesson.

xxxx

“also fatigue parts because of the extra shaking transmitted but through them.”

Thank you for educating me in this matter also however I would like to see supporting empirical evidence that supports this statement that you posit as a factual one as opposed to one that is posited as an opinion as well.

Vibration can cause premature fatigue on adjacent parts and subsequent partial damage to or total catastrophic failure of a particular part or parts however when those said are designed to withstand a particular level of vibration whether it be the dynamic type or harmonic type then those said parts typically last as long as their design calculations predict them to.

A more accurate way to make a “blanket” statement like yours without the support of empirical evidence might be to say, “may also potentially fatigue parts because of the extra shaking transmitted through them.

xxxx

“ Follow that with certain parts that weren't built as heavy duty then things go downhill fast. Honda did the exact opposite by having heavier duty built components such as the flywheel, shift shaft, pipe mounts, frame, ect. ALONG with a counter-balancers for a much longer reliability record.”

Nothings built to last forever.

My statement below from post #10 posted prior to your recent one above.

“None of these bikes were designed to last 30 years.”

xxxx

“If you think Kawasaki tested and designed their Tecate better then just keep telling yourself that.”

Another unprovoked sarcastic condescending remark by you plus your comment suggests to me that you are claiming that I said or even suggested that the Tecate’s were designed better than the Honda. I encourage you to prove it because it never happened, that would be an outright lie and a “stupid” thing for me to say in this particular instance.

My statements below from post #10 posted prior to your recent one above.

“None of these bikes were designed to last 30 years. The tecate was tested under far more severe conditions during development than any other comparable mfg model. Yes I do know this for a fact.”

“The bike was designed as a race bike with little regard to the casual trail rider ergo the extreme test conditions.”

xxxx

“And FWIW to other new members I don't hate the Tecate either, love the ones I have. Fantastic handling and the 86 cylinder is my fav 250 of all. Just remember you have to give them a bit more love (err locktite) ha in certain areas to keep it going. One member on here once said if trikes were women the 250R is one to marry and the Tecate you don't bring home to mom...Very true!!”

It looks to me that you are saying two totally different things here so I am confused again. You try to beat me up to one degree or another over the Tecate’s flywheel problems and the perceived reliability issues you seem to have with them in every single post you have made without exception then say you here that you “love them.” Can’t you make up your mind?

xxxx

Like I said in my previous post if you PM me with a respectful tone and reasonable questions I will reply in kind.

[ezmoney1979]

Barnett, have you noticed half the threads you respond to, end up like this? You continually give poor advice and repeat false information to other members on here. 3razors couldn't have been more correct on his last post, but you want to ignore that fact and try and mix up what he said. Going onto every Tecate thread and stating "I did all the development and testing for the Tecate blah blah blah......" doesn't give you any credit. I, and others on these boards, actually have our doubts on wether or not you have even so much as changed a spark plug on a Tecate, let alone designed and tested one. You kinda come off as an "Uncle Rico" to me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmh5e-9bn8w, talking about your "back in the day" experiences. Ya know, a lot has happened since 1988, you should read up on it.

Sorry for all this thread crapping Overponder. Hopefully your thread can get back on track. Good luck with the Tecate.

[Howdy]

barnett, you act like everyone should give you respect cause you say so. I can show over 3 different times where YOU hastily condemed reputable long standing board members when they ask legit questions ( not just in this thread ). It started the day you joined. We didn't have any of this drama until then. John was the first person on the forums you blasted and he ask a simple valid question. Instead you blasted him right off the bat.

I personally think you attack any and everyone that even remotely questions your "Stated" past. I feel if you actually did what you said you have done then you would be able to answer the questions in a calm rational way instead of attacking ( just like you have done to me in this thread ).

If you don' know the answer to the question (s) then say you don't know. Don't attack someone for asking the question though.

Your Past: I'm with 3razors, ezmoney, and a few others who have contacted me privately. Back your claims up with verifyable proof.

Any more attacks like has happened in this thread already would not be wise.
Howdy