View Full Version : Hi All, Newbie with a 225 DX re-starting question
I have searched for info on this but cant seem to find anything that covers this particular problem... Unless I missed it.
Anyways, I have a Yamaha 225 DX possibly an 85 or so, not sure.
Here's the issue, cold, it fires up maybe 1 or two pulls... idles great, I can gas it and it revs up, I get on it to ride and it goes a couple feet and dies. After that, it wont start again for hours... its like it just looses its will to live! lol
Its got a new carb which seems fine to me, I'm thinking its most likely more of an electrical issue.
Does anyone know if the CDI box could possibly heat up and fail?
Would riding as opposed to letting it sit at an idle, cause the CDI to push a bigger load there fore shorting it out until its cooled off again?
Could it be something else in the electrical system be overloading when its ridden? And by ridden I mean 2 or three feet...
I though maybe it was a short in a wire because since I have to sit on it to ride it, maybe a wire is moving and shorting out, but the whole, starting up the next morning thing is throwing me.. lol
Last night after it stalled, I pulled the plug, it had a spark but it seemed small and weak and I then put some ether in the carb and it wouldn't fire up, not even attempt to, I pulled the plug again and put ether directly into the cylinder and again, not even a pop... I bet when I get home it will fire right up though.
Anyone ever experience anything like this?
Also, Does anyone know of any aftermarket CDi boxes I can look into or if any other CDI box will work? there's slim Pickens on EBay and they go from $45.00 to $300.00 and I don't wanna buy another bad one or spend as much for a new one as I did for the whole trike... lol thanks!
Anyone have any ideas yet?
Ghostv2
11-27-2013, 10:16 PM
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/162887-starting-problem
Sounds very similar to this guys problem, try reading through all the posts and check some of the stuff they mentioned. If you are having as much trouble finding the problem as he is, it just comes down to trying and testing random stuff.
barnett468
11-28-2013, 05:46 AM
look at the spark before starting
start bike as usual.
once bike dies look at the plug and see if it looks wet, if it is, clean it off then look at the spark again, if it is noticeably weaker it is an electrical problem, this would not be good obviously.
if the spark looks the same and the plug is wet then your carb might be too rich causing it to flood out.
check float level, if it is too high it can cause flooding.
if float level is correct then try smaller main jets.
yes any a cdi or coil can work fine when cold but fail once it is warmed up. might take 2 minutes might take 30.
there are some $5.00 chinese cdi units on ebay that many here have used on their hondas when the origs go bad. try a search using the sites search engine. look up cdi or kbonly.
hopefully KBONLY will see this and have ideas.
find a free online service manual below.
http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/
thanks Ghost.... I was looking at those cheapie CDi units on ebay last night, the thing with them is, they have a 4 wire plug and a 2 wire plug on them, my cdi has 2 four wire plugs.... so im not sure theyd work. Of course, I have very little clue as to what the wires do so i dont know if they are all needed or what...lol As for my problem, the spark after the trike stalls, is there but pretty weak. the plugs not wet so im gonna try another cdi i got used off ebay.. hopefully it works....lol if i can get one of those china cdis to work, ld buy a few to keep as spares...lol one of the other problems i will be looking into next is the electric start... pulling this thing is a chore!
motox40
11-28-2013, 10:05 PM
If the plug isn't wet after pulling on it when it stalls out you have a carb issue. The petcock might be plugged and after sitting for awhile enough gas drains down in the carb enough to start it. 99.9% of the time when a cdi box goes its done.
Baker1126
11-28-2013, 11:21 PM
Sounds weird but try leaving the gas cap loose. I have to do this on my atc 200es and ytm 225dx. I think some sort of venting issue is creating a vaccum. Let me know if it helps.
joenovosel
11-29-2013, 08:37 PM
Mine did the same thing. Ended up being that I was missing an o ring in the carb and the petcock needed rebuilt. Mine would fire right up then I would ride it it would die and not start for a while. Then it would fire right up. I never did take the plug out to check it.
awesome guys...i will check this out. it does have a brand new carb on it but hey, i guess even brand new is not a 100% guarantee that its gonna work. lol
muthey
11-30-2013, 12:33 AM
I would do a thorough check on the fuel petcock, and there are chinese cdi's that have 2 four wire plugs, check this site out http://www.kazumapartsonline.com/chinese-electrical-parts-cdi-boxes-c-398_270.html Here is a manual for it can't remember if it goes throught the exact wires on the cdi and where they go but it should help. http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/ also let it be known that the cdi on the 225 controls the spark timing unlike 80- 83 honda motors with a pulse generator I wish I could be of more help for you
Thanks for the links. Ill have to see if I can find the CDI I need there. I downloaded the manual but its the one I already have... thanks anyhow. Atleast now Ill have a PDF copy i can look at while at work, if im looking for parts or something...lol
At any rate, i pulled the tank and when i took off the gas line i turned the PC on and it poured out gas... so I guess it workes. lol
I then went and looked at the extra frame my trike came with and there was a complete electrical system on it, minus the keyed ignition switch and run, headlight, start button switch. so i grabbed the cdi off it and hopefully it still works.
Anyone have a trick to bench testing a starter to know if its working or not? theres only one wire on it, how would i hook it up to see if the starter still spins?
muthey
12-01-2013, 12:23 PM
you sit the mounting base of the starter to the negative terminal on a battery and the touch the wire to the positive terminal, make sure you are useing the aluminum base of the starter as it is better than the metal bracket that holds it into the motor
Cool thanks! I was using a wire from the neg battery terminal to the body of the starter, and another
One from the positive terminal to the terminal on the starter and it sparked. I didnt wanna short the battery out so i just stopped. Lol
Sounds weird but try leaving the gas cap loose. I have to do this on my atc 200es and ytm 225dx. I think some sort of venting issue is creating a vaccum. Let me know if it helps.
its not Weird at all, I have to do this with one of my Echo Weed whackers...lol I get gas all dripping down my leg with it... lol
anyone know how to figure out the year of this 225? also, anyone have a part number for the lightbulb for the tail light? lol...
Ok so I put the tank on the trike last nite, put gas in it, hooked up the new key switch and all that, pulled the starter rope twice and it fired up.. let it run maybe 4 or 5 mins, shut it down, put a new gas line and filter on it just because I had bought them and didn't want to have them laying around getting lost.. fired her up again, one pull, let her run another 10 mins or so.. in this time I noticed that I don't know the choke position on my carb. its not the stock, its a $50.00 ebay carb. it has a lever and the trike starts and idles and runs with the lever up and dies with it pushed down. am I starting and running with the choke on or off? when the lever is up, the plunger goes down, when the lever is pressed down, the plunger goes up. So.. after all this. when I shut it off after it warmed up, It wouldn't start again.... lol crazy thing!
muthey
12-05-2013, 10:07 PM
cant help you with the choke question as all I have are original mikuni's on mine, but the tail light bulb is a standart 1156 auto bulb, you can pick up for a couple bucks at any part store, heck I can get them at most gas stations up here. to check the carb I would pull it or remove the airfilter tube to it and look in the back of the carb when the flap is blockng the hole you are choke when it is open you are in normal running position. Do you have the original carb to it?
Thanks Muthey...
No, I did have the original carb but I tossed it because the float bowl was rotted away and had a hole in it... Don't know what kind of gas the owner used but it must have been good! lol
I think I will do as you suggest and see if I can tell by looking in the back. I have a sneaking suspicion its running with the choke on and my need to be looked into to see why. And im kicking myself now for dumping the original carb, I could maybe have used this carbs float bowl on it or maybe got one from Mikuni for it...Grrrr...
Anyone know of any other carbs that will work on this engine with little to no mods? a direct replacement maybe that WASNT built by 10 year olds in some 3rd world hell hole?
muthey
12-06-2013, 10:46 AM
if it's one of the mikuni knock offs I was looking at on e-bay and has the pluger style choke, lever up choke is engaged lever down choke is off
I have to look into it further.. im not sure if its a Mikuni knock off or a no name. But whatever it is, if its running on full idle its got an issue... lol its brand new so I don't know what that issue may be but ripping it down and cleaning it and giving it a bath I the sonic washer wont hurt it I s'ppose!
muthey
12-06-2013, 10:03 PM
I'm betting it has a jetting issue, ytms are a very picky motor ecspecially with an 11-1 compression stock
well without pulling the carb, i cannot tell if the choke is on or off, im gonna say its on though because with the stock carb, you pull up on it to choke it correct? and with this, it only runs with the choke in the up position. push it down and it dies right out, cover the back of the carb with your hand and it dies... and theres only one adjustment screw on the carb, turn it one way and the idle goes up and up and up, turn it the other way (out) and the idle drops but it only drops so far and it feels like the screw will come out...lol i dont see any other screws that look like adjustment screws... but i must say, it fired up, second pull tonight...lol
Ran her again today, tried to ride it but it was bogging spitting and coughing out the carb ( i had the air filter off) so after it stalled out it wouldn't start again but this time i tried starting her with my hand covering the back of the carb, it did no good but, when i took my hand off the cRb it was covered with gas! So, maybe its flooding out? Lol
Well, shes running...lol was finally able to ride it today, man..... how do you keep the front wheel on the ground? lol i was suprised at the power of this thing, although i can hardly get to third gear in my yard but damn!!! So what happened you ask? howd i fix it? Muthey said he'd bet it was a jetting issue so i thought, let me see, i too off the carb, its a Mikuni from Japan and not a cheapie knock off like i thought... what i did notice though was it seemed small... so i cleaned it all out and stuck it back on and it was still doing the same thing. this morning i went back out and wasnt gonna work on the trike but instead clean the garage, thats when i found the little tupperware bowl with all the stuff i saved from the old carb, including the original jets. well, i took the carb off again and popped the old jets in it stuck it back on and BOOM she fired right up... i jumped on it and blasted around for a bit but the front end was wonky so i had to spend the rest of the day on that... its still not right, do all trikes pull one way or the other? this one pulls hard to the right. the forks and orig. handlebars wer bent like it hit a wall or something once... do the triple trees bend?
nhwheeler
12-08-2013, 10:27 PM
Could it be a stuck brake or bad wheel bearing? My first thing would be to tram out the front ( front wheel straight measure front wheel nut to rear wheel nut one side at a time / center of the nuts / and see if the lengths are the same) I work on cars and this is a a quick front end alignment trick if they are of even a 1\4 inch this will throw things off could be a fork bent but not bad enough to see by eye
muthey
12-08-2013, 11:43 PM
check your forks for bends, also elevate the rear end and pop her in first gear at an idle and look to see if it has a bent axle, also look at the rear tires as Chinese rubber is mainly poor quality and can be uneven and cause pulling issues. Are the tree bearings good? Also the lower tree is steel and the upper tree is aluminum, is it possible for them to bend, yes but more likely they will break first as they are both casted and cast usually cracks before bending. Also when you have the rear end off the ground check for slop in the carrier bearings. when you have it off the ground take precautions and have it stable you really don't want it to slide off or lean to one side and take off on you while in first gear at an idle. LOL I speak from experience, Yamahas vibrate pretty good when running.
Well I know one is very very slightly bent.. it was bent and I straightened it as best as I could... until it was almost un noticeable by looking straight down it... I even rolled it on a level bench and it had a very tiny wobble, but not much at all. I was surprised I got it as straight as I did!
The biggest thing is when I look straight down at the wheel from standing on the foot pegs, it almost looks as if the handle bar is a little skewed from the top of the triple tree... when I got the trike, the old handle bar was bent almost down to café racer handle bar angle...lol you can see it in my Avatar..lol) and the fork on that side was way bent. the for on the other side is the one I straightened out cause it only had a small bend. And the trike came with an extra fork that I used to replace the really bent one. im wondering if the previous owner
bashed it so hard to bend both forks and the handlebars, could anything else be out of whack too?
http://www.brokenfencephotography.com/photos/i-z3CxMhv/0/L/i-z3CxMhv-L.jpg
Im gonna do that wheel nut to wheel nut measurement tonight to see if its the same.
MtDew
12-10-2013, 10:35 AM
Your front tire is in the opposite tread direction as your rear tires. Probably not your issue but I would get the tires all in the same tread direction.
yeah he had the tires backwards when I got it... they are correct now... lol something's misaligned though, with the handle bar straight, the wheel points a bit to the right (if your sitting on the trike) Maybe Ill look for some forks for it. Anyone know ofany other bikes forks that would slip right on without changing the tree?
well I got the starter working too... I got my new switch in and put it on yesterday.. I had to take it all apart and sand all the connections though as t was pretty corroded up with dirt and rust and stuff, after that though it works great, its so nice not to have to pull it anymore... lol. Now to work out the front end pulling issues.
check your forks for bends, also elevate the rear end and pop her in first gear at an idle and look to see if it has a bent axle, also look at the rear tires as Chinese rubber is mainly poor quality and can be uneven and cause pulling issues. Are the tree bearings good? Also the lower tree is steel and the upper tree is aluminum, is it possible for them to bend, yes but more likely they will break first as they are both casted and cast usually cracks before bending. Also when you have the rear end off the ground check for slop in the carrier bearings. when you have it off the ground take precautions and have it stable you really don't want it to slide off or lean to one side and take off on you while in first gear at an idle. LOL I speak from experience, Yamahas vibrate pretty good when running.
I know the trees bearings could use a little help as I am suspecting the front wheel bearings can too, in fact, probably all of them are in need of a change. lol I also wanna change the rear end fluid too, and I know the oil was just changed but I bet the filter is old. maybe ill just go through the whole thing this winter part by part...
first ride in the snow tonight, it was awesome! we had about 5 inches and i came home to a nice snowy driveway and front lawn... it sooo much fun to just slide around and do donuts!! lol....
bigdaddyvw185
12-10-2013, 09:23 PM
i was wondering if you were able to get out in the snow!, ya take any pictures? i went up in the field behind my house and had a little bit of fun myself 182201182202
bigdaddyvw185
12-10-2013, 09:25 PM
we only got like 3 may be 4 inches here, thats a bummer you got more than i did! haha
nhwheeler
12-10-2013, 09:30 PM
Nice trike. I am in kind of the same situation spent weekend going through basket's of parts to make one good one but I did have time to take out my runner on a mud&snow run what a blast haven't rode a trike in 15 years now I remember why I loved them so much trust me all your hard work is going to pay off way more fun than 4 wheels now is time to come up with list of needs wants and fixes.
i was wondering if you were able to get out in the snow!, ya take any pictures? i went up in the field behind my house and had a little bit of fun myself 182201182202
Naaa no pics, it was too dark out. I dont eave milford till about 5:15pm and by the time i make it up rte 34 with the traffic its way to dark out! Lol it was a blast though, the ten mins i did ride her . I was a bit surprised st what good traction it got!
Nice trike. I am in kind of the same situation spent weekend going through basket's of parts to make one good one but I did have time to take out my runner on a mud&snow run what a blast haven't rode a trike in 15 years now I remember why I loved them so much trust me all your hard work is going to pay off way more fun than 4 wheels now is time to come up with list of needs wants and fixes.
Thanks. Yeah they say half the fun is working on then.... Nahhhh the riding is the fun part! Lol yeah ill be working on it all through the winter it seems .... Lol lots of little stuff to fix / replace! Good luck eith yours
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