200x with no spark

[BigRed250sx]

Hey boys,

I just picked up an 85 Honda 200x from a kid at work. He said he picked it up on a trade and couldnt get it running. It needs some TLC for sure but before I put too much money into it I want to see the motor run. As of right now there is no spark. He told me he thinks the pulse generator is bad. When he showed it to me the spark advancer was in the housing just flopping around. When I got it home I pulled it apart again and set the spark advancer in place hoping it would come to life, no luck. Is there anything else holding the spark advancer into place or just the brake shoe looking things? The pulse generator is magnetized, I could feel it holding on to the spark advancer. The ignition coil and CDI box are hooked up and the connections seem to be clean. I've never had a 200x before and I am not sure about the kill switch by the throttle. Why are there no wires going to it? Any tricks I should try? If I get my meter out where should I start and what readings am I looking for? Hopefully I have given you folks enough information to get me started. Thank you

[yaegerb]

Kill switch by the throttle? Your kill switch should be on the left side of your handlebars and yes there should be two wire bundles going to it. Got any pictures you can post?

[BigRed250sx]

Yeah, that's what I said! There is your regular everyday Honda kill switch with the headlight switch on the left side. I think there is just one bundle of wires going into that. Then on the right side, connected to the throttle housing there is another one! Not sure if someone put a make shift throttle on it or what, but it is there and there are no wires going to it. I will try my best to get a picture of it tomorrow and put it up.

[ps2fixer]

I'd say to download the service manual for it and make sure the wiring is all hooked up (sounds like most or all is). Then within the service manual it will tell you where to OHM to test the coils. The pulse generator coil, lighting coil, and exciter coil can all be tested/OHMed, I just did it on a 200x I bought around a month ago. If you need parts, I have a machine I'm going to be parting out. Only major problem with it is the engine smokes badly and leaks oil, and of course plastic and brakes. It's Exciter coil is bad, but the other 2 coils are fine. Going to need the head for the other machine that came with it (exhaust studs are shot on the rider :().

[BigRed250sx]

So I just got in from doing some OHM testing. The Pulser coil was showing 89 which is within specs. Then I am not sure but the lighting coil and the exciter coil are the two wires coming out of the side of the case correct? They were showing me some numbers when I could get a good ground. And I could not get anything out of the primary or secondary coil on the ignition coil. Is this telling me to start with an 11 dollar coil to see if that is my problem?

[ps2fixer]

Make sure the ground on the coil is good, I don't think the primary and secondary coils normally go out at the same time, but then again I never OHMed a bad coil.

Coils are fairly interchangeable from other machines, my 200x has a 185s coil in it, mainly because the spark plug wire was better on it :). Just for testing reasons you could wire up just about any atv coil if you have any laying around just to verify that is what is going on.

[BigRed250sx]

I've got an 85 Fourtrax 250 sitting around, maybe I could nab the coil off of that and give it a try, if not my friend across town has a 200es with a brand new coil on it. We'll just take it one step at a time, that's the only way to do it when you're dealing with an electircal system. Thank you

[ps2fixer]

I looked up the 85 Fourtrax 250 coil, and it is a different design, same type as the 250es/sx coils. The 200ES has the same type of coil has the 200x though. No point in spending money if you can swap parts with another known working machine for testing :).

[BigRed250sx]

Hey psfixer, that's great man. Thanks alot for looking that up. I'll have my buddy bring that coil over the next time he comes over.

[ps2fixer]

Not a problem at all.

I just noticed your username, and I have a "250SX Big Red" :D. Here is a couple of photos you might like :P.

[BigRed250sx]

Very nice, I like those back wheels!

I started checking the ohms on the wheeler, but my meter isnt working the way that it should. I got my test light out and put it on the stator to see if it would light it up. It lite up the lighting coil, but the exciter coil did not light up. Should it light up with a test light? Does this mean the exciter coil is burned out?

[BigRed250sx]

Very nice, I like those back wheels!

I started checking the ohms on the wheeler, but my meter isnt working the way that it should. I got my test light out and put it on the stator to see if it would light it up. It lite up the lighting coil, but the exciter coil did not light up. Should it light up with a test light? Does this mean the exciter coil is burned out?

[ps2fixer]

Proper test is with the multimeter. The test light should be hooked up after the 12v regulator as it can put out 30v+. I'm not sure what kind of voltage the exciter coil puts out, might be too low for the light to light up, and besides that, it isn't designed for lighting up a light, but to charge the coil to create a spark. Radio Shack has new multimeter for ~$15 and they seem to last pretty well.

[BigRed250sx]

Ok, good to know. I took the stator out to have a look at the coils. One was really black and the other was a nice copper color. Any way to tell which one is the exciter coil and which one is the lighting coil?

[ps2fixer]

Typically the large one is the lighting coil, other one is the exciter coil.

Can you post a photo of it? Black like burned, or does it look like it was made black?

[BigRed250sx]

Here are the pictures you guys asked for. 1) the bike in its current state 2) the out of place kill switch 3) the lighting and exciter coils

[BigRed250sx]

Ive put the stator back in and made sure all of the connections were connected and clean. My friend brought over the coil off of his 200es and we could get it to spark every now and then. The spark was not very strong or frequent,but we did see spark. Any thoughts? Any ideas?

[ps2fixer]

Interesting, does it do the same with the original 200x coil? If it does, my gut is telling me the CDI, but you haven't gotten a good reading on the exciter coil either so that is possible issue too. I'm not 100% sure, but the big red CDI might match up to the 200x, might not run right, but should give good spark if that was the problem. Also the plug your using, is it an old one? I had similar problems in the past where I could see a good white spark, but it wasn't very often, turned out to be a bad spark plug.

[BigRed250sx]

I'll get ahold of a good multimeter tomorrow so I can check the exciter coil the right way. I did change the spark plug so there should not be a problem with that. The coil that was on it was a BS-41 the one from the 200es is a AS-41. Does anyone have the OHM readings for the single round plug CDI? I looked at the online manual for an 85 and it shows a double square plug for the CDI.

[BigRed250sx]

Ok so now we are on to the next step, somewhere along the road of fiddling with coils and spark plugs WE HAVE SPARK! But it still will not start. I slapped on one of those cheap 23 dollar carbs off ebay, so ive got fuel and spark and air but all it will do is spudder when I try to pop start it. The kick start is pretty much junk at this point. What is the next step? timing? And if so how to I go about doing that? Rotate the pusle generator until it tries to run better?

[ps2fixer]

There are 2 types of timing, mechanical (piston/valves) and spark timing (the cdi pickup in this case). It is possible that the timing chain is worn out and skipped a tooth. It isn't as common that the CDI pickup isn't in the correct location unless someone tampered with it. Also a general FYI on the chinese carbs, sometimes they are not a direct bolt on and go, they are jetted a bit lean some times. The service manual gives instructions on checking the timing.

[BigRed250sx]

Thanks for the info. I was pretty sure the jap carb would need some sort of attention, it seems to be pretty chinsey. As for the timing I know the spark advancer and the pulse generator have been played with. I'm not sure if there is any adjusting to the spark advancer and I have tried to rotate the pulse generator back and forth to see if I could get any results. So far no results. I'll check out the service manual to check on the mechanical timing. Thanks again