1983 Honda ATC 110 - Need new wheels

[natenkiki2004]

Hey all. I've come across this forum quite often but never owned a 3 wheeler up until a couple weeks ago. Picked up a used 1983 Honda ATC 110. I should have looked it over better but I've never owned one and wasn't sure what to look for. It was more of an impulse buy anyway, what I thought was a good deal anyway.

One of the things wrong with it I noticed is the rear tires wobble. Not enough to feel it on gravel/hard pack but on pavement, it's there. It's obvious just from looking at the tires. Turns out, some previous owner put what I think are older ATC wheels on it, the kind meant for the 3-hole hubs (I think). Some drilling was done on the rims and the 4 bolts normally used to hold the 2 rim halves together are now used to also hold the hub on, crooked. That's what's causing the wobble. I could probably grind the hub or get the 3-hole hub and make it work but I'd rather have it fixed right. A 1-piece rim would be a nice upgrade too so I don't have to hassle with the o-ring.

So, my totally newbie questions are;
- How are these rims measured as far as the bolt pattern?
- Would rims from other 3/4 wheelers work? I see a set of rims with tires locally on Craigslist and they look to be 1 piece and have 4 holes and the price is certainly right: http://pullman.craigslist.org/snw/4532610223.html
- Would adding innertubes be a horrible thing? I have fairly new rubber but a slice appeared in the sidewall, it's not leaking air though.
- Am I going about this the wrong way?

I can get some pictures up if that would help. Thanks in advance!

[HairyJR]

First, welcome to the board. Pic's always help as we try to not guess at what type of help we're giving. I believe '83 110's came with 4 bolt hubs although 3 bolt slide right on the axle with no problem. 3 bolt pattern is 3 on 100mm bolt circle and the original stock 4 bolt pattern is 4 on 130mm bolt circle. There are other 4 bolt hubs which will fit your axle that are 4 on 110mm bolt circle.

"HJ" :beer

[natenkiki2004]

First, welcome to the board. Pic's always help as we try to not guess at what type of help we're giving.

Thanks for the welcome :) Here's some pictures of the "modifications" to the wheel:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/small_engine/Honda%20ATC110/Pictures/2014-07-23%2012.15.59.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/small_engine/Honda%20ATC110/Pictures/2014-07-23%2012.16.12.jpg

You can see that the 4 bolts to mount the hub to the rim are also used to pinch the two wheel halves together.

And the hub, it's not easy to see but it's not sitting flush in the wheel so when the whole thing is mounted on the ATC, the wheel (and tire) isn't straight:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/small_engine/Honda%20ATC110/Pictures/2014-07-23%2012.16.32.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/small_engine/Honda%20ATC110/Pictures/2014-07-23%2012.16.42.jpg


I have like-new Carlisle Stryker 22x11.00-8 tires on there now. I think a good route is new wheels to match the 4-bolt hubs and tires I have. Is that the best way to go or should I be thinking of something else? If new rims are best, is there a good supplier of quality (but not expensive racing style) rims? So far I've found this:
http://www.powersportparts.net/ITP_Steel_Wheel_8x8_5_3_5_5_Offset_4_110_130_p/4107527.htm

[natenkiki2004]

It doesn't look like my messages are going through (this is some screwy moderation & new member settings here. there's better ways to fight spam).

Thanks for the welcome HJ. I added some pictures previously but I wonder if they made my post get rejected. I'll try this and if it goes through will post pictures later. I found some wheels called " ITP Steel Wheel - 8x8.5 - 3.5+5 Offset - 4/110-130 - Silver 0825801700". Would those fit? The stock are 8x8 but these are 8x8.5. I imagine the 8.5 is just the width and should accommodate my 22x11-8 tires.

[natenkiki2004]

Of course, that went right through. Oh well, here's some pictures:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/small_engine/Honda%20ATC110/Pictures/2014-07-23%2012.15.59.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/small_engine/Honda%20ATC110/Pictures/2014-07-23%2012.16.12.jpg

You can see that the wheels are meant for for the 3-bolt hubs but someone drilled them out and used the 4-bolt hubs to hold the two wheel halves together as well. It's hard to see but the hub isn't sitting flush with the wheel and is causing a wobble. One of the bolts is shorter than the rest, showing that the hub is crooked.

[HairyJR]

Natenkiki, your pic's show you have 4/130 bolt pattern with 8mm studs. Make sure your replacement wheels holes are drilled for 8mm not 10mm or you'll also need hubs to match.

"HJ" :beer

[natenkiki2004]

Natenkiki, your pic's show you have 4/130 bolt pattern with 8mm studs. Make sure your replacement wheels holes are drilled for 8mm not 10mm or you'll also need hubs to match.

"HJ" :beer

That is exactly why I have waited on the wheels. It seemed straightforward but I wouldn't have guessed the hole size would be different. Thank you for that information. I've found some on eBay and verified that they have a 4/110 and 4/130 bolt pattern but I don't know the hole size.

Is there any concern for the offset size or will most anything clear the hub? Here's a picture of the wheels I'm looking at, it looks like the bolt holes are awfully close to the edge of the rim:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$T2eC16N,!zQE9s3srYVcBQs!M)vCzg~~60_57.JPG

[muthey]

ok let's clear some things up here the 4 bolt 130 hubs come off of a 200m or e or es not on the 110 yours were originally 3 bolt hubs, my guess was as like most honda's the hubs stripped out, and the po replaced them with what he had on hand or could get easily. also your rims are not 2 piece rims, which were stock on the 110 125 machines. I recommend buying new hubs or upgrading to the 200 es rims however they require a bigger tire and are more expensive than buying 1976- 1979 atc 90 or 110 ,125 hubs. Another option but which will require a little pounding if your axle splines are in good condition is purchasing the ytm 225 3 bolt hubs, they are a 3 by 100 pattern as well. Yamaha doesn't have the spline stripping issue near as much as honda, because they made their splines deeper. they are the same count of splines, and width of splines just deeper. good luck

[natenkiki2004]

ok let's clear some things up here the 4 bolt 130 hubs come off of a 200m or e or es not on the 110 yours were originally 3 bolt hubs, my guess was as like most honda's the hubs stripped out, and the po replaced them with what he had on hand or could get easily. also your rims are not 2 piece rims, which were stock on the 110 125 machines. I recommend buying new hubs or upgrading to the 200 es rims however they require a bigger tire and are more expensive than buying 1976- 1979 atc 90 or 110 ,125 hubs. Another option but which will require a little pounding if your axle splines are in good condition is purchasing the ytm 225 3 bolt hubs, they are a 3 by 100 pattern as well. Yamaha doesn't have the spline stripping issue near as much as honda, because they made their splines deeper. they are the same count of splines, and width of splines just deeper. good luck

Interesting information, thanks.

I can agree the hubs were changed out, there's fresh grease on the splines. It likely happened when the new tires were mounted on it. I measured the rear hubs I have and they are 130mm center to center across. The front wheel & hub are 4-bolt but the wheel doesn't have the same drop center design as the rear ones do. I think the front wheel is a 2-piece still as it has 4 bolts for the hub and another 4 holding the halves together.

I noticed that the reason why the hubs don't sit flush in the wheel is due to the wheel having a slightly rounded edge where the too-large hub sits.

Here's what concerns me about the wheels I have, they're drilled and mangled. The holes for the 3-bolt hub are ovaled out on 1 wheel. If I got the 3-bolt hubs, it would have to rely on the stud pinching the wheel rather than the stud holding the load. The holes for the 3-bolt are in a 100mm circle. I found these hubs that look pretty stout and have a circle that seems to rest inside of the wheel for additional support:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-ATC110-REAR-AXLE-WHEEL-HUBS-ATC-110-ATC90-90-BACK-WHEEL-HUB-FL250-FL-250-/321471398202?hash=item4ad930413a&vxp=mtr

I definitely don't want to have to get new tires, the ones on there have little wear and that's just not in the budget now. I like the idea of hub splines that don't strip but I hesitate when you say "require a little pounding".

So, considering this information, does the 3-bolt hub linked to above seem like the best route?



*EDIT*
Here's the worst wheel, I also wonder if the wheel is weakened significantly by the drilling so close to the 3-hole hub mount... Or am I really overthinking the amount of actual stress on these points?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/small_engine/Honda%20ATC110/Pictures/CameraZOOM-20140724190208159.jpg

[natenkiki2004]

All this time I've been waiting for a reply to a post I made (and saw on this site yesterday) just to find that today, it's gone. What the hell? Half my posts don't show up, some get deleted, others show up right away. The moderating here makes no sense and just enables a disorganized forum. It wouldn't be so irritating if what my time typing and properly articulating ideas/thoughts/concerns/questions wasn't utterly wasted.

Let's try again;

muthey, the microfiche for the 1983 ATC 110 shows both 3 and 4-bolt hubs. There's a couple tire/rim size charts that show conflicting info as well. What I do know is this, my hubs are 4/130 and had fresh grease under them. Maybe they are from another machine, I have no idea. The rims definitely aren't original, I see that now. They are 1-piece with a drop-center design where the factory ones are straight and meant to be split. I like the idea of buying 3-bolt hubs, it's cheaper than buying new rims and having the tires mounted. My concern is that the drilling and ovaling of the holes in the rims will affect centering the 3-bolt rims and also affect strength.

Take a look at this rim, it's the worst of the two:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/464376/small_engine/Honda%20ATC110/Pictures/CameraZOOM-20140724190511553.jpg

I looked on eBay and found some hubs that have a raised center that should fit in the middle hole in the wheel and help center it on the hub/axle so it doesn't bounce up and down due to the ovaled out holes and misalignment. Is it fair to say that any Honda 3-bolt hub will be splined the same and have 3/100 spacing? Here's the ones I'm looking at, they appear to be beefier than the stock ones:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-ATC110-REAR-AXLE-WHEEL-HUBS-ATC-110-ATC90-90-BACK-WHEEL-HUB-FL250-FL-250-/321471398202?hash=item4ad930413a&vxp=mtr

On a side note, the axle splines feel good. With the hub mounted there's hardly any movement. I imagine with the castellated nut on, it's tight and good to go.


Thank you both for the patience and information :)

[muthey]

I would go ahead and buy those hubs. What I meant buy a little pounding is just that they are a really tight fit. and if the axle splines are in good shape, it is a really really tight fit. if that is the worst rim for the rest of the summer they should hold up, but I would replace the rims as soon as you have the money to do so, if you are going aftermarket rims you can get them in many different sizes unlike the oem honda rims which only come in certain sizes.

[natenkiki2004]

Thanks for the reply. A bunch of my posts finally showed up and I tried to clear out the confusing ones.

The price is right on the hubs and it allows me to get going as cheaply as possible so I can focus on other things. If I should still get new rims, what would you recommend considering I'll have both 3/100 and 4/130 hubs? I would like to keep the 22x11.00-8 tires I currently have.

[86125m]

Rockymountain atv has the best price on tires and rims I would buy the itp steel rims they are like 27 dollars a piece and look veary close to the original rims.

[HairyJR]

natenkiki, those ITP steel wheels are perfect for your 4 bolt hubs, all 8 holes in the wheel look the same size and seeing as Honda didn't make 4/130 hubs with 10mm studs than all holes are 8mm. Don't know your mechanical skills or available tools if those 3 bolt cast steel hubs do center well on your wheels I'd rotate a few degrees and using the hubs as a guide drill new holes.

"HJ" :beer

[natenkiki2004]

HJ, are you sure that 4/130 didn't come with 10mm studs? I asked the eBay seller of these wheels:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271109505313?item=271109505313&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123&vxp=mtr
And he said the holes are 10mm. I checked my 4/130 hubs and they have 8mm studs.

My concern with getting the wheels is that I'll run into the same issue I have now. The studs holes aren't that far from the drop center part of the wheel and the hub may not sit flush against the flange. It'd also be 4x the cost to get new wheels and have my tires re-mounted.

I like the 3-bolt hubs since it appears that they have a raised circle in the center that looks like it should match the hole in my wheel (waiting on measurements from the seller) and that would eliminate any centering problems. I could then get some grade 8 bolts and crank them down to pinch the hub to the wheel and have a safe ride. With buying the 3-bolt hubs, I'd then have 2 different hubs and more variety to choose from as for as wheels down the road.

[Crazyktmmatt]

What part of idaho are you from?

[natenkiki2004]

What part of idaho are you from?

Northern Idaho, a bit more than an hour south of Coeur 'd Alene. Where are you about?

[Crazyktmmatt]

Coeur d' Alene basically

[HairyJR]

natenkiki, sorry my mistake, I made an assumption on 8mm holes as all looked the same. After further investigation found my FL350 Odyssey has 4/130 with 10mm studs. I'm going to attach a picture of common Honda hubs, 3 bolt pressed steel, 3 bolt cast steel and 4 bolt 4/110 200x hubs with 10mm studs. I measured the cast hub raised hub at 75.5mm ( 2.972" ) and several 3 bolt and aftermarket aluminum wheel centers at 76mm or larger. This means the hubs will be a little loose inside the wheels, but not bad.

197690197691197692

"HJ" :beer

[natenkiki2004]

HJ, not a problem man :) You have a nice assortment of hubs there. Would it be fair to say that the 3-bolt cast hub is stronger than the 4-bolt stamped steel hub? On your 3-bolt hubs, are the studs 10mm?

I have yet to measure the inside wheel center hole of my wheels but it's ok if the hub is a little sloppy in there. A few mm up and down movement is a lot better than the wobble I have now that seems to be about an inch total.

[jimanold22]

I just broke down 6 3 bolt rims today. only need 3 for my resto.You can have the others for shipping costs

[natenkiki2004]

I just broke down 6 3 bolt rims today. only need 3 for my resto.You can have the others for shipping costs

Ohhh another option :)

Are they 8 inch wheels? The way you worded it, they sound like split rims, is that right?

[HairyJR]

natenkiki, my idea of showing you the different hubs was to see top and bottom of each style. The 3 bolt hubs are 8mm except the rusty cast hub, it had been drilled to use 3/8" long bolts for 3" spacers. The 200x hubs on the far right come standard with 10mm studs. If you do get 2 piece 3 bolt wheels and also plan to use the cast steel hubs you may need to grind the very outside tips of the 3 bolt hubs as they may hit the raised O-ring area hump.

"HJ"

[natenkiki2004]

The more I learn from you guys, the more I research and the more I think that there isn't a perfect solution here, at least for my budgetary needs.

I know the holes for the 3-hole hub studs are larger than 8mm on my wheels, possibly larger than 10mm. I'd have to drill out the 3-bolt hubs to help them center on my wheels easier.

It's difficult to figure out what to do since this is all new to me and I don't have various combinations to try out in-person.


What I know for sure is that I want to keep my 8" tires and I don't want split rims. Beyond that, I'm lost.


*EDIT*
Ok, measuring some more, there's no way I could comfortably use the 4/130 hubs with the rims I have. They're obviously from a bigger 3 wheeler and wouldn't sit flush against the wheel flange even if I ground down the outside edges to make them fit inside the wheel better. There's raised portions that are larger in diameter than the hole in the wheel. I'd end up bending the hubs if I did grind them down.

The wheels I have, have a center hole about 3 inches wide which is just about 76mm like you said HJ.

It looks like the best way for me to go now (still) is the 3-bolt cast hubs and drill out the holes for 10mm bolts and stock up on some grade 8 hardware to make it all secure. Even though the holes on 1 wheel are ovaled out, a 3/8 bolt wasn't overly loose inside and 10mm is slightly larger. All things considered, I should be able to get them pretty dang close to center.

The next thing after that would be to get new hubs & wheels that match my 8" tires or wait long enough to wear these tires down and consider upgrading a size if possible.


Thank you to all who replied to my disorganized, wishy-washy, confused-noob thread. You all have more patience than I do :)