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czac
04-23-2014, 08:15 AM
So Im making a small range in my yard, mostly for .22LR but on occasion a .32 and a .380
I have two trees about 8 feet apart and was stacking logs and branches up between them long ways, like as if I was making a fence or wall...lol they are all between maybe 1-1/2" -6" round and its now about 4 feet tall. and maybe 12" thick. Now at work we have wooden skids and so I am thinking if I take like two and put them back to back, then put steel mesh on the outsides or even just some scrap plywood, the fill them with sand and put them behind the logs, it should make a good backstop no? there would be 12" of wood, then the round would have to go through a sheet of say, 3/4 ply, then through 4-6 inches of dirt and out through another 3/4" ply wood sheet. I know it will stop a .22 and the .380 and im like 99.999% sure it should stop a .380 What im not sure is, will it stop a 7.62x54 R from a Mosin? (it would be shot very rarely due to it being really loud and a couple of the neighbors "may" take exception to the noise.

all in all id like the back stop to be like 8 or 9 feet wide by like 7 or 8 feet tall and I have a lot of skids here at work so its not a problem getting them.

ezmoney1979
04-23-2014, 09:44 AM
How close are your neighbors? You should probably go far out into the woods if you want to shoot guns. No need to piss off the neighbors.

redsox
04-23-2014, 09:56 AM
i dont think you'll have an issue with round stoppage if you hit the berm. what's behind your berm? take angles into consideration. are you low in comparison? high? consider where a round would go if it didnt hit the berm. if the answer is the neighbors kitchen, i'd reconsider.

ironchop
04-23-2014, 10:10 AM
a mosin?.....NO. You are going to need more backstop for a Mosin.... 3ft min.

czac
04-23-2014, 10:33 AM
How close are your neighbors? You should probably go far out into the woods if you want to shoot guns. No need to piss off the neighbors.

lol ill be shooting into the 35 acres of woods that border my property. I have one neighbor across the street from my house who used to be our towns first selectwoman and although we are very friendly, I can see her as the type to get PO'd really fast and complain, but on the other hand, she does own a little .22 pistol and may want to come over and shoot it... lol then there's the older hippie couple on the other side who probably wont care too much as long as its not a constant thing every day shooting. the other two house are gun people who are shooting and hunting a lot in the woods and stuff. they wont care.

czac
04-23-2014, 10:36 AM
i dont think you'll have an issue with round stoppage if you hit the berm. what's behind your berm? take angles into consideration. are you low in comparison? high? consider where a round would go if it didnt hit the berm. if the answer is the neighbors kitchen, i'd reconsider.

behind the berm is woods but a mosin round may get lucky and make it to the part of the road that's maybe 400-500 feet past it...that's if it doesn't hit a tree first. im up a little higher than the ground behind the berm, on a hill.

czac
04-23-2014, 10:38 AM
a mosin?.....NO. You are going to need more backstop for a Mosin.... 3ft min.
lol.. I was thinking that. maybe I should get those soft rounds that turn to powder on impact... lol or that reducer I see on ebay that lets you shoot .32 rounds in the mosin. lol like that's accurate! lol

Chopsaw
04-23-2014, 09:19 PM
lol.. I was thinking that. maybe I should get those soft rounds that turn to powder on impact... lol or that reducer I see on ebay that lets you shoot .32 rounds in the mosin. lol like that's accurate! lol

I count 4 LOL ? Hmm . Glad I don't live close to you . Pull the trigger you should know where its going .

If you are serious about this , they sell lead lined traps for .22LR .
I know of gun shops that do repairs use a stack of phone books that will stop 30.06 , but that's indoor and wont work for you outside .
I had one made of concrete block filled with sand . .45 ACP destroyed it .
You need to stop the path , not redirect it . Wood and sand wont do it .
Solid dirt burm , height and width per yards of shooting lane .

czac
04-24-2014, 08:14 AM
I count 4 LOL ? Hmm . Glad I don't live close to you . Pull the trigger you should know where its going .

If you are serious about this , they sell lead lined traps for .22LR .
I know of gun shops that do repairs use a stack of phone books that will stop 30.06 , but that's indoor and wont work for you outside .
I had one made of concrete block filled with sand . .45 ACP destroyed it .
You need to stop the path , not redirect it . Wood and sand wont do it .
Solid dirt burm , height and width per yards of shooting lane .

Oh I know where its going... just not too sure its going to stop once it gets there.
you think wood logs and skids packed with dirt wont stop a .22? 0r .380? I also have the option of making a sort of, plywood box what ever size I need it to be and fill that with the sand / gravel mix.
Like I said, I don't need to shoot the Mosin at the house, my main thing is basically the .22, .380 and the .38

I was thinking of the phone books too... since the phone company here seems to like throwing them all over the place. I saw a post somewhere once where a guy saw some company throwing away all these corrugated cardboard sheets so he took a bunch and laid them on top of one another then sorta, squished or clamped them down between two pieces of 2x8 (I think it was.. or 2 x 6 or so) anyhow, he compressed them as much as possible and used it as an archery target. Doing this with the phone books would work, even for outside because when clamped down the water wont be able to get in to the books as easily, apply a bit of water seal for decks and such and it'll be even better, then there's always the fact that it can be covered with a tarp when not in use.

Hmmmm.... Maybe I should start saving those phone books now.

czac
04-24-2014, 09:22 AM
How bout targets with pic`s of dudes with CREEPY HIPSTER BEARDS that look like Yady-Cum-Lady !:Bounce:Bounce:wondering:Bounce:Bounce

lol... nice.

Caminofeld
04-24-2014, 04:12 PM
I've never made a backstop before, but I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting into anything outdoors that's not a hill with significant overage and lateral spread (also free of rocks that could ricochet). Remember, you are representing the firearms community as a whole and a mishap will have repercussions that affect more than just you. Every time an accident or incident occurs with a gun, the antigunners have another excuse to chip away at our second amendment rights.

Aside from shooting responsibly, remember that your neighbors may not like the noise and can file a nuisance complaint...or work to ban shooting in your area altogether. I just went through this with the farmer next door. My range is perfectly legal due to a large natural backstop and being greater than 150 yards from any occupied dwelling. However, he didn't appreciate the "rapid fire" 3-4 times a week for hours on end...and understandably so (we run tactical shooting drills on a regular basis). In talking to him I realized how inconsiderate it was of me to do that and also how some of the surrounding towns had passed "no shooting" laws due to similar disputes making their way to town hall meetings. In short, he turned out to be a nice guy and we worked out an arrangement where I can shoot Sunday afternoons for less than an hour and once or twice a month with advance notice can have my friends out and drill for 3 hours or less. You should definitely find out the local laws and then discuss shooting with your neighbors first. We all need to work really hard to reverse the negative image of gun owners.

Chopsaw
04-24-2014, 04:50 PM
Oh I know where its going... just not too sure its going to stop once it gets there.

Then I would say you don't know where its going .

Caminofeld , well stated .

Scootertrash
04-24-2014, 04:55 PM
I agree with chopsaw: Your use of lol's sounds juvenile and immature. You're asking about a very serious subject that has the potential of damaging property and/or injuring or killing innocent bystanders if you don't construct a proper backstop for your bullets.

Do you know that a .22 LR fired at a 30-degree angle from a rifle will travel approx. a mile or so?

First and foremost, check your local laws and ordinances and see if they have anything that prohibits or restricts shooting in your area. As long as you're not breaking any laws the neighbors can't do anything about you shooting, as long as you are being safe about it. That said, be courteous: Don't start shooting at 5 in the morning or at midnite.


ill be shooting into the 35 acres of woods that border my property

If it's not your property, you shouldn't be lobbing bullets onto it unless you have permission. Even if you have permission, how will you be sure that no one is wandering around the property in the area you will be shooting? "Nobody ever goes back there" and "I'm pretty sure no one is back there" are not the proper answers. It also doesn't matter whether or not they are trespassing or have permission.

If that 35 acres is state land, that will raise other concerns and will be governed by any state laws.


I have two trees about 8 feet apart and was stacking logs and branches up between them long ways, like as if I was making a fence or wall...lol they are all between maybe 1-1/2" -6" round and its now about 4 feet tall. and maybe 12" thick. Now at work we have wooden skids and so I am thinking if I take like two and put them back to back, then put steel mesh on the outsides or even just some scrap plywood, the fill them with sand and put them behind the logs, it should make a good backstop no? there would be 12" of wood, then the round would have to go through a sheet of say, 3/4 ply, then through 4-6 inches of dirt and out through another 3/4" ply wood sheet.

Very bad design. Using logs and sticks as your primary bullet stop is a bad idea. Logs and sticks are round(ish) and can deflect rounds and cause ricochets. You should reverse the installation of your sand and logs. Your log retaining walls should look like this (sort of): /-\ make a modified "V" and square off the point. Fill, and I mean FILL, the inside of the V with sand. I would say you should have 3-4 feet of sand (front to back) where you will be locating your targets, as well as 3-4 feet high.

You should also have a 3/4 plywood top over the V. Eventually the areas that you locate your targets in front of will become loaded up with spent bullets which can also cause ricochets, including up and over your bullet stop.


fill that with the sand / gravel mix

No gravel. Bullets ricochet off of rocks, even small rocks. Sand only.

There is a reason the military and outdoor shooting ranges have used sand as a bullet stop forever. Because it works.


a mosin?.....NO. You are going to need more backstop for a Mosin.... 3ft min.
Nah. Less than 6 inches of sand stopped a 7.62X51 (.308). Mosin shoots a 7.62X54 not much more that a .308. I do however agree with your 3 ft minimum, just for safety's sake in general. ;)

Here's a little look at why sand is used for backstops:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot7.htm

ironchop
04-25-2014, 08:19 AM
I've never made a backstop before, but I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting into anything outdoors that's not a hill with significant overage and lateral spread (also free of rocks that could ricochet). Remember, you are representing the firearms community as a whole and a mishap will have repercussions that affect more than just you. Every time an accident or incident occurs with a gun, the antigunners have another excuse to chip away at our second amendment rights.

Aside from shooting responsibly, remember that your neighbors may not like the noise and can file a nuisance complaint...or work to ban shooting in your area altogether. I just went through this with the farmer next door. My range is perfectly legal due to a large natural backstop and being greater than 150 yards from any occupied dwelling. However, he didn't appreciate the "rapid fire" 3-4 times a week for hours on end...and understandably so (we run tactical shooting drills on a regular basis). In talking to him I realized how inconsiderate it was of me to do that and also how some of the surrounding towns had passed "no shooting" laws due to similar disputes making their way to town hall meetings. In short, he turned out to be a nice guy and we worked out an arrangement where I can shoot Sunday afternoons for less than an hour and once or twice a month with advance notice can have my friends out and drill for 3 hours or less. You should definitely find out the local laws and then discuss shooting with your neighbors first. We all need to work really hard to reverse the negative image of gun owners.

that's the most intelligent and responsible thing I have heard from a fellow gun owner in a long time. Too often these days, we all get caught up in the relentless attack upon us by those who are only interested in their own rights and comfort at the expense of ours and then out of resent, we just throw our hands up and say trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro them and go on being loud and irritating with no regard for consideration.

I was able to quiet many of my neighbors after my constant gun shooting and loud as hell four stroke riding out back was irritating them to no end. It was sometimes all day long. Once I had a few complaints in person and we worked it out in person, they quit calling the cops and my landlord and are friendly now. All I had to do was not be loud ALL the time but rather only part time and ASSURE them that I was exercising firearm safety and INVITE them to try out my rifles. Some did, some declined, but everybody went away from it feeling respected and content

Thanks for that post.

czac
04-25-2014, 09:47 AM
I've never made a backstop before, but I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting into anything outdoors that's not a hill with significant overage and lateral spread (also free of rocks that could ricochet). Remember, you are representing the firearms community as a whole and a mishap will have repercussions that affect more than just you. Every time an accident or incident occurs with a gun, the antigunners have another excuse to chip away at our second amendment rights.

Aside from shooting responsibly, remember that your neighbors may not like the noise and can file a nuisance complaint...or work to ban shooting in your area altogether. I just went through this with the farmer next door. My range is perfectly legal due to a large natural backstop and being greater than 150 yards from any occupied dwelling. However, he didn't appreciate the "rapid fire" 3-4 times a week for hours on end...and understandably so (we run tactical shooting drills on a regular basis). In talking to him I realized how inconsiderate it was of me to do that and also how some of the surrounding towns had passed "no shooting" laws due to similar disputes making their way to town hall meetings. In short, he turned out to be a nice guy and we worked out an arrangement where I can shoot Sunday afternoons for less than an hour and once or twice a month with advance notice can have my friends out and drill for 3 hours or less. You should definitely find out the local laws and then discuss shooting with your neighbors first. We all need to work really hard to reverse the negative image of gun owners.


my neighbors should be ok with the noise as I wont be shooting more than a couple times a week or if im sighting in a scope or something. and two of them shoot on their land all the time and the third has a gun so Id invite her to come shoot any time she wants to, not that I think she would but you never know, plus she's in Florida all winter long so in the colder months id be fine there. As for noise ordinances, there's none except between the hours of like 9 pm and 6 am or something like that, I forget but I looked it up last summer. Also the only shooting laws is no shooting on public land and no shooting within 500' of any buildings, but that's for hunting and not target shooting... and there's no laws or codes for shooting ranges as in sizes and types. the cops will come over if they get a complaint but as long as you have a back stop you're good. unless your shooting into the forest with no one around... I think it would be hard to pass a shooting ban in my town as everyone it seems is out side shooting on weekends...lol between hunting and targets, it sometimes sounds like a war zone... lol The only real complaints are from people who move in from the cities and from the more densely populated towns thinking they are going to move to the country and have peace and quiet...lol but these people also complain about the smells of manure from the farms, about animal neglect because the farmers chickens are roaming, or the cows were standing out in the rain, or about tractors or other farm equipment driving on the roads... I think its a kinda shock to someone not used to this stuff. And the town isn't even that rural... its being built up rather quickly. When some old land owner dies he gives the land to his kids who promptly sell it to some developer who makes a bunch of McMansions and gives it some silly name like Forest Glen or Peaceful River View Bluff or some BS like that. lol

czac
04-25-2014, 03:07 PM
here is a photo of the area for reference.. lol
the area marked out in blue is vacant woods approx. 35 acres. its private property owned by someone who lives in Florida.

http://www.brokenfencephotography.com/photos/i-HqMMvV2/0/L/i-HqMMvV2-L.jpg

El Camexican
04-25-2014, 09:13 PM
If it was me I'd make a hill out of sandbags, cover it with dirt and sod it. Make it big enough to allow a rookie to try shooting from 25 yards without fear of whacking some hiker in those woods.

DohcBikes
04-27-2014, 05:59 PM
Czac i dont know if you are missing the point or if you are attempting to be facetious on purpose. Honestly it really isnt a laughing matter.

Although i dont think these guys are right for what I perceive to be an attempt to walk you hand in hand through the mire of gun politics, its still important that we as gun owners not take the stance of exercising our rights just for the sake of doing it.

I for one appreciate your inquiry for input on the subject, that alone speaks about your level of safety and responsibility, but its just good sense to talk to the neighbors about it too. You never know when that guy from florida could have people on his land!!

czac
04-28-2014, 10:10 AM
Czac i dont know if you are missing the point or if you are attempting to be facetious on purpose. Honestly it really isnt a laughing matter.

Although i dont think these guys are right for what I perceive to be an attempt to walk you hand in hand through the mire of gun politics, its still important that we as gun owners not take the stance of exercising our rights just for the sake of doing it.

I for one appreciate your inquiry for input on the subject, that alone speaks about your level of safety and responsibility, but its just good sense to talk to the neighbors about it too. You never know when that guy from florida could have people on his land!!



Oh no, even if Im putting "LOL" in here and there, I know its no laughing matter. And I am most definitely NOT trying to be facetious. Yeah I live 15 minutes from that school in Newtown and I know all about CT's gun politics as well as the Federal gun laws. What I wanted to know was, is a backstop made of logs with about 6" of packed dirt behind it a good backstop or not.

Anyhow, since my original post, I have decided I do not like the placement of the original backstop and have decided to place it over to the right about 100 feet and angle it so if god forbid, Anything DID happen to get past it, it would head into the cliffs that are back in the woods about 200' or so.

I have also reconsidered using the logs. I am thinking, I will make a log wall and then pile dirt in front of it (the logs will be to hold the dirt back from falling down the back when it rains)

I have a big enough pile of clay/sand from when my basement was dug (im guessing) that would make for a perfect back stop. I just have to get it moved from where its sitting now so Ill have to find someone with a loader to clear a spot in the back for it (which I can also have a sort of ramp dug down a few feet as well) then pile the dirt there with the lags behind it to hold it all in.

As for anyone who thinks im just screwing around and not being serious or im not trying to be careful, youre wrong. Im asking fellow shooters what they think a good backstop would be...that's all.

I thank you all for your ideas and points, all great info!

czac
04-28-2014, 10:22 AM
I for one appreciate your inquiry for input on the subject, that alone speaks about your level of safety and responsibility, but its just good sense to talk to the neighbors about it too. You never know when that guy from florida could have people on his land!!

Thanks! My Neighbors are cool, Like I said there's one im who im not 100% sure about but she's also a shooter so Ill invite her over put a few rounds through her gun, and offer to clean it and stuff for her. And I think her son shoots too so I may be able to talk him into using his loader to dig out the well and move the clay / soil to it!

The biggest worry is that yes, someone might decide to go walk around in the woods... but I was also thinking of putting some sort of signs up that say "beware of gun shots" or something to that effect around the area where any rounds would be going if they got past the trap. Just in case someone does decide to go walking around. Plus, this isn't going to be a daily thing where im out there for hours with other guys shooting. like I said 0ne or two time a week possibly, if that.. maybe every other week? Ammo is still not cheap or easy to find like it was in 2012.

czac
04-28-2014, 10:28 AM
Connecticut sucks for gun owners be careful and good luck. A coworker from out of state came to my house and we were on my 7 acres shooting handguns into a huge pile of woodchips this winter. Three police cruisers were driving up and down my road for an hour afterwards. We shot less then 40 rounds and the cops arrived in five minutes. Not anything like when I was growing up to say the least. It's terrible anymore in our state. Can't even buy ammo these days without a special CT ammo purchase ID card - a federal firearms permit is not enough proof for Connecticut. Talk about complete BS right?
what town? Im over in Oxford. Yeah, I already talked to the police Well the State Police Sargent in town and although he wasn't sure on target shooting in town he did quote the "500 foot rule" which is for hunting and not target shooting. but he did say, "Im not telling you that you cant shoot but, if we get a call about gun shots, we HAVE to respond and if we do and find things aren't in order, you can be arrested". And I know they do come for shots fired cause my NRA safety instructor has them come out all the time when he shoots in his out door range. they come over, tell him they got a call and had to stop in then leave. then again, he shoots some major arms, ill be shooting mostly a .22 CT sux now ever since Dan "the stammering fool" Malloy took over!

trike savior
04-28-2014, 01:00 PM
sounds like CT makes it a lot of fun for law abiding gun owning americans.

as for your backstop:
I have built one on my buddies property that the police have seen and liked a lot better than what they see when they usually get called out.
I would not put anything in the backstop. it should be nothing but dirt. i know the chances of a ricochet off of some logs are pretty slim but it is possible and not worth it. if your pile of dirt starts to erode, it can easily be fixed with a shovel. it has been 6 years since we built the backstop at my buddies and we have not had to fix it yet.
i like what you are doing using the google earth to identify what you want to keep out of the firing line. your only problem is your property size and where you are wanting the backstop. any bullet that might miss the backstop is your responsibility. having the backstop so close to land that is not yours gives you a lot less control or knowledge of people who are within range and in the line of fire.
my suggestion is to keep your firing line, as it looks safe, but move the backstop so more of your property is behind the backstop. moving it closer to the road, behind what looks like a garage, will be a lot safer. it looks like you will be shooting in your front yard then but it allows you to be more in control of what and who is behind the backstop.
as far as construction, dirt only, needs to be 8-10' tall, 10-15' wide, and have a bit of a c shape. in my case we shoot uphill in a field so i dug down 2' in front of the backstop and piled 8' of dirt on top. the front side does not need to be steep and flat like a cliff to stop bullets, that just makes it erode quick.
the bigger and better you build this, the better off you will be when the police are called to check it out, it will happen. it is a days worth of work with a bobcat skid steer that most rental centers have available for $150-250 a day.

safe shooting is fun shooting.

czac
04-28-2014, 01:43 PM
sounds like CT makes it a lot of fun for law abiding gun owning Americans.

Yeah, they are making it so bad... we are now more or less Criminals just for owning guns, and it could have been worse if they got their background checks and total registration of EVERYTHING as im sure there are tons of people in the state like my 88 year old father who have rifles and such they have owned for years and years and years who wouldn't go register and thus become an instant threat and criminal! As it is they are saying between 100,000 and 300,000 people haven't registered their banned weapons yet... this should get interesting as I don't think they'd be able to actually arrest that many people, I bet they are going to start sending out heavy fines and warnings to register or then be taken into custody! As it is, a lot of us who registered have not heard anything back from the state yet.


as for your backstop:
I have built one on my buddies property that the police have seen and liked a lot better than what they see when they usually get called out.
I would not put anything in the backstop. it should be nothing but dirt. i know the chances of a ricochet off of some logs are pretty slim but it is possible and not worth it. if your pile of dirt starts to erode, it can easily be fixed with a shovel. it has been 6 years since we built the backstop at my buddies and we have not had to fix it yet.
i like what you are doing using the google earth to identify what you want to keep out of the firing line. your only problem is your property size and where you are wanting the backstop. any bullet that might miss the backstop is your responsibility. having the backstop so close to land that is not yours gives you a lot less control or knowledge of people who are within range and in the line of fire.
my suggestion is to keep your firing line, as it looks safe, but move the backstop so more of your property is behind the backstop. moving it closer to the road, behind what looks like a garage, will be a lot safer. it looks like you will be shooting in your front yard then but it allows you to be more in control of what and who is behind the backstop.
as far as construction, dirt only, needs to be 8-10' tall, 10-15' wide, and have a bit of a c shape. in my case we shoot uphill in a field so i dug down 2' in front of the backstop and piled 8' of dirt on top. the front side does not need to be steep and flat like a cliff to stop bullets, that just makes it erode quick.
the bigger and better you build this, the better off you will be when the police are called to check it out, it will happen. it is a days worth of work with a bobcat skid steer that most rental centers have available for $150-250 a day.

safe shooting is fun shooting.

those are some pretty good ideas. im thinking now, because im on a sorta hill and the 35 acres is mostly down hill with a little valley (30 -40' lower im guessing) with another rise on the opposite side... Maybe I should do a sand backstop and then another one but a bit bigger at the property line? so I can move mine up more into my property as you explained and then another one, sort of like an insurance plan behind it? or would it just be better to dig in to the ground, sort of like a ramp that ill shoot down into? and use all the earth removed in the process to make the C-shaped berm along the top? dig say, 4 foot down with a 6 foot berm on top? so id be shooting at a downward angle this way nothing would be going over the berm if there was some type of weird, freak wild shot or something.

trike savior
04-28-2014, 03:29 PM
if you are facing an up-hill where the shooting range will be, digging down into the ground for some amount of feet is always a good idea. brings you closer to level shooting and makes accidentally shooting over the top less possible. Freak shots aside. make sure you remove enough dirt from in front of what you dig out or dig a ditch. if you do not get the drainage right, it will become a mud hole. makes setting up and retrieving targets a mess

same idea works when facing a downhill shooting range. digging it out some will keep bullets lower and less likely to go over the wall. but the drainage gets tricky as your backstop becomes a dam.

correct about using what you dig out to make the wall above (berm)

do not invest time in a second backstop. it does not look like you have enough property for a second backstop to do anything. invest the time in making your backstop larger. my measurements are minimum. there was 25 acres of my friends woods behind our backstop so we were not worried about bullets leaving the property.

i drive by a state police firing range along side the highway and their backstop is as tall as their building, 25ft? you can tell it was all trucked in dirt, cant imagine what it would have cost. so the taller the better.

czac
04-28-2014, 04:01 PM
nice... I was talking to the owner of the Landscaping material place when I buy mulch and garden soil and the place is HUGE, its near the water and in an industrial zone pretty far back away from the city I work in, and its got piles and piles of dirt, gravel, mulch, wood you name it and when Im there I keep thinking what a grate range it would make, so I mentioned it to the owner and he was like, yeah, we're out here every Sunday, another good thing is all these piles absorb the noise, he says you can hardly hear it from the road. I gotta get on his good side now to be able to go there and shoot... lol