200ES motor trouble [Archive]

200bigredrebel

07-17-2013, 04:01 AM

hey guys, i finally got my tank repaired and with last bit of cash i had left over. i bought a new carb for my 1984 200ES cause i was having issues with my old one. but now it seems like they have carried over after the swap. :( now its got me thinking it could be something else than the carb. anyway, what its doing is that when the three wheeler starts its at very high idle and stays there. it will not idle down until i pull the choke. i have no throttle control. the thumb lever is very loose and gives the carb no response at all. :crazy: i made no adjustments in the carb. the throttle cable is old, but is free and didn't seem to have any issues. it feels like the throttle cable is to long??? :wondering cause it seems like when u move the thumb lever to max u can hear the slide move in the top of the carb when the 3 wheeler is shut off.

the piping that connects to from air box to carb and then on to motor seems to be good condition for a 20 years of age. i put fresh gas in it. fresh fuel filter. am at a loss with this problem. its starting to feel like i'm beating a dead horse. Hoosier Daddy so any help with this is beyond thankful. :)

-Clint

deuce228

07-17-2013, 11:08 AM

Just curious... Is the diverter valve free and clear? Was the fuel filter added before trying to run on the new carb?

kb0nly

07-17-2013, 11:44 AM

200bigredrebel

07-17-2013, 03:00 PM

Just curious... Is the diverter valve free and clear? Was the fuel filter added before trying to run on the new carb?

i added the filter when i put in the carb. for the diverter valve where is it located?

200bigredrebel

07-17-2013, 03:10 PM

Sounds like you have the slide in wrong, it will go in two ways, but only one way is the correct way! If you look at the carb slide one side has a notch that goes towards the idle set screw, the other side has a long notch that goes on a guide pin in the carbs slide bore.

If you put it in wrong the throttle won't work and it won't settle down closed to the idle position.

when i put the slide together i put the long notch to idle screw side. i almost did put the slide in the wrong. but once i turned it around it fit smoothly into the carb bore. i can't figure why its acting this way. i also noticed that the idle screw is set out pretty far. could this be part of the problem?

200bigredrebel

07-17-2013, 03:19 PM

here is a before and after pic of the carb swap. maybe there something i missed that u can see.

173441173442

kb0nly

07-17-2013, 07:45 PM

Screw the idle screw out, counterclockwise a ways see if the speed drops. They usually put the screws in pretty far to avoid them falling out and getting lost.

kebby28

07-17-2013, 09:28 PM

Double check your slide. Make sure its clean and the needle didn't get bent or banged up. back out your idle screw till the slide sits all the way down.

200bigredrebel

07-18-2013, 12:19 AM

thanks guys, :) i'll try these suggestions out and see what turns up. i'll post with the results asap.

thanks again, -Clint

200bigredrebel

07-19-2013, 01:48 AM

update,

and the news isn't good... =( i checked the slide again. the slide is in good shape as well the needle. so no problem there. i backed the idle screw as far as possible and fit the slide in the carb bore. it went in smoothly with no trouble. i checked the throttle cable and it work correctly. so i put the gas tank back in and tried to start it. it didn't start any, so i pulled the choke out about 1/2 an inch. after a couple of pulls it started and this time it ran faster, like it was running at full throttle. i didn't try to work the throttle because it was running very high. it was making some black somke at first but cleared up. then i noticed it, right were the exhaust pipe connects to the motor its leaking exhaust. i noticed it cause when the smoke was black u could see leaking out. i tried to tighten the bolts holding the exhaust pipe mounts to the motor. but they didn't budge and i didn't want to risk snapping a bolt in the head.

anyway, i haven't ran it any cause even though i'm green i know it ain't a good when u have exhaust leaking from the head. i feel like i really landed myself in the thick of it this time...

here is a pic of the head. maybe there a solution in there somewhere. 173467

thank u for any help u can give. -Clint

kb0nly

07-19-2013, 02:25 AM

Ok as for the high engine speed... Did you replace the o-ring on the front of the carb and the o-ring between the head and the rubber intake?? Those o-rings harden with age, if you didn't replace them they are likely leaking, which in turn means its running lean and will rev up with the extra air its getting ahead of the carb.

As for the exhaust... Get your self some PB Blaster, soak those studs and nuts good a couple times a day for a few days if you have to, carefully try to work the nut a little loose then back to tight, go back and forth a few times until you start to get some play and keep working them off the studs. Its a pain if you break one to fix it but its not the end of the world. Your probably going to need a new exhaust gasket, looks like a copper donut. The old one will be squished so flat in there you won't even know its there, get it picked out and replace it. If you have to go get a thread die and run it over the studs, get some new nuts and bolt it back up.

The black smoke was probably just because of the carb/fuel/air problem, and it was just leaking because the gasket is leaking on the exhaust. The fact that you now had to use the choke tells me you got the slide to go down all the way when you backed off the idle set screw.

Keep at it, you will get it!

200bigredrebel

07-19-2013, 11:39 AM

thanks for the info kb0nly,

a new o-ring came with the carb for the carb side. but the rubber intake's o-ring is old. and i'll see what i can do for the exhaust ring.

thanks again for the help. -Clint

kb0nly

07-20-2013, 12:55 AM

And the intake to head o-ring is usually the one that goes bad for me.. LOL Thats because it takes more engine heat being against the head. You can get a new o-ring easy without having to buy a specific one from Honda. Take your old one to an auto parts store or Napa, I usually go to Napa because they have a big assortment box of o-ring sizes and they generally have ones that are a bit fatter than stock, which seals up really good once tightened down.

200bigredrebel

07-20-2013, 01:56 AM

thanks Kb0nly, =) i'll try that asap. its been killing me that i can't get the rings for it right off the bat. i've been working on this trike so long and now to be so close that its driving me nuts. lol :lol:

thanks for the tip, -Clint

kb0nly

07-20-2013, 02:46 AM

Trust me I know. I had to wait for parts for a week once. No riding... About went nuts!

200bigredrebel

07-20-2013, 03:17 AM

i think i have went nuts. i've been waiting overall about 10 years now. to get it running good enough to ride. lol :lol: and now to be only 2 o-rings from getting to. i look at my wallet with this face i swear. lol Dammit

kb0nly

07-20-2013, 12:08 PM

LOL.... I know the feeling. Don't give up is the main thing.

Hey look at it this way.. It runs! So your over half way there!

200bigredrebel

07-21-2013, 12:39 AM

ya, i know. as soon as i can get these o-rings i'm going hop right on it. lol its just a matter time. =)

200bigredrebel

07-22-2013, 04:06 PM

update,

alright, i finally got a o-ring for the intake. haven't got the exhaust ring yet. but after installing it i decided to start the trike. it still running very high. but the smoke it was making has reduce a lot. i felt of the throttle lever and it is still very loose and the carb slide won't move tell the lever is at near max. ???

were i haven't changed the exhaust ring could this be the reason its still running high?

thanks for any help u can give.
-Clint

kb0nly

07-23-2013, 06:52 PM

The exhaust gasket isn't going to affect the engine idle speed or such... Still got a carb/cable issue for sure.

If it was me at this point, i would tear the carb off again or at least take the top cap off and pull out the carb slide and figure out whats going on. If you take that out and hold the cap in your hand and then push the throttle do you see the the cable pull the slide closer to the cap and compress the spring? Does it have the long spring between the slide and the cap?

Also, check the rubber gasket in the cap, that needs to seal it to the top of the carb bore also. The fact that you push the throttle and it doesn't make any difference tells me your slide is floating above idle, so you have to overcome the slack in the cable before it starts to move it.

200bigredrebel

07-23-2013, 09:22 PM

update,

i found something. one thing was i that found was that the throttle cable has alot of slack in the cable. but when i took the carb cap off it pulled all the slack out of it. and the throttle lever was operating correctly. creating an illusion that it was ready to go. another thing i noticed was that cap from both the new carb and the old carb looked differently. the old cap has a brass looking screw in the top. could this screw have went loose and caused the problem?

here is a pic of the 2 caps.
173669173670

thank u for all the help. -Clint

kb0nly

07-23-2013, 10:52 PM

The original cap has an adjuster for taking a bit of slack out of the cable length, but it won't take out a huge amount, say 1/4-1/2" of adjustment tops. But the interesting thing is you removed the cap and all the slack went out, which still leads me back to the slide being incorrect in the carb.

So i have to ask again, are you absolutely positively sure that the slide is going down? Because it sounds like you have it stuck open and when you screw down the cap it compresses the spring and your throttle cable has slack. If you look at the slide one side has a slot all the way from top to bottom, that goes away from the side with the idle set screw. The side that goes towards the idle set screw has just a small notch at the bottom end.

I know its already been mentioned, and even by me, but still still sounds like a slide issue from it not being installed correctly so it can slide down all the way. Here is a picture of the slide and the side that should go towards the idle set screw, when you put it in at the proper orientation the slide should go all the way down to the bottom of the bore before you even get the cap engaged with the threads because the spring is so long.

173672

I happen to be rebuilding one tonight...

Here is two pics showing a slide thats correct with the notch towards the idle set screw.

173673173674

And here is what it looks like when the slide is installed the wrong way.

173675173676

200bigredrebel

07-24-2013, 11:09 AM

update,

kb0nly, i finally got it. =) the slide's notches was in the wrong way. (face palm) once i turned them around it fit smoothly down the carb bore. i have near full throttle control. only 1/3 of it is loose. but i have full engine throttle control. other than that i turned the idle screw a few turns and it runs absolutely fantastic. =D

thank u everyone for the help u have given me. and thank u kb0nly for all effort and trouble u went through to help me out man. thanks a million!

kb0nly

07-24-2013, 11:38 AM

Your welcome! Great to hear its running right. Now just adjust the cable for the slack. If you put the original cap back on you can take out the slack with that adjustment on it. Chances are the cable might be a bit stretched over the years to. Eventually you might wanna replace it.

Have fun!!

200bigredrebel

07-24-2013, 11:27 PM