Dirty Engine :/

[AussieATC]

Hi Guys,
Recently when I pulled my engine case off to replace the clutch shoes I noticed there was a lot of steel shavings (5mm thick layer) lying at the bottom of the engine. I am
just wondering what is the best way or best product to clean it out?

[dougspcs]

Cleaning isn't the issue..where did they come from? 5mm of shavings in the bottom..I wouldn't waste money on clutches..there is something totally screwed in there!

Are they magnetic? To tell if they are alum or steel..

What engine is it?

Deal with the source..it may be already too late!

[AussieATC]

They have come from the worn rings from before and the worn shoes that have been worm right down to the steel. Its a 200es engine

[dougspcs]

OK, so we can assume the engine is solid then..you might have mentioned that!!

Don't install your clutch just yet..

The best way I could think of is to get a couple gallons of diesel fuel, put the side cover back on temporarily and pour some diesel into the crankcase and rock the machine then pull the plug and drain it..then repeat a few times.

Pull the side cover and check and remove any small pieces remaining..also access and clean the oil screen when you are done.

Then install your clutch and side cover and refill with oil. Run the engine and a couple quick oil changes after this would be good to flush the remaining diesel out so it doesn't dilute your oil.

Lastly, don't crank the engine with the diesel in the crankcase..you don't want the pump to pick it up and send it to the top end. The oil pump screen should have ensured that none of the particles made it up there..

One question..how hard did you pound it to cause your clutch to disintegrate like that? You must ride like you hate it OZman!!!

Hopefully the amount of effort it takes to clean this up will sit in your head. When something breaks again, stop and fix it before it turns to shrapnel..it'll be less money and effort to fix!

[AussieATC]

Haha nah I love my trikes it was the guy I bought it off who screwed it up...

[ps2fixer]

Just going to say an example from my xp on engines. I bought a "good" engine and found it needed a timing chain, well poped the side cover off and found similar. It was all AL though, not steel. Split the cases, found AL in some of the teeth of the transmission..... It had a piston explode in it, they fixed the top end with out touching the bottom end, it skipped timing again and sold it to me... all that AL was ground up by the transmission!

Personally never seen that much steel in the bottom of an engine ever, steel is normally really bad, rings shouldn't wear that fast, and having that much just from the clutch seems excessive, I would check the engine out really well before investing much into it. Might even be a fair idea to get a backup engine since it has a good chance of having a short life.

[AussieATC]

I have two spare engines. I am not sure weather they are steel or aluminium though.

[ps2fixer]

Here is an easy test to do, put the sludge in a plastic bag, and put your largest magnet up to it. If you can't feel the pull, move the magnet up along the bag and see how much of the stuff follows. A "rare earth magnet" works best, but I know not everyone has them laying around like I do (scrap hard drives ftw).

[AussieATC]

Ok Ill try that but it wont make much of a difference as I have replaced the rings piston and shoes and will just clean out the rest of the crap...

[DasUberKraut]

So I have a stupid question.

I'm in the process of swapping out the clutch assembly on my 125m. I had alot of caked on oil and gunk inside where the lock nut sits on clutch that I want to use... Got me thinking maybe I should try to rinse the clutch assembly before I install it in my running motor. Is it safe to rinse it with gas quick if I'm installing it right away and hitting it with fresh oil? I'm going to run it for 30 mins or so after it's assembled and change the oil again.

[ps2fixer]

I personally wouldn't put gas on it, why not just take a rag and wipe it out, add a little oil to the rag if it is dried on. Transmission fluid is a pretty good detergent and some members here run it in their engines with no ill effects.

[DasUberKraut]

I don't really want to dismantle the assembly or anything to clean it out. I just noticed some sludgy buildup on the clutch plat you can see that faces the engine. It more or less smears when you try to wipe it. I'll just clean what I can see the best I can then do a couple cycles of crank case flushing when it's back together.

[AussieATC]

I used diesel and a bit of gas.

[barnett468]

Hello

Please answer the following questions if you want.

xxxxx

Recently when I pulled my engine case off to replace the clutch shoes I noticed there was a lot of steel shavings (5mm thick layer) lying at the bottom of the engine.


1. Is the same bike you recently were told the one way bearing was bad on and wanted us to be 100% POSITIVE that was your problem because you had just recently replaced the clutches on and said it was hard to do and you didn’t want to go in there again unless we were positive this was your problem?
2. If this is the same motor I happen to know that you ran this motor after you replaced the centrifugal clutches only in which case the question is why didn’t you mention this before or clean it out then?

3. If this is the same motor did you ever do what was suggested regarding replacing the one way bearing with a NEW one? I know you said you had a spare but didn’t mention if it was new or not.

xxxxx

I am just wondering what is the best way or best product to clean it out?


That’s an irrelevant question since I know you are NOT going to clean it the BEST way which would be to remove and disassemble the motor and clean it. In light of this I can only suggest you remove everything on the right side of your case reinstall cover fill with non water base solvent or paint thinner slosh it around, tip it to the right so at least SOME of the metal from onside of the case might run into the clutch cover and then remove cover. Spray brake cleaner all over inside centercase through small holes in case if possible to help blast off potentially stuck metal then repeat process from beginning a few more times. Once reassembled Install a magnetic drain plug, fill engine with 50% oil and 50% non water based solvent, start and ride slowly [1/4 throttle max] in first gear on flat surface then tip on right side and remove clutch cover again or take the easy way out and just use drain plug to drain oil. Re fill with regular oil and ride till it blows.

Clean clutch and miscellaneous parts separately.

xxxxx

They have come from the worn rings from before and the worn shoes that have been worm right down to the steel.


That was before and has nothing to do with now plus if you had 5 mm of metal before it did not come solely from your rings since there is not anywhere near that much metal in your rings.

xxxxx

Haha nah I love my trikes it was the guy I bought it off who screwed it up...


Is this the same bike you said you were going to push over the cliff in your back yard and video the event and post a link to it here for all to see simply because you needed a one way bearing and 2 other minor things and even though you had help in the form of info supplied from others here you still thought these things would take too much effort to fix? Is that the bike you are referring to that you now say you LOVE?

xxxxx

I have two spare engines. I am not sure weather they are steel or aluminium though.


What does this have to do with your current motor?
These engines are aluminum.

xxxxx

[barnett468]

So I have a stupid question


Hello


So I have a stupid question.


There are no stupid questions only people with questionable mentality that ask for help then don't take the advice given to them by other more experienced people and then simply do what they think is best.

xxxxx

I'm in the process of swapping out the clutch assembly on my 125m. I had alot of caked on oil and gunk inside where the lock nut sits on clutch that I want to use... Got me thinking maybe I should try to rinse the clutch assembly before I install it in my running motor. Is it safe to rinse it with gas quick if I'm installing it right away and hitting it with fresh oil? I'm going to run it for 30 mins or so after it's assembled and change the oil again.






I had alot of caked on oil and gunk inside where the lock nut sits on clutch that I want to use... Got me thinking maybe I should try to rinse the clutch assembly before I install it in my running motor.

If you have stuff on your plates and inside clutch it is mostly from the fiber and metal discs wearing and should be thoroughly removed before use.

xxxxx

Is it safe to rinse it with gas quick if I'm installing it right away and hitting it with fresh oil? I'm going to run it for 30 mins or so after it's assembled and change the oil again.

Gas is not recommended, it is better to use a non water based solvent or cheap lacquer thinner but in a pinch I guess gas might be ok.

[AussieATC]

I think you have it all wrong lol.

I pulled the engine case off to check the clutch shoes as one of you guys had suggested and that was when I found all the shavings. I spent an hour or so cleaning it all out and then replaced the shoes. After doing so I took it for a drive to test if the engine braking was fixed but it only improved slightly. The cliff post was just a joke as I was getting annoyed with the bike that day.

"I have two spare engines. I am not sure weather they are steel or aluminium though."

I don't know where you got that quote from I was referring to the shaving being aluminium or steel. And one of my spare engines is nearly brand new so yeh...

[barnett468]

Post 16 - I think you have it all wrong lol.

If I have anything wrong it is simply because your explanation of the series of events is seriously lacking in detail and accuracy.

Xxxxx

Post 16 - I pulled the engine case off to check the clutch shoes as one of you guys had suggested and that was when I found all the shavings.


Yes, that is clear from your comments in post 1 pasted below.

Is this what occurred in your previous post from a month ago? Yes/No

Post 1 - Recently when I pulled my engine case off to replace the clutch shoes I noticed there was a lot of steel shavings (5mm thick layer) lying at the bottom of the engine. I am

Xxxxx

Post 1 - Recently when I pulled my engine case off to replace the clutch shoes I noticed there was a lot of steel shavings (5mm thick layer) lying at the bottom of the engine. I am

Post 16 - I spent an hour or so cleaning it all out and then replaced the shoes.

Ok, so you had a “lot” and a “5mm thick layer” of metal shavings a month ago then “attempted” to clean them out.

xxxxx

After doing so I took it for a drive to test if the engine braking was fixed but it only improved slightly.


Well I could be wrong but the centrifugal clutch is disengaged during decelleration, that is why it is called CENTRIFUGAL. The engine braking is caused by the one way bearing and the primary clutch, this is why I and others told you your bearing was likely bad last month.

Did someone tell you your bike had no engine braking because your centrifugal clutches were worn?

xxxxx

The cliff post was just a joke as I was getting annoyed with the bike that day.


Why get mad at the bike just because you are not experienced enough to fix it?

Xxxxx

“I have two spare engines. I am not sure weather they are steel or aluminium though."

I don't know where you got that quote from


That is an EXACT quote from you that you made on post #7 and you’re saying you don’t remember it?

xxxxx

I was referring to the shaving being aluminium or steel.


You did not ask that, you CLEARLY stated "I have two spare engines. I am not sure weather they are steel or aluminium though."

Now I know they talk a little differently "down under" as you Aussie's call it but there is CLEARLY no mention of metal shavings anywhere in your quote is there?

Xxxxx

And one of my spare engines is nearly brand new so yeh...


Yeh what, what point are you trying to make? l don’t know what this has to do with your metal shaving problem.

Xxxxx

You are now more vague than ever and have not answered most of my questions.

How much metal is currently in your bike?

Why did you remove the clutch cover this time?

Did you ever replace the one way bearing?

Are you going to give a clear concise detailed, accurate answer to any questions?

[ps2fixer]

Just wondering.... if you have a like new engine, why not just put that on your rider and ride it and keep the one that has odd wear signs (metal shavings) as a parts / backup engine?