1985 200X is locked up

[Jaymesbf]

179449My brother-in-law has a 1985 ATC 200X that had the motor rebuilt by a professional. There was a rattle that started at high RPM's and when he called the guy who rebuilt it, he said that it was probably the cam chain. I loosened the adjuster bolt on the left side of the motor just a bit (like my manual instructed me to), tightened it back down, took it for a little ride, revved the engine a bit and it just locked up. The motor seems seized because I can't move the kick start lever at all. I was just wondering if anybody had an idea of what it could be or what to look for before we have to tear it apart or pay for it to be done again. Any thoughts, suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[yaegerb]

when you adjusted the chain tension bolt, did you have the bike idling? I have found that the chain tension mechanism won't adjust properly without the motor running. The fact that it seized could be a number of factors that will need to be diagnosed by taking the engine down piece by piece and inspecting. A few items you can quickly check is below:

1. Valve lash, it should be set at .003 inches.
2. Drain the oil...do you see large metal flakes in it? If so, a bearing could have gone out on the crankshaft, case, etc.
3. Check your kickstarter gears, I have seen "professionals" put these in incorrectly many times.
4. Check to see if the cam chain broke. this can be done by removing the cdi cover and pulser plate.

Lastly, I would take the engine back to whoever built it and have them look at it and fix if any of the above don't pan out for you.

[Jaymesbf]

The motor was idling, like the manual said. The first thing I did was check the cam chain, it's fine. The 2nd was draining the oil, it was dark but no metal flakes. The kick starter just seems unlikely because it worked for the year after the rebuild, previous to the adjustment and stopped working 5 minutes after the adjustment. Is it possible to have the chain fall off of the crank?

[yaegerb]

Yes that is possible, but unless it broke and wadded up next to the crankshaft I highly doubt that's your issue because you can't kick the motor over. So, with those items eliminated, have you checked your valves? If not the valves then I would say you could possibly have a seized bearing. That rattle may not have been a cam chain but a crank bearing.

[Jaymesbf]

The rattle only came at higher RPM's and I'm not positive, but it seems like all internal bearings were replaced. The valves have not been checked, though.

[yaegerb]

After you adjusted the cam chain and revved it up, did you still hear the rattle?

[Jaymesbf]

It locked up before it before there was even a chance to hear it.

[Jaymesbf]

It idled for a while after the adjustment and rode well for a few minutes at low RPM's. As soon as we gave it some gas it locked up.

[yaegerb]

Sounds like its time to rip into the motor

[Jaymesbf]

That's what I was afraid of. I appreciate the help and somebody else's opinion. Thank you.

[CodyRosa]

I bet cam chain broke? Or if it fell off it could have bunched up in the bottom on the crank. I've dropped my cam chain down there and i can not budge my crank shaft. Hopefully all is good or at the least minor damage. I'd just pop that top end off and check it out.

[Jaymesbf]

Cody, did you read all of the replies from yaegerb in this post or just what I wrote when I initially posted this? If you haven't read all of this thread, please do and let me know if you still think the chain is a possibility. I agree with yaegerb that it seems unlikely because it makes sense that the only way for it to bunch up is if the chain is broken, and it's definitely not. The motor isn't removed from the trike. Just trying to get an idea of what all the possibilities are before it is pulled. Fairly new to this kind of stuff.

[shortline10]

I hope the "Professional" didn't use and silicone when assembling the motor !

[Jaymesbf]

People can stop using quotes for "professional." He owns a very successful shop and is the only worker there. There's not a doubt in my mind that he did everything correctly because it ran like a champ until I made an adjustment. I can tolerate my knowledge being questioned. But I know for a fact that he knows what he's doing. If it was just some random buddy of mine, I'd say some random buddy. I called this person a professional because he is indeed a professional.

[Jaymesbf]

And I know he didn't use silicone because I asked him about using it and he advised me against it.

[shortline10]

Don't get your panties in a knot :lol: were here to help . I've been a atv mechanic for over 28 years and have seen many seized 200x motors from silicone . If you pull it apart and the cam is seized you know what happened .
Very rare for a cam chain to break , more than likely its the rod , piston or cam shaft that is seized .




And I know he didn't use silicone because I asked him about using it and he advised me against it.

[Jaymesbf]

Help is why I came here and the lack of panties makes it impossible for them to get knotted. The quotes around "professional" seems condescending to me and like you're questioning if I know what a professional is. He's been doing this stuff for just as long as you have and gets paid well for it because he knows what he's doing.

[Jaymesbf]

Just to clarify, the help I appreciate. Talking down to me, I do not.

[yaegerb]

Hey sir, I wasn't going to respond again but I will. Shortline10 IMO is one of the more if not most respected individuals on this board for 200x work. Hell, I thought I was pretty good until I met him and he isn't busting your balls, emotion is conveyed poorly sitting behind a keyboard, so take it with a grain of salt. He's a great guy with tons of knowledge. Neither one of us are trying to disrespect you or your mechanic. I have seen many threads on here of people claiming they have their bike worked on by the town mechanic (who is the best they have ever seen) only to find out later that something was missed or a juvenile mistake was made by obviously a shadetree mechanic. Furthermore, half of the servicemen in any big four shop weren't even born when three-wheelers were in their heyday. Obviously there are still the gems in the shop, but anymore they are far and few between. No need to justify your mechanic any longer, we give you the benefit of the doubt until we see different. Just trying to offer a few kind words since you are a newby. I hope you get the demons out of the bike and get her back on the road soon.

[Jaymesbf]

I know that emotions and intentions are difficult to convey through writing. I really do appreciate the help because my knowledge is lacking in this field but I am an intelligent person and a fast learner. I've been reading posts for the past couple of years and can see that he is one of the more respected people on this website. Like I said before though, the way he phrased his response and used the quotes just came through as slightly condescending to me, whether it was intentional or not. I know the difference between a professional and the local guy who works on random stuff. Again, I do appreciate the help.

[dougspcs]

If he is indeed a professional and a buddy then perhaps start with him..

We can debate for hours the possible causes, but truth is we don't have a clue what's wrong!!

Your buddy should pull the motor, pop the top and give you an answer in about an hour..

If it's on you or something you did, I guess he'll hand you a bill..if it's related to a mistake he's made or a part he supplied and installed I guess it's up to him to decide if he's gonna repair it as a warranty/workmanship repair.

The proof of the issue is in the motor..

No point getting defensive about the 'tone' of someone's post..they are just calling it as they see it and you did ask for their opinion. Sometimes opinions come sounding that way..you may need to thicken up and bit and listen to the message being offered!

[atc300r]

If he is indeed a professional and a buddy then perhaps start with him..

We can debate for hours the possible causes, but truth is we don't have a clue what's wrong!!

Your buddy could pull the motor, pop the top and give you an answer in about an hour..

If it's on you or something you did, I guess he'll hand you a bill..if it's related to a mistake he's made or a part he supplied and installed I guess it's up to him to decide if he's gonna repair it as a warranty/workmanship repair.

The proof of the issue is in the motor..

No point getting defensive about the 'tone' of someone's post..they are just calling it as they see it and you did ask for their opinion. Sometimes opinions come sounding that way..you may need to thicken up and bit and listen to the message being offered!X2 . You should talk to your mechanic. My guess would be seized cam or lower rod bearing.Have you tried turning the motor over backwards.Either put it in gear and roll it backwards or grab the flywheel and try turn it backwards.If it somehow jumped timing the piston could be hitting the valve.

[shortline10]

No disrespect intended and the panty remark I apologize for that . I can't tell how many 200x motors that go threw my shop with lots of mistakes from previous mechanics . Let us know what you find out :beer:

[CodyRosa]

Nope Jaymes, I didn't read the previous post as I hurried up and wrote that then went for a wheeler ride =) If its not broke then I suppose it would be impossible to bunch up. I guess yank that top end and find out what happened...

[oldskool83]

I'm willing to bed somthing got into the motor when it was rebuild and locked a bearing up.

you do not need much gasket material on the valve cover at all, i normaly just put a light coating on with a paint brush or finger.

[rg97]

No updates on this?

[Jaymesbf]

Not yet. It's my brother-in-law's trike and he has yet to pull the motor. He's going to pull it eventually, bring it to me and I'll pop the top to see if it's a fix that won't require splitting the cases. Just for gits and shiggles, I looked up the shop online that my brother in law took his trike to when it was rebuilt and found 1 review from 2 1/2 years ago. Here it is....

The greatest hidden secret in the Chippewa Valley. This small motorcycle and ATV shop has the best mechanic you will ever find. Reasonable and Honest. Craig rides and races his own bikes (including a few original Indians) so does his young sons. Craig knows what he is doing and I will take my bikes to him as long as I can ride them there. You should take all your motorcycles and atvs to him.

[dougspcs]

Not yet. It's my brother-in-law's trike and he has yet to pull the motor. He's going to pull it eventually, bring it to me and I'll pop the top to see if it's a fix that won't require splitting the cases. Just for gits and shiggles, I looked up the shop online that my brother in law took his trike to when it was rebuilt and found 1 review from 2 1/2 years ago. Here it is....

The greatest hidden secret in the Chippewa Valley. This small motorcycle and ATV shop has the best mechanic you will ever find. Reasonable and Honest. Craig rides and races his own bikes (including a few original Indians) so does his young sons. Craig knows what he is doing and I will take my bikes to him as long as I can ride them there. You should take all your motorcycles and atvs to him.

His best buddy could have gone online and written that review..or even him. Wouldn't be the 1st time someone used the internet to self-promote!

But then its not important what we think of him, we're just giving opinion about where your problems may have come from...if you think he's great it's all that matters.

If so I'm sure he will be willing to step up to the trough if the problem turns out to be his!!

We'll be eager to hear when it comes apart and the solution is found..hope it doesn't sting!!

[Jaymesbf]

Certified Honda mechanic for +25 years. That qualifies somebody as a professional, to me. I feel that you don't get to where he is, without any promotion or advertisement, without being extremely good at what you do. His only business is word of mouth, and business for him is good. I'd love for my brother in law to take it back to him, but he's expensive and I don't doubt that it was something that I did. I promise, as soon as I've got it apart, my findings will be posted on here.

[dougspcs]

Certified Honda mechanic for +25 years. That qualifies somebody as a professional, to me. I feel that you don't get to where he is, without any promotion or advertisement, without being extremely good at what you do. His only business is word of mouth, and business for him is good. I'd love for my brother in law to take it back to him, but he's expensive and I don't doubt that it was something that I did. I promise, as soon as I've got it apart, my findings will be posted on here.

Either way..good luck!

[Jaymesbf]

Went over to my brother in law's house, him and one of his buddies were taking the top off when I arrived and had discovered that a chunk of the sleeve had broken off.

[shortline10]

Rotate your crank to see how true it is paying close attention when you spin it in the cases . An unbalanced crank will cause the cylinder skirt to break . What is your bore at ? 66.5 or 67mm over bores tend to be fragile and skirt breakers .

[Jaymesbf]

I don't remember the size, but it's the largest bore available before needing a new sleeve.

[shortline10]

The last bore is a 67 mm which only leaves aprox 1mm on the lower sleeve which IMO isn't enough .


I don't remember the size, but it's the largest bore available before needing a new sleeve.

[Jaymesbf]

So you're saying that anybody who is boring theirs out to a 67 should just resleeve instead?

[shortline10]

Yes,
I would not recommend a 67mm bore , Much cheaper to buy a used cylinder at stock 65mm and do a 1st over bore .


So you're saying that anybody who is boring theirs out to a 67 should just resleeve instead?