200es Big Red, big rim problems!

[Mr_Gixxer]

So I have replaced the rear rims to make it a little wider and swapped one of my old rears to the front because my old front rim had a bent bead. I ordered a pair of AMS steel 3+6 rims with 4/150 bolt pattern and painted them and mounted the tires. First issue is that the hub centric rings do NOT fit on neither side of this rim. So I bolt them on anyway. With the rear end blocked up I can immediately see a MAJOR issue with both of them. They wobble like CRAZY! So now what do I do? The seller may not take them back due to painting them but what else could I have done? Can I shim the rim out with washers on the studs behind the rim to make it straighter? Even still, shouldn't I have the hub rings in too?

This has turned out to be a royal pain and an expensive one. Right now I've got probably 250 bucks tied up into rims and tires for absolutely nothing. One thing is for sure, in my limited experience these AMS replacement rims do NOT fit the 200es like they are advertised. BUYER BEWARE!

Here's a video of what this wobble looks like, video quality would have been better if it was daylight out. I can try to take a better video if need be tomorrow at higher rpms where you can see this wobble a little better. Both sides shift about a half inch left and right...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZun-VPRWok

Here is another video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSnoS__9Wqc

[86125m]

From the video I cant really see the wobble but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

[Mr_Gixxer]

Yea the video didn't turn out like I had wanted it too. It's definitely there. I'll post a better video tomorrow for sure. It's really bad!

[sledcrazyinCT]

That sucks pretty easy to see the wobble on both sides, not sure how you can correct this problem. Hope you get some resolution with this problem

[cap]

Are you sure it's the rims?

[Mr_Gixxer]

Are you sure it's the rims?

Well the hubs and axles are perfectly straight when I do this same experiment with the wheels off. Plus I never had this issue before.

Here is a better video that I just took...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSnoS__9Wqc

[barnett468]

hello;

post photos of the rims at the studs but with all but 1 of the nuts off. the nut is just to hold it on.

post photos of the rings.

[barnett468]

i watched the video, if you are convinced that the rims themselves are bent then the only option i know of is to shim the back with grade 8 washers if the hub surface is perfectly flat. obviously this is not the best or safest way and you will likely never get them perfectly straight, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

the ebay guy should take them back if they are bent even if you painted them purple, because he can not sell bent rims.

unfortunately, ebay will likely do nothing to help you if the guy refuses, but you can ask... been there done that.

[DohcBikes]

They're bent or the centers are welded wrong.

Where did you get them? If it was me I'd simply send them an email saying that they are bent, don't mention the paint.

[Mr_Gixxer]

They're bent or the centers are welded wrong.

Where did you get them? If it was me I'd simply send them an email saying that they are bent, don't mention the paint.

I got them off ebay, before I realized I could have probably saved 20 bucks or so from another source. I've already opened a case with the seller and already mentioned the paint. I've gotten a response from him for which I replied with more info and he doesn't seem too concerned that they were painted. Didn't say anything about it anyway. I included the videos for him to see, we'll see where this goes I guess...

This really bites...:(

[DohcBikes]

Yes i realize you got em on ebay im wondering which seller.

Keep your fingers crossed. I just recently emailed atvgalaxy about a bad wheel (pinhole leak on the weld) and they told me they'd send me a new one with a return label for the bad one. I received a new wheel but no return label.

[Mr_Gixxer]

Keep your fingers crossed. I just recently emailed atvgalaxy about a bad wheel (pinhole leak on the weld) and they told me they'd send me a new one with a return label for the bad one. I received a new wheel but no return label.

I might have to eat the return shipping on these though, not to mention another 60 bucks or so to dismount and remount the new rubber too.

[DohcBikes]

I don't see how any of it is your fault. You bought new rims and expected them to be straight, so why would you mount them to check before you painted and put tires on? I'm considered picky by some standards and I wouldn't waste my time checking a new rim until its ready to roll.

I think you got boned. I'm also considered paranoid, but I think some dealers keep trying to sell junk until someone accepts it. I would say the chances of two rims being built wrong and both being sent to you is pretty slim. Id be concerned about that, because it would make me wonder if the seller was hoping I was a sucker.

When I first contacted atvgalaxy, he tried to get me to use silicon to seal my brand new wheel. I realize that some people would have done it in a heartbeat just to get it over with, but I didn't pay for a leaking wheel, and I'll be damned if I was gonna pay to ship it back. Here sits a brand new wheel that no one wants. I'll hafta pay someone to tig the pinhole if I ever wanna use it.

Anyway, all just my reaction, I wouldnt pay a dime out of pocket to send them back, but hope it works out in your favor.:)

[barnett468]

I might have to eat the return shipping on these though,seller better pay for return shipoing.



not to mention another 60 bucks or so to dismount and remount the new rubber too.Who the "bleep" is charging that much to change those? That's "bleepin" nuts!

Do they wash your "a_s" too while you're waitin for that price?

[Mr_Gixxer]

seller better pay for return shipoing.


Who the "bleep" is charging that much to change those? That's "bleepin" nuts!

Do they wash your "a_s" too while you're waitin for that price?

Yea, no crap. Without driving an hour round trip around here this is the only local honda shop I've got. They're shop rate is 60 dollars an hour. To mount all three tires to rims last time I was there it was 48 bucks. I'm just throwing that price out there, probably cheaper. Sucks because I shouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

I'm going to snap a couple requested pictures and take two more videos showing an original rim and tire on one side and a new one on the other for comparison. I'll also make a video of the axles and hubs spinning by themselves too.

More in a bit...

[barnett468]

more vids...xlnt.

[Mr_Gixxer]

hello;

post photos of the rims at the studs but with all but 1 of the nuts off. the nut is just to hold it on.

post photos of the rings.

Well, upon further inspection I noticed these rims that were advertised as fitting my ATC do NOT in fact fit at all. They may not be bent either but the design of these rims do not allow them to be mounted properly. For one, the hub rings don't even come close to fitting. I also noticed now that the center hole in the new rims are a LOT smaller than the stock rims. When these sit on the hub they contact the 4 raised portions on the hub itself not allowing them to seat all the way onto the lug studs and the hub. This leaves a gap between the contact surfaces of the hubs and the inside of the rims.

Here are some pictures and another video this time with a stock rim and tire...

New rim with one nut on as requested. Notice the size of the center hole...
193036

Old rim...
193037

The back side of the rim showing the gap created by wrong size center hole...
193038

Picture of the rings I've been talking about...
193039

Video comparing stock wheel and new wheel while spinning...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCSvzPkxLtc

The link to the advertisement for the rims clearly stating they fit a 1984 Honda 200es Big Red. They do NOT! I doubt they fit anything at all honestly...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201061077351?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649





Is anyone else running these rims? How in the heck did you get them to work for you because without different hubs other than stock I'm not seeing it.

[barnett468]

Hello;

Unfortunately the moderators do not allow me to view the photos the way you posted them because I'm "special". If you load them onto the site I can view them then.


Yeah Barn...you're "special" alright!
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[DohcBikes]

What's the bolt pattern? They look to be universal or dual lug pattern

Im guessing there's probably a hub swap that would work

[Mr_Gixxer]

Hello;

Unfortunately the moderators do not allow me to view the photos the way you posted them because I'm "special". If you load them onto the site I can view them then.


Yeah Barn...you're "special" alright!
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Does this help...
http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx33/mr_gixxer9063/Mobile%20Uploads/20140511_152859_zpsf5d695fd.jpg

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx33/mr_gixxer9063/Mobile%20Uploads/20140511_152947_zps1acd3ee3.jpg

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx33/mr_gixxer9063/Mobile%20Uploads/20140511_153010_zpsc0975c9b.jpg

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx33/mr_gixxer9063/Mobile%20Uploads/KGrHqQOKjE6TMfUNRJBOoeofcog60_57_zpsd8299bb1.jpg

[Mr_Gixxer]

What's the bolt pattern? They look to be universal or dual lug pattern

Im guessing there's probably a hub swap that would work

Thought about this as well. These rims have a dual lug pattern, 4/150 and 4/130. Not sure what my options would be for either of those patterns. Plus they'd have to be 24 spline hubs too correct?

[barnett468]

Thought about this as well. These rims have a dual lug pattern, 4/150 and 4/130. Not sure what my options would be for either of those patterns. Plus they'd have to be 24 spline hubs too correct?

hello yes the spline count must match.

xlnyt photos.

is the hub tiuching the radius on the rin slightly?

is the wheel mounting surface of the hub totally flat?

why would the smaller center prevent it from sitting flush on the hub?

the hub would have to be raised slightly in the center to cause this.

[Mr_Gixxer]

hello yes the spline count must match.

xlnyt photos.

is the hub tiuching the radius on the rin slightly?

is the wheel mounting surface of the hub totally flat?

why would the smaller center prevent it from sitting flush on the hub?

the hub would have to be raised slightly in the center to cause this.

The hubs are smaller than the flat surface of the rims WITHOUT the rings in place. The rings are about a quarter inch wider than the flat mounting surface of the rims.

The hubs are not completely flat. If you look closely to my third video you can see the four raised portions of the hubs and where they stick out in relation to the flat mounting surface of the hubs. The bigger center hole allows the stock rims to align outside of this area of the hubs whereas the smaller center hole of the new rims do not. If you look at the photos attached to the eBay add you can see even there they fit like I describe.

[DohcBikes]

200s hubs might be the ticket. 4x130 for sure, raised center is smaller diameter too.
I have an extra pair here. Center hole would need to be 3-3/8 minimum diameter for the wheel to sit flush

[Mr_Gixxer]

200s hubs might be the ticket. 4x130 for sure, raised center is smaller diameter too.
I have an extra pair here.

I'm assuming they will match the axle splines on my 200es? What's the bolt pattern on the 200s hubs?

This may be just what the doctor ordered. I see they are flat on the mounting surface as opposed to the four raised portions on mine.

Edit. ..
Posted too soon

[DohcBikes]

as stated they are 4x130, and yes there are 4 raised bumps in the center, hole needs to be at least 3-3/8" diameter to accommodate. Looks to me like its bigger than that so thats good. 24 spline.

[Mr_Gixxer]

as stated they are 4x130, and yes there are 4 raised bumps in the center, hole needs to be at least 3-3/8" diameter to accommodate. 24 spline.

This would be great. If the inability to mount these new rims flush to my stock 200es hubs is what's causing the wobble, this would allow me to keep the rims and tires the way they are and it'll just be an easy hub swap.

No shipping the rims back, no mounting tires for the THIRD time now and I'll still be able to keep the wider footprint I was going for originally.

[DohcBikes]

Only thing youll have to watch for on the 200s hubs is if the studs are smaller than the stud holes, you might wanna use conical lugs so the wheel stays stud centric, because on most aftermarket wheels, the hole is not hub centric to the raised portions of the 200s hub, its usually bigger.

Measure the center hole. if bigger than 3-3/8 then pm me if you decide you want these. BTW, looks like 3-3/8 nearly dead on for the wheel to be hub centric. any less and its too small, any more, conical lugs are best.

[barnett468]

hello;

ok got it here's some additional options however you might have bent the rims by installing them without a proper spacer. the seller is still at fault because they obviously do not fit.

get spacer rings made from a machine shop.

get the center of the wheels enlarged.

go to a big chain auto store and look at thin wheel spacers you might find some the right id oir od. get the other dimension cut if necessary and drill your 4 holes.

all of these things are easy and simple where i am at least.

you might even be able to simply cut down the od of your stock spacers

[DohcBikes]

Stud centric means the wheel is located and centerd on the hub by the studs. Hub centric means located and centered on the hub by the center raised portion of the hub. you may already know this or i can explain further if i need to.

biggest issue here at this juncture center hole size.

[Mr_Gixxer]

Just measured the new rims.

The center hole is 3-1/2" in diameter.

The flat mounting surface is 6-1/2" in diameter.

I'm positive in these measurements.

[DohcBikes]

and barnett has a great point, you may have bent the wheel if you tightened real tight, but i doubt it, generally these stamped hubs will flex first. Hub swap is a much better option than any type of spacer though.

[DohcBikes]

Just measured the new rims.

The center hole is 3-1/12" in diameter.

The flat mounting surface is 6-1/2" in diameter.

I'm positive in these measurements.
three and one twelfth..... lol think you mean 3 and a half..........

200s hubs are your friend right now

[barnett468]

yes, 3 1/2 rim id. would work. i have not seen a tape measure that measures in 12th's, where did you get it?

[Mr_Gixxer]

three and one twelfth..... lol think you mean 3 and a half..........

200s hubs are your friend right now

I'm positive there was a typo lol!!!

Yea looking like that's the answer. PM sent. Thanks again!!!

Here's to hoping the rims didn't get bent.

Anyone looking at rims like these for their 200es BEWARE!!!