Alright Guys, I really need your help. 200es, running rough.

[deuce228]

Fill-In: 1984 200es ran excellent but would occasionally not start unless I rapped the CDI box with screwdriver handle. Checked continuity to all the terminals and decided OE CDI box was bad. Followed instructions to change to 5 pin chinese cdi box. Ordered two of them but received only one to start with. Put the one on and it was hard to start and would idle a little rough but ok. When throttle was applied it was missing like crazy and running rough and making a funny noise. Pulled the cover to the advance and lined up the pickup and advance with the F at the marker. Tried again with the same results. Second CDI arrived and swapped it in. Same results. Just installed another advance from Howdy (mine had toasted the stops). Same results basically, however it took me a long time to even get it started. This time it bogged down when idling and stalled.

I will try to explain the best I can (not very mechanically inclined). When I pulled the choke fully and throttled down it makes a funny clicking noise (natural??). One time when I hit the starter it started to spin the motor then made a thunk followed by a clicking noise. Tried the starter again and it engaged and didn't have the same results. Tried pulling the recoil, this was odd. Released compression and pulled the recoil. It started to turn over then released, followed by a spinning gear noise inside the housing by the starter. Tried it again and it started up but is still running rough.

Problem: I have virtually no budget to throw parts at this and without borrowing tools I am limited to wrenches and a digital meter that does not measure resistance.

Suggestions? I am considering borrowing my step fathers digital snake scope and inspecting the valves. I am wondering if somewhere in that clustermug I didn't jump timing. I don't have a timing light, my step dad might.

Summary: Backyard Wannabe Mechanic in WAY over his head with a new to him, previously well running 200es.

[deuce228]

I have lost spark again. Can anyone tell me the procedure to replace the cable from the coil? I am getting a new battery for my tester and checking every thing again.

[Cave Rider]

The problem is usually the CDI box, however if you have a worn-out needle and emulsion tube it can cause your spark plug to foul and lose spark also... this is caused because of a excessive rich condition throughout your mid range Circuit of the carburetor... in other words it could be getting too much fuel and making your plug take a poop. the needle is the pointy part at the end of your throttle cable, and the emulsion tube is the portion that it sets in, it is also what your main jet screws into... the tube can only come from Honda... back to the CDI box... if it has already been running, with the wiring you have done, and was running correctly, your problem probably does not lie there, unless the cheap CDI box failed. there are versions of the service manual available here, however without the proper tools some of the information may be useless... good luck... one more thing, put a brand new, out of the box, unused, never seen an engine, spark plug to do all of your tests, plugs can go bad, no matter how many times you sand and clean them!!!!... the ignition systems can be weak, as well as the plug being fouled !!!! trust me on this part !!!!

[deuce228]

I replaced the plug when I did the Cdi. The new plug is black already. I wonder why the sudden carb issue if that's the prob. It has me stumped. I tried to pull my spark arrestor for shts n giggles but could not get it off. I think I should replace the spark plug wire. The end was loos, I trimmed it and reinstalled.

[kb0nly]

Ok, so you redid the plug wire ends? On the coil you just spin off the collar around the end of the coil that the plug wire goes into, then you can remove the wire from the coil. The plug cap end just threads on, unless someone replaced it with something else in its lifetime.

If the plug is black, not sooty black as you didn't mention if its smoking at all, then its running rich which could be the bane of your problems as Cave Rider mentioned. My 200ES used to foul plugs constantly, but in my case it was due to the stock exhaust being rotted out and restricted inside. After replacing the exhaust it was actually running perfect, nice tan plug color, etc.

Try adjusting the mixture screw on the carb, screw it in all the way lightly seated and come back out about 1 1/2-2 turns, see if you can get it running again, might need to clean the plug good or even replace it. I usually clean then with a brass brush then some carb cleaner and let dry. That will usually bring a fouled plug back unless its got other issues. Also check the gap .24-.28 for the gap. I gap mine to .25 and it seems to be the sweet spot for mine.

If you get it running again after making those adjustments ride it around for a good 10-15 mins, vary engine speed, a few takeoffs, idling, etc.. Get the engine up to full temp and then after that playing around check the plug color again. If your still running rich, and the fact that your spark arrestor is stuck you might have an exhaust issue. If you don't need a spark arrestor for where you ride and you can't get that dang thing out the end of the pipe you could cut it off ahead of the bolt that holds the arrestor in, but i would work on it a bit more. Got a rubber mallet? Smack it all the way around the pipe a few times to loosen it up, soak it with some PB Blaster, drive it around again and get the exhaust warmed up to help with removal. If all that doesnt work do you have access to a torch? Might have to apply some good heat around the end of the pipe to crack it free.

I have seen those arrestors totally covered with a layer of carbon build up, choking the exhaust. I had one that run like crap and felt like it was held back at full throttle, got that arrestor out and revved it up and it was a cloud of crap coming out of the exhaust, left the arrestor out for a while and it ran good. The arrestor had to go into a fire for a while to burn it clean, no kidding!

It's frustrating ones like this i really wish i was close enough to just grab my tool bag and head over... LOL... I got a email from a forum member over on 3WO about a month ago and i ended up driving a couple hours to go help him on a weekend. He was about to rip his hair out. A fresh set of eyes and some beer and it was running like a top.

[deuce228]

Ok. So I can replace the plug wire with another one? Anything special or just most any automotive plug wire?

[kb0nly]

Nothing special about the wire, its just standard plug wire, the last one i replaced i bought some nice 8mm (i think) silicone plug wire, spiced it up using red wire instead of black... LOL

Take your old wire with and compare sizes. Most automotive stores will have bulk cable, have em snip it off a couple inches longer than the one you got, a little extra wont hurt and you might need it in the future!

[deuce228]

Ugh. Lost spark. Got to go back to the drawing board. Going to buy an analog tester and start testing everything again.

[deuce228]

Might have to get some terminals the size the old harness and try the old Cdi again. Wondering if the Chinese have it out for me.

[deuce228]

New plug wire. Getting intermittent white spark. Not enough to fire on. I am guessing I have numerous issues here. Cranking over hardly wet the plug regardless on choke or throttle. Thinking maybe replace coil? Borrowed meter had two resistance settings 10 and 1k. Which do I use testing coil? I can't get readings on both coils with either setting but I can read one coil on each

[tripledog]

Are you SURE the replacement cdi doesn't have electronic spark advance? If it does, it won't play nice with the mechanical advance of the 200es. Sorry if someone else already asked.

[kb0nly]

Well if the plug ain't wet you got fuel problems obviously, no fuel, no fire.. LOL

Time to go through it all again! Now you know why some of us are missing hair...

[deuce228]

Seller never responded. I think Kb said he has the same unit on some of his machines. Bought it from the link in the how to thread