250SX Timing Chain

[GSUwhiskers]

As I posted before my 250SX has a timing chain about to sling off. I have a guy who can "patch" it buti was wondering how hard it really is. I can get the parts on eBay for cheap although used. Or I could shell out the cash for new parts but the labor would be on me. Has anyone attempted this? Give me your honest opinion.

[atc007]

There is ONE way to fix a timing chain. By replacing it with a brand new one. You will also want to inspect the plastic guides also. Your bike will run quiet and amazing when done.

[Flyingw]

Totally agree with 007. Don't skimp on the timing chain. Its too important.

[GSUwhiskers]

Ten four well then that's what I will do. She will be down for some time while I work on it but hopefully she will have a renewed life afterwards. Now, can anyone point me in the direction of a how to thread?

[tri again]

Ten four well then that's what I will do. She will be down for some time while I work on it but hopefully she will have a renewed life afterwards. Now, can anyone point me in the direction of a how to thread?

Someone recently posted a full set of pictures. procedure and tools
for sx timing chain replacement.
I've got to go to work or I'd look for it for you.
Maybe 2-3 weeks ago?
and yes, they sound so sweet when they run right.
I personally enjoy hearing a few sitting and idling.
Reminds me of 5 part eagles harmony.

Wish, also, that someone would take a timing chain tensioner measurement or service limit specs, altho chain noise is usually unmistakable.
You'll be so glad you did it right and it will last another 25 years or more.

[GSUwhiskers]

I found the thread and have been looking into it. I'm pretty sure I can do it myself. You put the chain on, then is there any kind of timing synchronizing procedure? Or does the chain just take care of itself? How long do you think it would take for a novice to do this job?

[atc007]

Yes, you will have to time your cam to crank. Cam timing... Will also have to adjust your valves when done. You can do it ,but find a manual on here ,and go through it first to understand. If you get this wrong,you will bend a valve,and if out of time bad enough. Scurf up your piston.

[dougspcs]

I think site op should consider a new forum section..call it the 'techs corner' or something like that.

All these great info threads that some members are taking time to post can have a permanent reference location.

I nominate Jim's(FlyingW) carb and rear diff threads for starts!!

[Chopsaw]

I bought a non-running 85 es to get some parts off of it . I went ahead and tore the engine down , and here you see the results of a jumped timing chain .
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p573/rweiss1022/0817130811_zps4c1b2369.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/rweiss1022/media/0817130811_zps4c1b2369.jpg.html)

[GSUwhiskers]

Wow, so I'm probably just going to keep it parked until I can get the parts and fix her up. I really do appreciate all the help ya'll have given me. I picked up a manual off someone's previous post the other day and only have had time to scan the pages. I saw a bit about lining up an index mark and a "F" or "T" (I can't remember which) in the cam timing section of the manual. I'm assuming that is the cam timing? I have no clue how to adjust the valves, I've seen it done before, so is that covered in the manual? I need to find a sort of step by step of that part.
Is that chain hard to get on once you get to it? I've never replaced a chain on anything, but it seems to me a metal one-piece chain would be quite hard to fit on a fixed position gear(s). Sorry for asking so many questions guys, like I've said before I don't have a covered place to work right now so I have to wait before I can even start this project, and I REALLY want to know every detail before I start.

I also agree with the addition of a tech thread, and please allow new guys to post in it!!!!

[Chopsaw]

Top dead center , valve timing , is basic in four stroke engines . If you are not sure , get some help . The valves open and close at the right time on intake , combustion and exhaust , that times with the stroke of the piston .

[tri again]

The manual is gonna tell you.
see if you can click on:
service manual
I'd say TDC on the crank and some (in)visible mark of notch on the cam
wants to be lined up.
Lest we not forget, on a 4 stroke, the crank goes around twice as many times as the cam so being 180 degrees out is not uncommon.
You're in for a treat.
Gonna sound like a sewing machine when yer done.

[GSUwhiskers]

Alright boys, I've continued my research on this chain. I read through the post that was referenced before and there are a couple questions I have. One is he took off the head, but I don't see why that is necessary? Secondly even after looking through the manual extensively, there is not a section about replacing the chain itself. I understand how to get to the chain, BUT I would like clarification on how you put the chain back on? I know the flywheel has to be lined up with the with the alternator cover, and the cam sprocket has two index marks that need to be level with the surface of the head. Okay so, this is a two part question really and I am asking for a baby-step micro breakdown kind of answer. First off do you align the flywheel, then put the chain on the crankshaft, then thread the chain into the head and put the chain on the sprocket, then put the sprocket and camshaft back in the head? OR does it matter what order you start in?
NOW the SECOND question, how do you align these two marks (the flywheel and the cam sprocket) perfectly when you're working with a one piece chain?

[Flyingw]

Really pretty easy.

Align the crank so the mark aligns with the mark on the small inspection hole in the stator cover
CAM lobes DOWN
Chain is installed on the CAM sprocket and the two hash marks on the back of the CAM sprocket parallel the head.

That's the tree things you need to ensure are true. This is done with the CAM chain tensioner removed. If you look at the CAM chain sprocket, you will see the center hole is not round. Its notched so you can drop the sprocket down leaving enough slack in the chain to roll the chain over the teeth one tooth at a time to get the sprocket in its correct position to be placed back on the cam. Basically you will align the crank, bring the chain up in to the head, place the chain over the CAM sprocket with the notches in the sprocket up and down, insert the CAM through the sprocket and lay it in the journals, place the rubber cap on the end of the CAM, roll the CAM sprocket around so the marks are in the right position, and place the CAM sprocket back on the CAM. This part can be a little frustrating with a new chain. Be sure your mark in the stator cover remains in the right position. After you get the CAM sprocket back on, the sprocket bolt holes should line up but always check your alignment on all three areas before tightening up the sprocket bolts.

[Flyingw]

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS torque the bolts on the rocker cover. The book gives you the torque values. Over tightening the rocker cover can put too much pressure on the CAM journals and pinch the CAM. Apply a good bead of sealant around the mating surface of the head and feather the sealant out with a small brush. Let the squeeze out cure before cleaning it off otherwise that stuff will be everywhere.

[GSUwhiskers]

YOU ARE THE MAN! Thank you very much! I'm at a disadvantage because I can't work on it right now so I'm having to look up everything about these parts before even being able to look at the physical parts. I plan on taking many pictures and when I'm done posting a master thread for all newbs such as myself with pictures and an extensive walkthrough. SO do I put the sealant on the bottom of the head before I put it back on the engine? OR just one the top of the head where the rocker cover sits on it?

[GSUwhiskers]

ONE MORE question, when you said I need to roll the CAM sprocket to align the two marks on the sprocket with the head... When I roll the sprocket, won't it move the mark on the flywheel? or no?

[Flyingw]

The bottom of the head (cylinder/head) surface gets a metal gasket. The top of the head (head/rocker cover) gets sealant. That's because of the close tolerance of the CAM journals. When the motor was manufactured, the head and rocker cover were mated together then the CAM journals were machined so the head and rocker cover are a mated pair.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, great. So far that covers what I think I need to know haha. I may get into that job and then be right back here asking more questions. Thank you so much for your detailed answers.

[Flyingw]

No, at that point the CAM is poked through the sprocket but the sprocket is sitting loose on the CAM so there is slack in the chain. I lift the chain and roll it around the sprocket until the sprocket rotates to the right place then the sprocket is set on to the CAM and bolted up. Just remember to frequently check the mark in the stator cover to ensure it still in the right place. It helps to leave the spark plug out so the engine isn't being moved by the compression. Later tonight I'll pull a head CAM, chain, and sprocket and give you some illustrations on how all this goes together but that will be later tonight.

[GSUwhiskers]

THAT would be PERFECT!!! You say it so nonchalant, haha, I'm looking all over the place and studying everything just to have an idea of how to go about taking this engine apart.

[GSUwhiskers]

Does the carb have to come off to get the head off? AND does the head have to come off to install the second chain guide?

[GSUwhiskers]

Also, is the CAM shaft bolted down?

[Flyingw]

If you are just replacing the CAM chain, you don't need to remove the head, just the rocker cover. The cam does not get bolted in. Its retained by the journals.

[Flyingw]

Unfortunately I don't have a CAM chain so imagine the pics with the chain on the sprocket. What I'm showing here is the CAM sprocket and how the center is cut out. In a nutshell, you are going to hang the chain over the sprocket with the tallest of the sprocket notches up and down.

[Flyingw]

Now you are going to install the CAM through the sprocket with the CAM turned 90deg so the flanges are horizontal.

[Flyingw]

Now lift the front of the CAM and install the plastic cap.

[Flyingw]

Now rotate the CAM so the lobes are down. The flanges on the CAM are up and down.

[Flyingw]

With the CAM lobes down, double check the mark in the stator cover and ensure its right on the mark. Now you can let you sprocket down and lift the chain and roll it one link at a time until you get the marks on the back of the sprocket to align horizontally with the top of the head.

[Flyingw]

If everything is aligned right, the mark in the stator inspection hole will be on the mark, the CAM lobes are down, and the marks on the back of the sprocket align with the head. Now the hard part. set the sprocket on to the flange of the CAM. The top bolt hole will align perfectly to accept the bolt. You may have to take a screwdriver on the front side of the sprocket and pry up on the sprocket with the chain on it to get it to slide on the CAM. The sprocket should sit flush against the flanges of the CAM. Once the sprocket slides on to the CAM, install the top bolt and snug. Now you can rotate the engine to get the bottom bolt in. Tighten both bolts. Ensure your sealing surfaces on the top of the head and bottom of the rocker cover are clean and free of old sealant. Apply a generous bead of sealant all the way around the top of the head and set the rocker cover on the head and install the bolts and tighten in a criss cross pattern. Chapter 6 of the Honda manual outlines what I just talked about. Install the tensioner. You may need a new base gasket. You have to pull the screw on the end of the tensioner and with a screwdriver turn the tensioner CW to retract the tensioner. You have to hold it that way while you install it because one you let it go, it will extend on its own. The last thing you want to do it to adjust the valves. The motor will already be setup for this so just put the mark in the window of the hole in the stator cover as you did when you installed the CAM. Adjust the valves per the manual.

[GSUwhiskers]

I can't thank you enough Fyingw, those pictures were better than anything I can find on the internet or in the manual even. Now I'm just making sure I know exactly how to take the head off, and split the cases without messing anything up. Hopefully I'll be able to get the parts and work on it by the end of August. If I have any issues with it I will definitely be asking you about it though haha.

[Flyingw]

Split the cases? Are you just replacing the CAM chain?

[GSUwhiskers]

Yeah, the cam chain, and both guides for it while I'm in there. I have to take off the right crankcase cover to access the bottom part of the chain and one chain GUIDE according to the manual.

[Flyingw]

Its been my experience that unless the chain has stretched to the point where it damages the guides, the guides are usually ok. The back guide is retained by the head. The forward guide floats at the top meaning the chain tensioner pushes against the guide to keep the chain tight. The pivot is at the bottom of the guide under the clutch cover. If it were me, I would not pull the head if I didn't have to just for the sake of changing the guides. Pulling the head opens the door for snapped off exh studs. If your intention is to just replace the chain, pull the clutch cover and rocker cover only. I have built many SX motors and have only replaced the guides once and they were used replacements at that. Under the clutch cover, all you'll need to remove is both clutches and oil pump to get to the chain to remove and replace it. It would also be a good idea since the clutch cover is off to put a fresh set of clutch plates in it. You'll need a 27mm socket and an impact to get the clutch hub nuts off. The centrifugal clutch hub nut is reverse thread.

[Flyingw]

On that one pic, you'll see the shaft end bearing on the centrifugal clutch. half the time the bearing comes out of the clutch cover and stays on the shaft. The bearing ID tolerance is tight to use some gentle persuasion to get the bearing off the shaft. The hub nut is under it. Once the clutches and oil pump is off, replacing the chain is easy. I use a piece of wire to pull the new chain up and hold it in place while I reassemble the clutches and oil pump.

[Flyingw]

Now if you insist on removing the head, there are 3 each 6mm allen socket head bolts that love to round out. I can't tell you how many of those I had to cut the heads off so I could remove the head. A hand impact and hammer is needed to loosen them up before you put a ratchet on them to break them loose to remove them but that doesn't always work. In any case, if you're going to go through all this to remove the head, you might as well remove the valves, LAP the valves and replace the valve stem seals. Like I said though, if you don't need to remove the head, leave it alone.

[GSUwhiskers]

Wow, I think you just talked me out of replacing the guides and touching the head haha. If you feel like I won't need the guides then I won't mess with them. Which makes me feel more confident about the whole process. Especially after your great explanation. Do you ever have problems removing the valve cover or crankcase cover?

[Flyingw]

Not usually. Both are doweled so you have to break the seal loose with a soft mallet but once the seal is broke loose, they usually come right off. On the clutch cover, a couple of things. Be sure to remove the dipstick before trying to remove the cover. It drops in behind the oil slinger plate that sits over the oil pump. When the clutch cover starts to come loose, I usually hold the cover fore and aft and with my left hand, pull on the cover and push on the kicker shaft to make sure it stays in place. The last thing you want to mess with is trying to get the kicker shaft back in. Its a real pain. Also, on the bottom of the clutch cover is the shaft the reverse lever mounts too. That shaft likes to come out with the cover. Not a big deal but if I can keep it in the center case, one less thing to fuss with during assembly. Thee is an arm on the end of the shift shaft. Remember that arm always points straight up. Get yourself a seal kit. Might as well replace the seals on the clutch cover since its off. There is a strainer screen on the bottom of the center case. Pull that screen out and clean it. Be looking for debris. Usually they are clean.

[GSUwhiskers]

Now when you say they need to be broken with a mallet, you mean just tapping around the edges? Because all I saw was that you had to remove the bolts and pull it right off. Also, can you explain the clutch plates to me? Is that the plate on the front of the clutch that you have to remove to take off the clutch? I've ordered the chain and sealing washers for the oil line now. Gonna order the crankcase gasket which I think is the seal you were referring to next week along with possibly those clutch plates depending on how much they are.

[Flyingw]

You are correct. The seal I refer to is the seal that's made by either the gasket or the sealant on the rocker cover. The clutch plates are the fiber plates that are in the back clutch assembly. In the pic in post #34, the back clutch basket has four 6mm bolts that hold the clutch basket together. Remove the four bolts and disassemble the clutch basket. There are five fiber plates (stationary) and 5 pressure plates (rotating). The fiber plates are a wear item. Easy to replace but they MUST be soaked in oil before you install them back in to the clutch basket. I usually get a paper plate and pour some oil in the plate then one at a time, place the fiber plate in the oil on both sides. Wipe off the excess and put it in to the basket. The fiber and pressure plates get put in alternating order meaning the first plate to go in is a fiber plate, then a pressure plate, fiber plate, pressure plate etc. DO NOT over tighten the bolts that hold the clutch basket together. The posts the bolts thread in to are cast aluminum and you will either strip out the hole or break the post off completely. Just a little more than tight is all that's needed.

Here's a whole kit fiber plates, pressure plates, and new springs
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Outlaw-Racing-New-Clutch-Kit-ATC-250-SX-350-X-85-87-/400723081787?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d4cf4fa3b&vxp=mtr

Here's just the fiber plates. Usually the pressure plates are ok but its good to replace them once in a while. Same goes for the springs
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EBC-CK-Clutch-Plates-Fits-Honda-ATC-250-SX-1985-1987-/331234894063?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d1f2360ef&vxp=mtr

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, that sounds simple enough. How do I know if the clutch is worn out? Is the gasket for the crankcase cover on eBay also?

[Flyingw]

You can put a set of calipers on the plates and measure the thickness but if you don't know if the clutch has ever been replaced then its a good idea to change it while the cover is off and be done with it. The gasket is more than likely available on Ebay. The ES/SX and 350X use the same gasket.

[Flyingw]

yep, several on Ebay

http://www.ebay.com/sch/6000/i.html?_nkw=atc+250sx+cl%3Butch+cover+gasket&_rdc=2

[Flyingw]

You can get one from your local Honda dealer

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2461541&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1985&fveh=131334

Honda sells the same gasket for all three years. Same part number

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay I think Im gonna order the gasket today. I noticed two cables on the bottom side of the cover that have to come off, andi generally hate messing with cables because they never like to cooperate. Are those just a simple unbolt and bolt right back up kind of thing? Is there an oil line in the way of the valve cover? The manual doesn't show a great picture of it.

[Flyingw]

The cable on the clutch cover is the reverse cable. The lever is held in place with a 6mm bolt with a 10mm head. Remove the bolt and stick a screwdriver behind the lever and pry it off. They can be stubborn. Next to the reverse cable is the wire harness for the neutral and reverse lights. Remove the protective cover and unplug the harness. The rest of the stuff on the rear of the clutch cover is the brackets for the reverse cable and wire harness.

The oil tube on the rocker cover travels down to the clutch cover. There is a support bracket on the back side of the head. You can just unbolt the ends of the tube and leave it pinned to the cylinder. I'll get some pics and post them up later.

[GSUwhiskers]

Sweet, I think I understand that. Just picked up the chain and oil washers and ordered the gasket!

I know this is off topic, but the rubber boot that covers the driveshaft, have you ever replaced it? I was looking through the manual and again can't find a good explanation of how to do it.

[elvetost]

May I suggest you get a friend who has done this before to give you a hand too?
Just a bit of a fail safe kinda deal. Not saying to ask someone to do the job for you, just have someone around while YOU do it and hence YOU learn. And you will learn a lot!

Anyways, great help there from the guys and especially Flyingw, good stuff.

Good luck with it man! :)

[GSUwhiskers]

I totally agree, but the only friends of mine that have done this before can't be there when I do it. Different locations and busy schedules, I'm going to attempt it over the 4th weekend, I've got a shed I can work in and probably leave it open in case of an unexpected mishap. Flyingw has gone above and beyond on this thread though, and I really hope I can make him proud and do it right the first time! haha.

[Flyingw]

The propeller shaft boot can be replaced without disassembling anything. Cut the old boot off. The propeller shaft is spring loaded. Push the propeller shaft off the engine shaft. This can be a little difficult but the propeller shaft should retract just enough to get it off the engine shaft. Once off, work the new boot on to the swingarm. Push the propeller shaft back and work it back on to the engine shaft and secure the boot. You may need a helper to assist you in getting the propeller shaft back on to the engine shaft.

The alternate method is to pull the swingarm pivot bolt on the right side and pull the swingarm back away from the frame but you may have difficulties getting the pivot bolt locking ring loose as well as backing the pivot bolt out.

[GSUwhiskers]

So you just push and unload the spring, and shes loose? I don't know what you do for a living, but you must have been a Honda mechanic ha, when I asked the mechanics at my local Honda dealership they didn't even mention that. They said either drop the swingarm or dismount the engine and slide it forward... I didn't want to do either one..

[Flyingw]

That's the idea. Some guys have reported difficulties doing it that way. Loosening the engine entails talking the exh system loose as well as the intake. If you can get the propeller shaft off the engine, you can work the boot past the eng shaft and propeller shaft.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, I'm going to look at a schematic later on and try it after I work on the chain. I've also been studying how to adjust the valves on a four stroke, seems pretty easy, you just use a feeler guage to measure the clearance under the valve right? and then if it is off, use the small screw under the valve cover to adjust the clearance? It sounds easy, but I'm sure working in that small space is less than ideal.

[Flyingw]

For adjusting the valves, you need a 10mm wrench, .003" feeler gage with the tip bent to a 45deg, and a valve tappet wrench. The valve tappet adjuster is 3 or 4mm square. You can do the adjustment without the tappet wrench with just a 10mm wrench and a pair of hemostats or small needle nose pliers. The thing to remember is when using the feeler gage not to have any tool pressure on the tappet. Also, when you tighten up the lock nut, it will change the adjustment to you may have to run it loose and tighten the nut to tighten up the gap. If the feeler gage slides in snug after the nut is tight, its good. The exh valve is easy enough to adjust but the intake can be a little tough with the limited space. The engine should have an ever so slight tapping sound. Much like a sewing machine. If the adjustment is too loose, you'll hear it. It takes a little practice so don't get frustrated.

Remember the valve adjustment has to be done on a cool motor.

[Flyingw]

This is what the valve tappet adjusters look like.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2218-6-PC-HONDA-YAMAHA-SUZUKI-MOTORCYCLES-VALVE-TAPPET-ADJUSTING-TOOL-SET-/141291302480?hash=item20e59e2e50&item=141291302480&pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, now about that drive shaft, when I get it to retract will the arm itself move down or will I have to hold it while a friend puts the boot on?

[Flyingw]

Don't worry about it. Just it fall to the side.

[GSUwhiskers]

Ten four, well I'll be posting soon about my progress. Hopefully it goes off without a hitch!!!

[GSUwhiskers]

Hey Flyingw, I got three silver washers, one copper and an o-ring for the oil lines. Is that about right? I feel like I need more, but I'm not sure. I was thinking I need 8 oil "sealing" washers but I wasn't sure.

[Flyingw]

Is this the stuff you bought or stuff that came off the motor? The oil tube that goes between the clutch cover and rocker cover gets 3 copper sealing washers. There should have been a little bracket on the outside of the oil tube at the rocker cover. That bracket serves as the 4th sealing washer. If that bracket isn't there then a 4th copper sealing washer will be needed. See the pic. It looks like that one.

Where did the oring come from? Where did the silver washers come from?

[GSUwhiskers]

All of those were ordered from Honda when I told them I needed the sealing washers for the oil line. I only have one copper one which really concerns me, the silver ones I assumed will act as sealing washers? But the silver ones are bigger than the copper one, I haven't gotten into the engine but I was just thinking about what I got from Honda. The o-ring was supposed to be part of the oil line? I'm not sure. Is there somewhere else I can get those washers?

[GSUwhiskers]

All of those were ordered from Honda when I told them I needed the sealing washers for the oil line. I only have one copper one which really concerns me, the silver ones I assumed will act as sealing washers? But the silver ones are bigger than the copper one, I haven't gotten into the engine but I was just thinking about what I got from Honda. The o-ring was supposed to be part of the oil line? I'm not sure. Is there somewhere else I can get those washers?

[Flyingw]

I'd be willing to bet they ordered the sealing washers for hydraulic brake banjo bolts which the SX doesn't have. The oring I cant say what they were intending with that. When you take the rocker cover off, there is one copper sealing washer. The rocker cover has a little arrow cast in to the rocker cover as to where it goes. What are the part numbers of the silver washers and oring you have? Post the part numbers up here and I'll see if I can figure out what they are. The banjo bolt the oil tube uses is 7mm so the sealing washers are unique in size so the right ones are needed.

Oil Tube Sealing Washers
90410-KR0-000

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2461529&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1985&fveh=131334

The fiche shows 3 each #17 but the qty shows 4 each. The 4th is for the one bolt on the rocker cover.

[GSUwhiskers]

I'm sorry it has taken so long to reply, but here they are,
copper washer - 90441-909-000
3 silver washers - 90410-KR0-000
O-ring - 91308-MC7-000

[Flyingw]

WOW!!! That parts fiche is ALL screwed up.

If you look on the fiche in the cylinder head assembly, item 20 for the copper washer, the illustration shows the bracket, not a sealing washer....WRONG!!!!! The sealing washer item 17 should be a 7mm sealing washer but what you got was a 10mm silver sealing washer.....WRONG!!!!! and the oring, goes on the right crank case cover on the clutch adjuster screw item 37. That has nothing to do with the oil tubes.
Item 17 & 20
http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2461529&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1985&fveh=131334

Item 37
http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2461541&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1985&fveh=131334

Now, with all that said, I can't say whether the silver sealing washers they sent are 10mm on the OD and 7mm on the ID. If that's true then the silver sealing washers will be ok but the copper washer they sent should have been roughly the same size. The heads on the 7mm banjo bolts are flared 10mm heads. At this point, I would suggest reusing your old sealing washers. Get some 600 grit wet/dry and lay it on a flat surface. wet the paper and lay the sealing washer on the paper and with light pressure, sand both sides of the sealing washer until its shiny. Do the same for the sealing sides of the oil tube on both ends. I've reused lots of sealing washers and as long as they are flat, they'll seal. I have extra used ones if you need them along with that #20 bracket. The sealing washers come in the full gasket kit.

[Flyingw]

As long as you have the oring, you might as well take the auto clutch assembly apart in the clutch cover and replace that oring. They usually don't go bad but since you got it, might as well. There is one other oring to account for when you have the clutch cover off. It goes on the oil tube that's inside of the right side on the oil tube nipple that mates with the clutch cover. Just be sure its there when you put the cover back on.

[GSUwhiskers]

Dang, of course the DEALERSHIP would get it wrong... the silver washers are NOT the same size, but bigger by a noticeable amount.
SO, I guess I'm gonna make another trip up there tomorrow and see if they can't order like 8 of those copper washers, if I'm right then they should all be the same right? So if you just order 8 of the same ones I already have, that is 8 of the COPPER washers, which honestly look like 7mm but measure to just over 6 mm I think. The silver washers I just measured are over 11mm ID... so those won't work..

[GSUwhiskers]

The part number you gave me for the oil sealing washers, and the part number I have are the same, but you're saying they should be small copper washers and not the bigger steel ones? Do you have pictures of the washers?

[Flyingw]

Take one of the banjo bolts off and take it and one of the sealing washers with you. Also take that bracket with you so they can see what I'm talking about in the fiche. They just order what's on the fiche assuming its right. The banjo bolts 7x23mm so the sealing washers have to be 7mm ID.

[Flyingw]

Yep, got em right here.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, so it has to be 7mm ID. And these aren't something you can find in Lowe's?

[GSUwhiskers]

What about the sealing washers inside the crankcase cover on the oil line? There are some there also correct?

[Flyingw]

Don't forget you also need #19 for that one bolt on the rocker cover. The fiche shows a qty of 3 each. I'm confused by that because I have ever only removed one and the rocker cover has that arrow pointing to the one bolt that gets it.

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2461529&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1985&fveh=131334

[Flyingw]

No, there aren't any on that oil tube. Just that one oring to seal between the oil tube and clutch cover.

[Flyingw]

And no, I doubt you'd find them at Lowes.

[Flyingw]

Like I said, a little sand paper and reuse the old ones.

[Flyingw]

Check this out. I pulled up the fiche for the 85 ES. Items 17 & 20. Totally different!!!!!! but it looks right. The top ends on the ES and SX are exactly the same except for the paint.

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2461214&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1985&fveh=131327

[Flyingw]

85 SX
Item 17
WASHER (10MM)
90410-KR0-000

Item 20
WASHER (6MM)
90441-909-000

85 ES
Item 17
WASHER (7MM)
90441-MC0-000

Item 20
WASHER, LOCK (7MM)
90443-HA0-771

[Flyingw]

Sealing washer for the rocker cover and it shows a qty of 1 each.

WASHER (6MM)
90441-909-000

At this point, I would suggest the Honda guys order the part numbers for the 85 ES. They look right. The SX diagrams are ALL SCREWED UP.

[Flyingw]

So this is what you need to order

1985 ATC 250ES
Item 17, Cylinder Head Illustration
WASHER (7MM)
90441-MC0-000
Each 3

Item 20, Cylinder Head Illustration
WASHER, LOCK (7MM)
90443-HA0-771
Each 1

Item 19, Cylinder Head Illustration
WASHER (6MM)
90441-909-000
Each 1

[Flyingw]

Disregard on the item 19 washer. You already have that one.

[GSUwhiskers]

Haha YES! Okay I will go tomorrow and tell them to pull up the 85 ES schematic. Thank you so much. Since I've got my buddy here this week I think we are gonna try the boot replacement tomorrow. Nothing to that right? Just push until it comes off and then put the new one on and push to put it back on.

[Flyingw]

Sounds easy enough!!!!!! but that's the job. After you cut the old boot off, spray the snot out of the propeller shaft and all in the cavity with WD40. Soak it down.

[GSUwhiskers]

Ten four! I will keep you posted! I'm gonna get the washers sorted out tomorrow. Now I've decided to push off the chain until the weekend after next because the family is visiting and I hate to lose the time with them, but the good news is that gives me longer to get parts. So my question is shouldi go ahead and replace ethe tensioner? If so does it have to come from Honda? Would the clutch kit be a better investment? Should I get used guidesjust for kicks?

[Flyingw]

no need to replace the tensioner but you will need a fresh base gasket so order one of those when you go see the Honda dudes. If you've never done anything to the clutch then in my opinion, yes, go ahead and do the full kit. That way you know what and when your clutch was refreshed. As for the guides, your call but I have only seen a couple of bad guides and they came from some pretty neglected motors.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, well I've only owned this beaut for a few months so I can't attest to how neglected it was but what causes those guides to wear? When you say base gasket you mean the one on the tensioner? I'll go ahead and get the kit and do the clutch. Like you said might as well.

[Flyingw]

The guides get damages by running a badly stretched chain and they can also be damaged from extreme failure to change the oil. The base gasket is the tensioner base gasket. Those are pretty much one time good deals. The screw on the end of the tensioner also has a fiber seal but those are no longer available so you may have to butter the screw flange with a little silicone for a good seal on the screw head.

GSKT, TENSIONER HOLE
12194-HC5-740
Each 1

Its on the chain and tensioner diagram. ES/SX same gasket.

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2461535&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1985&fveh=131334

[GSUwhiskers]

Oh that's scary ha because the mechanics told me the chain sounds horrible. Is one more prone to wear than the other? Just trying to make sure I have everything covered in case something is wrong.

[Flyingw]

Well if the guides are toast, you'll know it. As long as the surface the chain slides on is smooth, you'll be ok. The edges do tend to get a little rough but don't worry so much about the edges. I have guides if you need them plus if you're guides are toast, you will be pulling the head and everything changes from there so lets assume for now your guides are good and go from there.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay sounds good to me, hopefully you're right but if not then I'll be talking to you about those guides. I got some RTV gasket maker from Walmart will that work for the rocker cover?

[Flyingw]

ya just about any silicone based sealant will work.

[GSUwhiskers]

Good deal. Have you ever replaced the shock boots on the front forks? Mine look.... Terrible haha. But I don't know how to go about that project either.

[GSUwhiskers]

Well I had a little disagreement with Honda today, who swore their 30 year old parts diagrams COULD NOT be wrong and it was my bike that was different.. I told him just order the part numbers for me and leave it there. Ha. The parts diagram shows those 7mm washers as the washers for the head bolts..

[GSUwhiskers]

Uh just cut the boot off and realized I have no room to work with this thing... How exactly did you just pull it off? Just using your hands?

[Flyingw]

BIG SCREWDRIVER!!!!! Pry it back.

[GSUwhiskers]

I got it on! Took my buddy to do it though. Now I'm wrestling with getting the clamp on the backside it doesn't want to sit right.

[Flyingw]

That wasn't so bad was it? Beat having to pull the swingarm pivot out.

[Flyingw]

You know its funny, a while back I placed an order with Service Honda for a bunch of misc stuff. Little stuff like sealing washers. When the order came in, I had a bunch of silver sealing washers and I remember thinking to myself.....I don't remember those being on my list... Now thinking back, I thought I was ordering the oil tube sealing washers not really paying attention to the illustration but the parts list instead.

[GSUwhiskers]

Haha it did beat dropping the arm.. But was harder than I expected. Now before I drive it do I need to change the rear end oil? I figured all that pb spray went straight back k there...

[Flyingw]

You cannot change the diff oil too often in my book. If the water seal at the top of the diff is good and the sealing surface on the propeller shaft where it slips in to the water seal is good then any PB blaster is still sitting on top of the diff in the cavity but a little PB blaster in the diff oil is no biggie.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay I didn't realize the diff was sealed off, but I sprayed almost a whole can in there so I'll check the oil soon to make sure. So you don't have to drain that pb?

[Flyingw]

NAW!!! That isn't going to hurt anything. Some guys have reported that they bought an SX and found the entire propeller shaft cavity packed with grease. Some have even reported the diff was packed with grease. DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!

[GSUwhiskers]

Haha no I don't think I'll do that... It makes me feel much better to have a new boot on there. Now the chain and all those goodies inside! The whole reason I wanted to change it was because when I changed the diff oil it looked like coffee which made me think water was getting in through the boot. So maybe my seals aren't good.. We will know when I check it.

[Flyingw]

Water intrusion in to the diff usually makes the oil have a milky appearance. The dark oil is just dirt. If you ever want the diff rebuilt, I am tooled up for that.98% of the diffs out there have never been rebuilt and as with everything else, the seals and bearings do have a shelf life. Rebuilding the diff requires special tools so average Joe trike owner can't do it successfully. The main point of failure in the diff is the pinion shaft needle bearing. Once it fails, the pinion and ring gears start grinding on themselves and in short order destroy each other. I charge 200.00 to rebuild the diff but rebuilding it should make it good for another 25 years.

[GSUwhiskers]

It looked like creamy coffee which fits your description of water intrusion. One day I'll send it to you, but I don't have the funds to do it right now. How do you ship something like that? I definitely would not attempt a job that big by myself. As you see I'm learning about engines little by little and that is all just to change the timing chain haha.

Did you see my question about changing the shock boots?

[Flyingw]

Ya I wasn't saying now but keep that In mind. You would need to separate the diff from the swingarm and send just the diff but no pressure. Just know there is someone out there who can do that work to keep your trike going.

[GSUwhiskers]

I will of course keep your name at the front of the list. I was freaking out earlier today about getting the swingarm off and then back on ha, I was wishing I could just call you haha. We probably did it the most dangerous way, but I used a pry bar to get it off, then reloaded the spring with the pry bar while having a screwdriver under the arm to give it more room, and on top of that my buddy took another screwdrive and hammer and tapped it down until it fit on the spline... The Honda techs had never heard of this way of doing it haha.

[Flyingw]

Well that's basically how I do it although I'm usually alone when I do it but hey, you got it done and that's all that matters. By the book you are supposed to take the swinger loose and that's usually how the Honda techs approach tasks like that but they have all the Honda tools to do it per the book so screw em!!!!

[GSUwhiskers]

Haha either way I'm so glad you let me in on that little secret. I went to my buddy's house earlier and got the first hand tutorial on adjusting the valves. You've been am invaluable help and I'm sure this thread will serve many more newbs like myself in the future. Don't leave yet though I'm sure to have more questions haha.

[GSUwhiskers]

Flyingw is it alright to use pb blaster inside the crankcase? Or is that a no-no? Have you ever broken off bolts on the rocker or crankcase v
Cover?

[Flyingw]

Ya a little PB blaster won't hurt anything and yes, I have broken off bolts on the cover....... Tell me you didn't?

[GSUwhiskers]

Haha I haven't because I haven't started. I start not this Friday but next Friday. I was just wondering how common it was. The closer I get to doing it the more nervous I get haha. I know the steps and all but since I've only got a small window to work on it ifanything messes up on it I have to wait weeks before I can finish it.

[Flyingw]

You had me scared for a minute. When you go to break the bolts loose, put some pressure in the tightening direction first then break them loose. Not allot of pressure but just tighten ever so slightly then loosen them.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay I will do that. That's probably my worst fear other than getting in there and realizing my guides are torn up.

[Flyingw]

Remember, these 6mm bolts (THE SHANK) has a torque value of 7-9lbs of pressure but after sitting in a motor for that long, the pressure it takes to beak them loose is usually far more than 9lbs. Be gentle, don't jerk. Nice even pressure when you break them loose.

[Flyingw]

I'm not too concerned about the guides.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, this 6mm bolts are the rocker cover bolts right? Or are those the crankcase bolts? I was gonna start by removing the top end stuff and once I have the camshaft loose start tearing down the crankcase. Sound about right?

[Flyingw]

6mm on both and yes, that sounds about right.

[GSUwhiskers]

Am I suppose to put sealant on top of the end cap of the camshaft before I put the rocker cover on?

[Flyingw]

no. it has a ridge that seals.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay good to know. Man I'm so excited! I hope all goes well and this things runs like a sewing machine. The clutch is on its way. My gasket and washers are here.

[GSUwhiskers]

Flyingw, the farthest rear bolt on the right hand side of the bike (if you're sitting on it) rounded off on the valve cover... Any ideas on how to fix it? Turns out she obviously will be out of.commission for a while....

[Flyingw]

If you're using a 12pt socket or wrench, get a 6pt socket or wrench. Put a file on the bolt head and flatten out the sides as best as you can.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay here's where I stand, the bolt I was referring to was a 8mm and I haven't tried to file it down because I wanted to wait until I had a fresh mind to do so. All of the bolts are out of the side cover but I can't figure our how to get the side cover off? The gasket is holding on so well idk what to do?

[Flyingw]

Take a soft mallet and tap it right behind the dipstick hole. Be sure the dipstick is out. Once the cover breaks loose, it should come right off but be sure you are pushing on the kicker shaft as you pull the cover off. Never stick anything between the cover and engine case to pry it off as you will damage the sealing surfaces. You did drain the oil from the motor right?????

12pt sockets and wrenches are notorious for rounding bolt heads so that's why a 6pt is the better tool for the job.

[GSUwhiskers]

Yes itis drained of oil. I will try separating the case shortly. Where should I tap the valve cover to make it come off? I still haven't gotten that bolt out but I'm gonna try today

[Flyingw]

It doesn't matter where you tap the rocker cover, just use a soft mallet. Once it breaks loose, it will come right off.

[GSUwhiskers]

The case came apart pretty easily. I'm having to grind the head off that back bolt so I'll be needing to get one of those and who knows what else by the end of this project. I found out the air hose connecting my carb to the airbox is half way off idk why. How easy is it to unhook that carb and take it off? I see maybe 3 hoses that have to come off and then the cable at the top. Is that cable easy to unscrew and pull out?

[GSUwhiskers]

Alright I can't figure out how to get the manual clutch off. I don't have a clutch holder like they show in the manual. Do I absolutely have to have one? Help!

[Flyingw]

Sorry for the delay. Without the clutch holder, you can place a PENNY between the gears to stop the clutch basket from turning. I use an impact with a 27mm socket so the clutch holder isn't necessary but the PENNY works in lieu of that. Don't use anything else other than a PENNY.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay the chain is on and I'm trying to put the manual clutch back on. The problem is with the penny it stops the outside clutch from moving but the inside still moves and I wasn't sure if it would hurt the clutch to torque it like that?

[Flyingw]

No, press on

[GSUwhiskers]

Awesome! Thaf should make things go better

[GSUwhiskers]

She's almost done. Cranked it and she ran well but then still shut off eventually. Sounds so much better and stronger than before. Still ticks but I think its supposed to sound like that. I'll post a video maybe to confirm that. One issue I have run into and am going to deal with tomorrow is that the neutral and reverse switches were reversed which is of course my fault but they don't seem like they will stay on well any suggestions? Also when it started it smoked for a few minutes, is that just because its all new inside there? Thanks so much for all the help man, I really couldn't have done it without you. I will be digging into the carb tomorrow. And of course I'll be in touch about that.

[Flyingw]

Call me tomorrow about the lights. I'm a little confused.

[GSUwhiskers]

Well total buzz kill, when I went to work on it today most of the oil had drained out.. The side cover gasket didn't seat properly even though I messed with it for a while. And I know it tore in one spot around a bolt hole. So I'm done with it for the weekend because I'm pretty much out of time. My question is do I need to get another gasket? Can I use the liquid gasket maker instead of the actual gasket from Honda?

[Flyingw]

Get another gasket. That's the right way of doing it. 350X, ES, SX all use the same gasket. Getting the gasket on right can be a bit tricky. I set the gasket on the center case over the two dowels. Then I take a dab of Vaseline (grease works too) and put a dub in a few places and push the gasket in to the Vaseline to hold the gasket against the center case while I put the clutch cover back on. I then very carefully get all the bolts worked in to the cover through the gasket holes and in to the center case. Be gentle there because if you tear the gasket, its gonna leak. Once I have all the bolts in and I'm confident the gasket isn't torn then I will start snugging all the bolts. After they are all snug and everything looks good I tighten them up.

Don't be aggravated about the torn gasket, it happens. This week, get yourself a new gasket, a 6x45 bolt for the rocker cover, and if you like send me your carb. I'll get it done up and back to you PDQ.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, that will probably make it easier using the Vaseline. I think I messed it up too when I was struggling with that spring. I'll get those parts but I'm gonna hold off on the carb because I don't even have time to take it off today so I'll clean it out and try it next time. Do you think I could rebuild it? While I'm learning about the rest of it I figured I might as well try that too

[Flyingw]

Ok, no worries but yes, you can rebuild it. Is all about cleanliness on the inside. Order yourself a carb kit (17.00) and follow my tutorial. Its really not a big deal but the synchronization adjustment toward the end is an important step to do. Can of carb cleaner, rebuild kit, and a few tools will make a difference.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, sorry it took so long to reply, I've been driving all day. I think I'll try that, but if it doesn't work out for me I'll send it to you to fix it haha. I'm gonna order 2 gaskets in case I mess up the next one too! One of the biggest problems I had with the side cover as you know was the spring, which in turn made it hard to not mess up the gasket. So that vaseline trick holds the gasket to the case pretty well? I was going to tell you, just from looking at the carb, the hose that connects the airbox to the carb is halfway off the carb? I haven't touched it so I'm not sure how that would have happened? Another thing is where can I get the C-clamps that go around the airbox hoses? Mine are pretty rough looking, and in fact one or two are missing. I bought regular C-clamps but realized afterwards that they are too wide, and I can't find a store that sells skinny ones?

[Flyingw]

just be sure to have the reverse stop and that spring installed before you place the gasket and yes, the Vaseline just hold the gasket in place while you set the clutch cover on. A blob in a few places is all that's needed.

The airbox tubes use two different size clamps. The large one that is on the airbox side of the short tube is discontinued but the small claps (each 3) are still available. I can probably come up with the large one. The problem is the short tube is made from a different material than the long one and the short one tends to shrink over the years. Not much you can do about that but try to get it to mount up the best you can.

#15 BAND (60)
95018-60250
About 5 bucks apiece.

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2461625&category=ATVs&make=Honda&year=1985&fveh=131334

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay well I haven't tried to put it back on yet so idk how well it will fit. I researched fastenal and found a 5/16" clamp. If you get a chance can you measure the width of those clamps? Also how big of a diameter are they, the big and small?
Just to clarify, you have to stick the gasket on the case with Vaseline, then start to put the cover on, push the spring into the case, then line up the gasket. Is that correct?

[Flyingw]

I'll post up the dimensions later. The reverse stop shaft with the spring get installed in to the center case before you lay a hand on the gasket. Once the reverse stop is in then you can place the gasket on the case and set the cover.

[GSUwhiskers]

Woe, mine didn't look like that. The shaft with the spring on it was attached to the side cover, not the case that's why I was having to put the cover almost completely on to push the spring up on top of the case. So you're saying it should be installed IN the CASE not the cover? That would probably make it much easier to get the spring in.

[Flyingw]

Oh crap, I didn't realize you were doing it that way. Yes, remove the bolt on the lever on the outside of the cover. Getting the lever off the shaft can be challenging. I have a small pry bar I place under the lever and pop it off. Pay attention to the angle of the lever when you take it off. Its not indexed to the shaft but basically the lever goes back on the shaft at about 7 oclock position then tighten it down.

[GSUwhiskers]

Ha hahaha that makes me a lot more hopeful haha. I can't completely visualize how you're talking about bumping the lever off the shaft but it has to be easier than what I was doing... If that was out of the way it seems like the cover wouldn't be too hard to align with the gasket.

[Flyingw]

If you note in the pics above, the end of the reverse stop shaft is tapered meaning the lever on the end of the shaft is wedged on to the shaft locking it to the shaft. The bolt is a simple retainer. This is why its difficult sometimes to get the lever off of the shaft. Place a screwdriver or small pry bar behind the lever and apply some pressure. It will pop off.

[GSUwhiskers]

Okay, and the "lever" you're referring to is the lever outside the COVER right? That's what I'm gathering from your pictures. Just want to always double check, especially since its not in front of me.

[Flyingw]

I have the clamps you need for the airbox. 3 small and 1 large if you want them plus I'll throw in that 6x45 bolt. 30.00 shipped. You'll need to blast the clamps with some paint to protect them but they are good to go.

[Flyingw]

Yes, the lever is what the reverse cable attaches to on the outside of the cover.

[Flyingw]

I also have a new carb kit I could send, Except for the gasket, one stop shopping. 47.00 for the clamps, bolt and carb kit. Oh, BTW, the clamps are 1/4" wide.

[GSUwhiskers]

How important is that gasket? Right now from eBay I have the front brake shoes from ebc, two side cover gaskets and a carb kit from RJ for $67. FFastenal has a five pack of 5/16" hose clamps for $5, but I haven't looked for the bolt yet. You've got the OEM stuff of course, but what do think I should do? I'm really wanting to keep costs low in case I end up sending you that carb because like I said this is probably the first.trike in history that is being restored on a paycheck to paycheck basis... Lol no shame here though. It's gonna be spent on something might as well be something I love.

[Flyingw]

Even though the clamps width is wider than stock, they will probably be ok. I totally understand keeping the costs down. I was offering an option but no worries. The gasket is important though. You need a nice tight seal otherwise it will leak oil. The bolt no matter what the head is will work as long as it a 6x45 with a 1.0 thread pitch. Even if you do send me the carb, I would be ok deferring the service cost until your budget allows. It doesn't make or break me so I'm good fronting the work. We have trust. Same goes for the clamps and bolt. I'll just log it in my book and you can pay me later if you want to go that route. I'm easy!!!

[GSUwhiskers]

That honestly means more than you probably know these days. Its good actually no its great to know people like you still exist that are willing to go to the lengths you have just to help a stranger. I appreciate it more than you know. I will most likely make this eBay order and I won't be able to actually work on the trike for at least two weeks, I have a fastenal local so I will talk with them tomorrow. Depending on price and quality I will either order with them or call you set up that transaction. I of course appreciate the trust, like I said its a hard thing to come by these days.

[Flyingw]

You know its a funny thing this 3wheeler network we belong to. I have had guys send me parts free of charge. I have sent parts to guys free of charge. I have fronted parts and my services to several guys. Last winter, I had a guy bring me his SX for a diff rebuild. When I got to looking at it I realized how messed up it really was. I concluded that he would have spent more time walking back to the truck than riding it so I tore it completely apart and gave it a makeover. He supplied the money for the new parts and I threw some of my spare parts at it. While this was going on, I had a guy in Virginia sending me his SX parts for power coat. I didn't make hardly anything on that but that wasn't the reason why I did it. Money doesn't drive my efforts. I don't sell parts to pay bills because if I did, it wouldn't be any fun. I have rebuilt a few carbs for young guys who had no money. I only charged them the cost of the kit and shipping. With you in college I totally get it. Money does not come easy nor does time you need to work on your trike. If you want these clamps and bolt, just say the word and they are in the mail. It all comes out in the end so don't give it a second thought. I'm here to help any way I can and that's what keeps me going.

[GSUwhiskers]

Thank you so much. I will let you know about the clamps. I was just doing a quick sanity check in my head about the neutral reverse issue I had. The bike started in reverse but the neutral light was on, and you had to shift up to go into neutral but then the reverse light was on. Was that just caused by my wires being crossed? I didn't mess up anything mechanically right?

[mrtwidster1]

Just a note here. You will not find anyone better to help you out than Jim. He has helped more than I can every repay, his tech advise is spot on and his parts are of the highest quality. Wish there were more like him. Ok, the group hug is over...
BTW Captain, the penny suggestion was WAY MONDO COOL!!! Totally Dude!!

[Flyingw]

Sanity check confirmed. That's exactly what was supposed to happen with the plug reversed.

HI TONY!!!! how the hell have you been?

[mrtwidster1]

Good here Captain. Thanks for all the help!

[GSUwhiskers]

Just a note here. You will not find anyone better to help you out than Jim. He has helped more than I can every repay, his tech advise is spot on and his parts are of the highest quality. Wish there were more like him. Ok, the group hug is over...
BTW Captain, the penny suggestion was WAY MONDO COOL!!! Totally Dude!!
I know that's right, I'd never have been able to do what I have on my trike without his help.

[GSUwhiskers]

Hey Flyingw, did I mention when I started the three wheeler after replacing the chain that it started, ran well, and actually was drivable. The only issue besides of course the fact that all the oil leaked out and the reverse switch was well... reversed haha, was the fact that it still cut off after a few minutes. Obviously I'm still going to rebuild the carb and all that good stuff, just wanted to share that and get any opinions. I'm wondering if the moisture on Friday (we had a HUGE storm the night before and it was still raining when I was trying to crank it Friday) got into the carb, and was causing issues? I originally thought it was the coil, but apparently that was not the problem since I replaced the coil.