250sx clutch problem

[wildacres00]

I've run into a problem with my 250sx clutch. I replaced the centrifugal clutch and manual clutch plates with springs along with the one-way clutch. I put the machine back together and the manual clutch is still slipping. I adjusted the clutch counter clockwise
until I got some resistance and backed it off 1/4 turn. Is this problem a break-in issue or something else. I've never had to break in a clutch on a automatic before so I don't know if this is normal. Thanks

[barnett468]

Hello


Your adjustment matches the manual but recheck your adjustment again.

If you have time to answer it will help others to more quickly determine what your problem might be.

How do you know for sure it is the manual clutch that is slipping, under what conditions exactly does it slip under.
Did it slip the same prior to changing the clutches?

Does it happen to slip more when it is hot or cold?

Did you see anything wrong with the old clutches?

What oil ie 30 wt 20/50 synthetic etc is in it now?

Did the inside of the centrifugal clutch hub have noticeable grooves, If so your clutch may slip?

Did you deglaze or replace the metal discs?

Did you replace all clutch parts with NEW ones?

What brand exactly are they ie Chinese etc?

[wildacres00]

The clutch is slipping in each gear while revving the engine and then finally it moves. I believe that is caused by the manual clutch?

I just changed it yesterday and ran it for about 20 minutes off and on so I don't believe it had enough time to get hot. I adjusted it prior to running the engine and then once I was running it. I stopped driving it because I was afraid that there was a problem with the installation and wanted to check online in case I was damaging something.

My old clutches didn't seem too worn but the manual clutch was slipping at high speeds and then sort of died after a while. I changed the one-way clutch because it would not grab when kick starting it and decided to change the centrifugal since i was doing the other work.

I used Valvoline 4 stroke motorcycle oil 10w-40.

I used emory cloth on the centrifugal clutch drum and removed the grooves which from what I could tell was just clutch material.

I replaced the manual clutch springs and both the metal and friction plates with a new set from e-bay called Outlaw Racing (probably Chinese). I believe the set I bought was a universal set because it had 1 extra metal and friction plate which I did not install. Also soaked the plates in oil prior to installation.

Thanks Again

[barnett468]

Hello


They do not have to break in.

You will burn whatever clutch is slipping if you continue to ride it.

Your oil is not the problem

Until someone comes along with some more ideas I would measure the total thickness of the original clutches with discs again and compare it to the new assembly. If it is more than around .020 thinner that is at least one of your problems. Also remove new spring and check height against old springs and push them with your finger to see if the new ones are noticeably lighter than the old ones. If they are and the new clutch pack thickness is ok then install old springs and try again.

Did it slip just as much PRIOR to changing the clutch?

So you are saying there are either NO grooves or just extremely SMALL grooves on the inside of the clutch hub?

If you take it apart can you post photos of inside of hub and clutches etc?

[barnett468]

Hello


You haven't answered my question regarding the CENTRIFUGAL clutches. Did you get new centrifugal clutch shoes from them also, I only saw their ad for the discs?

Did you install ne centrifugal clutch shoes?

[dougspcs]

I've had mixed luck with replacement clutches..OEM saves having to question where the issue is.

Since you didn't mention slipping on start from stop we can pretty much rule out the centrifugal.

Sounds like to covered all the bases, correct oil, soaked the clutches, adjustment...etc.

The discs may just not be to OEM spec thickness!! This happened for me on one of my 350X clutch jobs..took it back apart and put OEM in and it solved. It's a tough lesson to learn..

[wildacres00]

I'll break it down when I get some time this week and measure the spring height and plate thickness and post what I find. I'll snap some photos also

The centrifugal shoes were replaced. I bought them from a different seller on e-bay. The packaging looked OEM to me but I did not verify the company name prior to installation.

It did slip worse prior to the clutch swap.

There are no grooves in the centrifugal drum currently. There were some grooves caused by the shoe material that were sanded out with emory cloth before I put the bike back together.

I wonder if I should of installed that other friction plate and metal plate that came with the clutch kit. I checked and made sure that I installed the right number and in the right order in accordance with the Honda service manual. I read that the kit would work for a 350X and I assumed that is why there was a extra metal and friction plate.

[wildacres00]

@dougspcs;

The actual slipping occurs in each gear from the moment you push the throttle. I get a lag from the time the engine speeds up to the time the bike moves. Once the bike is moving it will still slip once I hit the gas no matter what speed or gear.

The way I understand the centrifugal is if it is going bad you would have a difficult time putting the bike into gear from neutral to first gear and after that the manual clutch governs the way the bike responds.

[wildacres00]

One other thing I noticed was that the bike operates seemingly fine in reverse for what it's worth.

[barnett468]

Hello


Did you save the old clutches and discs so you can compare thickness?

Do you have or can you borrow a set of calipers or mics to check thickness?

[barnett468]

One other thing I noticed was that the bike operates seemingly fine in reverse for what it's worth.


Hello

That's typically because there is less load on the clutch due to the ratio of reverse gear compared to first etc..

[wildacres00]

I did save them and I have a mic and caliper to measure them with. Really glad I didn't throw them away when I was done because I almost did. I have the extra plate I can measure in the mean time and reference that with the old plate along with the service manual until I get enough time to break it down all the way.

[barnett468]

Hello

Most xlnt good job.

Now here's the problem. Even if your new plate measures thinner than the old plate it doesn't mean anything because the new steel plates might simply be thicker than the original ones to compensate for the new thinner discs, tricky huh!


Clean oily disc well at measurement point.

If you have 1 extra fiber plate you should have one xtra metal plate, do you?

You didn't happen to put a metal plate on LAST did you?

[wildacres00]

I do have 1 extra metal plate and 1 extra fiber plate.

The last plate I put on was a fiber plate.

Yeah I get where you are going with the plate thickness. I for some reason remember thinking that the new metal plates seemed thicker than the old ones and that the fiber plates seemed about the same size. When I stacked the new plates I still had room for one more plate, I thought it was weird and double checked with the service manual the proper number of plates as well as there sequence.

The more I think about it the more I believe that I am going to have to tear it apart and give it a good inspection. The question after that is do I spend 12$/plate at Bike Bandit for OEM plates or do I try to reassemble it and hope I screwed up somewhere? I paid 47$ for the new set so it's not alot of money but still it sucks to have to spend an extra 100$ for OEM.

If I combine both of the measurements of the metal and fiber plate together and if they are greater than the service manual specs would it still be OK?

[barnett468]

Hello

Slightly thicker is good, slightly thinner is bad but just measure them. The OVERALL assy must be equal to or greater than the original.

Tell us what it is. Multiply the number of one disc and one plate from new and used set by the number you took out and the number you put in, what is it?

Check the springs.

Either find out what is wrong with what you have and fix it or buy original plates AND SPRINGS and hope this is the problem. Orig is best but what do you have now as far as total plates and thickness?

[wildacres00]

I'll check it out tonight. I won't be able to take the bike apart until later this week. Thanks

[Howdy]

Test the clutches to find which one is bad.
How to test:
If the clutch don't engage until higher RPMs and then is fine it's you centrifical clutch.
From a dead stop: put the machine in 3rd or 4th gear and hit the gas. If the motor revs up but the machine don't take off much then it's you manual clutch.

If it's the manual slipping:
It is possibly the pressure plate for the clutch disk isn't seated correctly on the groves. The Fix: Pull the clutch, remove and turn the back plate 1/4 turn and see if the clutch pack closes tight and the plates won't turn. You should be able to squeeze the clutch pack together ( front and back pressure plates ) with one hand tight enough that the disk won't turn. If any disk does turn you probably have other issues to deal with.
Howdy

[wildacres00]

I was able to measure the spare metal and fiber plate along with the used clutch plates.

------------- NEW ------------- OLD

Metal plate:--- .056"----------- .054"
Fiber plate: --- .120"----------- .106"
Spring:-------- ?---------------- 34 mm

I cross-referenced these numbers versus the service manual and found them to be acceptable. I will have to take the motor apart to check what the new springs will measure.

Howdy;
Which disc are you speaking of, The metal plates? Also it is slipping from a dead stop and also when I'm moving down the road and punch the gas it is slipping, so I'm not sure which it is.
I thought the centrifugal clutch engages and disengages the engine to the transmission each time a gear is shifted and then the manual clutch takes over to connect the engine to the transmission during the revving of the engine?

[dougspcs]

No now I'm getting a different spin on your issue I'm agreeing with Howdy.

The centrifugal clutch is the one you feel 'hit' when you drop from neutral into gear..if it doesn't 'hit' until you rev up the engine then you're not chasing a manual clutch issue but the centrifugal..

Take a good look at that primary clutch..

[wildacres00]

Not really sure what to look at on the primary. I can take some measurements but everything looked good when I changed out the one way clutch and shoes.

[dougspcs]

I know you said you scuffed the centrifugal drum up a bit to remove the glazing..

I always just look for a replacement primary when I have problems so I don't know this but is there a service limit listed in the manual for the drum?

If so it may be out of spec and needing replacement.

[wildacres00]

There are some specs on the drum and the shoes. I'll give them a check when I break it down.

[Howdy]

The back ( manual as I call it ) clutch has 3 main parts. The ones I am talking about is #2 and #6 in the picture. The grooves on #2 is where the 5 steel plates fit on. I have seen the grooves on #2 and #6 didn't match up unless I turned #6 1/4 of a turn. Then they matched properly.


How many steel and fiber plates did you install? You have to have 5 of each.


Did you do the clutch test yet?
Howdy

[wildacres00]

I have not taken the bike apart yet. I installed 5 fiber plates and 4 steel plates. The pic shows that you need 5 fiber plates and 4 steel plates also or am I missing something? When I break it apart I will definitely look to see if both pressure plates are meshing properly. Thanks

[Howdy]

I have not taken the bike apart yet. I installed 5 fiber plates and 4 steel plates. The pic shows that you need 5 fiber plates and 4 steel plates also or am I missing something? When I break it apart I will definitely look to see if both pressure plates are meshing properly. Thanks

yep 5 and 4 is correct. I was busy when I posted that and posted it wrong.
Howdy

[barnett468]

I have not taken the bike apart yet. I installed 5 fiber plates and 4 steel plates. The pic shows that you need 5 fiber plates and 4 steel plates also or am I missing something? When I break it apart I will definitely look to see if both pressure plates are meshing properly. Thanks


There are some specs on the drum and the shoes. I'll give them a check when I break it down.


Hello


Here’s what your new clutch thickness is doing.

------------- NEW ------------- OLD

Metal plate:--- .056"----------- .054"
Fiber plate: --- .120"----------- .106"
Spring:-------- ?---------------- 34 mm

New 5 x .056 = .280 + 4 x .120 = .480 = .760

Old 5 x .054 = .270 + 4 x .106 = .424 = .694


.760 (new clutch assy thickness) - .694 (used clutch assy thickness) = .066 which is the amount of additional preload the new clutch plates are putting on either set of clutch springs over the previous worn clutch plates. The total preload on new springs vs the previous springs is currently unknown and may be too low.

.694 (worn clutch assy) + .014 (estimated clutch wear) = .708 (estimated thickness of new OEM clutch assy) subtracted from .760 (new ebay clutch assy thickness) = .052 amount of additional preload on clutch springs over estimated OEM original clutch assy thickness.


1. Since you claim your inner clutch hub is smooth it is unlikely to be worn out of spec and therefore is likely not the problem, but as suggested it’s a great idea to check it.

2. If in fact your centrifugal clutch shoes are OEM as you think they might be they are definitely not the problem. Do you still have the package they came in?

3. Since the total of the thickness of your new clutches is .052 greater than the estimated thickness of an oem set of clutches, the thickness of your new clutches is not the problem.

4. Since the thickness of your new clutches is .052 thicker then the estimated thickness of OEM clutches the new clutches increase the preload on the previous springs by .052 over what stock would be. This amount is more than enough to compensate for any loss of preload to the original spring by years of compression and heat cycles etc. so the original springs are not likely the cause of your problem. I know you are using your new springs now so this is why I wanted you to measure their length and pressure compared to the previous ones the best you could.

5. Since your clutch does at least work it is unlikely that the discs are hanging up on your clutch hubs.


SUMMARY

Based on the info you have provided it looks to me on the surface that your slipping problem is most likely caused by one or more of the following problems which in addition to measuring the diameter of the inside of the centrifugal clutch hub and looking for an obvious problem I personally would address in the following order. Others would do it differently.


1. 2 metal and 2 fiber discs together. Suggest visual inspection without disassembling clutch assy.

2. New clutch disc springs are weaker and/or shorter than OEM. Suggest reinstalling previous springs or buying OEM if available or increasing spring preload on new springs by approximately .020 using “AN” [thin wall] washers.

3. Centrifugal clutch shoes not expanding completely for some reason. Suggest checking pivots and reinstalling previous springs if you replaced them.

Did you replace the springs on the centrifugal clutch also? If so I suggest using previous springs since in this case a weaker spring is better. Reducing the spring pressure [tension] on a centrifugal clutch allows the clutch shoes to do the following.

a. Begin engagement at a lower RPM.

b. Have full engagement [so to speak] at a lower RPM ie, engage firmly enough to a point where they will not slip under high loads.

c. Reduce the RPM range [the engagement curve] over which initial to “full” engagement occurs.


4. Inadequate friction material on fiber clutch discs [as suggested by Dougspcs] ie “they suck”. Suggest replacing with OEM.

[barnett468]

The centrifugal shoes were replaced. I bought them from a different seller on e-bay. The packaging looked OEM to me but I did not verify the company name prior to installation.


Hello


If you no longer have your original package for your centrifugal clutch shoes you can easily determine whether by comparing them to the following photos.

OEM shoe friction material is dark brown and smooth and hard. It is hard to dig a fingernail into.

Aftermarket shoe friction material is orange [the wife says shrimp, peach or salmon. I told her I wasn’t gonna use any of those words to describe it here, lol] and possibly has a rougher surface possibly caused by being surfaced with a more abrasive material and/or from being made from a material that is more susceptible to “tearing” when being sanded/surfaced etc. Many if not all of the clutches I have seen that have friction material that looks like this are fairly easy to dig a fingernail into, whatever that really determines as far as it’s friction capabilities are concerned.



There are some specs on the drum and the shoes. I'll give them a check when I break it down.


Centrifugal clutch shoe friction material thickness spec is .120”, service limit .112”.

Drum id spec is 5.50”, service limit 5.520”.

Spring spec is 34.98 mm-34 mm min, 1.377”-1.340” min. At 34 mm your previous springs are ok. Since this is a reduction of length of .037” and your new clutches are .052 thicker as an assembly then the estimated thickness of an OEM assembly your previous springs would still be preloaded by .015 more than they would be with an OEM clutch assy. Your spring preload with the previous springs is not the cause of your slipping problem.


OEM MANUAL CENTRIFUGAL CLUTCH SPECS PG 8-1

http://www.kb0nly.info/ATC/index.php?dir=ATC250SX%2F


OEM CENTRIFUGAL CLUTCH PHOTO

http://www.cmsnl.com/atc200es-big-red-usa_model963/shoe-clutch_22461ke4771/


AFTERMARKET CENTRIFUGAL CLUTCH PHOTO

http://www.lakeregionrepair.com/eshopprod_cat_8193-28436_product_1348085.PARTS_UNLIMITED_CENTRIFUGAL_ CLUTCH_SHOES.htm

[barnett468]

I thought the centrifugal clutch engages and disengages the engine to the transmission each time a gear is shifted and then the manual clutch takes over to connect the engine to the transmission during the revving of the engine?


Hello


CENTRIFUGAL CLUTCH - No, the centrifugal clutch shoes are engaged and disengaged by engine RPM only.

ONE WAY BEARING/CLUTCH – This is fully engaged upon deceleration in gear only and is not designed to “slip”. It acts independently of the centrifugal clutch and releases at either low or 0 vehicle speed [I don’t remember which].

MANUAL CLUTCH – When used in conjunction with a centrifugal clutch [in an automatic system] this clutch is operated by the shifter and is designed to engage and disengage with minimal to no slip. Because it is designed to operate with minimal slip compared to the centrifugal clutch it is subjected to less wear when the vehicle is ridden in an RPM range that allows the centrifugal clutch to “slip” frequently otherwise if the vehicle is ridden at an RPM where the centrifugal clutch is mostly continually fully engaged and the engine is shifted frequently it is subjected to more wear when compared to the centrifugal clutch. .

[wildacres00]

I'll have to check if I have the package the shoes came in. Ill also check the thickness of the shoes in reference to the service manual.

The pivot point on the centrifugal clutch shoes is something I'll look at. They pivot in a set groove on the hub and don't think they can be installed improperly but who knows. Right now I'm doubting everything I did. I did not replace the centrifugal clutch springs.

Do you think I should install that spare friction and metal plate that came in the kit if nothing else is the obvious cause? Would the added plates do anything adverse to the bike?

Thanks for the help.

[wildacres00]

Does anybody have the measurements of a New OEM manual clutch pack? I wonder what the difference is between my cheap replacement and an OEM kit. The clutch does engage just not well. Maybe it's acting like a half worn clutch and needs a tighter adjustment. When adjusting the clutch how much tension should be felt before backing the screw off 1/4 turn?

[barnett468]

Hello



Does anybody have the measurements of a New OEM manual clutch pack?

You already said you looked it up yourself in the manual, see the quote below, plus I gave it to you in post #26. Read my post if you want the info quickly.

Below is the spec from the manual you claimed you looked up. There is no thickness spec for the metal plates only a “warpage” spec. Your metal plates are most likely not worn by more than .001 but in your case this is irrelevant since your new clutch assy is positively as thick as, or thicker than an OEM one according to the friction disc spec provided in the manual combined with the “known” typical wear encountered in the metal discs . I’m pretty sure my posts contain all the spec info you need to know but I could be wrong.

Manual clutch friction disc spec, new =.103-.109, service limit .091


I was able to measure the spare metal and fiber plate along with the used clutch plates.

------------- NEW ------------- OLD

Metal plate:--- .056"----------- .054"

Fiber plate: --- .120"----------- .106"

Spring:-------- ?---------------- 34 mm

I cross-referenced these numbers versus the service manual and found them to be acceptable. I will have to take the motor apart to check what the new springs will measure.

Xxxxx


I'll have to check if I have the package the shoes came in.

That would be helpful but not necessary. I told you how to EASILY tell if your centrifugal shoes are most likely OEM or not in post #27.

xxxxx


Ill also check the thickness of the shoes in reference to the service manual.

That info along with the online manual and page number for it is in post #27.

xxxxx


Do you think I should install that spare friction and metal plate that came in the kit if nothing else is the obvious cause?

One should easily be able to extrapolate that from the information I provided in posts #26 and #27.

My answer is no, others may vary.

xxxxx


Would the added plates do anything adverse to the bike?

Providing the discs fit on the hub and left enough room for the pressure plate to fully disengage and still have it’s splines penetrated by the inner hub by approximately .100” [get out your calculator it’s your turn now] it would at the very least increase the preload of your previous springs to a point where the amount of force required to manipulate the shifter would be substantially increased which might damage the shift shaft [unlikely] and the additional preload may also cause the springs to coil bind during activation [this would need to be calculated] which could limit the amount of movement in the shifter to a degree where it could not shift gears.

Xxxxx


Thanks for the help.

Well, I for one would feel more like I was helping if you did not ask questions that were already answered in my posts.

[wildacres00]

I do have the service manual and checked only the service limit not the standard (my fault). Not quite sure why aftermarket fiber plates would be that much larger than OEM?

Whether or not I have the package the shoes came in was a response to your question which you followed up by providing how to tell if they are OEM or not which I will find out once I break the bike down.

If I should install the spare plates was a "grasping at straws" question.

I am thanking you for the time and effort you are putting into my post and I do greatly appreciate it. I do read your replies but sometimes things get a little lost in translation as to the intent because some questions are "grasping at straws", "thinking off the top of my head" and playing a devil's advocate roll in trying to determine why a brand new clutch does not work and how come it failed even though the service limits were not exceeded. In the case of the friction plates they are well within tolerance and springs are at the bottom of there tolerance band but that should not of caused my issue.

[barnett468]

Hello wildacres00


I do have the service manual and checked only the service limit not the standard (my fault).


No problem

xxxxx

Not quite sure why aftermarket fiber plates would be that much larger than OEM?


It’s a conspiracy by the overseas people.

xxxxx

Whether or not I have the package the shoes came in was a response to your question which you followed up by providing how to tell if they are OEM or not which I will find out once I break the bike down.


Your statement regarding that was actually posted 1:40 minutes and 2 posts after I posted that info though so that’s one of the reasons I asked if you were reading the posts, that’s all.

xxxxx

I am thanking you for the time and effort you are putting into my post and I do greatly appreciate it.


No problem you’re welcome however I'm not the only one who is, there are others like Howdy and Dougspcs that seem to be putting in a good amount of time and effort as well.

xxxxx

I do read your replies but sometimes things get a little lost in translation as to the intent because some questions are "grasping at straws", "thinking off the top of my head" and playing a devil's advocate roll in trying to determine why a brand new clutch does not work and how come it failed even though the service limits were not exceeded.


I personally think that if most people read anyone’s reply [even mine]slowly and more than once that the info will start to sink in and make more sense the longer you spend on it.

xxxxx

In the case of the friction plates they are well within tolerance and springs are at the bottom of there tolerance band but that should not of caused my issue.


No they should not have caused your previous issue with the old clutches but as suggested your new springs might.

I previously posted some exact preload specs for your old springs when either the old used clutches, new aftermarket clutches or new OEM clutches are used with them. This information is in posts #26 and #27, lol.

Anyway your old springs are more than fine with the new clutches, and within spec as you know so should work fine with new OEM clutches or your old ones. I still might try them in place of the new ones and try that before I go buying new OEM ones if I find no other obvious problem.

[wildacres00]

Ok so I took the bike apart and found that the new springs were in fact undersized. They measured 33mm while the old springs measured 34mm. Needless to say I will be reinstalling the old springs as suggested above and give that a shot. Also took some measurements of the drum and clutch shoes and both were within spec.

[wildacres00]

These are some photos I took of the clutch system. The clutch spring on the left is the new spring and the spring on the right is the original spring. Also notice the difference between the clutch pack pics, the first one is the original pack and the other is the aftermarket pack. The difference between the two is noticeable in the pic and measured .060" total There is a pic of the one way clutch and it shows that there is "outside" stamped on it so you do not install it backwards. Some photos of the the centrifugal clutch shoes.

[barnett468]

Ok so I took the bike apart and found that the new springs were in fact undersized. They measured 33mm while the old springs measured 34mm. Needless to say I will be reinstalling the old springs as suggested above and give that a shot. Also took some measurements of the drum and clutch shoes and both were within spec.

Hello

Ok, that's a start unfortunately I can not view your photos like others for some reason, can you post them to flickr etc and paste a link, i'd like to see what you are talking about.


I told you how to tell if shoes are oem or not so are they?

Your short new springs are not guaranteed to be the problem but i'm glad you are reinstalling the originals. Did you do the spring finger pressure test to see if one was weaker or stronger than the other or did you FORGET, lol.?

[barnett468]

Hello wildacres00


1. It looks like the clutches do not stack up as high as photo 2 which is what I calculated so that’s ok but the pressure plate has more clearance from the face to the clutch disc why is that it looks incorrect.

2. this assy looks fine to me.

3. spring diameter looks nearly identical but hard to tell. Same diameter wire and turns means same spring rate but again I’d use old ones anyway.

4. can’t see well enough on my phone

5. does not show the inner hub surface but you neasured it so if it is smooth it is ok.

6. can’t tell true color of clutch discs so you will have to use my description and photos i supplied to determine if they are oem yourself.

[wildacres00]

The color of the shoes appear to be brown as you were saying before but is a little difficult since it was oil soaked. Also I could not remove any material with the finger nail, they are very tough.

The spring wire diameter appears to be the same.

The clutch pack does have some space to it. I checked it a couple of times a made sure it was together. I'll take a couple more photos later today. I also took a photo with the spare plates that came with the kit. I'm thinking if I installed the spare discs with the smaller springs that it might work. I'm not going to do that though, Im going to use the old springs with the pack the same as the service manual.

I'll have to figure out the Flikr account and post the photos and links. I'll do that this evening, it's a family day today LOL.

[barnett468]

It is possibly the pressure plate for the clutch disk isn't seated correctly on the groves. The Fix: Pull the clutch, remove and turn the back plate 1/4 turn and see if the clutch pack closes tight and the plates won't turn. You should be able to squeeze the clutch pack together ( front and back pressure plates ) with one hand tight enough that the disk won't turn. If any disk does turn you probably have other issues to deal with. Howdy


Hello


Ok, the photos finally sank in, as it sits on the table the above is your EXACT problem. See how high above the basket the clutch center is. Both assemblies have too much clearance from the disc to the clutch center. Remove ALL plates install the splines of the clutch center [outer hub] into the grooves of the pressure plate. They should EASILY go together and the clutch center should enter the splines on the pressure plate by around 1/4”-3/8”. If they engage themselves by LESS than ¼” then the splines are bad and need repair.

You can put a mark on the splines with a felt tip marker around 1/4” up to more easily see how far they engage each other.

Take a photo of the top of the clutch center.

Use old orig springs I guess but it might be slightly hard to shift. Try it before assy and if it is use the new springs.

Take some photos

Reassemble with clutches and do as Howdy suggested above before final assy.

[wildacres00]

I think I understand what you are talking about and it doesn't look good, seems like there is barely any engagement. When I attach the two pressure plates together Without the basket I get OK engagement. It seems that when I place the pressure plates into the basket it pushes the outer plate out too far. Let me know if there is any other pics that might help or if I'm totally wrong. The bottom of the black line is 1/4" from the tip of the splines.

[barnett468]

Hello


I still can’t see the photos on the site only ny phone so I can’t really see what’s going on so as far as I go I can’t help you any more than to suggest the following. It does look like from the mark on the hub that it is not penetrating the pressure plate at all in the photo, not good.

Take the thin pressure plate, put it on your counter, take a venier caliper, stand the caliper straight up, measure from the clutch disc seating surface to the bottom of the grooves. If you do not have a caliper cut a piece from a manila folder 1/2” X 3”, mark it with an ink pen at around 1/8”, 3/16” and 1/4”. The depth should be around .175” [3/16”] or more. Put a mark on your hub like you did with the felt tip pen in the photo but now at whatever the depth of the pressure plate is from clutch seating surface to bottom of groves is.

Now the hub must EASILY penetrate the pressure plate with 0 force by around .165”-.175”. Rotate the hub 1 spline at a time until it does then mark top of hub on outer edge and pressure plate so hopefully you see the marks to line them up together with discs on. Now keep rotating hub until it EASILY penetrates pressure plate fully again, then mark plate [not the hub] only so it lines up with mark on hub. Continue until you’ve gone around 1 full rotation. If the hub only fully engages like 5 times or less maybe file the splines lightly then until it works in several more positions. This will help insure proper engagement after assy and prevent hub from sticking [hanging up] during use and will also make future assy much easier.