1983 Honda Big Red 200e Brake Drum Removal Help

[ICS Vortex]

Hey everyone, as I said earlier in my introduction thread, I would be posting a thread about my problem I'm having on my 1983 Honda Big Red 200e. I have had this thing for a few weeks and love it! I have done less than 2 hours riding on it, but I know that I love it and was born to ride it. I purchased it for $500, and traveled all the way from Coal City, West Virginia to Marietta, Ohio to get the thing! Anywho, there are a few issues with it. I got to stripping it down today as I had ordered new rear brake cables (foot and handle) and brake shoes to replace, since they were cheap anyways. I easily got everything off BUT the brake drum. It's stuck in there TIGHT! It and the brake arm (whatever the thing that the brake cables go in that pulls the brake drums inside) are both seized completely. I've tried heating it up and banging on it with a hammer, tying rope through the holes in it and twisting it very tightly with a crowbar and screwdrivers, prying it loose with screw drivers, tying a coat hanger through it and twisting is very tightly with a crowbar, all of this of course, with open and shut brake solution being applied, but I can't for the life of me get it off. I'm afraid that I'm going to have to bust the brake drum off and purchase a new one to replace it....which I can't seem to find anywhere.

Any help or suggestions would be VERY appreciated!

[Chopsaw]

Do you have a manual ? Might help to check removal process .

[ICS Vortex]

Do you have a manual ? Might help to check removal process .

I don't have an actual manual, but I have a .PDF of the original Honda shop manual for 1983 and 1984 Big Reds. I looked in it after 20 minutes of fooling with it and it doesn't help my problem.

[Ghostv2]

Just a thought here but... Sometimes with these old brake drums I heard the shoes actually begin to wear into the drum, forming a lip around the edge. So for the drum to come off, the shoes would need to pass past that lip. With the brake drum arm being seized, probably engaged a little, and the shoes worn down from somebody just trying to ride it when the shoes seized it's preventing it from coming free. If you get what I mean. I could be wrong.

As to get it off there is some penetrating oil I heard that people use to get axels loose that siezed. They spray it, let it sit, heat it, repeat until loose. I don't know exactly what the name is, but it's just a thought. Hopefully someone the vets here chime in.

Also when you put the shoes in the problem I had was I couldn't get the drum back on after installing the new shoes I got off eBay. The problem was I had to sand them down like 50% so the drum could slide back over it. Just some food for thought too.

[ICS Vortex]

Just a thought here but... Sometimes with these old brake drums I heard the shoes actually begin to wear into the drum, forming a lip around the edge. So for the drum to come off, the shoes would need to pass past that lip. With the brake drum arm being seized, probably engaged a little, and the shoes worn down from somebody just trying to ride it when the shoes seized it's preventing it from coming free. If you get what I mean. I could be wrong.

As to get it off there is some penetrating oil I heard that people use to get axels loose that siezed. They spray it, let it sit, heat it, repeat until loose. I don't know exactly what the name is, but it's just a thought. Hopefully someone the vets here chime in.

Also when you put the shoes in the problem I had was I couldn't get the drum back on after installing the new shoes I got off eBay. The problem was I had to sand them down like 50% so the drum could slide back over it. Just some food for thought too.

The arm is completely seized and won't move at all, I'm going to go take another crack at it tomorrow probably. The specifications for the brake pads are 4mm (0.02 inches) and service limit is 2mm by the way. As for the penetrating oil, I've used open and shut brake solution pretty much constantly, and it will not budge at all. I have a feeling that the brakes are still engaged since the brake arm is seized completely, I'm going to have to try to get it free somehow.

[MNhondaguy]

The arm will most likely need to be released. Keep trying hopefully it will behave. Also, not to y you don't w what you're doing, but the axle nut and lock nut need to be removed to get the drum off...I had a helluva time with mine as well, got the arm to release and used a slide hammer to get it off. Good luck.

[ICS Vortex]

The arm will most likely need to be released. Keep trying hopefully it will behave. Also, not to y you don't w what you're doing, but the axle nut and lock nut need to be removed to get the drum off...I had a helluva time with mine as well, got the arm to release and used a slide hammer to get it off. Good luck.

Yeah, I have everything removed so that I can get the drum off, it just won't cooperate. Probably tomorrow I'm going to see if I can't get the arm to budge anymore.

[tri again]

Whatever lube is on those shoe actuators dries to a paint like coating.
Melts ez with paint thinner.
I flipped my trike on it's side and darn near filled the drum with paint thinner..kinda melted the shoes too so the lining fell off in pieces.
Those don't have 2 phillips drum screws, do they? The 85+ models have hem like a car drum.
I also took a hatchett and split some 2x4's into wedges and gently pounded them in between whatever I could to get pressure against the drum.

I see what you mean about breaking the drum off.
I guess the worst that could happen with heat and boiling penetrant oils would be messing up an axle seal, if it even has one.
Just NEVER NEVER NEVER heat up brakleen..it turns into a killer nerve gas. NO joke.

[Chopsaw]

Do you have the brake cables removed from the lever ?
The manual shows 3 or 4 steps leading up to removal of the drum , that include removing nuts and bolts .
" Remove rear brake drum nuts using special tools "

[Ghostv2]

Post a picture when you get it open. Im curious as to how bad it looks, because im guessing water got inside if its this bad.

[ICS Vortex]

Post a picture when you get it open. Im curious as to how bad it looks, because im guessing water got inside if its this bad.

Do you have the brake cables removed from the lever ?
The manual shows 3 or 4 steps leading up to removal of the drum , that include removing nuts and bolts .
" Remove rear brake drum nuts using special tools "


Whatever lube is on those shoe actuators dries to a paint like coating.
Melts ez with paint thinner.
I flipped my trike on it's side and darn near filled the drum with paint thinner..kinda melted the shoes too so the lining fell off in pieces.
Those don't have 2 phillips drum screws, do they? The 85+ models have hem like a car drum.
I also took a hatchett and split some 2x4's into wedges and gently pounded them in between whatever I could to get pressure against the drum.

I see what you mean about breaking the drum off.
I guess the worst that could happen with heat and boiling penetrant oils would be messing up an axle seal, if it even has one.
Just NEVER NEVER NEVER heat up brakleen..it turns into a killer nerve gas. NO joke.

No, it doesn't have two drum screws that I can remember taking off, and I made sure that the penetrating oil I'm using is nonflammable and safe to use before heating it.

I don't have the cables removed from the handle/foot themselves, but I do have them released from the brake arm, which is the only place it should need removed.

I'll post a picture of it if/when I get off, and maybe even a picture of the drum itself before I get it off.

[ICS Vortex]

Post a picture when you get it open. Im curious as to how bad it looks, because im guessing water got inside if its this bad.

I finally got it off! After hours and hours of beating and banging on it, it just cracked and I said screw it and busted it. I ran into another problem after that... part of it didn't come off with it. I got the remaining piece to it off no problem with a chisel. But once again...I ran into a problem after that, another piece of it underneath of it that is made of steel (that holds the drum on) was still on. This is where it got complicated. I decided to take a dremel and some cutting bits and have away with it. After about an hour, I finally got through one side....another hour the other. It STILL wouldn't come off, being cut in half on both sides of it...so I decided to heat it up and take a chisel underneath of it (messed part of the threads up, but I can most likely fix it with a fine file.) and hit it off. Now, I need to find a complete brake drum for my model, which I've looked pretty much everywhere and I can't seem to find one and bearings for both sides.

Here's a link to an album of pictures (during the process of removal):
http://imgur.com/a/WpLfX

[tri again]

You're my hero.
Sounds like it got run in salt water or parked at low tide.
I wonder if any other drum will fit.?
If I have one, you can have it for free.

I found a whole rear axle assembly but not sure what it came from and has 3 lug axle nuts.

Generally, it has the axle carrier with a specific distance between the frame 'rails'.
My neighbor just went through something similar and he got stuck because of one year was very specific but another carrier assembly would fit when individual parts were nothing but trouble.

Hang in there, we'll get you out of this.

[ScreaminRed]

Good job at being persistent! Don't lose hope! Being that these machines are 25-40 years old, your bound to run into all kinds of issues. Taking your time and fixing it correctly will pay off in the long run. Then, it's just regular maintenance! :)

[ICS Vortex]

You're my hero.
Sounds like it got run in salt water or parked at low tide.
I wonder if any other drum will fit.?
If I have one, you can have it for free.

I found a whole rear axle assembly but not sure what it came from and has 3 lug axle nuts.

Generally, it has the axle carrier with a specific distance between the frame 'rails'.
My neighbor just went through something similar and he got stuck because of one year was very specific but another carrier assembly would fit when individual parts were nothing but trouble.

Hang in there, we'll get you out of this.

Thanks for the offer, but I've already purchased one. I looked for hours last night and eventually found one on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/81-82-83-HONDA-ATC-185-200-OEM-REAR-END-CARRIER-DRUM-BRAKE-AXLE-HOLDER-NICE/191016339525#viTabs_0
The guy advertises it as fitting a 81-83 model 185 and 200 trike, so hopefully it will fit or I will return it. I was amazed at the condition that it's in. If it doesn't fit my trike, I'll investigate further into your offer, thanks! :)

[ICS Vortex]

Good job at being persistent! Don't lose hope! Being that these machines are 25-40 years old, your bound to run into all kinds of issues. Taking your time and fixing it correctly will pay off in the long run. Then, it's just regular maintenance! :)

Thanks, and I definitely won't. I went ahead and purchased another brake drum, that is advertised to fit 81-83 year models 185 and 200, so hopefully it will fit! Once I get this thing fixed up, I'm never going to let it just sit like the previous owner(s) did, haha!

[Ghostv2]

I had an all OEM 85' 200s that had the original shoes on. So you know it was low hours which means it sat a lot (i know personally because my dad got it brand new in 1985). And actually this year was the first year i had to replace them because they got moisture in it, let it sit in the cold and it froze up. Some people said ride it for a bit and use your back brakes before putting it away and it should prevent it. But regardless, if its properly sealed it should be fine. Regular maintenance and these machines last forever and you wont need to replace much. Thankfully mine only the shoes froze to the drum.

[ICS Vortex]

I had an all OEM 85' 200s that had the original shoes on. So you know it was low hours which means it sat a lot (i know personally because my dad got it brand new in 1985). And actually this year was the first year i had to replace them because they got moisture in it, let it sit in the cold and it froze up. Some people said ride it for a bit and use your back brakes before putting it away and it should prevent it. But regardless, if its properly sealed it should be fine. Regular maintenance and these machines last forever and you wont need to replace much. Thankfully mine only the shoes froze to the drum.

Once I get everything fixed up and nice on this one, I will definitely do regular maintenance on it, and I'll make sure to properly seal it up and add a bunch of waterproof grease to it!

[MNhondaguy]

Cruel with that grease though. That trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro wil destroy your new brake shoes. It'll be sealed up nice but when you hit the rears, they won't work. New o- rings on the drum where the threads are and a new gasket on the drum cover will do.

[ICS Vortex]

Cruel with that grease though. That trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro wil destroy your new brake shoes. It'll be sealed up nice but when you hit the rears, they won't work. New o- rings on the drum where the threads are and a new gasket on the drum cover will do.

The drum that I purchased is supposed to come with new seals, and I know how to properly grease them :p

[kmichels]

I got a 200s that I might have to do this on... I got the 200s with no rear brake but good front brake then a 84 200e with bad front brake but good rear brake lol. I thought I read somewhere too that there are a couple of holes (which likely are rusted so unusable) on the drum where you could run a couple of bolts through and crank to push the drum off? Does anyone know more about this like what size/thread of bolt or if its true? figured it wouldn't hurt to maybe even re-thread the holes so you could know for sure what thread/size to use especially if the alternative is destroying the drum anyway :/

[cap]

It just really torx me sometimes to see how previous owners abused equipment. With just a little bit of preventive mx these problems would never happen and their bikes would last a long time trouble free, sigh...

I have a 83E parts bike but the drum is probably in not much better shape, let me know if you might be needing something.