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bkvette3
04-12-2014, 11:10 AM
Hello guys, I am sure this topic has been beat to death before but I have to ask. Just want to make sure I am doing this right. Went to my local Honda dealership to purchase 2 stroke oil for my newly acquired stock one owner '85 250R ATC. Guy behind the counter said the best oil out there is Polaris VES full synthetic snowmobile oil (which is what I purchased).

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/VES20Combo_zpsb67cea72.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/VES20Combo_zpsb67cea72.jpg.html)

They also carry Honda HP2 synthetic oil at 32:1.

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/hon_06_hp2_2_str_oil_zps0c386682.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/hon_06_hp2_2_str_oil_zps0c386682.jpg.html)

What should I use??? If using the Honda HP2 oil - can I use at 20:1 as per the owner's manual (bottle says 32:1)??? Not sure what the original owner of my trike used for 2 stroke oil. I am guessing not synthetic - will switching to a synthetic be better overall??? Or should I stay with a conventional 2 stroke oil???

Thanks in advance.... BK3

manbearpig
04-12-2014, 11:16 AM
motor was designed to run with castor oil, thats what you should continue to use.

Maxima Castor927 mixed 32:1

bkvette3
04-12-2014, 11:19 AM
motor was designed to run with castor oil, thats what you should continue to use.

Maxima Castor927 mixed 32:1


Hello manbearpig - thanks for replying - dumb question here. Castor oil is conventional oil, right??? BK3

manbearpig
04-12-2014, 11:30 AM
if by 'conventional' oil you mean car motor oil, NO. CASTOR, not CASTROL

Castor oil is bean oil. Im sure someone with a better technical explanation than i can provide will chime in soon

bkvette3
04-12-2014, 11:40 AM
if by 'conventional' oil you mean car motor oil, NO. CASTOR, not CASTROL

Castor oil is bean oil. Im sure someone with a better technical explanation than i can provide will chime in soon


NO, definitely not Castrol (automotive oil) - I hear you there.

I guess my question is: synthetic or non synthetic 2 stroke for the 250R??? What was used when the trike was new in '85??? Was synthetic even around back then??? I am guessing no.

manbearpig
04-12-2014, 11:44 AM
Castor was the pinnacle of 2 stroke oil tech when your bike was made. NON synthetic. Castor oil mixed 20:1 was used in your bike when new. modern day castor oils are better run at 32:1

Dave_D
04-12-2014, 12:01 PM
Barnett. 3. 2. 1.

Kidding aside here's a thread that might contain some useful information
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/165730-Valvoline-2-cycle-TC-W3-oil?highlight=Barnette

bkvette3
04-12-2014, 12:01 PM
Castor was the pinnacle of 2 stroke oil tech when your bike was made. NON synthetic. Castor oil mixed 20:1 was used in your bike when new. modern day castor oils are better run at 32:1

Just curious - I checked the website for Maxima Castor927 oil and in the description it indicated synthetic. Not sure if this brand is available around here. Have not seen it in stores here.

3wheelenfool
04-14-2014, 04:44 PM
Nothing like some bel ray mc1 mixed at 50:1, more power and lower engine operating temp. Just my opinion

yaegerb
04-14-2014, 04:51 PM
manbearpig is correct and CASTOR or bean oil is all I run. Specifically I run castor 927 at 36:1. Below are some helpful links.

To get educated on what oils to use...this is an excellent article from Harry Klemm and the benefits of castor oils

http://www.klemmvintage.com/oils.htm

here is where I buy my oil. Castor 927 is excellent and I hear that Super M (produces less smoke) is a good product as well.

http://www.maximausa.com/shopping/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2

jb2wheels
04-14-2014, 04:54 PM
I have a bone stock 85 250R. I run the HP2 and I run it 32:1 with no issues. I run the piss out of it in the OK dunes with my "abundant" girth on it with no issues.

I don't know anything about the snowmobile oil but those things take a beating so it should be fine.

RIDE-RED 250r
04-14-2014, 05:59 PM
2 points:

1) DO NOT use oil for outboard marine engines. It is usually a different formulation and may not be suitable for your non-marine engines. Also, many modern 2-stroke outboards have oil injection and the oils available for them are often for oil injection only and not suitable for pre-mix. It will state that on the container if that is the case.

2) Use caution when using snowmobile oils. As with outboards, some snowmobile oils are for oil injection systems only and not suitable for pre-mix. It will state this on the container as well.

For the record: I have switched from Amsoil Dominator at 50:1 to Maxima 927 Castor at 32:1 based on a variety of reasons, chief among them being the links provided by Yeagerb and the fact that I found surface corrosion inside my engine on all the major components (piston, cylinder, crank) when I tore it down to do the ESR big bore. It had a nice puddle of Dominator in the base as you want to find, but I could not believe the level of corrosion I found everywhere else! Bye-bye Dominator, hello Maxima 927. Have not found this problem since I switched to Maxima Castor oil up to this point....And I have heard from some other sources that Dominator leaves alot to be desired in the area of corrosion prevention.

For no reason other than my own personal preference, I do not under any circumstances run "universal" 2-stroke oil in my R's. That stuff is fine for my $100 weed eater, but it doesn't get anywhere near my pro-grade Husqvarna chain saws, my R's, or any other 2-stroke I own that I care about. Again, that is just a matter of personal preference in my case. Some will tell you they run it in their R all the time, and that's fine.. I'm not here to dispute them.

yaegerb
04-14-2014, 06:47 PM
2 points:

1) DO NOT use oil for outboard marine engines. It is usually a different formulation and may not be suitable for your non-marine engines. Also, many modern 2-stroke outboards have oil injection and the oils available for them are often for oil injection only and not suitable for pre-mix. It will state that on the container if that is the case.

2) Use caution when using snowmobile oils. As with outboards, some snowmobile oils are for oil injection systems only and not suitable for pre-mix. It will state this on the container as well.

For the record: I have switched from Amsoil Dominator at 50:1 to Maxima 927 Castor at 32:1 based on a variety of reasons, chief among them being the links provided by Yeagerb and the fact that I found surface corrosion inside my engine on all the major components (piston, cylinder, crank) when I tore it down to do the ESR big bore. It had a nice puddle of Dominator in the base as you want to find, but I could not believe the level of corrosion I found everywhere else! Bye-bye Dominator, hello Maxima 927. Have not found this problem since I switched to Maxima Castor oil up to this point....And I have heard from some other sources that Dominator leaves alot to be desired in the area of corrosion prevention.

For no reason other than my own personal preference, I do not under any circumstances run "universal" 2-stroke oil in my R's. That stuff is fine for my $100 weed eater, but it doesn't get anywhere near my pro-grade Husqvarna chain saws, my R's, or any other 2-stroke I own that I care about. Again, that is just a matter of personal preference in my case. Some will tell you they run it in their R all the time, and that's fine.. I'm not here to dispute them.

AMEN and well said sir!

c_hustle
04-14-2014, 06:53 PM
I have used redline for the last 7 years with no problems at all. And at the dunes you run wfo allot. But bean oil and race gas smells the best haha :)

lokisbuddy
04-14-2014, 08:29 PM
I use klots mixed 40:1 in my bikes and rotella-T in the crank case.

roostin atc
04-15-2014, 10:22 AM
I used to run the ves gold in both my air cooled r and my liquid r. I never had any issues. I ran it 32/1 it will say on the jug if it's suitable for premix.

sanchez
04-15-2014, 03:29 PM
I once was told by an outboard mec that non detergent 30w was the right oil for a 50s out board
Then I remembered what his occupation was
I bought my dad a jug of a motul outboard when I heard he was getting the row boat running he only buys the cheep blue oil when I ran it a few years back as soon as the blue oil smell went away the motor smoothed out and quite down alittle

Supper m fan hear bean oil doesn't like the cold
Most casters carry do not freeze language

$5 prize for how many times this has been asked
Payable at TF

RIDE-RED 250r
04-15-2014, 04:37 PM
Very true Sanchez about castor oils not doing well with cold weather. Very good point and well worth mentioning. If I recall it says that right on my Maxima bottles. But no worries for me, my babies don't see snow.

We get way too much snow up here for running an R anyway...well unless you spend the money and outfit it specifically for snow. But even if I did, every place I ride all summer is closed to ATV's all winter..sleds only on those. Can't even run an ATV outfitted with tracks on sled trails up here in winter.

bkvette3
04-15-2014, 07:01 PM
Man - this 2 stroke oil stuff is keeping me awake at night. I don't know what to run in it. I have only driven it once with the premix that was in it when I purchased it over 2 weeks ago. I then drained the tank. Now she sits. Confused on what to use. The more I research the topic the more uncertain and confused I get on what to use. Oh well - I got my 200es to drive. I'll figure it out one day. Thanks for the help and opinions, guys - much appreciated. BK3

RIDE-RED 250r
04-15-2014, 08:22 PM
The best advice I can give you is this: Continue your research and make your own decision based on that research and your riding habits and environment. Don't over think it.

Also, you might want to seek out what popular 250r builders have to say on the subject. You might come across some info on the web from some of them. I know ESR highly recommends Maxima 927 Castor at 32:1. I know of at least one other builder who does also.

yaegerb
04-15-2014, 08:42 PM
Man - this 2 stroke oil stuff is keeping me awake at night. I don't know what to run in it. I have only driven it once with the premix that was in it when I purchased it over 2 weeks ago. I then drained the tank. Now she sits. Confused on what to use. The more I research the topic the more uncertain and confused I get on what to use. Oh well - I got my 200es to drive. I'll figure it out one day. Thanks for the help and opinions, guys - much appreciated. BK3


You serious Clark? If that's what keeps you up at night I think we need to swap lives.

barnett468
04-16-2014, 01:28 AM
motor was designed to run with castor oil, thats what you should continue to use.

Actually it was not designed to run on Castor oil. There is no such thing as an engine designed to run on Castor oil. Castor oil is also typically for engines that run high revs most of the time. Even Maxima recommends their 927 for racing apps only.


Below is from page 11 of the 1985 ATC250R owners manual.

“USE HONDA 2 stroke oil or equivalent.

Vegetable oils separate from gasoline more easily than mineral oils, especially in cold weather. It is advisable to use mineral oil when ambient temperatures of below 0 C (32F) are expected.”

barnett468
04-16-2014, 02:34 AM
Was synthetic even around back then? I am guessing no.Hello bkvette3;

Uh oh, no prize for that answer, lol. Synthetic 2 stroke oil has been around since at least 1974. Bel Ray was one of the first mfg’s of it and it was very popular. They sponsored many AMA events. I was also fortunate enough to be sponsored by them. Klotz was another popular synthetic brand back then. As far as Castor oils go, Blendzall, Castrol R and Yamalube R were big names.




Just curious - I checked the website for Maxima Castor927 oil and in the description it indicated synthetic.You are correct, there is some synthetic in it.




Not sure if this brand is available around here. Have not seen it in stores here.Have you looked in many motorcycle shops? Out West most every motorcycle shop has it.




I don't know what to run in it. Confused on what to use. The more I research the topic the more uncertain and confused I get on what to use. …my question is: synthetic or non synthetic 2 stroke for the 250R?

From Harry Klemm.

“Despite all this very positive experience with a Castor based oil, we openly acknowledge that Castor oils “ARE NOT” necessarily the best choice for all vintage two-stroke applications.”


Below are 3 very popular, tried and proven oils. They would not be used in professional road race apps, however.

Maxima 927 - 40% castor oil and synthetic blend may separate in temps below 35 degrees f. Recommended for higher rpm apps like racing.

Maxima Super M - low ash, std oil and synthetic blend. Recommended for non racing apps.

Klotz Super Techniplate - 20% castor oil and synthetic blend. Contact for potential separation info.



Here's my avatar. I named her Bacon. Isn’t she cute?

Hi, my name is Bacon Aren't I cute.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDheK_NT7A9cIdJnV_1Pg7lGbLDWNu5 AVQnY60FToKElt_Wip72n1nHA

sanchez
04-16-2014, 11:56 AM
Find a bike mechanic that races or his kids do and see what they use. Canadian avaibility might suck. Back in western new York they sell motul line can't find supper m
I'll run motul but the supper m doesn't sting my nose
But nationally supper m is much more widely avalible

Lastly when has the oil itself been the problem with motor failure, overheating due to ridder or lean carburetor setting kills most motors parts failure or improper fit/bad motor build include most or the rest
The oil used is not the end all of keeping your bike running maintenance and proper mechanical assembly.

10$ prize for any one had a motor covered by warranty because "the oil failed"
I knew an amsoil dealer got his beat Saturn a new motor even after his records showed only once a year oil changes, the shop threw out the oil before amsoil could get samples. Amsoil made the shop and or Saturn pay. (Twin cam 96 Saturn over 150k sirca 01)

After all it just oil

RoscoW
04-16-2014, 06:00 PM
This topic has been beaten like a rented mule around here and you will get as many answers as posts. You will be fine with any high quality, semi synthetic or synthetic motorcycle two stroke oil. Everyone will have a ratio that works for them and they will range from the 20:1 (because the sticker says so) up to 100:1, what's ideal for you will be ?????.
If the Honda HP2 is available all the time, at the local dealer, any time you need it, that would be my choice. I personally use Amsoil because I can get it at any Canadian Tire or if I'm in the States it is pretty easy to find if I run low.
Basically I would pick a good oil you can get easily near you, use a ratio between 32:1 and 50:1, mix with super unleaded and fuel stabilizer the amount you will use in a month or so (fuel goes bad really fast anymore), read the jetting thread and verify that your jetting is good and go enjoy that beautiful R. Don't loose sleep over this, it's not as critical as some people make it out to be. In the 7 years I've had my R I've changed oil brands 3 times, my ratio will vary if I'm filling with litres or gallons, if I buy my oil in litres, quarts or gallons, I use the pump to measure gas, the side of the oil container to measure oil, Never had a motor issue and when I freshened it up last year had a nice little pool of residual oil in the crankcase like it should.

Ross..

El Camexican
04-16-2014, 06:42 PM
Man - this 2 stroke oil stuff is keeping me awake at night. I don't know what to run in it. I have only driven it once with the premix that was in it when I purchased it over 2 weeks ago. I then drained the tank. Now she sits. Confused on what to use. The more I research the topic the more uncertain and confused I get on what to use. Oh well - I got my 200es to drive. I'll figure it out one day. Thanks for the help and opinions, guys - much appreciated. BK3
These threads make me want to cry. The more advice that is given the more confused the poor guy gets. Dude, follow these 11 steps to a good nights sleep

- Go to your local motorcycle dealer
- Tell them you have a dirt bike and ask for the best pre-mix 2 stroke oil they have, DON’T WORRY ABOUT THE BRAND NAME
- Read the label
- Make sure it’s not specifically made for outboard motors, chainsaws or for oil injected engines
- If it says it is suitable for pre-mix buy the can
- Take it home and mix it according to what the manufacturer says on the can. Odds are it will be between 32:1 and 60:1
- Use a measuring cup of some sort and be sure of your math
- Add it to your fresh jug of gas, cap it and shake for 10 seconds
- Carefully remove the cap and add the fuel to your tank through a filtered funnel if you have one
- Ride your trike
- Count 250R’s jumping fences if you are having trouble going to sleep

Curtie223
04-28-2014, 04:51 PM
I personally only use Motul 800

NeverLift
04-28-2014, 05:38 PM
Hello guys, I am sure this topic has been beat to death before but I have to ask. Just want to make sure I am doing this right. Went to my local Honda dealership to purchase 2 stroke oil for my newly acquired stock one owner '85 250R ATC. Guy behind the counter said the best oil out there is Polaris VES full synthetic snowmobile oil (which is what I purchased).

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/VES20Combo_zpsb67cea72.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/VES20Combo_zpsb67cea72.jpg.html)

They also carry Honda HP2 synthetic oil at 32:1.

http://i961.photobucket.com/albums/ae98/bkvette3/hon_06_hp2_2_str_oil_zps0c386682.jpg (http://s961.photobucket.com/user/bkvette3/media/hon_06_hp2_2_str_oil_zps0c386682.jpg.html)



What should I use??? If using the Honda HP2 oil - can I use at 20:1 as per the owner's manual (bottle says 32:1)??? Not sure what the original owner of my trike used for 2 stroke oil. I am guessing not synthetic - will switching to a synthetic be better overall??? Or should I stay with a conventional 2 stroke oil???

Thanks in advance.... BK3

Polaris VES gold is good stuff but it was designed to keep your exhaust(power) valve clean. Which you don't have so I would return that for whatever else you choose.

ironchop
04-28-2014, 05:39 PM
I USED TO USE Spectro Gold @ 32:1 in both my Honda dirtbikes (mostly because it was all the Honda and the Yamaha shops near me sold back then)...but that was the 80`s- early 90`s......do they even make Spectro still?

Dirtweed
04-28-2014, 09:50 PM
All I have ever used in any of my 2-strokes is Golden Spectro from my quad to my trike to my weed eater.
Still buy it at the dealer.

yaegerb
04-28-2014, 11:17 PM
I USED TO USE Spectro Gold @ 32:1 in both my Honda dirtbikes (mostly because it was all the Honda and the Yamaha shops near me sold back then)...but that was the 80`s- early 90`s......do they even make Spectro still?

Yes sir and I have used Golden Spectro 4 in my 200x flat track bike...20w50 of course :) Also a good quality oil if I don't have my trusty Maxima.

badandy
04-29-2014, 06:13 AM
STUPID QUESTION... I've seen as many responses to this as in this thread...
do I run crankcase oil different than my premix oil, because it seems that it should be the same...?

badandy
04-29-2014, 06:55 AM
honda manual calls for 4 stroke oil.... which makes no sense to me, if residual unburnt oil will end up in the crankcase.....

I use mobile 1 full synthetic in my 4strokes

atc300r
04-29-2014, 08:01 AM
Find a good quality oil thats plentiful in your area and go with that.HP2,klotz,golden spectro,Amsoil. ect,ect,ect,Wich ever oil you go with stick to it.Its not good to mix different brands of two stroke oil.I use Amsoil Dominator in three of 250r motors 2 aircooled, 1 liquid at 32:1 91 octane non-ethol gas.Iv owned 2 of my trikes since 85.I ran klotz for years but always fouled plugs so I switched to Amsoil because around me its plentiful and my uncle ran it for years in his 250rs without any trouble.

RIDE-RED 250r
04-29-2014, 03:25 PM
honda manual calls for 4 stroke oil.... which makes no sense to me, if residual unburnt oil will end up in the crankcase.....

I use mobile 1 full synthetic in my 4strokes

Yes, the transmission oil you want to use in a 250r is often used in 4-stroke engines. You are only lubricating the transmission and clutch when filling that part of the 250r engine. What lubricates your piston, cylinder, crank bearings and rod bearings is the oil you are mixing with your fuel. The oil you are putting in the transmission is not supposed to end up in the crankcase. If it does, you have work to do on your engine.

2_stroke
05-05-2014, 12:59 AM
run the castor

4x4van
05-05-2014, 06:13 PM
I've run Golden Spectro at 50:1 in every 2-stroke I've ever owned since the early 70s. Still do, no reason to change.

Use a good 4-stroke engine oil in the crankcase.