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fabiodriven
12-16-2013, 12:23 AM
I want to say right off the bat, if you find this boring or it's not your cup of tea don't read it. I'm not looking for praise or thanks, we've been through that. I signed on the line, it was my choice. It's my burden to bear the consequences. I've had some stuff bottled up in my mind lately. I feel like I have to let it out. If I can educate some people along the way, all the better. I'm not looking to brag. There are a lot of people out there that did a lot more than I did during the war. This is more about what happens to some people after.

I've recently found myself becoming what I pictured as a rowdy veteran when I was a kid. One of my favorite movies growing up was "First Blood". Now, I'm not comparing myself to John Rambo. It's just that since I got home (January 2004) I have had some problems. I've dealt with a plethora of physical and mental problems all stemming from my deployment, that's no secret. What I recently asked myself was if there was one point, one event, one cause to all of this. I couldn't think of one single event that did, but I thought of many that would have contributed.

I talked with a squad mate for a couple of hours on the phone today, he's got the same problems as I do. I didn't even have a chance to bring it up when he asked me "Hey, do you ever wonder if there's one specific event that has caused us to be this way?" I told him I had just been asking myself the same question. We were both very curious because as messed up as we are, you would think we were on the PT boat steaming up the river in "Apocalypse Now", when in fact we were in more of a support role. We were involved in light combat on several occasions but not full blown battles. Not enough in either of our minds to cause us to be the way we are today. So we started thinking of things that may have caused us to become what we now are.

First and foremost, I deployed out of Fort Drum, NY. During our preparations to deploy, Uncle Sam stuck us with 24 different needles, and that's not including the ones for administering Small Pox vaccination or anything like that. Inside those needles was a concoction of chemicals, some of them allegedly toxic, some of them allegedly completely untested (Anthrax vaccine). Not only that, but allegedly none of these chemicals had ever been investigated as far as how they would all "jive" when administered all in the same body within a short time of each other. We were basically human petri dishes. There is no possible way having these things injected into your body can have any sort of beneficial results aside from if they happen to save your life at some point. If they never did that, then you've just been injected with some nasty shite for no reason. We also had insect repellants that were designed to be sprayed on the exterior of uniforms, sleeping bags, or tents, and then dried. It was not designed to come in contact with the soldier. We lathered ourselves with this stuff. It was that or get eaten alive by biting insects. While we're on that subject, I developed more than one anomaly on my skin while I was over there that I had always attributed to some sort of insect bite, but I never knew for certain. They would fill up and turn purple and then have to be drained. I probably had that happen at least half a dozen times while I was deployed and never had I seen anything like that on my body prior to my deployment. They showed up more than once after I got home though, probably a handful of times within a 4 or 5 year period. My thoughts were that maybe it wasn't an insect after all. It was something that happened to me during the deployment for the first time in my life, then for a while after, then never again. What insect lives both in Iraq and here, but didn't live here before I got deployed and left the area 4 years after I got home? Obviously there is no such thing. So what would cause that? Take your pick. Depleted Uranium, smoke from the burning feces, chemicals applied both topically and internally... It's a crap shoot.

The hazards in that country are only now being realized. As I mentioned already, there is depleted Uranium all over that country from our tank rounds. They've been there since the first gulf war. My camps were all towards southern Iraq, more than likely an area coalition forces would have been encountering Iraqi soldiers. Even if they didn't get that far north in 90-91, we certainly had been there in 2003. Our first three camps were built by us with our own hands. Our tents did not have floors and we lived on the very sand that may have been harming us while we were none the wiser. Our first few showers didn't have floors either. We stood in the sand. The MSR (Main Supply Route) we lived on was MSR Tampa. It was peppered with A-10 rounds and burnt out vehicle carcasses so there is no question as to what had transpired there just before we had arrived. I haven't looked into it too deeply yet, but I would venture to guess there's even more than just depleted Uranium in the sand there. Which brings me to my next hazard. The sand.

The sand over there isn't what you think. It's not what you see at the beach or in the sand pit. It's like talcum powder. It whips up with the slightest agitation or breeze. It's extremely fine material. So fine, in fact, that our respiratory system cannot filter out all of the particles we're breathing in. In those particles is god knows what and in turn, inside of me now is god knows what. Our nostrils and the insides of our noses had some odd sort of scabbing. You could actually see it on some people. We all dealt with that the entire time we were there, and some of us dealt with it for years after getting home. Another thing about the sand there, it is a very high percentage salt. Everything was covered in salt. If you sweated (and you did) you would end up with sweat stains soaking through your clothes which would then dry with a salt line clearly outlining the area that had been wet. It would also harden like starch. To this day I get irked dealing with any sort of powder. When you've lived in that disgusting powder for as long as I have with it in your eyes, nose, and every other orifice, with the wind whipping it up into everything, your dinner, your breakfast, getting out of the shower and walking back to your tent in a sand storm... You get the picture. It gets old. I have a tough time dealing with cement mix and mortars and stuff. My buddy had the same problem. He used to work waterproofing basements. He would cut and break foundations, add his pipes and pumps, and cement it all back into place. Between his physical ailments (I'll touch on that later) and not being able to deal with concrete all day every day, he had to resign from his position where he made a very good living. He is now 100% disabled through the VA.

I was a truck driver in the army. We hauled fuel in 5k fuel tankers. Our trucks were M818's that were from the 60's and 70's. There is no insulation between you and the outside, just sheet metal. They are very loud and the exhaust stack comes out forward of the passenger compartment which isn't legal on road vehicles outside of the military. We hauled JP 8 and we handled it a lot, both loading and off loading. It's basically diesel fuel. We ended up with it on our skin from time to time and it fricken stinks. Between having that exhaust stack in front of me all day every day and swimming in JP 8, I was starting to develop some issues. The amount of hours we drove on a daily basis varied, but some days we would drive for 12 or even 14 hours. For the last couple months of my tour I would arrive at our destination with a migraine that was just literally pounding to the point my eyes were squinted and I would have to dash to get some chow and then immediately go to sleep only to start over the next day. It was incredibly trying, but I couldn't just stop. I didn't have a choice, I had a job to do. So I went for months going to bed almost every night with a migraine headache. I became very sensitive to the smell of JP 8, whether it was already burnt or still unburnt. To this day if I go into a room with an oil furnace running, I can smell this odd smell, I can taste it, it's not quite burnt diesel and I can't quite smell it, it's odd... It's almost as if I can sense it. I'm sorry, but there are some things so odd with me I lack the ability to explain them. But the smell, sense, whatever it is I get, I can't stand it. I have to get to fresh air. I've had other people right next to me on many occasions and I ask them if they can smell it. I've not yet had anyone tell me yes. Meanwhile it's overtaking me to the point I can't breathe.

As I touched on earlier, we burned human feces on a daily basis. The job was rotated so we didn't all burn it every day, but it would blow around everywhere. You'd go around to the shitters, collect the crap by pulling the bucket out of the back of the John, haul them all to the burn pit, dump them in, cover it with diesel, and light it up. Then you had to stand there for hours on end stirring the crap because the fuel floated on top and the crap just boiled underneath. Burning a fire from the top down is extremely inefficient. It took a really, really long time to do. We also burned all of our trash as well. Neither of these are healthy for you in any manner, shape, or form. Throw into that the smoke from burning bodies, buildings, and god knows what else.


Those are some of the speculated causes to the problems myself and so many others suffer today. The verdict is out as to whether or not I'm correct about any of this. What I will list out now are the problems they may have caused. Again, I'm not looking for sympathy or understanding. I'll tell you right now, there are likely very few, if any reading this that can understand it. I am the one who has the problems and I don't understand them, so it's unlikely others do. A lot of the things that go on in my head are tough to describe, so I'm going to do the best I can. My aforementioned squad mate, the one I was on the phone with for a very long time today. As much as I hate to admit it, I had very serious doubts about my dear friend not long after we got home. Yes, I had my problems almost immediately after getting off the plane and returning home, but his problems were really bad. His deployment also got cut short, he wasn't there nearly as long as myself or most of the other people, which made me question his issues even more. He is the one I mentioned having been in basement waterproofing. Not long after we got home he was having issues with working, getting along with his wife, and just getting through the day in general, "supposedly" I thought at the time. He was, and still is, getting a LOT of assistance from the VA and various veterans associations. So much, in fact, that I thought it looked a little fishy. A lot of the people I deployed with still hold those feelings today. I do not. Although I have had my share of issues over the years, never until this past spring (Late May, early June) did I realize what I was in for. One would imagine that over time maybe these things would get better. After all, time heals all wounds, right? In this case no, it does not. In this case I seem to be getting worse and worse, which is part of why I've decided to write this today. I have many fears, many I shouldn't have and many I know inside are unfounded, yet I cannot shake them. One fear I currently have is that at some point I may not have a mind right enough to accurately share this information, so here I document it with you fine people. But I digress. Back to my buddy.

So I thought my buddy may have been taking some liberties with the support provided us. I just didn't think there was any way he could be as fawked up as he is. Now here I am, a fellow soldier that saw everything he did in his deployment, that knows more than anyone what he had been through, and here I am doubting him. Now if I'm doubting him, you can only imagine what people think of him that have never been there. He gets it all the time from people because he's only 32 or something and he can't work and hasn't been able to for a couple of years. People laugh at him and people put him down from time to time. My problems are now on their way (if they're not already there) to being every bit as bad as his, and you know what? Now I can see what he was going through. I am living it right now. I am now in contact with the very same charities and agencies that he was and having almost the exact same problems he was. This is where it gets tricky to explain so I'll do my best. My outlook on life is not what it should be. I get overwhelmed before I even get out of bed. The most simple task I can obsess over and worry about until it gets done. Upsize the problem, upsize the worry. I get worried all the time about something and then multiple things until I overwhelm myself and then nothing gets done. I give up before I even get started. I can no longer hold a regular job. I worked at my last real job for almost 5 years. It was very easy and it paid really well. My work salary combined with my monthly disability check made for no financial issues. I paid my bills and then some. Then in the spring I lost my mind. I left my job. I had to go to the hospital as I was no longer in control of my own thoughts and actions. My boss really didn't want me to go and he bent over backwards trying to get me to stay. I told him I was going to step down, I didn't want the job anymore. This wasn't the first time my personal issues had affected my work, and it was by far the worst incident. I didn't want to burden him anymore. Not only that, I didn't want to burden anyone anymore. The real reason I was all set with accepting my job back was because I didn't think I'd be alive long enough to go back to work. I spent 4 or 5 days in the loony bin at the VA. I got out and a day and a half later I tried to kill myself. The cops and ambulance showed up at my house and hauled me off to the local hospital, as they do not deliver patients to the VA. I spent a night in the Brockton Hospital and the next morning they transported me back to the Brockton VA, at which point I escaped their clutches and made my way back home. I was on the run for a day and a half before I gave myself up. These are not the actions of a healthy mind. I then spent another week in the loony bin.

This year has been the worst year of my life. Things have gone downhill really, really fast for me. The sunshine bothered me. I would squint and look down at the ground. Sunny days in general bothered me. That's not normal. I feel like the odd man out wherever I go. Many of you saw this first hand at Trikefest this past year. I am reckless. I ride my Buell much faster than I had in years past, and not always sober. One of the first things I did when I got to Trikefest this year was attack the Backbone on my 225DR. It was clear after my first attempt (which drew blood) that it wasn't such a good idea right at that moment. Well I tried it again, and fell again. Then I tried it a third time and fell again. If The Stud wasn't there to stop me I may still be trying to get up that fawker right now. Then I wiped out on the 500. No regard for my own well being whatsoever. That's just kind of how I operate right now. That's not normal. I work crappy jobs that don't pay well and I end up flipping out and walking away. Prior to this year, every move I had made job wise was up. Better pay, better job, until this year. Now I have nothing. I have $146 in the bank, it's the 15th, I own a home, and I owe a lot of different people a lot of money. In years past, I moved up. Now I'm moving down. That's not normal. A very big problem I have is I am dependent on having a significant other in my life or else I'm not happy. That's not normal. That is one of the very few questions I had that I believe I have found an answer for though. I was talking to a fellow vet that served over seas and he very simply asked me if I always feel alone no matter who I'm with or what I'm doing. I told him yes, that's exactly how I feel, save for the times when I'm in a relationship with someone. That's the only time I feel "normal" and seem to operate like a "normal" human being. Viola! That explained one thing to me. The problem is, when I'm single I'm messed up enough that no one of the opposite sex wants to get near me, and I can't say I blame them, but I can't be "normal" without a member of the opposite sex in my life. It's a catch 22, and those I'm getting very used to. I smoke like a chimney, on the weekends I drink like a fish. It's the only time I smile, and half the time I can't remember what happened.

A very recent development I've had is my hips and lower back feeling like they're getting ready to throw in the towel. Physically I've always been very healthy. Now I feel like I'm 60. I did some laps around the yard on the DR in the snow today, only for about 20 minutes, and I felt like my whole lower body was going to give out. I'm curious to see what happens the next time I go to New Hampshire. The odd thing is, my squad mate's back has been deteriorating at a very rapid pace over the last couple years with no real explanation as to why. He now walks with a cane.

Again, this is hard for me to put into words. I feel like I'm not doing anything wrong or abnormal, but the results of my actions and the reactions of those around me continue to say otherwise. It's as if my mind isn't processing the information in front of it correctly. I feel as though I'm not doing anything wrong, yet I continually end up dealing with the repercussions of my actions and sometimes I can see after the fact how I was wrong. No matter how many times this happens, I am completely blind to it while it's happening. Only after do I figure it out. It makes me question everything. Things I've done in the past and what not. I've lost multiple relationships, jobs, opportunities, friendships, you name it, due to my ailments.

Everyone's suffering varies in one form or another, although there are also a lot of similarities. I direct my problems inward, to myself. I blame myself for a lot of things, whether or not they're my fault. I'm my own worst enemy, and I'm very hard on myself. Some of us project our problems outward. I was at a fellow veteran's house a couple of years ago, a guy I served side by side with. His wife makes a very good living. They've got a nice house and all that happy horse shite. We had gone out and had a few drinks and then went back to their house. I was spending the night. Something happened, I don't know what, but before I knew it he had his wife by the throat up against the wall right in front of me. I immediately wrapped my arm around his throat and choked him to the ground, he's a big boy. He submitted and I let him up. He immediately went for the kitchen, specifically where the kitchen knives were kept. His eyes were blank, he was looking right through me. He looked me in the eyes with a smile on his face and told me he was going to kill me and then kill his wife. Luckily they were having their kitchen re modeled and the knives were put away. I still had to fight him again though. The next day we parted ways and it wasn't a huge deal. That's not normal. From what I've been told, 22-24 vets kill themselves a day. I know why and I know how. The amount of times a week that the thought of suicide crosses my mind is absurd. We're just not afraid of death, and I'm not saying that proudly. There is something seriously wrong with us. I've got more stories just from the small amount of guys I'm still really close with, I can only imagine what the rest of my company has gone through, or the battalion, or the army in general.

The VA has absolutely no issues whatsoever pumping us full of chemicals that do nothing but mask problems and turn us chemically dependent. They put me on Klonopins in the spring which are highly addictive, but they took the edge off my anxiety at least briefly. Then I was addicted though. I got off of those when they switched me to an anti depressant which I initially really liked, but that only lasted 4 days. At first I liked not feeling depressed anymore, but I found out really fast that not only was I not feeling depressed anymore, I wasn't feeling anything. I couldn't feel bad which was good, but I couldn't feel good which was bad. So I stopped all medication by late in the summer. I don't like that stuff, it's no fricken good at all. The keys to me feeling good and improving myself are two very simple things. Working out and Marijuana. Here again is yet another way in which I'm cursed. Marijuana is not currently legal where I live, but if I don't smoke pot I won't work out. If I don't work out I won't feel any better and I'll not be improving my situation at all. The only substance at all that keeps my mind in check is a natural herb with next to no side effects, which I'm not supposed to take, but they'll gladly pump me full of addictive chemicals that cause more problems than they solve. As if I don't have enough issues.

My whole point in writing this is to attempt to share something from the other place I've been in, and am currently still at. Whether or not I will ever return is not yet known. What set this in motion today was when I realized how much I didn't understand about my fellow soldier that was going down the very same road I am now. He just went down it ahead of me. Now that it's happening to me, I can assure anyone who may have any questions that these problems are in fact very, very real. I have gone from a more than productive member of society who was always doing or building something to someone who cannot maintain a relationship, a job, and doesn't know how he's going to be paying the mortgage upcoming. Every aspect of my life is absolute shite, which is why I wouldn't mind if it ended soon, but I'm pretty sure that's a delusion. If anyone can explain to me which thoughts in my own head I should believe and which I should dismiss, I'm all ears. How do you dismiss something you "know"? If you know in your heart of hearts that your life is absolutely shite and nobody can tell you otherwise, how do you change that way of thinking? It's not just a thought, it's something that I know for a fact, like Suzuki's really, really sucking. All in all, my life really isn't that bad, but something inside of me doesn't see things that way. Something inside of me has given up, my spirit is broken. I'll never marry or have kids, I'm too old now. I couldn't afford to take a girl out to dinner right now anyways, never mind raise a family. What's the point? It's not getting easier, it's getting harder. Nobody truly understands. I get underhanded comments from people when I try to explain things or they just tell you things aren't that bad, I'll get through, whatever. Maybe I will, but that's not guaranteed. Many of us haven't. If any of you have sat there and read through this, forget about me. This isn't about me, this is about us. I learned today how powerful this invisible enemy is, it can even turn those closest to us against us as well. We look down, we are down. It's tough to deal with people who have the problem we do. It's not an excuse though. Sometimes we're quiet, sometimes we don't go out. Sometimes we say odd things, sometimes we're inappropriate. Many times we're misunderstood, and many times we're overlooked. We get strange looks from people and sometimes strange treatment. We'll be dealing with this for the rest of our lives. Just remember, you'll never understand, but you can be understanding.

Howdy
12-16-2013, 01:01 AM
John, if there is any way I can help let me know. You are a friend and I will do what ever I can to help.
Howdy

atc007
12-16-2013, 09:41 AM
John,I Love you,my shirt is drenched with tears. I cannot possibly tell you how much this hurts. I knew,,,,,,,I obviously didn't know all the details. But I knew. I wish to Christ I had any answer for you. I have thanked you over and over for your service. But like you said. That is not what this is about literally. It's about YOU always having the balls to tell things exactly the way they are. These words will help countless others. I personally have a Niece coming to live at the farm with a vet who was over there for 2 tours. His squad is/still are his brothers. Once they separate and leave,I will have to keep my eye on him. No person can imagine war unless they have been there. So,for us to try and imagine,we can't. But your description took us there. I realize,it is NOTHING like being stuck there. If I hear what you are saying about the various garbage they pump into our warriors. Should we be surprised? In this country,most are too damn busy worrying about where that next mortage payment is coming from to SEE what IS going on. You have always known that. It is simply the American way. As far as you. A few things I can tell you for sure:) You are NOT too old to be a husband or Daddy. I won't argue right now isn't the best time lol! But you aren't too old. I hope you still have my # if not email me. I would love to talk anytime. You are a super great man,and I just pray things turn around ,, and soon, for you. I don't know what else to say. Please keep us posted here,as I truly believe these words will help a LOT of people. If there is ANYTHING whatsoever I can do for you ,please lmk. Have a good day John,one at a time.

just ben
12-16-2013, 09:53 AM
Same here John,If there is anything I can do even if you just need some to talk to pick up the phone.

fabiodriven
12-16-2013, 11:30 AM
And to add one other thing that I had forgotten about but was kindly reminded of this morning- The dreams. They are as vivid as what I see right now and absolute torture. It really sets the stage for the day when you wake up in a cold sweat. There is no escape from your own mind, awake or asleep.

tri again
12-16-2013, 05:10 PM
Wish I inew what to say.
I hesitate to even suggest I feel your pain.
What I try to do is layer good stuff on top, accumulate fabulous new memories.
I still have my va hosp parking sticker on my 61 Triumph and sometimes, it actually does make me smile a little, and sometimes cry at the same time.
I have a phone number you can have too.

dougspcs
12-16-2013, 05:56 PM
Wow John, it took a lot of courage to write that, it's clear.

Most of us, myself included, could never understand what it's like to feel this..I read every word of this and your vivid accounts are kind of breathtaking. Real, even for someone who has never experienced or seen anything like it!

I wish there was something I or anyone could do or say, but I know there isn't..

Having never met the man behind 'Fabiodriven', I can't say I've seen you at your best..but you've certainly shown all of us your worst and we all feel the pain your in.

Even those you haven't met.

It goes without saying you have friends here and anytime you need..we'll be here to support you.

I think your ability to express what has happened to you is your strength..be sure to use it! You can't keep that much trash in the can forever!!!! Hopefully this will help you to find your way..

Good luck and thoughts brother!

wisconsinite
12-16-2013, 06:09 PM
Every aspect of my life is absolute shite, which is why I wouldn't mind if it ended soon

i hate to see anyone feel this way for any reason. if it helps, remember that you are a valued member of this forum, and many, if not all, of us would miss you ( even never having actually met you). i've lost a lot of friends to suicide and it sucks. i would hate to have to add you to that list. take care, and i hope you can get back on your feet.

fabiodriven
12-16-2013, 07:43 PM
Thank you all for the kind words.

I cry a lot now. I don't think I had cried for years.

The list of shite is too long to remember all in one sitting. As long as my initial post is, there's so much more to it. I can't trust my own mind. I question things that I see and hear a lot.

I've had two very important relationships over the last 10 years that are gone now. Both of these two had very similar complaints about me which makes it fairly evident they're not making this stuff up. I tend to have issues showing emotion and I end up coming off as a very cold person emotionally when getting to know other people's families. This is not something I can help and this is something that I have been judged for on many occasions. People just do not understand. I'm the guy at the family party that's outside smoking a lot, or sitting in the corner not saying much. I can't fawking help that, I cannot control it. It's a part of who I am now, and it has cost me so much. It's not fair and it's never going to change. How do I look forward to the future?

Remember that when your relatives introduce you to someone that seems a bit off. Talk to them a bit one on one if possible. Find out if they served.

Billy Golightly
12-16-2013, 07:57 PM
John brother, I just finished reading your post in its entirety. I won't claim to know anything at all about the service and the feelings and things people feel from it because I've never served, but I do know a few things about being in some really, really deep and dark places where you wonder how you will ever claw yourself out, and what the point is even if you do...

A few sentences and statements you made really resonated with me personally... I also am very introspective and look to myself as cause for problems and issues so I identify with that a lot. At one point for me, my introspectiveness just finally sort of figured that I had to STAY BUSY. My mind wandered entirely to much if I didn't keep myself pre-occupied or wore down to near exhaustion. I won't say thats a cure, but it makes dealing with it more manageable, and from there you can learn to achieve a bit of a balance. To this day though, don't give me an "empty" day with nothing I need to do or something that I can't spend time on and leave a mark or those same thoughts come back. Day off from work but its rainy and I can't do anything outside or work in the shop? I try and learn German, or I practice my own hand writing since its shite, or I read something lofty (Like Atlas Shrugged 1,100 pages, which I actually contribute quite a bit to helping me snap out of my bad spot I was in). Something that I can see a TANGIBLE result in my efforts from the time I've spent. It preoccupies the mind, and I have something that I can look at and see that if I continue doing it, I can actually really complete it and have something worthwhile. That is worth its weight in gold.

You have a lot of friends, surround yourself with them and don't ever think you'd be "bothering" any of us. I mean that more than anything else.

RIDE-RED 250r
12-16-2013, 08:00 PM
John, I don't have the words.

They always say, never forget those who are MIA. But sometimes we need a gut check to make sure we don't forget about our neighbors in uniform who DID make it back home, all of you.

Thank you for having the courage to put your pain into words those of us not living it can understand. It needs to be known.

Prayers for you and your brothers in arms.

Bren_downe
12-16-2013, 09:07 PM
John… first off thank you for your service. It's obvious to all of us that your still, in a sense, serving.
My brother served and this book helped me understand a little, not that I could ever understand fully.
It's a real eye opener along with your thread.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0312602960/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1387241701&sr=1-1&pi=SY200_QL60
Stay strong man we all want you around!

Dirtcrasher
12-17-2013, 01:18 AM
Well John, you know that I'll always be here for you whether you like it or not. 10 miles away can be made in very short time. It's so easy for people to say" forget about the past, just move forwards and take care or yourself" But I,WE, truly have no idea what you went thru, no idea what chemicals were pumped into you but I guess when it's the government, they can do whatever they want. I've seen both your ups and downs as well as you have seen mine. If you ever noticed, I don't ask you too much about the war because I don't want to get you upset if it's something you don't care to talk about.

I am however, just down the road, I never go out except for the business so I'm pretty much always here; And I know you know that but sometimes or allot of times you may prefer to be left alone. When you and I work on something, it seems like we both enjoy it, but 2 hours later you may feel just as rotten.

From what press I have read, almost EVERYONE who went over there has declining health. And the idea of getting older and being able to keep what you have is somewhat frightening to think about but physical labor won't be getting any easier.

And I too feel like a wife, a grandson or granddaughter aren't in the cards for me either. But, my brother brought us an adorable niece and I try to spoil her. She's just coming up to 3yo and I already brought her a trike; A big wheel like we all started with :)

I think counseling is a joke (yeah, 1hr every 2 weeks and you can help me?? joke), pills are a joke and nothing seems to fix any one thing without harming another. It's terrible and we all have our own demons which can come from many different people, places or things. Some of your stuff might seem like no biggie to an outsider and you could say the say about him.

I'm sorry to see all this happen, your my friend and I'd do anything to try and help you and I know you know that.

Keep your head up, I'll talk to you soon, Steve.

fabiodriven
12-17-2013, 01:38 AM
Speaking of counselors, you know you're in a tough spot when the counselor is tearing up as you leave their office. FML...

hoosierlogger
12-17-2013, 06:50 AM
John, I am not a praying person, but I am thinking about you. I only know you from here and trikefest, like a lot of others here. You have way more people pulling for you than you know. Most have opted to stay silent due to not knowing what to say. Love ya brother hope you get these demons licked.

TecateDan
12-17-2013, 10:05 AM
Hey buddy, My and Sam's door is always open to you if you need somewhere safe to go and chill out for a while!!!!

atc300r
12-17-2013, 12:30 PM
I put you in my prayers.I live minutes from Fort Drum and see soldiers daily. I feel awful when I read about or hear about soldiers comiting suicide . Others get into legal trouble . There was a realy bad case here last year or so.A soldier recently back from deployment killed his infant child .The trial just ended a month or two ago.

atc007
12-17-2013, 12:47 PM
So John. I have been wondering. Ride report/comparison,225Dr VS 250SX. Power,handling,suspension,speed,rocks etc?? Full report please :) If you posted it I missed it. Wish I was lucky enough to be in the NH riding group,then I would know your opinions already lol.

fabiodriven
12-17-2013, 02:54 PM
The SX is the superior machine. The DR seems more fragile to me. I've not yet brought it up to NH, but I rode it a lot at Trikefest and Mik6's place. The suspension is inferior to the SX and the top end a bit loud at times. It has never liked to start with the electric starter, even though it sounds like it's cranking over just fine. It will, however, start with one pull warm or cold. You absolutely must use the compression release though. It broke my buddy's finger and I've lifted the entire machine off the ground myself pulling it. If it doesn't hurt you, you'll end up breaking the rope or the internals of the pull start.

The SX is the machine that needs no modifications right out of the box to be the best it can be. It absolutely dominates in the mountains of NH. Sure, sometimes the guys on the R's and 350X's will get the better of you in the pits or when the trails open up, but in the rough stuff they suffer. The balloon tires of the SX are the perfect suspension for the boulder strewn trails we ride. I can go as fast as the machine will go on extremely rough trails and I don't even have to pick a line. When I see something unexpected coming up with no time to slow down, I simply mash the throttle and power through it, usually in a wheelie. To this day I still wince and brace for impact when encountering something unexpected in the trail, but then it just fluffs right over whatever was in the way and I barely even feel it. It amazes me every single time I bring it up there. The guys on the R's and 350X's obviously don't have any problems keeping up, but they're going home with forearm pump and a sore back, or they're fawkin whipper snappers.

I beat the ever loving hell out of my SX. I rev it to the moon and slam it into whoops, logs, whatever. I can pick up the front wheel at nearly any speed in any gear and bounce right over many things that you would really feel on the DR. At Mik's place I took the DR out on his track in his sand pit and treated it like I would the SX. I felt like I was going to break it, and I did. I couldn't go as fast either. After about 3 laps she threw in the towel. I went and got my SX and went around probably another 40 times really hard and she didn't fade even a little bit. The DR spent the rest of the weekend in the trailer. That was when I made up my mind. However when I come home late on the weekends, I always go right to the DR. Not sure why, but I do.

Caminofeld
12-17-2013, 03:10 PM
Hey dude, first off thank you for your service and I hope you find a way to cope with all you're going through.

I got rejected from the Marines when I was 19 because I had broken my back, but I have a long USMC/public servant tradition in my Mother's family going back to WW2 and work with Vets on a regular basis. I also have many friends who served, some of whom were KIA. I can definitely say that you're not alone with your troubles.

PTSD has often been associated only with combat, but people overlook the day to day stress a deployed soldier endures in a hostile environment even if they're never engaged in direct fighting. As a truck driver I'm sure there was a constant threat of attack either via personnel or IED. Multiply that with towing a tanker of explosive fuel..you can see where I'm going with this. Long term continual stress affects the body and mind. I've seen many people have a psychotic break over less.

In the military you are bred to be warriors and are taught to believe that you're superhuman. You are given the skills to kill, survive, and endure almost any situation. Deployment is never easy, but there is a definitive structure where everyone has a role and performs a duty that contributes to the "machine". It is hardcore and bullshit is never tolerated. A major problem our Vets have is translating what they have acquired in the military into civilian life, where there is little structure and people often only do the bare minimum. Excuses seem to be everywhere and laziness abounds. No longer is a soldier a necessary and important piece of a unit, they are now individuals returning to a generally unappreciative, greedy, and disrespectful society. The change of environment in itself can be devastating. Counseling is often inaccessible and ineffective.

My last rant will be about human guinea pigs. From infecting black soldiers with syphilis to the CIA dosing hundreds if not thousands of soldiers with LSD, the Government has had a long and twisted history of using soldiers for experimentation. My Granddad was USMC Recon in Vietnam and spent long periods of time behind enemy lines being exposed to Agent Orange. In all his years of service he was the picture of fitness, but within 10 years of returning from Vietnam his physical and mental health was failing. By the time he passed, he had more medical issues than anyone with his previously healthy lifestyle should have. I have also treated a number of VN Vets with male breast cancer who almost all blame it on Agent Orange. The point is, wars are run by politicians and beaurocrats who look at numbers, statistics, and the bottom line. How much is a soldier's safety, health, and life worth? The answer will vary greatly from person to person. Soldiers know all of this and are still willing to put themselves in harms way to preserve our freedom, which is why they are so amazing and deserve all of our respect and gratitude.

Mrs.Mosh
12-17-2013, 04:14 PM
You have way more people pulling for you than you know. Most have opted to stay silent due to not knowing what to say.
This is very true.

I read this thread a few times and really did not know what to say.
I have not met you in person, but you did Mosh and I a big favor and it won't be forgotten! I hope over time you find a way to enjoy life and live the life you deserve.

I don't want to litter your thread with anything other than what you are going through, but your comments on the vaccines and living conditions makes me think of my cousin. He was a Marine in his twenties. Was over seas, met his wife in the Marines. After they came home they got married and started a family.

One day he was getting ready for work, and for reasons still unknown he passed away. My aunt who watched the baby found him slumped over. Like I said, I still to this day don't know why, but I truly think he either got something over there, or it had to do with all that stuff they pump you full of.

atc007
12-18-2013, 12:40 AM
The SX is the superior machine. The DR seems more fragile to me. I've not yet brought it up to NH, but I rode it a lot at Trikefest and Mik6's place. The suspension is inferior to the SX and the top end a bit loud at times. It has never liked to start with the electric starter, even though it sounds like it's cranking over just fine. It will, however, start with one pull warm or cold. You absolutely must use the compression release though. It broke my buddy's finger and I've lifted the entire machine off the ground myself pulling it. If it doesn't hurt you, you'll end up breaking the rope or the internals of the pull start.

The SX is the machine that needs no modifications right out of the box to be the best it can be. It absolutely dominates in the mountains of NH. Sure, sometimes the guys on the R's and 350X's will get the better of you in the pits or when the trails open up, but in the rough stuff they suffer. The balloon tires of the SX are the perfect suspension for the boulder strewn trails we ride. I can go as fast as the machine will go on extremely rough trails and I don't even have to pick a line. When I see something unexpected coming up with no time to slow down, I simply mash the throttle and power through it, usually in a wheelie. To this day I still wince and brace for impact when encountering something unexpected in the trail, but then it just fluffs right over whatever was in the way and I barely even feel it. It amazes me every single time I bring it up there. The guys on the R's and 350X's obviously don't have any problems keeping up, but they're going home with forearm pump and a sore back, or they're fawkin whipper snappers.

I beat the ever loving hell out of my SX. I rev it to the moon and slam it into whoops, logs, whatever. I can pick up the front wheel at nearly any speed in any gear and bounce right over many things that you would really feel on the DR. At Mik's place I took the DR out on his track in his sand pit and treated it like I would the SX. I felt like I was going to break it, and I did. I couldn't go as fast either. After about 3 laps she threw in the towel. I went and got my SX and went around probably another 40 times really hard and she didn't fade even a little bit. The DR spent the rest of the weekend in the trailer. That was when I made up my mind. However when I come home late on the weekends, I always go right to the DR. Not sure why, but I do.

That's what I thought. I have the same exact conclusions. Especially the fear as you know your getting into some bad stuff wishing there was some decent forks under ya!! As far as the yard putter,I totally get that too! They are a different kind of comfy for that. You should write for Dirt Wheels lol.

dougspcs
12-18-2013, 01:07 AM
The SX is the superior machine. The DR seems more fragile to me.

You know on this we totally agree..

My SX has taken some serious riding, it's never given me any grief or indication that this hard riding does a minutes harm. In fact I think it likes it..

I've owned several DX/DR and though they are a nice rider, just doesn't give me that confidence that it could take some if that same use!!

In my opinion a very accurate comparative assessment.

ditchmud
12-18-2013, 05:39 AM
Hang in there man somehow, some way things do get better. Suicide is a permanent solution to temporary problems. Keep excercising and keep yourself busy.
I know you really feel overwhelmed to even get out of bed, but do it. Sometimes you gotta fake it to make it. So force yourself when needed.


To all of you guys that are close to john please visit him and include him in your plans and if he tells you "no" do not accept that answer!

whyzee
12-18-2013, 07:06 PM
Wow Fabio, just unreal.
I believe you have the answer right in your own hand. Its not a gun , a whiskey bottle or a pill. It is your pen. It is mightier than any sword. You have a gift. Albeit a result of everything you went through while you were just trying to do an honorable duty. Let your journal be the reason you live for now. Somehow your story needs to get out. You need to be around to continue to write it. In the process you might help so many people in ways you could never imagine. After all , you can only know your own future if you continue to conciuosly make the same dangerous choices, and even then its not completely in our hands. There is a higher power .
Stay and write everyday for now.

RIDE-RED 250r
12-18-2013, 10:13 PM
TWhen I see something unexpected coming up with no time to slow down, I simply mash the throttle and power through it, usually in a wheelie.



You need to teach Dan that maneuver!! LOL! :D :beer

Are you planning to go to MIK6's in May?? I hear tell he is planning another weekend for you guys!

I WILL bring a trike this time! :D

fabiodriven
12-18-2013, 11:50 PM
Wow Fabio, just unreal.
I believe you have the answer right in your own hand. Its not a gun , a whiskey bottle or a pill. It is your pen. It is mightier than any sword. You have a gift. Albeit a result of everything you went through while you were just trying to do an honorable duty. Let your journal be the reason you live for now. Somehow your story needs to get out. You need to be around to continue to write it. In the process you might help so many people in ways you could never imagine. After all , you can only know your own future if you continue to conciuosly make the same dangerous choices, and even then its not completely in our hands. There is a higher power .
Stay and write everyday for now.

I wasn't going to say anything, but a platoon mate I showed this to has bound me to continue writing. It's in the works. He was a specialist like me back then, but now he's either a captain or a major. He's a lot more well read than I, and he wants me to tell our story.

fabiodriven
12-18-2013, 11:55 PM
You need to teach Dan that maneuver!!

BAHAHAHAA!!!! That's the thing about the SX. It is narrow so it needs a LOT of English to turn at high speeds. Narrow is good in the tight stuff but high speed turns demand attention!

I can't remember if you were there when I broke the DR or if you came after, I'm thinking after though. I know you saw me on the SX on the track though.

RIDE-RED 250r
12-19-2013, 10:18 AM
Yes, I believe it was after the DR broke. :(

fabiodriven
12-19-2013, 09:20 PM
whyzee, you were the fourth person to suggest I write something and that wasn't very long after I had originally written my first post.

I wrote for a couple of hours yesterday and quite a few more today. I have a forward, one and a half chapters, and 6324 words.

Whether or not anyone ever reads it, I am writing a book.

atc007
12-19-2013, 09:27 PM
There are NO words to say how AWESOME this is. Mark my words. IF you get this done. You will be on every headline there is. You'll open millions of eyes,and surely ,try to be shut up :) This is awesome. I want the first copy and my bid is $100 :) Edit,without going into a TON!! Of personal stuff here. I have had a very good productive day. I was gonna start a post last week about manning up and taking care of the helpless children we create. Coming from my view as a foster parent. We have had a sickening run on bad stories the last few weeks. Idiots Ignoring their very own flesh and blood THEY created .Over their own selfish wants. Anyhow, I showed one young lady an incredible day today. She's 17 1/2 years old,got her braces off today!! And we just had a super great day,and I could SEE her world opening up and her heart growing. I was feeling really good about today. , But THIS. ... THIS has MADE my day. I cannot wait for this to unfold John :)

fabiodriven
12-19-2013, 09:37 PM
There are NO words to say how AWESOME this is. Mark my words. IF you get this done. You will be on every headline there is. You'll open millions of eyes,and surely ,try to be shut up :) This is awesome. I want the first copy and my bid is $100 :)

Haha, I dunno about all that. It's getting done regardless.

briano
12-20-2013, 12:28 AM
I don't know you it I'm in for copy number 2. First off, thank you for what you have already done. Now, write, write, write. I will be the first to tell you that I could never do what you have done. Also I don't care to read anything, I come here to read and this site is what interests me, so this is what I read.

To read about you really touched something in me. Again, I've never met you and probably never will but I read your post and it's like I've known you like a brother. The way you put thing into words catches the reader. I really hope it helps you to write out your feelings.

I know several people that have been through the war and it's not easy for any of them. If writing makes you feel even the smallest bit better, please keep doing it. What the hell, write a book and sell it, you're not the only guy with the same feelings. Start a meeting group with fellow soldiers, you for sure are not alone. There are others out there going through the same thing you are but they don't open up at all.

Sorry for my rambling on but it's late and I've had a few, but keep writing. Publish a book, do something with your thoughts. There are more people out here that thank you and care about you than you realize.

bigdaddyvw185
12-20-2013, 12:51 AM
I am also in for the 3rd copy. I read your first post shortly after your posted it, i was about to go to sleep and was browsing before bed......then i came across your post, it really shook me to the core man i could not fall asleep for hours. Thank you for your service. I wish i had something better to say.... i have been trying to figure out something to say since i first read your original post... but i am still at a loss for words about it, You really have a naturally ability in writing...No doubt about it. Tho i have never met you and only no you as Fabiodriven I would really like to one day meet the man behind the screen name and shake your hand, Look you in the eye and say thank you for your service.

when you get that book all set i would really like to have a copy, And hopefully someday soon I can join in on one of these Northeast rides up in NH and meet you...... Stay strong man As it has been said by people before me.... there ARE more people out here that care about you more than you are aware of....

Dirtcrasher
12-20-2013, 01:44 AM
SX is the best but I want my friend to be at least OK. Fark the trike....................

I'm right here John and will always call back as soon as I see the text mssg or missed call.

You have this along with everything else?? That's NOT EASY!!

I can be USELESS but, I an also be a COMPASSIONATE, GENEROUS person for you just 8 miles away.

Bar sluts are a quick fix. You know that.

Maybe we can learn the TIG welder together?? I'm sure it will take time.

I love ya buddy!! STEPHEN!!

Caminofeld
12-20-2013, 11:14 AM
Bar sluts are a quick fix. You know that.


Agreed...full of venereal diseases and bad intentions:crazy:...if it wasn't so inappropriate I'd start a new thread on them...

Caminofeld
12-20-2013, 11:21 AM
I was gonna start a post last week about manning up and taking care of the helpless children we create. Coming from my view as a foster parent. We have had a sickening run on bad stories the last few weeks. Idiots Ignoring their very own flesh and blood THEY created .Over their own selfish wants.

I know this is gonna stir some trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro, but sometimes a woman can be soooooooo crazy that it's understandable why a man might need to remove himself from a child's life. I don't want to hijack the thread, so maybe you should start a new one on this topic...

wisconsinite
12-20-2013, 06:08 PM
whyzee, you were the fourth person to suggest I write something and that wasn't very long after I had originally written my first post.

I wrote for a couple of hours yesterday and quite a few more today. I have a forward, one and a half chapters, and 6324 words.

Whether or not anyone ever reads it, I am writing a book.

This is a great idea. Crank up some metal (your screen name leads me to believe you're a pantera fan) and go to town. And hey, if that doesn't help, you can always come back here to 3ww and slay some noobs:lol:

hinddee29
12-21-2013, 05:47 PM
Like the the quote states from Lt. Col. Hal Moore, "There is always one more thing you can do to influence any situation in your favor." That is something every soldier should have
embedded into their core. Your post is an obvious cry for help if I've ever seen one.. Now I am a soldier like yourself and have taken the same injections only to find at last minute
not able to deploy. So that is where are similarities differ, but I have had first hand knowledge with people with very similar remarks as you have written in this post. To tell you the
truth is very scary how close the similarities are. Then their are others that have been in the very same place (geography) wise and have zero problems at all. Awhile back I was
wondering was it some type of chemical that troops where exposed to, but wouldn't everyone then have issue or a greater number of the people that I know anyway?? So it has led me
to believe it has to be psychological instead.

Have they diagnosed you with PTSD? You sound like you are depressed and being treated just for the depression and nothing else will make huge improvement with your life physically.
Stress will screw up the body in so many ways and then will compound other issue on top of it. You have to talk about it, you have to get whatever you are hold in deep down in your soul
out. Go to concealing VA or elsewhere, surround yourself with like people that similar issues. Your right no one can know what you are going through, but there are others that may have
similar issues that may give you ideas on how to heal your inter-self. You have stop blaming your self for crap that was out of your hands and you have to forgive yourself on things you
did do. Not doing so will eat you alive and from the sounds of it you body is finally telling you to suck it up, come to terms, and move the hell on to the rest of your life. It's never to late to
do anything!! Im not saying this is going to be easy and meds and other evaluations aren't in order, but stop making excuses and being a soup sandwich and fight for your life back!! If this
pisses you off or makes you feel something at all good!! That has to count for something…

I know you don't know me or I know you, but I a friend of the Mosh's and they have talked highly of you. I personally have experienced the after affects of suicides as a father and a
friend and do us all a favor do not take that route!!! If you love anyone at all, all you will be going is hurting them for the rest of their lives. It is obvious you have a huge support group so
use it. I Look forward to your book. Best to you.

fabiodriven
01-02-2014, 09:41 PM
Y'know, I'm hesitant to write what I'm about to write. The entire point of this thread was for me to attempt to explain some of the things that are going through my head, through many of my fellow vet's heads. It was meant to give some clarity and explanation as to why I may not have been around as much as I used to. Not only in these forums, but in life in general. In retrospect, now I am unsure as to whether or not I should have written this. Obviously this is a very tough subject to tackle.

In many aspects I had assumed that many of the people who have seen this fully understood the intent of it. Conversely, however, it has also given warrant to those who would like to choose to point at me and refer to me as "crazy" or "sick". I think I made it quite clear that I do have my issues and I unfortunately once again relied on people's good nature to take the information I gave at face value. Once again, I have learned that the good nature of people can not be relied upon. This is a lesson that I have been taught continually over the last year, and I thought 2014 would be the end of it. Apparently I was mistaken.

I believe I already stated financially I have been in a better place in times past. As a little update, I will be selling my home soon and moving to another state, if all goes accordingly. I'm selling a lot of my personal belongings. This is not a situation I enjoy and it is not the way I envisioned my life going anytime soon. Today I was ridiculed by friends very close to me while they were talking presumably behind my back. They laughed at me and they laughed at my situation. They didn't know that I knew what they were saying. They called me names and thought it was funny that I'm "broke". It all started by me simply asking someone for compensation for funds I provided when I did still have money. All I wanted was half of what I gave, I figured that pretty fair. To make the rejection that much worse, the person who owes me is very well off. Once confronted about the insults and laughing at my expense, I was labeled as "crazy" and "sick". Again, I'll take the blame for this because I am the one who mistakenly thought this thread may clear some things up or thinking maybe people might understand. It seems most of you do and I am gracious for all of your kind words and thoughts. But for those who would turn my words against me, I just shake my head. A big part of what got me to this point in the first place is my trust in people's good nature. I'm always giving. I do so much for everyone else, but nothing for myself, and now I'm paying for it. I've given everything I have, not just financially, to my fellow man and for years it always came back to me. I thought that was the way to do things. 2013 taught me that is certainly not the way and I had very high hopes for 2014, which I still do, but tonight I learned that the shite storm isn't over yet. You think you know some people.

I am not crazy and I am not stupid and this is not a free ticket for anybody to label me as such. You do not understand my problems and you never will, but judge not lest thee be judged. Someday, someway, you will see. I'll be watching when it's your turn, but I won't laugh ever.

I always have and always will know the difference between right and wrong no matter how clouded my vision may get.

RIDE-RED 250r
01-02-2014, 09:52 PM
I am not crazy and I am not stupid and this is not a free ticket for anybody to label me as such. You do not understand my problems and you never will, but judge not lest thee be judged. Someday, someway, you will see. I'll be watching when it's your turn, but I won't laugh ever.


That right there is what you need to stay focused on and hang on to John.

It's so easy for me from my position to say it because I really don't have a clue what it is like to handle what you are going through, because I have not experienced the things you have.

But all of that other BS is just that. Your true friends are those who don't and won't laugh at you when everyone else around you does.

I really don't feel I am qualified to say much more than that.

Take care Sir.

wisconsinite
01-02-2014, 10:20 PM
Wow, that's pretty crappy man. Noticed a few of your recent posts, seems like your getting to feel a little more like yourself. Try not to let this get you way down. Most people are decent, but there's a few a-holes in every group. It sucks when you don't spot them right away.

atc007
01-02-2014, 10:20 PM
Well, I KNOW 1st hand how giving and gracious you are. Whoever this scumbag is that would do that is simply another problem that keeps bad things breeding. If he is a member here. I Would LOVE to know who he is. It is THE lowest form of life to disrespect a War veteran. We owe you any and all. NOT ,the other way around. It will be a long haul to finish a book,but it will do justice to MANY many folks.

fabiodriven
01-02-2014, 10:33 PM
I've been taking my time with the book but I have almost 3 chapters and 17,000 words.

The book will highlight certain events in my life that stand out particularly, if you catch my drift.

Howdy
01-02-2014, 11:23 PM
John, Crazy or Sick has never crossed my mind. In fact you have actually OPENED my eyes to things I took for granted. You might think this thread was a mistake, but I will tell you this straight out: You showed you have more mental strength to be able to post this thread in the first place.
This thread has actually caused me to have more respect for you than ever.

As I said before ( and I mean it ): If you need anything let me know.
Howdy

trike savior
01-03-2014, 02:06 AM
Can't imagine what you are going through. You are obviously a great man and I appreciate your service to your country. You have a lot of courage to write a thread like this and I hope the best for you.

don't let them feed you that, you have a drug problem B.S., because of the marijuana. They made a drug problem with all the pills and anti-depressants. The natural remedy is far more effective and less side effects than all that poisonous shite they are pedaling. Now that scientists can do studies with it legally, they will be finding all kinds of healing properties.

Had a friend in college who had PTSD. he was just finishing boot camp when 9/11 happened. he did 2 tours and decided to do college because the job market sucked anyway. I saw him steadily get worse and helped carry him out of a few bars. After a few bad "events" he started getting help and was really able to turn it around. First thing is seeking help which you have done. Keep working with the VA counselors. If you can find a local support group, it also helps. One thing they suggested to him was writing therapy which is what you are doing. You are making all the right moves. You may need to evaluate who your friends are going forward but now you know and that is half the battle. You obviously have a lot of good friends on the forum here.

Really hope the new year brings some better times for you. keep your head up and "stay frosty" (Generation Kill, HBO film series)

atc007
01-03-2014, 09:37 AM
Well said guys. I know it doesn't hardly seem feasible at this point John. But this storm will pass and there will be light at the end of this awful tunnel. This will all be another chapter in the book. I am not trying to downplay all the very real physical and mental trauma you have endured,but things will get better. You have already shown time and time and time again you are one TOUGH SOB. Stay strong.

DohcBikes
01-03-2014, 11:20 AM
Takes a real solid individual to bare themself like that, shows that you are likely way more in tune with reality than the people that make ignorant statements to you John.

My profile suggests that I'm new here, but I assure you I am not. I've been a FABIODRIVEN fan for a long time.
To a guy that always keeps it real, keeps it interesting, and is obviously full of the knowledge that we all so desperately crave....

I consider you to be one of the wheels that holds this short bus up. Keep on Rollin man.

shovelryder
05-13-2014, 09:29 AM
Geez man........Im there with ya if it helps. Lol....I cry. I used to cry a lot....on my way to work, and home.....and near anytime I was alone in the quiet. I was first over in what many call blackhawk down.....Somalia. I carried baggage I didnt want others to see....it was heavy, but it was mine. I had a breakdown a few yrs back....literally slept a few hrs in a month and a half. Barely made it out of that, but I did make it. I still have a tough time. I live a bucket list life now.....you need an ear, call me. You have a friend here.....763-438-8234....Good on you ALL for the support!

ironchop
05-13-2014, 10:09 AM
first time I`ve read this thread. "Eye-opener" isn`t a strong enough description.

I can`t quite wrap my head around the levity of your original post but it goes a long way to helping me understand.

I think everyone else has covered the "I got your back, brother" part and any addition on my part might seem trivial and dismissive even.

The thing that really struck me about you, John, was that I had ALWAYS considered you a bit of a hardass with a short fuse and no tolerance for the lesser intelligent or lesser inclined. I never judged you for that though, at times, I wanted to. I still liked you though and I`m a dick myself some of the time so I knew I had no place forming opinions about somebody I really don`t know a damn thing about. What I didn`t ever know and could never have known just from a detached semi-anonymous relationship on the internet was that you are warring with yourself inside your own head for reasons both clear and unclear and it obviously not only affects your day-to-day struggles but your interpersonal relationships with other people. I always have respect for you even when I think you were harsh those few times. I hope you don`t take it personal. I`m being honest. It`s actually more a compliment than it appears.

Sometimes its all too easy to sit in Judgement from Ironchop Mountain. Every once in a while I get reminded to shut my ego up in the closet so I can smell the proverbial roses again for a minute and be reminded that Life is much more beautiful than my own Agony, Mistrust, and Resentment will let me see. For all the sh!t I`ve been up against, there is ALWAYS someone else with their own Demons to fight with odds much greater than mine for failure.

so who the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro am I to pretend I know anything about anything?


thanks for that post.......I`d buy the book for sure. Hell, I`d buy you a beer someday but I don`t drink so that means you`re drinking alone when in my company. How about a Steak instead? It won`t fix a damn thing but I would be honored to be in the company of an intelligent and, most importantly, introspective gentleman.

Truth.

shovelryder
05-13-2014, 10:17 AM
first time I`ve read this thread. "Eye-opener" isn`t a strong enough description.

I can`t quite wrap my head around the levity of your original post but it goes a long way to helping me understand.

I think everyone else has covered the "I got your back, brother" part and any addition on my part might seem trivial and dismissive even.

The thing that really struck me about you, John, was that I had ALWAYS considered you a bit of a hardass with a short fuse and no tolerance for the lesser intelligent or lesser inclined. I never judged you for that though at times I wanted to. I still liked you though and I`m a dick myself some of the time so I knew I had no place forming opinions about somebody I really don`t know a damn thing about. What I didn`t ever know and could never have known just from a detached semi-anonymous relationship on the internet was that you are warring with yourself inside your own head for reasons both clear and unclear and it obviously not only affects your day-to-day struggles but your interpersonal relationships with other people. I always have respect for you even when I think you were harsh those few times. I hope you don`t take it personal. I`m being honest. It`s actually more a compliment than it appears.

Sometimes its all too easy to sit in Judgement from Ironchop Mountain. Every once in a while I get reminded to shut my ego up in the closet so I can smell the proverbial roses again for a minute and be reminded that Life is much more beautiful than my own Agony, Mistrust, and Resentment will let me see. For all the sh!t I`ve been up against, there is ALWAYS someone else with their own Demons to fight with odds much greater than mine for failure.

so who the trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro am I to pretend I know anything about anything?


thanks for that post.......I`d buy the book for sure. Hell, I`d buy you a beer someday but I don`t drink so that means you`re drinking alone when in my company. How about a Steak instead? It won`t fix a damn thing but I would be honored to be in the company of an intelligent and, most importantly, introspective gentleman.

Truth......Sounds like yer describing me! LOL!!! The "hardass with a short fuse" part......it makes you that way. Living day to day as life or death for so long, programs you that its always gonna be that way.....I still run forever like forest gump......because in my head its always running for my life, or my friends life. I got so bad that my kids would cry when I freaked cause theyd not grabbed the dirty shirt off the floor.....EVERYTHING feels like life or death decisions......for me anyway.....took a very long time to start to get away from that.

ironchop
05-13-2014, 10:31 AM
I saw my good friends life dissolve right before my eyes after he came home from Kuwait in Gulf War I. He was ordered to take his squad and put out a fire in an ammo dump with sh!t equipment.............The ammo dump was filled with Depleted Uranium Tank rounds.

David would eat a cracker TWO YEARS after he came home and still throw it up violently. Lost a buttload of weight. Flipped out on his wife and got a Dom Violence charge. Would cry for what seemed like no reason at all to the uninitiated eye. He never slept. If he wasn`t smoking (unmentionables) he was fighting. It was like he couldn`t turn it off.....ever. His kids are still afraid of him.

All the while, the VA was DENYING Gulf War Syndrome cases left and right as being fallacious. I couldn`t help but think what it must feel like to give so much and then be disrespected and discarded like that. Relegated to the Emotional and Physical scrap heap after war. The civilian world pretended to give a damn in a lot of cases but their attention spans were short and were quickly distracted by empty entertainment and their own selfish needs and desires (I`m guilty of this too). Media didn't help by describing War in a most sanitary and neat little black and white package with smart missles and drones and soldiers at a USO show livin it up in the meantime. They piss me off when the try and trivialize combat and death and loss and chaos. Spewing forth the sanitized and convenient lies packaged as Truth because soccer moms and cubicle dads might not feel so red white and blue should they know the truth. JMO.

Frankencelery
05-13-2014, 03:13 PM
I know this thread is old, but someone just posted on it, so it popped onto my radar. We've never met, but we've had some dialog over the years, mostly over the KLT160 that I like to pretend is mine. :rolleyes:

I'm not even going to pretend to understand what you're going through, and I've never served, but I will say thank you for your service, and I'm sorry to hear the way you've been treated. You will be in my prayers.

fabiodriven
05-13-2014, 11:11 PM
I've debated on deleting this thread and I've also thought about updating it lately. I wasn't sure what to do so I was leaving it alone. Since it was brought up, I'll put it up to date.

For about the last 3 months or so things have been going really well, but that's not been without its share of hard work. Two or three months ago I was behind on my mortgage and committed to the idea of selling my home and moving away, possibly even living out of my camper, in an attempt to track down my sanity and possibly some happiness. Obviously it didn't matter what I did at that time, every day was cloudy. I was thin, tired, severely depressed, couldn't find good work that I could handle, and completely overwhelmed. I had been through this in the past as it seems to come in waves. It isn't so much memories of actual events from war that bother me, but rather how I handle current situations due to whatever it is that happened to my head while I was deployed. Over the few short months since this thread was started I've gone from the worst point in my life to the best. I've progressed in leaps and bounds both physically and mentally. Obviously there are a lot of people who think that I'm crazy so don't take this as advise, but rather as me sharing my personal experience in life with a tough situation. This isn't being written as advise or a manual. It's just a very abridged version of how I got from there to here. Much of this will sound corny. I would think so if I read someone else writing it.

Something happened to me one day a couple months ago that "threw the switch" from down to up. One day, just like that. At that point I was still behind on my mortgage and not working but I knew that everything was going to be OK. After consciously making that decision, the "how" this was going to happen was no longer my concern. I knew it was going to happen and it has. I have learned a lot in regards to how the universe works. It will guide you if you know how to look for and follow the signs. There are some simple basics I can pass on that will improve anyone's life if they're interested. You get back what you put out. If you're angry or sad all the time you will always attract those kinds of people and results into your life. It can become perpetual. Your mind and your body are all part of the same machine and work together as one. Healthy body, healthy mind. You wouldn't do the top end on your R and then enter it in a race with a blown shock would you? Exercise is huge for me. I love my Bowflex and I sometimes run. I highly recommend exercise for problems sleeping, anxiety, and depression, as well as a host of other issues people "suffer" from on a daily basis (I don't consider it suffering if it's self inflicted health issues). If you worry or obsess about something you will undoubtedly attract it into your life whether you want it or not. If you drive around constantly concerned about getting into a car accident, what do you think is going to happen? One big thing if you want to remember any of this, there is no such thing as coincidence. I truly believe this. To me when something happens that is "coincidental", that's a sign telling me something. It is then up to me to figure out what the sign says. The results have been interesting. The law of attraction must be recognized as a law of nature, just as it's title states. It is a real thing. Ultimately that which you think of most will unstoppably be drawn to you. If you need proof of that, just look at us goons. We obviously think a lot about trikes and most of us are surrounded by them. Most people haven't even seen a trike in years and many of us haven't ridden a quad in that long. People pull up in my driveway and drop off trikes, no lie. If I were obsessed with concern about the direction my life was heading, worried about the future, knew I was useless, felt physically ill and weak, and thought about my deepest regrets every day, then that's exactly what I would draw into my life and that's exactly what I did. I am here now, but I have been there. It's not someplace anyone chooses to go to, but it is their choice whether or not they get out of there. If something you think about bothers you then very simply put, do not think about it. Think about something that makes you smile instead. Smile at other people and don't judge. Do unto other basically. It always comes back to you. I volunteered to help my buddy move some people I don't even know this past weekend. Now I'll be "hanging out" with a young lady I met that day very soon. Honestly if I sat here and listed out everything I've manifested into my life over the last few months you guys would think I was retarded. Some of it might seem small and laughable, but if you have enough things appear in your life over a fairly short amount of time it is bound to increase your good mood and therefor perpetually make things get better and better in your life, just the same way people tend to make things worse. It's not everyone's fault they are the way they are though. Everyone is raised on drugs which serve to make the sheeple nice 'n docile, then feed 'em the propaganda on the TV, fill everyone with processed garbage food... Diet is huge. You get out what you put in. Bump your big block Chevy to 13:1 and then feed it 87 octane. Same principles. Ya dig? Expand your mind and be open minded. Listen to good information and ignore the bad. Unplug from time to time, stop with the phone. There are some really big changes with mankind right now. I work in the city and three quarters of the people you see walking around have earbuds in and are on the phone or have their face buried in it. I was in downtown Boston for 8 hours today on a job where I mostly just sat. I do a lot of people watching and I see more people on the phone than interacting with each other. They'll walk by practically yelling their phone conversation into their blue tooth but nobody will talk to each other or me. I like being friendly and I have conversations with strangers. People in Boston don't even look you or each other. Maybe it's because I'm just a worker bee, who knows. I try not to judge others for any reason. Don't gossip or talk smack when people aren't around. Don't wish bad on others if you don't expect bad for yourself. Feed your brain and open your mind as knowledge is power. Just because the drug dealing government tells you something is bad for you it doesn't mean it's true. I'll take a natural remedy over their addictive garbage any day. The proof is in the pudding. I'm up every day for work before 5 am and I do a goddam good job every day and exercise every night. Much of this has to do with quantum physics and no, I am not joking about that. I am studying quantum physics.

Keep in mind, this was the abridged version. When I first started this thread, it was something I needed to get out. Especially after having been in such rough shape last Trikefest. I felt like an explanation was owed. Then after writing it I was contacted by many of you members here, it really meant so much. So many shared their own experiences with me. Some other people read my words and used them against me to shore up their argument that my thinking wasn't sound. That's fine though, let those colors shine. We each choose our own path in life and we become that which we think of most and those we keep company with. If you think like a thug and hang out with thugs, you're more than likely not going to be teaching at Harvard. You are the company you keep, so choose your company well.

I had a lot of progress with that book but once the switch was thrown into the on position, I didn't have the feel to continue it. I still have it. I think I was on the 5th chapter or so. There were quite a few pages and tens of thousands of words if I remember correctly. That's probably part of the reason I was able to improve my situation in the first place. Idle hands are the devil's workshop you know. If anyone has any questions about the weird shite I'm talking about just ask, either here or PM.

Whether you think you can or you think you can't, either way you're right.

(The time this was posted was not on purpose and it is not coincidence. Now I just have to figure out what that means.)

clmeue37
05-14-2014, 05:39 AM
First off I simply want to say "thank you". Thank you for fighting for our freedom (what's left of it anyway). Thank you for writing about your experiences overseas. You put into words what 2 of my closest friends continue to keep buried deep inside. By the time I finished reading it I was literally crying. My wife and I separated about 8 months ago and my friend Ben bent over backwards to keep me busy to keep my mind off the whole situation. He's the most giving person I know. My friend Ben did 2 tours in Iraq. He's a different person emotionally and physically now. Most weekends I head over to his place and drag him off the couch and out of the house just to keep him busy doing something lately. I don't force him and I know he appreciates it but I've never been able to understand what he's going through. I've simply been able to be understanding and now, thanks to you, I have some insight as to what he's dealing with. I will never pretend to understand what he, you, and thousands of others have to battle through on a daily basis because they had the balls to do what I don't think I ever could. If I'm chatting with a driver at work, or a stranger in a store or on the street and I find out they served in the military, I shake their hand firmly and thank them. It's disgusting how our government treats the members of our forces past and present. The least we can do is shake their hand and say thanks. They deserve it more than we can ever know.

Back to Ben. Your description of your life a few months ago mirrored his, however he won't talk to anyone about it. I've never asked about what he went through but recently he's not been himself. He calls me a few times a week. Mostly just to chat and get my faithful "Hang in there guy. You're like a brother to me and I love you man." He's been suicidal in the past and he once told me that I'd never know how much he needed to hear those words, so I tell him that every conversation we have. We all have things we have to deal with and I know I've needed to hear those same words as well.

About that book. I'm in for a copy when it's finished as well! I think the American public needs an account such as yours.

And finally, thank you for not deleting this thread. I imagine it wasn't easy to put all that out there like that but I'm glad you did. It opened my eyes a little wider. Your last post is full of excellent philosophies on living life (some of which I need to adopt and focus on in my daily life). I'm glad to hear that things are looking up for you! You are a respected member of this community and we're all pulling for you. I mean to shake your hand someday. I'll keep you in my prayers and for now, "thank you".

PS: feel free to bust my chops about this post being all over the place lol. I've had a hard time keeping my thoughts organized lately :/

fabiodriven
05-14-2014, 09:38 AM
And by the way, I have not found religion. No offense to anyone who is religious, I think that's great. I have my own beliefs which may seem spiritual to some but are more based on quantum physics.

Thorpe
05-14-2014, 01:22 PM
Fab-- All I can say is wow. I had no idea... You certainly have put things into a perspective for me, I never knew was out there. Thank you for your service, and for opening my mind to things, not always being the way they seem on the surface. I am glad life is becoming easier for you, but encourage you to keep writing even in the good times, you really have a talent for it! I would buy that book! Keep your chin up boss...

I weld stuff
06-05-2014, 10:41 PM
John,
When I read your original post there were just no words I could use to describe the emotions I was feeling for you and others in your situation.
Your update made me very happy, I am glad you are in a better place in your life. If you can still work it into your life, I feel you should keep at your book. You never know how it may help others work through their demons in life, also these stories need to be told. War is not always the answer, it is scary to look back into history and see how many wars were started to advance personal agendas and to make certain rich people much richer.
One thing I feel I should comment on is your use of alcohol to aid in the self-medication. I do not know the extent of your drinking, and obviously everyone's body is different but there is a limit to how much the body can process in an extended period.
One of my best friends was using alcohol to deal with depression and anxiety; it was easier for him than counseling or medication. Long story short he literally fried his pancreas and liver. His pancreas is working at about 10 percent and half his liver is dead. It basically ruined his life, he has been in and out of hospitals for the last year and a half cannot work, has huge medical bills, is dependent on OxyContin for the pain, and will be insulin dependent for the rest of his life. I will get off my soapbox now, sorry if this touched a nerve. But it is sad to watch this happen to a good guy.
Once again, I am glad you are doing better, and I appreciate you sharing your story, it was a big eye-opener.

shovelryder
06-06-2014, 06:39 AM
Nobody take this the wrong way....Fabio will understand what I mean Im sure...........Just wanted to note to folks keeping this thread alive, it gives me comfort to see replies here. I know Fabios place, been there a few times.......And wether its a good thing or not, it always nice to know someones on that walk with ya. Good on you all.

czac
06-17-2014, 09:37 AM
shoot, I would have never thought about any of what the OP said was going on... you do hear about some stuff, but not all... you mostly hear of PTSD and stuff like wounds and such but never of anything which may or may not be (but in my mind, most likely are) caused by the stuff like the injections upon deployment, or the sand or what's actually IN the sand... and different pathogens in the smoke and debris in the air.
I think we (those who've never been in that part of Hell, esp. during a War) tend to think the only real dangers are wizzing bullets and shells and IED's, not Sand, bugs, bug sprays and the air you breathe!

And as if all this weren't bad enough, then we hear about the recent findings about all the crap with the VA Hospital's just makes me think, "Damn, how are they ever going to get people to enlist in the armed forces now, seeing the way we are treating our Vets?" I am very grateful and thankful to each and every guy or girl who puts on a uniform and goes off to war or is back here to protect our homeland... I just wish our politicians would actually do the same, Show some thanks and appreciation damn it, its the LEAST they can do!