1984 200es rear brake cover stuck

[YooperMan2012]

I'm trying to get the axle out to get it straightened, but I can't get the rear brake cover off. I removed the tire, wheel hub,2 drum nuts, taper washer, O-ring, brake cables from brake arm, and brake cover mounting bolts. It took over an hour to get the cover loose from the drum housing, but it is only about an 1/8" of separation and won't budge any further. I can spin the brake cover freely. Just trying to figure where it's hanging up. I picked up this big red a year ago and we went through & have her looking & running good. The axle is the last thing to get done. I saw this same problem on a different forum with no answer. Hope some one can help. Thanks, Jay

[kb0nly]

The brake shoes wear into the drum and create a lip that they have to get past to come out of that drum, the brake assembly is on the back side of the cover. Make sure the lever that the brake cables attach to is rotated all the way back, counterclockwise, wiggle it back and forth while pulling on the cover to try and wiggle the brake shoes out.

Normally the o-ring is what gets everyone, they remove the nuts and washer and forget the o-ring which binds up, but you got that out.

You might end up damaging the brake shoes and replacing them, but they aren't that expensive. Take a flat pry bar and work opposite sides to work it out, its just the brake shoes catching the outer edge of the drum.

[Larry T Moore]

Ive used a wide 2 flatblade screwdrivers on both sides and work it out a little at a time...

[dougspcs]

You could also have full or partial shoe separation which will only make matters more difficult..

I've had one or two that fought with me and once I finally got the drum off the friction material just fell on the floor.

Sounds like you are doing it right..

You might think about removing the actuator arm, this will let the pin slip back into the drum since it's what is holding the shoes..then as you pull the cover out the pin will slip inside and leave the shoes.

Once the cover is off you can remove the shoes and recover the pin..I did this once on my 250es when the drum wouldn't go because the shoe separated. It bought me a bit of movement and allowed me to get it apart.

Yours is the reverse design with the pin in front but it should still achieve the same ends..

Good luck..

[YooperMan2012]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I will try when I get time, family in town this week. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again.

[YooperMan2012]

OK, I finally have the brake cover off. 2 broken screwdrivers, 1 broken chisel, & 1/2 a can of PB Blaster later. I just kept working pry bars & chisels & every once & awhile it would pop & come out a little more. It fought me the whole way. I really think it was rusted together & that brings me to my new dilemma because the drum won't budge. My brother has a 1983 200E & his brake cover, drum & axle slid right off/out. He also said there was no rust on it. Maybe mine was driven through lots of water & not drained out of the water drain? I will need a brake cover gasket, shoes, & outer dust seal for sure. The bearing doesn't seem too bad. I was wondering if I should apply some heat to the collar where it meets the drum as it is all rusted right there. Thanks for any more tips/tricks. This is an awesome site. 3 Wheelers Rule!!

[barnett468]

Hello


Why do you want to heat the collar?

If you do not need to remove the collar or drum just wire brush them and leave them because it does not sound like either will come off easily.


This following is very Neanderthal, hopefully someone else has a more elegant technique.

COLLAR REMOVAL - If you need to remove the collar or the drum, I think you need to remove the collar first. Your brother can confirm this for you. If you have time buy some KROIL oil and spray it 3 times a day for at least 3 days then take a pipe wrench with sharp teeth and try to turn it. This might require a LOT of force. If it does not move soak it longer or if you are impatient then just heat the collar only with oxy/acetylene only, until it is barely red hot then let it cool 20 minutes and try the pipe wrench again. If it does not move then I doubt it ever will.


DRUM REMOVAL – Don’t hold your breath for this to happen. If you have time tip bike on side a bit or completely and spray axle at hub 3 times a day with KROIL. After 3 days take a new 4”-6” long real “vise grip” and grab drum and try to pull it off by alternating sides. Only new short vise grips will work because the teeth are razor sharp and won’t slip off easily and because the short ones are narrow the SHOULD not break the drum when you clamp them down tightly. If it doesn’t move you can put a large pair of vise grips on the jaws of the small vise grips and 90 degrees to the small vise grips then while holding the end of the big vise grips hit them from the back side with a hammer and pray.

If this doesn’t work then heat up the drum at the axle until it glows slightly red then try vise grips again while it is still hot and pray some more.

If it still does not come off then put on some safety glasses and an old jacket and heat it until it is cherry red then try the vise grips again. The high heat may cause the drum hub to crack or blow a piece off but that is unlikely.

You obviously MIGHT need another drum after this but the only reason to take it off is if you need a drum and/or need to re move the axle/gears etc. so it’s no great loss.

ALTERNATIVE PLAN – You might have enough room to slip a small single jaw slide hammer jaw between the drum and the housing if you die grind two 1/2” channels 180 degrees apart in the lip on the outside of the brake drum and alternate pulling light to moderately from one side to the other. If this doesn’t work then use heat technique and try again. Collar SHOULD be removed prior to this but it may work with collar in place.

[YooperMan2012]

I guess I have a few more questions. In the manual it says to remove the drum & then pound the axle out. Will it pound out without removing the drum? Also can it be pounded out either way or only in one direction? In the manual it looks like the are pounding it out from the right side to the left side. My axle is bent on the right side & would seem harder to pound the bend through everything. Thanks again, Jay.

[cwolfe]

hello, the two large nuts you took off earlier to remove the brakes are what keep the axle from walking out so there is only one direction the axle can go and that is while facing the rear end left away from the brake assem. i have taken several of these out and you do not need to remove the drum first i usually spray the splines front and back and then with a soft face hammer or wood block beat the end of the axle. just make sure you put a nut on the end of the axle shaft to keep from marring the threads. i.e the castle nut put on backwards so you dont break the tips off.sliding the axle out is usually the only way to break loose a frozen drum. also the drum is made of a weaker metal on 200es they are cast around a hardened piece and can break into pieces when they are beat on so when you put it back on i use grease on the splines to help it on and aid in removal in the future.

[YooperMan2012]

Thanks, I should have some time tomorrow to give it a try.

[YooperMan2012]

I put the axle nut on backwards & started pounding away. I used a block of wood & sledge hammer. The axle isn't moving at all. I don't know what to do now.

[barnett468]

Hello


I already gave you two suggestions above and you haven’t tried either one. You can wait and hope someone has a better one but as of now mine appears to be it. I have modified one of them slightly to better fit your CURRENT situation.


I suggest you read the following post very carefully because you seem to be in a very similar boat and require EXACTLY the same heating technique I recommended to this guy along with a sledging one.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/158430-86-250SX-rear-hub?highlight=sawfly


Part of the following is very Neanderthal, but as I mentioned no one else seems to have a better idea as of yet [but hopefully someone still will].

Use a piece of aluminum or brass at least 1/2” thick in place of the wood. The wood likely will not work in your particular case due to it’s softness. If you heat the brake drum get a piece of plain [unpainted and ungalvanized due to the potentially toxic fumes] flexible metal around 1 1/2” – 6” wide and at least 16” long from Home Depot. This will slip between the drum and aluminum drum housing to protect the housing from heat and flames.

COLLAR REMOVAL - It is best to remove the collar first instead of removing the collar and the drum simultaneously. If you have time buy some KROIL oil, tip your bike up on it's side a little or completely and spray the collar at the drum hub and axle 3 times a day for at least 3 days then take a pipe wrench with sharp teeth and try to turn the collar. This might require a LOT of force, try an extension [pipe] on the pipe wrench if necessary. If it does not move soak it for 3 more days then try it again.

If it doesn’t move then or you are impatient then just heat the collar only with oxy/acetylene only, until it is barely red hot then let it cool 20 minutes and try the pipe wrench again. If it does not move then install an extension [pipe] on the handle and try again. If it still does not move then proceed to next step.

Put on some safety glasses and an old jacket and heat it until it becomes bright cherry red and continuing heating for around 15 seconds then immediately try the sledge while it is still red hot. If it does not move then wait 20 minutes, install the pipe wrench with an extension [pipe] on the handle and try again. If it still does not move then proceed to next step.

DRUM REMOVAL COLD – Don’t hold your breath for this to happen. If you have time tip bike on it’s side a bit or completely and spray collar and drum hub 3 times a day with “KROIL” oil. You can use PB Blaster but it doesn’t work nearly as well. After 3 days whack it with a sledge. If it doesn’t move soak for 3 more days and try again. If it still doesn’t move use the heat technique below.[/quote]

DRUM OR DRUM AND COLLAR REMOVAL WITH HEAT – Using oxy/acetylene only, HEAT both the collar and the entire drum hub until both glow slightly red then try sledge again. If it does not move then proceed to next step below.

If it still does not come off with the technique above then put on some safety glasses and an old jacket and heat until both become bright cherry red and continuing heating for around 15 seconds then try the sledge again. It will move 99.999% guaranteed. This is the last resort I told the other guy to do and although he did not get it as hot as I told him he MUST [because he was still trying to save his hub after I told him he couldn’t reuse it after getting it that hot] he still got it off then seemed unhappy at his success because he bent his junk hub in the process and couldn’t reuse it EXACTLY as I CLEARLY told him he couldn’t. Seemed like a very strange reaction to success to me.

WARNING - The high heat may cause the drum hub to crack or blow a piece off but that is unlikely. Either way, It, along with ANY rubber seals nearby WILL BE TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY JUNK AND UNUSABLE 100% GUARANTEED, lol.


You SHOULD positively replace the drum after this irregardless of how it looks.


If the technique above does not work I suggest soaking it for two more weeks with KROIL oil ONLY because PB Blaster will no longer be good enough for your problem] and try removing starting from step 1 again.