1986 Big Red Clutch

[rangerhd]

Hello All, I just posted up in the introduction area. I have a technical question.

When going through the gears on my big red and I hold the shifter down (when down shifting) and hold the shifter up (when upshifting) and apply the throttle the trike moves forward as though I had released the gear shifter. When holding the shifter up or down without releasing it should be in a "clutch" engaged position and it is as though the trike is already in gear. Any ideas on this? It kind of reminds me of the electric shifter on my foreman 450es where you do not have the opportunity to "coast" out of gear between gears. Hope this makes sense.

[barnett468]

Hello rangerhd



How long has it done that?

Did you change anything including oil that might have caused it?


I would first set adjustment per manual in the link below. If this does not help I would change my oil to one designed for a 4 stroke with a wet clutch if it doesn't already have that type in it or if the oil is old or noticeably dirty.

http://www.kb0nly.info/ATC/index.php

[tri again]

Great thoughts Barnett.

I'm trying to understand a bit better Ranger.
If you hold up or down on the shifter, as I understand,
it's like holding in on a manual clutch lever and you can actually 'slip the clutch'
if you let off slowly.
At least that's the way some of mine work, some don't and I never bothered
to figure out why.

So on yours?
If you hold up or down on the shifter, like you say, it should almost be in neutral
but wants to creep fwd?
Sure doesn't sound bad so try the clutch adjust first (free and easy)

Nice machine btw.
Pls keep us posted as we all need to know the answer.

[Flyingw]

The first question is... have you adjusted the clutch with the adj screw on the clutch cover? The essence of the auto-clutch is a cam and arm assembly that's connected to the end of the shift shaft. When you move the shift lever up oir down, the arm on the end of the shift shaft moves a cam which moves a lever that pushes on the clutch disengaging it. The gap between the arm and the clutch is critical for proper clutch operation. As you turn the screw on the clutch cover, it either widens or narrows the gap. That gap is what dictates how much the clutch disengages when the shift lever is moved. The book says to turn the screw CCW until the resistance is felt. Whats happening is turning the screw moves that arm to where it touches the clutch. Then the book says to back the screw off CW about 1/4 turn establishing the correct gap which is establishing the correct amount the clutch is disengaged when the shift lever is moved. The point here is to be sure the clutch is adjusted correctly. If after adjusting the clutch and you still have a problem then the next course of action is to pull the clutch cover and inspect the arm, cam, and lever parts of the auto-clutch and since you have the cover off would be a good time to replace the clutch plates if you don't know whe the last time they were replaced.

[rangerhd]

I have not adjusted anything at this time. One other thing that was mentioned to me was the clutch springs getting weak. Do you think this could be an issue as well? I have heard that was a problem for older trikes. Oil is Honda OEM. I will also try to adjust the screw on the clutch cover and see if that helps.

The big question is, any harm to the trike in the way it is functioning now?

[tri again]

Good question.
Don't take this too seriously but a few of mine slip as they should and some don't.

Has not made anything worse in years of loving abuse, aka working them hard out of necessity.
Sure is waaay more conforting to know they are working correctly.
If you don't NEED the trike for 'work' as we do, certainly best to
get it right.

The search key is also a great resource.
...say ' 86 es clutch' and then read all the posts.
You'll get tons of info in one click, including the catastrophic failures, which, thankfully, is very rare
Have you had it very long?
Is it new to you?
Any chance someone put in some sort of oil additive in there?
...always considered something to NOT do.

[barnett468]

Hello rangerhd




I have not adjusted anything at this time. I will also try to adjust the screw on the clutch cover and see if that helps.

That’s the first step as previously mentioned, that’s most likely the cause.

You forgot to mention how long this has been going on.





One other thing that was mentioned to me was the clutch springs getting weak. Do you think this could be an issue as well? I have heard that was a problem for older trikes.

If the springs were weak the clutch would slip under hard acceleration, does it do that also?

Weak springs will not cause your lack of full disengagement problem.





Oil is Honda OEM.

Ok, the oil is not the problem then.





The big question is, any harm to the trike in the way it is functioning now?

It’s best to fix it properly, this can make it harder on the gears at the very least.

[Flyingw]

Do you have the factory manual ranger? if not, download it here for free.

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

[rangerhd]

Thanks for the link. I actually have the original manual for it. But I bought an 87 250sx the day after I found the Big Red that I do not think have the manual for.

I have had the trike for two weeks now and it has been doing it since I bought it but didn't really pay any attention to it until I was playing around with the clutch engagement yesterday.

[barnett468]

Hello rangerhd




Thanks for the link. I actually have the original manual for it. But I bought an 87 250sx the day after I found the Big Red that I do not think have the manual for.

The link I posted in post 2 has most the Honda manuals. They load in 60 seconds, the ones from oscar mayer take 10 minutes on my computer.





I have had the trike for two weeks now and it has been doing it since I bought it but didn't really pay any attention to it until I was playing around with the clutch engagement yesterday.

Do you mean the adjustment or just by the shifter?

[rangerhd]

I found a video on adjusting the clutch adjustment screw.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_doQ2-Ldko

[tri again]

Just an odd thought that has been mentioned before.

Sometimes the shifter, if bent a little,
can drag on the engine case and ALways a good idea to
make sure the external shift shaft is not loose on the
splines.
Not really related to yuor issue, just stuff we see.

[rangerhd]

Do you mean the adjustment or just by the shifter?

Shifter....I was going to pop the clutch to do a wheelie.

I found a nice youtube video that shows you how to adjust that screw. I posted it but it needs moderator approval first.

[SUPERTEX]

Sorry about this out there post but after watching the above video on clutch adjusting i noticed right by the pull rope cover and shifter theres a pin or something with a N sticker there on my 200es that pin is sticking out about a quarter inch than one appears to be flat on the pull rope cover, is this a problem for my machine? And sorry agagin for droping this in the wrong post but the video was here where i noticed it.

[kebby28]

Its just gear indicator. Originally there is a red arrow piece on the little splined shaft that you described that will point to neutral when in neutral.

[dougspcs]

I have experienced this on several machines I've bought that have sat for prolonged periods..the clutch plates stick together so it feels like they don't disengage.

In answer to your question about the weak springs..if this were the case the clutch would slip from insufficient clutch pressure.

Second, if you continue to operate like this for prolonged periods..yes it certainly could damage your transmission.

You said it had Honda OEM oil in it, is this from the PO word? Or did you do it? Change the oil again and ride the machine for about an hour with lots of shifting..I'd lay money down it goes away.

Of course do the adjustment as per the manual also!!

[SUPERTEX]

Thanks Kebby for the info now that you said that i can see the piece on the video i guess my machine is missing it, funny how that happens after you say it i see it now, i wonder where i could get one at? But thanks again and sorry for the off topic post.

[rangerhd]

I am happy to report that the clutch adjustment screw recommendation fixed it right up! Works exactly like it is supposed to. Thank you for helping me solve this problem!

[SUPERTEX]

Hey Rangerhd where is the adjustment screw on the 250es because it is not set up like the 200e in the video and i have both types of machines, i was looking for it on mine today and i think i found it on my 250es but i wanted to make sure, is it on the right crank case and its a bit bigger set screw then on the 200e?

[barnett468]

Hello SUPERTEX



where is the adjustment screw on the 250es because it is not set up like the 200e in the video

On right side of engine, remove item #39, loosen nut #9 adjust screw #17 in parts fiche below.


http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-atc250es-big-red-1985_model18563/partslist/E__0500.html#results

[SUPERTEX]

thanks barnett for the helpful info