Reloaders/hand loaders... Who's doing it?

[Thorpe]

Just hit the go button on a RCBS rock chucker supreme kit, and a vibrating case tumbler... $310 shipped after discounts and rebates. Gonna give reloading a try, first the basics, then work toward precision loads... Who in here is the powder master? What's you choice of loading equipment?

[plastikosmd]

yep, welcome to 'saving money' by spending more money!
Standard rounds, Dillon 550's

(arg, cant find pic, will post when I snap a pic of my bench, presses, trimmer on a rockchucker etc, it is the bench seen in part in photo below,)





50BMG, Dillon BFR
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/bmg/f6bcf393cd070eb1d97f447bd2e658b0_zps74719614.jpg

I do it because I can tune loads. I cant do this with factory stuff out of a 1960 Remington 40x 22-250, 5 shots at 100 yards
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/40x/16780f6396d4157dffe29a3d07a97285_zpsabc14a0d.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/40x/583ede301c796097466617272376c41e_zpseb328d49.png


It is also why I love blackpowder, reloading, just at the range.

[Poco Loco]

You will love your new hobby. Custom loads are the best. You chose a great entry level kit. That press can do it all. It just doesnt crank out the numbers the progressive or turret presses do. I have the same kit. It was the 1st press Ive owned. That is a lifetime quality press. I still use mine and Ive also included 2 more presses to my shop. Way to go!............ Long live the 2nd amendment!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

My brothers and I got into it about a year ago with a Hornady Lock and Load single stage press starter kit. It has been a most enjoyable hobby and being the tinkerer I am, I love what I have learned about my other obsession!

Keep it simple and by the book. Experimenting outside of published loading data is for the most experienced hand loaders only. Pay attention to detail.

It will seem overwhelming at first, but once you start going through the steps you are (or better be) reading in your loading manual, it becomes much less complicated and fun.

You WILL save money, especially if you have a taste for firearms chambered in pricey rounds.

Enjoy your new obsession and know that it is every bit as addictive as our trikes!! :beer

[atc007]

Buddy has a turret. Brother in law and Nephew also have a press. Name escapes me. I always left the rifles to them and I LOVED doing the shotguns :). All I was allowed to do was punch primers,tumble brass and weigh powder lol.. I'm selling myself a little short there. But As said above. You just started spending a LOT of time on bullets :) :) Very good hobby. Hope you have good ear protection. No joke. Long live ballsitic tips.

[Thorpe]

Going to Cabelas tomorrow to pickup a copy off Hornadys 9th edition handbook... Then I think I will hang the hammock and start reading, before my kit shows up... (The joys of being hurt, and at home during beautiful weather!) RCBS has a $50 rebate going for spending over $300, and then optics planet had 10% off today for Father's Day... So I got myself a present. My boys will appreciate the gift I bought myself when they get older...

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Here are some links to loading data published by powder manufacturers.. It is always good to have as much reference material as you can get your hands on....

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

I use Hodgdons and Accurate Arms powders and loading data most frequently. You may find some inconsistencies in loading data between say Hornady and Hodgdon. Remember when I said pay attention to detail?? C.O.L. can and often does vary from one set of tables to another. Also take note to the type of primers.

Always work up to max loads incrementally, checking for signs of over pressure as you work up. Do not just load up rounds to max pressure right off the bat.

I have gained a fair bit of knowledge and experience loading 38spl, 357 mag, 44 mag, 460 S&W Mag, 500 S&W Mag, 380 Auto, and 45 Auto. I have not yet reloaded rounds for my deer rifle yet, but I will be soon. Feel free to pick my brain if you have some questions about those calibers I listed..

[Poco Loco]

Ride Red 250 wrote................ I have not yet reloaded rounds for my deer rifle yet, but I will be soon. Feel free to pick my brain if you have some questions about those calibers I listed..[/QUOTE]..............I too use the online support and print the Load Data. Ive done quite a bit of rifle loads. 30-06 .270 .223 5.56. On my hunting loads or match loads I throw the powder into the scale just short of the desired weight and use the powder trickler to get it dead on and then I funnel it into the cartridge. This gives a perfect grain weight each and every time. My pistol loads and my AR plinking loads dont get the same attension. Its a labor of love and a good way to spend a rainy or cold day in the shop.

[Thorpe]

Doctor said today, I got 3 months minimum off work, before even a chance of going back! So I have plenty of reading time... My main focus at this point will likely be 38/357, 45acp and for the rifle, 223 and 7mm rem... All your guys words of encouragement is getting me really excited... Waiting on FedEx now!

[jays375]

A big tumbler is really nice to have.Another thing is I have two powder droppers set up.One for large and one for small ammo.Plus to not get distracted while loading ammo.Or leave charged cases unfinished.Take your time and rely on reloading manuals.I don't go by stuff found online.

[Thorpe]

Anyone have any recommendations as to source some brass? Better to buy new brass, or once fired...? 38 special doesn't seem too hard to find, but 357 is proving to be a bit of a challenge...

[hoosierlogger]

Star line brass is available at a decent price. It's not bad brass either.

I reload and cast my own lead bullets.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

357 is one of the more popular calibers folks reload. It has been a bit harder to come by...

But I find this website helpful: http://www.gunbot.net/reloading/

Nothing wrong with once-fired brass. Just inspect for cracks/damage before you run them up into the sizing die. I have bought some from sources like Gunbroker.com when I can't find new brass in stock. Only issue is you will mostly get mixed brands. Not really a big deal unless you are being extra particular and loading for extra precise performance. But in handguns, you still won't see a significant difference anyway.

I also like Star Line brass....

Tip: clean your brass before sizing, you will get less buildup of crud in your sizing die.

[ironchop]

It sounds stupid but a lot of Loaders I know go to shooting ranges and pickup fresh brass casings off the ground and out of the trash. They clean up good in a tumbler and most ranges don't care to let you do it. I never thought you could get that much brass but they do (of course he hits Knob Creek after the machine gun shoot hahaha)

I bought a book by Lee which was a super comprehensive guide complete with other manufacturer`s powder/ primer/ load specs in the book. I cant remember the name of the Book but I`ll go dig it out this and get back with you..

Found it:

Lee Precision Modern Reloading 2nd Edition

[Poco Loco]

You can load the .38 sp to a max load that feels like your shooting a 357. really close in feel but not quit the exact performance. I actually perfer the .38 for target plinking. I like to down load for the 50 yd range. It just seems more accurate and enjoyable to shoot.

[Thorpe]

Well, so far I am only 40 pages into my 9th edition hornady reloading book, and WOW, there are so many more details affecting accuracy then I ever knew... I am looking forward to trying to dial in my 7mm rem mag more now! Always felt it should be more accurate than it is! Also have a few irons in the fire for some 38 and 357 brass to load, but I have a lot more reading to do before that! Haven't even pulled my RCBS stuff out of the box yet! The one question I have come up with so far, why don't most handguns have bullet leade? I am sure there are exceptions, but revolvers don't, (I think) or my Sig 1911...

[plastikosmd]

Ok found pic
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/reloading/e8ae025222519d370707f464dc40f6cf_zps5a231de3.jpg

Custom loads is why I do it too

[Poco Loco]

Nice collection. Really nice set up. You have some $$$$ invested there. So thats where all the powder and primers went.

[plastikosmd]

Thx!
They went to a worthy cause!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Well, so far I am only 40 pages into my 9th edition hornady reloading book, and WOW, there are so many more details affecting accuracy then I ever knew... I am looking forward to trying to dial in my 7mm rem mag more now! Always felt it should be more accurate than it is! Also have a few irons in the fire for some 38 and 357 brass to load, but I have a lot more reading to do before that! Haven't even pulled my RCBS stuff out of the box yet! The one question I have come up with so far, why don't most handguns have bullet leade? I am sure there are exceptions, but revolvers don't, (I think) or my Sig 1911...

Are you referring to the space the bullet gets a "head start" so to speak before it enters the rifling??

[Thorpe]

^^ Exactly.... :wondering

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I don't think it is as big a deal with the much lower pressures handgun rounds produce relative to rifle rounds. (S&W 460 and 500 being the only exceptions here). But if you look into the forcing cone of a revolver, you will see that the rifling does not come all the way to the edge of the forcing cone. Which stands to reason since the forcing cone is just that, a funnel of sorts to guide the bullet into the barrel once it leaves the cylinder chamber.

As far as "lead in" and rifle chambers, you are only talking fractions of an inch. I haven't studied up on my rifle loading to that degree yet, but I believe I see alot of guys in forums talking reloading and throwing around .020-.030" for lead in. I could very well be mistaken on that, so don't take it as gospel. I understand the concept completely, I just have not fully studied up on it yet.

Auto pistols I am not as intimately familiar with, but by loading by the book as far as C.O.L. and crimp, I have not had any issues with my reloads for 45 Auto or 380 Auto. I hate to sound like a broken record here, but sticking to published loading data should keep you out of trouble. And by published data, I'm not referring to Joe Schmoe who cooks up his own loads based on whatever, I am referring to reputable published data put out by manufacturers of powder, bullets, etc....

Tip: When reloading auto pistol rounds, only crimp as much as necessary as most autos headspace via the case mouth (rimless shell). If you roll that case mouth down too far, the round may chamber improperly... (too deep)

Another tip: Any time you substitute a component, try and find trustworthy data for a starting point. Example: A 200gr Hornady XTP for a 44 mag may have different C.O.L. specs than a 200gr Barnes XPB. And C.O.L. can and does play a role in how much pressure is generated. Always seek out trustworthy data for the round you are loading and the components you are specifically using for that round. I have noticed this occurs more often than not.

When loading stout magnum revolver rounds, you want as tight a crimp as your case will allow before buckling. You will notice a common theme about the "ideal" magnum handgun powders, and that is that they like a good tight crimp for proper and consistent burn. A solid crimp here also prevents set-back or even bullets falling out of cases under the much heavier recoil of the magnum rounds due to the higher powered rounds themselves, and the fact that revolvers by their nature tend to allow more recoil energy to transfer through the piece. The cycling of the slide of an auto dampens recoil significantly compared to a wheelgun.

[Thorpe]

^^ That makes sense...

So, after much reading in my Horady #9, the only thing I don't have any idea about so far... How does one pick the proper primer? I haven't read anything to steer me in any direction other than confused :wondering

But on a good note, grabbed a set of Hornady 38/357/357 maximum dies today, a new caliper, and got some brass cooking in the tumbler, so I think I will spend a little time tomorrow removing primers and resizing 38 and 357 brass. Gotta take a drive down to the local reloading shop, and see if I can find some powder! H110 , Alliant 2400, accurate #9 seem to work in both 38/357 cases, so hopefully I can find a pound or two and start from there.

Got a little future project in mind for the 357 maximum brass I have coming too...

[plastikosmd]

Ball powder/spherical or some of the extruded stuff= mag primer

Beyond that, whatever works seems to be ok

I am a fan of unique in my 38/357 loads. Easy to use and hard to mess up, may burn dirty at lower pressure loads but safe

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I have yet to see any data whatsoever for 38spl using h110, 2400, or AA#9 powders! Those are all considered ideal for magnum handgun cartridges and while great for your 357 loads, I think you would be making a significant mistake using those for 38spl... I'm not going to say it is impossible, but I have not yet come across any loading data for those powders with 38spl.

As Plastikosmd said, Unique is a pretty versatile powder.. It's strong suits are 38spl, 45 auto and other "conventional" handgun cartridges. It can be used for magnums, but as you will see, charge levels with Unique will be significantly lighter than that of 110, 2400, AA#9 and other powders better suited for magnum rounds. That is because Unique is a faster burning powder... You can safely use it in your magnums, but you wont be able to safely achieve the same level of peak velocity with Unique as you will with the others.

Tip for safety: When using faster burning powders like Unique for 357 and other magnum rounds, be careful and check your charged cases for double charge. The faster burning powder charges being significantly lighter than the likes of h110, etc does leave enough space in the case for a double charge. A max charge of h110 in a 357 will mostly fill the case and a double charge would overflow it, while a double charge of Unique would not.

You will see this in black and white as you start looking at loading data more closely in your Hornady book (I have the same book) and other sources like the ones I linked you previously....

Another faster burning powder that is similar to Unique that I have had good results with is Allaint's Power Pistol.... There are several others in the same ballpark. I just haven't gotten around to trying them all yet! ;)

Primers: All published data I use at minimum specifies the type of primer used, IE: small pistol, small magnum pistol, large pistol, large magnum pistol... Many go as far as to list the brand as well. You can use magnum primers in place of standard with rounds like 38spl for example... Just work up and be careful when approaching max charge levels as primers do also contribute to peak pressures achieved when fired.. I would not recommend using a standard primer when a magnum primer is called for.

Cool pic of a near max load of H110 pushing a 240gr XTP Mag out of my 460 S&W

[Thorpe]

Ah trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro... Red, you bring up a great point, I see no recipes for #9 and h110 for 38 loads! Guess I need not waste time on those pieces of brass at the moment. Looks like I will be trying to melt my 357 down with 357 loads, since that's what I bought for powder today! Got about 125) 357 cases cleaned and deprimed tonight, so resize and reload tomorrow! And maybe a run to the hand loading store!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

It's ALWAYS fun going to the gun shop!! :beer


Do you already have powder, primers and bullets??? I know alot of folks like to play with lead but I'm a fan of jacketed bullets, particularly Hornady XTP's. That's pretty much all I use. Even with the jacketed hollow points, it's still cheaper per round than factory stuff.....

[Thorpe]

Correction, I picked up n110, not H... Still, only good for loading magnum rounds! Oh well. No primers or bullets yet... Gonna run to the other reloader store tomorrow, so maybe if I am lucky I can find some unique, universal or power pistol... Was eyeballing a 6" 629 today...

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Correction, I picked up n110, not H... Still, only good for loading magnum rounds! Oh well. No primers or bullets yet... Gonna run to the other reloader store tomorrow, so maybe if I am lucky I can find some unique, universal or power pistol... Was eyeballing a 6" 629 today...

Vihtavouri right?

629, 629 Classic, 629 MG??

I have a 629 Classic with 6.5" bbl.... I put a red fiber optic front sight on it over the winter. Was my big dog till I got the 460 ;)

[Thorpe]

Yes it's Vihtavouri... Just a standard 629, stainless... But the $859 tag kinda seemed steep to me

[plastikosmd]

Vihtavouri, one of my go to powders for bmg.
Interestingly, the particular bmg powder is more consistent at higher temps. It is not atypical to heat up the rounds before shooting, to approx 100 deg.
U sure get strange looks at the range pulling your ammo out of a toaster oven or insulated bag wearing gloves and shooting

[Thorpe]

Managed to score a lb of power pistol today, and a pound (actually 14 oz) of PB... $49 for the pair! Not bad I figured with the current powder drought. Got my first 100 rounds of 357 built, 10.1 grains of #9 and 158gr Berrys RN... Sized, de-primed and tumbled 550 .38 special cases yesterday, and sized 350 .223 shells... My arm is tired! Enjoying this hobby already, and haven't even fired a single round yet!

Tech question... What do you do when you read contrasting info in two publications, for the same round? Specifically, Hornady #9 says for 357, COL at 1.590", and Speer says 1.580"... I know it's minimal, and I am on the light end of the powder load, so I am not worried about excessive pressure... I split the difference, and set my COL to 1.585", just curious to know what you guys think is the "right way" to read between the lines? I think the berrys load info even said COL at 1.575"...?

[plastikosmd]

for a revolver, I have not really noted much of a difference in length for standard loads, accuracy wise. Length starts to matter for me when I run bigger custom slugs. at times the length is quite long, slug is flush with the end of the cylinder, not blocking rotation. the col, It starts to matter more when I am using a round that must chamber in autoloader/single/bolt gun etc. For those, I start with recommended oal and then start adjusting based on groups/load/projectile etc. This is where reloading becomes fun.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

So, if I understand you correctly, you have conflicting C.O.L. specs for the same projectile?

If so, I would play it exactly as you did and split the difference.

[Thorpe]

Red-- that 500 deal was too good to be true... But there is a NIB 460v that might find its way to my home! Then tonight I was over chatting with the neighbor, and he gives me a loading tray, 150 hollow point 45 cal bullets, 150 pieces of 357 mag brass, 100 pieces of 454 casull brass and a set of rcbs 454 dies! It must be a sign!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I absolutely love my 460v!

Tip: when pushing bullets to 460 velocity or even 454 Casull velocity make sure the bullets are made to withstand it. It is pretty common knowledge among reloading enthusiasts that pushing a standard jacketed hollow point made for "normal" handgun pressures and speeds to 454 and 460 levels the jacket can and often does separate from the core. This is mainly an issue because the 45 Colt is the parent case of both the 454 and 460. So any standard .451 bullet made for 45 Colt pressures may give you issues pushing them to 460 and 454 pressures. There are several manufacturers who make sturdy bullets for this. Hornady's XTP MAG, and Barnes' XPB are probably going to be the most common you will find. There are a few handgun cartridges that don't play by conventional handgun rules... ;)

If the 45 cal bullets he gave you are XTP MAG's or Barnes XPB's that is definitely a sign!

PS: 454 Casull rounds feel like a cream-puff out of a 460.

[jays375]

Definately want the XTP Mags out of the 460.Those bullets were purposely made for it.Don't use the lighter 45 caliber bullets in it.Won't work well on animals.Plus excessive speed can do damage.Lil Gun shouldn't be used in the 460 either.Another thing with magnum handguns is a really good crimp is required.I crimp as separate procedure.Not when seating the bullets.Mainly because the 460 is such a animal.I put a really heavy crimp on it.H 110 and IMR 4227 in mine.

[jays375]

Mosh.The Hornady XTP will work well for you.

[Thorpe]

Red- I just can't make up my mind... For about half the cost of the 460v, I can get into a Raging Bull 454... Too many big bores, too much time on my hands!

[plastikosmd]

Had a rb 454
It was a great shooter and very soft to shoot the heavy 454 loads. I load the 454 down now as I shoot it out of a freedom arms and that is a bit less comfortable with single action type grips.

[jays375]

If you buy the 460 it is like buying 3 guns at once.You have the 460,454,45 lc.

[Thorpe]

Yep... This is getting expensive... I have about 16 lbs of powder now (8 lbs of varget, and 5 of power pistol, few others too) over 500 pieces of 45 auto brass, 600+ 38 special, 500+ 357, 600+ of 9mm, and well over 1k of 223... And that's all on my "build" to do list... Not to mention my factory loaded hoard. Now I want an ultra sonic cleaner, and a case prep station! You guys were right, it's addicting, and an expensive way to "save" money! Ooh... Want a case trimmer too!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I must have missed your post about the Taurus while on vacation last week.

Yes, Taurus makes a more affordable handgun than Smith. I have only fired a couple, but never owned one so I cannot offer any advice either way on one and be fair about it. I did fire a Taurus Raging Bull 454 mack in the mid 90's when they first came out. I was only 17 years old or so and didn't know much about handguns then. It seemed accurate and did not malfunction in any way.

I can say that I seldom hear complaints from Taurus owners about theirs. They look VERY much like a S&W and I hear their QC has made alot of improvement over the years.

I would suggest you try and find some folks who have the experience with a Raging Bull that can only be had by owning one and see what they say. Myself, I am a Smith fan to my core. I see a similar wheelgun for a couple hundred less and I don't think about buying it...I say to myself just a bit more will bring that Smith next to it home and it goes from there.. ;)

But I CAN tell you because I own one that if you like powerful handguns, you will like a 460v. Just use double hearing protection when firing indoors and be ready for the percussion, you will feel it in your sinuses. This is due to the full compensator on the 460. My brother has a top ported 500 and the percussion to the shooter is really no more noticeable than a stout 44mag. BUT, the 500 is considerably harder on the hand and wrist than the 460. I feel this is mostly due to the fact that generally (with very few exceptions outside of handloading) the 500 fires a significantly heavier projectile downrange than the 460. But also, the full compensator does a bit more to soften rearward recoil energy along with muzzle flip where the top porting alone mainly tames muzzle flip. 500's are offered in both configs where all but one or two models of 460 are full comp only.

I would still recommend the 460 over the Raging Bull 454 any day, all day.

And I can assure you, once you do get all of your final tooling and gadgetry, and get to the point where you just need to keep basic supplies on hand, reloading DOES end up saving you money. I have not run the numbers yet for my 460, but I did some nice reloads for 44 mag and did some math. I loaded 200gr XTP's loaded to near max listed pressures. I have paid over $1 per round for very comparable factory rounds. I figured I loaded those rounds for about $0.38 each. Now I did not calculate brass because I already had it on hand. I wanted to see how much it cost to reload brass I had on hand compared to going to the store and buying the same thing off the shelf.....

[Thorpe]

I gave up on the "saving money" notion for the time being, and I am ok with it! New tires on the truck halted the big bore for a little while. But I agree with you Red, I am a Smith guy. Not even thinking about the Tortoise anymore, it was an impulse thought at best! And yep... A ultrasonic cleaner followed me home today... Think I might disassemble the atc70 carb tomorrow and throw it in the bath, seeming how it does such an incredible job on cases!

[Thorpe]

Any of you guys buy lead from xtremebullets.com?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I haven't stepped into the wide world of lead boolits as of yet.....

[Thorpe]

They have a lot of copper coated too... I have come to discover that buying lead from my local Cabelas, is not for the frugal, to say the least!

[badandy]

I'm in... it's painfully tedious, and I have yet to see any cost savings. But you can load what you want, the way you want... so there are benefits in that sense... only been a year and a half or so... I'm still very much learning.

[Thorpe]

What about primer sealer... Yeah, no...? Lots of factory ammo isn't sealed....?

Processed 500 pieces of 45acp brass today, separated large and small pockets, all ultra sonic cleaned, and drying for tomorrow... Certainly haven't saved any money yet, but sure do enjoy the hobby! Hand loading gets me excited about obsolete and wildcat cartridges!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I have not used primer sealant as of yet.

I cannot speak to it's benefit or lack thereof based on experience. But I have read elsewhere it is something some folks do if they intend to store ammo for extended periods of time, or the ammo is exposed to extreme conditions in the field. If I were to go grizzly hunting in Alaska I would probably use sealant on my primers! LOL!

[Mosh]

Thorpe...I got the message from the Mrs. You should be able to contact me now.