'84 200ES: It was the exhaust!

[tvpierce]

A little back story: A couple months ago, I had a 10 page, 143 post extravaganza (http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/157166-84-Honda-200ES-Poor-Running...-Ignition) in which a tremendous effort was put forth by several members here to help me get it figured out. Thanks all for your patience and sticking with me on it! I learned a lot about this little Honda engine in a short time!

Through that process, and in the time since, I've been plugging away at it -- doing the following:

- Replaced EVERY component in the ignition system with new parts.
- Swapped out the carb
- Re-magnetized the flywheel
- Made an entirely new ignition wire harness (sounds impressive, but it's really just 5 wires with connectors)
- Checked compression (155 psi)

I bought a compete parts machine and one-by-one swapped out parts -- still no change.

Finally, on a lark, I decide I'll put the Cobra exhaust from the parts machine onto the "problem" trike. (the Cobra is MUCH larger diameter pipe than the stock pipe on the "problem" trike, and the Cobra has a completely gutted muffler)

I get the exhaust system swapped, give the rope a pull, and it barks to life and runs/rides great! :Bounce:Bounce:Bounce Albeit a little lean and a LOT loud... but those things I can fix.

I assume the problem was that the muffler was plugged on the stock system. I tried blowing it out with compressed air and nothing substantial came out. I may try blasting the b'jesus out it with a pressure washer and see what that turns up. I suppose it could be the header pipe. It's a pretty small pipe, but the fit of the header and muffler are OEM, so unless the system from a 110 or 125 would fit a 200ES, I don't see how that could be the issue.

Anyway: Thanks again to everyone for your help. And in my best mad scientist voice, "IT'S ALIVE!!!" :lol:

Now to see if I can turn my "parts" trike into a runner! :naughty:

[fnfal308]

I read every post trying to figure out why both of mine I just bought (110 and 125M) won't idle right and one back fires when giving it gas, and it ended up being your exhaust. I'm bummed. Great for you though! I will put exhaust on the list. Did get some good ideas for checking things.

[tvpierce]

Easy/free way to eliminate exhaust as the problem is to remove the muffler -- keep the header pipe on though -- then start the engine. It will be louder than all get out, but if it improves the way it runs, then you've found your problem. If it doesn't improve the way it runs, put the muffler back on, and move on to the next item.

[kb0nly]

Thats like three 200ES's now on here that have had plugged exhausts, including mine. I went through a lot of the same run quality issues and finally pulled the exhaust and it ran like a champ so i tossed a new DG exhaust on it and never looked back.

[tvpierce]

Hi KB.

Is the DG significantly louder than stock?

[kb0nly]

In my opinion, no... But!!! Realize that my opinion comes from running a stock exhaust that was partially rotted out and falling apart inside, so the DG was actually an improvment in noise control... LOL

Its got a healthy BRAPPPP to it, but i don't call it annoyingly loud. Others may argue... It is closer to a free flowing exhaust, and with that improvement comes a bit more noise. Definitely can't say i am dissapointed in it though, no louder than most things i have ridden.

[tvpierce]

In my opinion, no... But!!! Realize that my opinion comes from running a stock exhaust that was partially rotted out and falling apart inside, so the DG was actually an improvment in noise control... LOL

Its got a healthy BRAPPPP to it, but i don't call it annoyingly loud. Others may argue... It is closer to a free flowing exhaust, and with that improvement comes a bit more noise. Definitely can't say i am dissapointed in it though, no louder than most things i have ridden.

OK... thanks!

A quick question that's had me stumped: (because mine had a few small holes in it too) How is it that these mufflers can be riddled with rust holes, yet still be plugged up enough to choke the engine?

[barnett468]

that's hilarious, not one of us rocket scientists suggested the ex, lol.

glad it now runs well.




A quick question that's had me stumped: (because mine had a few small holes in it too) How is it that these mufflers can be riddled with rust holes, yet still be plugged up enough to choke the engine?Animals get in or [put stuff inside, the perforated pipe rots away which allows the glass packing to fall in the path of the ex.

[tvpierce]

that's hilarious, not one of us rocket scientists suggested the ex, lol.

glad it now runs well.


Yeah, it took us a while to get there... but we got it.

Heck, with the amount of time you and KB had invested in my project, each of you ought to be able to claim me as a dependent on your taxes! :-)

Seriously though, thanks a bunch for your help.

(You too KB!)

[kb0nly]

I thought i suggested the exhaust?? LOL

Glad to hear its getting there now. I haven't cut one open to look at the inside of these exhausts but i suspect there is a perforated piece in there to route the flow around and it just gets a bunch of crap stuck on it. I have shook them before and got lots of rust chunks and stuff out. So its possible for them to get stuffed up at the very entry point where the pipe comes in.

[tvpierce]

Holy crap KB! I was just looking back at the original thread to reference the info below re: source coil voltage... and you DID suggest removing the muffler way back in post #6! I should've listened to you!

BTW: I did an interesting experiment that worked. You may recall was getting low voltage from my source coil -- 28 volts -- and it didn't fluctuate as it should with engine RPM. The source coil tested well within spec. So I took the left cover off, I removed the flywheel and attached some neodymium magnets (salvaged from computer hard drives) to the interior of the flywheel and let them sit there for the afternoon. After removing the magnets and putting it back together, the voltage is about 32v at idle, and climbs to about 50v while revving. So I was able to "recharge" the magnets on the flywheel. Pretty cool!

[kb0nly]

I thought i did but i wasnt sure anymore either!

I have heard about people doing that with the flywheels, never tried it myself but cool! I was thinking of making an electromagnet that would fit inside the flywheel and flip that on and walk away a few hours. Thats a big increase in voltage.

[tvpierce]

When I was researching it, I found that "recharging" the magnets on flywheels is common with the Model-T crowd. They've fabbed some pretty elaborate jigs that hold the flywheel in precisely the right position in relation to the electromagnets.

The nice thing about the neodymium magnets is that they're free if you have access to some old hard drives. I got mine from the IT department at my work -- they're always scrapping old drives. You'll need 5 magnets stacked on one another to make one VERY powerful magnet. Set that on one of the four magnets on the interior of the flywheel and let it sit for a while. Then move it to the next magnet and so on until it's "recharged" all four. I had 15 magnets -- 3 stacks of 5 -- so was able to do 3 flywheel magnets at a time. Ideally, I'd have had 20 of the neodymiums, then I could have just set them in place and leave them.

A word of warning: The magnetic field is so strong on these neodymium magnets that you have to put a rag between the stack of 5 and the flywheel magnet, or you'll never be able to remove them. And be careful handling them loose.

[barnett468]

I thought i suggested the exhaust?? LOLWell, I could be wrong and you very well may have. If you think so I'll just assume you did. Of course if you want to see for yourself all you have to do is simply go back through only 180 posts or so, lol. I just figured if one of us did he might have checked it at the time, uh, oh, I didn't really say that tv, lol.

[barnett468]

Holy crap KB! I was just looking back at the original thread to reference the info below re: source coil voltage... and you DID suggest removing the muffler way back in post #6! I should've listened to you!You are sooooo fired, dude, lol.




BTW: I did an interesting experiment that worked. You may recall was getting low voltage from my source coil -- 28 volts -- and it didn't fluctuate as it should with engine RPM. The source coil tested well within spec. So I took the left cover off, I removed the flywheel and attached some neodymium magnets (salvaged from computer hard drives) to the interior of the flywheel and let them sit there for the afternoon. After removing the magnets and putting it back together, the voltage is about 32v at idle, and climbs to about 50v while revving. So I was able to "recharge" the magnets on the flywheel. Pretty cool!Hey, I definitely suggested weak magnets, didn't I? Everyone laughed at me and blew me off didn't they? I want my set of free steak knives right now dad gum it, lol. :Bounce

[barnett468]

Yeah, it took us a while to get there... but we got it.

Heck, with the amount of time you and KB had invested in my project, each of you ought to be able to claim me as a dependent on your taxes! :-)

Seriously though, thanks a bunch for your help.

(You too KB!)You're more than welcome even though it did take over 2 months for you to do check a couple things KB and I suggested, lol.

[barnett468]

Ok, I think we got it now, if your honda runs bad it's either your cdi, weak spark from weak magnets or your muffler is plugged, and buy a new chinese carb just for good measure, lol.

All the tecate guys have to worry about is an occasional loose flywheel magnet, lol.

[barnett468]

Hi tv cool model t info, never heard that one. also very cool to know recharging it worked. just curious, did you check your spark before and after. i hear many that own a honda say that their spark is weak and pale yellow. even though it might have a regulator i was just curious if recharging your magnets helped increase the spark intensity.

[tvpierce]

I didn't think to check the spark immediately before and after the recharging, but the spark does appear to be consistently stronger now -- a more white/blue vs yellow before.

[Billm42]

Saw the previous forum to this one, my trike sounds the exact same. Going to remove the exhaust tomorrow and see what happens!! Will keep you all posted!!