Dang, I was right again! Honda ES is just what I thought it would be.

[Frankencelery]

We just got back from our MN trip last week, and had lots of awesome riding in the woods. Every year this comes up...my wife would really prefer the stability of a quad. So this year, we decided to get one. Yesterday we went shopping and we ended up with a 2008 Honda Rancer 420 ES. I've been a curmudgeon about Electric Shift since I heard of it. "What the hell's wrong with an old-fashioned foot shifter?", I would growl. But this one had it, and there weren't any without that feature, unless I wanted to get her a Recon (and yes I was very tempted, since it felt like my 250SX), so I decided to embrace the modern technology.

You know where this is going, right? On our first ride out last night the electric shifter got stuck in 1st and wouldn't change. We discovered that shutting off the ignition and turning back on fixes the problem. I read on the forum that it resets the computer. Computer? What? It did it 2 more times after that last night, and I went to bed in disgust. Not sure if I'm going to take time off work to drag it back to the dealer an hour and a half away, or try to fix it myself. Typically, used ATVs don't come with any warranty anyway.

Disappointed!

[shortline10]

I have seen this a few times and the fix was a new shift control module .



We just got back from our MN trip last week, and had lots of awesome riding in the woods. Every year this comes up...my wife would really prefer the stability of a quad. So this year, we decided to get one. Yesterday we went shopping and we ended up with a 2008 Honda Rancer 420 ES. I've been a curmudgeon about Electric Shift since I heard of it. "What the hell's wrong with an old-fashioned foot shifter?", I would growl. But this one had it, and there weren't any without that feature, unless I wanted to get her a Recon (and yes I was very tempted, since it felt like my 250SX), so I decided to embrace the modern technology.

You know where this is going, right? On our first ride out last night the electric shifter got stuck in 1st and wouldn't change. We discovered that shutting off the ignition and turning back on fixes the problem. I read on the forum that it resets the computer. Computer? What? It did it 2 more times after that last night, and I went to bed in disgust. Not sure if I'm going to take time off work to drag it back to the dealer an hour and a half away, or try to fix it myself. Typically, used ATVs don't come with any warranty anyway.

Disappointed!

[DohcBikes]

^^^what he said. I will not own electric shift bikes. I will not embrace the idea of making a heavy quad SEEM even easier to drive. The more redundancy atv's are built with, the more they become just like the new cars. If we keep accepting these gizmos and creature comforts, they'll keep adding them on. Sorry, but I like to be the one driving the machine, not the other way around.

Next to come, voice activated GPS guided servo powered quads that you can take a nap on while you're supposed to be driving.

[Frankencelery]

I totally agree. I like to ride my ATV, not DRIVE it. Having said that, I did ride it, and it was a nice ride. The most frustrating part is that I just KNEW this ES system was going to be trouble, but I didn't listen to myself. The alternative machine was Polaris, which has a belt drive, and not to offend the Polaris fans, I've read far too many reports of reliability problems with those. So I went Honda, thinking it would be....well, typical, reliable Honda.

From my reading about these problems on the web, there's differing opinions of what causes these failures. The most common one I've read about is a bad Angle Sensor. Next in line is a failing shift motor, followed by the "Computer" or ECM. I have to assume that's what you mean by the Shift Control Module, Shortline?

I'm trying to decide whether it's worth taking it back to the dealer, an hour away from home, and having to take time off work to do it. Iowa consumer rights are pretty strong, and you CAN return something within 3 days, I don't know if they'll actually fix it. To make matters worse, it's intermittent, and doesn't do it every time.

[shortline10]

Yes the ECM .
I have a few hundred hours dealing with Honda ES issues and it can get very intense at times :lol:
But their hasn't been one I gave up on yet !


Next in line is a failing shift motor, followed by the "Computer" or ECM. I have to assume that's what you mean by the Shift Control Module, Shortline?

[Frankencelery]

Yes the ECM .
I have a few hundred hours dealing with Honda ES issues and it can get very intense at times :lol:
But their hasn't been one I gave up on yet !

Well, does my order of things to try sound right from your experience? Also, I read that the display flashes a code when it won't shift, but it hasn't done it since I learned that, so I haven't been able to record what it is.

[shortline10]

I don't believe it's the angle sensor or shift motor from your description .
Try and get it to flash the code again .

[just ben]

bet your ass I would take it back.

[Frankencelery]

Ok, got flash codes....it wouldn't shift out of neutral when I first started it just now, and the Neutral "N" on the display flashes 2 fast, 4 slow. Oh, and when it fails, no sound comes from the shift motor at all. Shut the key off, turn back on, and it shifts fine.

Any ideas?

[Frankencelery]

bet your ass I would take it back.

I hadn't seen your response last night, Ben, but I am going to call them this morning, and see what they say. In the meantime, since Shortline sounded like he knew something about this issue, I thought it couldn't hurt to do some research.

[coolpool]

Sorry for your headaches. I have to agree that I'm a foot shifter guy all the way. What guys have found up here is if the battery gets run down winching a lot it won't shift either. Just a heads up. Hope it all works out for you.

[DohcBikes]

Just Ben said what I felt like saying. They likely know it wasn't working right, and they sold it anyway. I'd take it back.

[Frankencelery]

Just Ben said what I felt like saying. They likely know it wasn't working right, and they sold it anyway. I'd take it back.

I know what you mean. I actually shunned two of the dealerships in town because they've always felt sleazy to me, and went to this place an hour and a half away. They seem to be straight shooters, and I'm doubtful that they deliberately sold me something they know had problems. Anyway, I called them, and the guy said right away that he would fix it for me, since I just bought it and called him about the problem immediately. He suggested that it might be a bad connection, so I volunteered to pull the plugs on both the shift motor and angle sensor and make sure that there was no corrosion, and if that didn't do it, I would bring it in tomorrow, and he agreed.

[86T3]

Dont be too down on the electric shift, all my neighbors have hondas with it and none (4 machines) have had any problems in 4 years that ive been here. Hope they take care of you

[Frankencelery]

So, got it back the other day, and it's good as new! I forgot to come back and mention that I was reading the code backwards. I had apparently missed the first flash of 4, so it was actually 42, which indicates a shorted shift switch assembly. I sent it back to the dealer and they installed a new switch assembly and that fixed it!

So if you're ever in Iowa and are in the mood to buy an ATV or motorcycle, I can wholeheartedly recommend Nishna Valley Cycle, since they took good care of us!

199414

[jakep53]

Glad you got it fixed!! I must say im not a fan of hondas es

[shortline10]

Awesome you got it fixed , that switch is inside the rear cover and to get to that the motor is removed lol not an inexpensive fix and glad it was on the dealers end .



So, got it back the other day, and it's good as new! I forgot to come back and mention that I was reading the code backwards. I had apparently missed the first flash of 4, so it was actually 42, which indicates a shorted shift switch assembly. I sent it back to the dealer and they installed a new switch assembly and that fixed it!

So if you're ever in Iowa and are in the mood to buy an ATV or motorcycle, I can wholeheartedly recommend Nishna Valley Cycle, since they took good care of us!

199414

[atc007]

Awesome you got it fixed , that switch is inside the rear cover and to get to that the motor is removed lol not an inexpensive fix and glad it was on the dealers end .
Unless you're me. I hang the quad from the bucket tractor,pull the swingarm, in and out in an hour :),But yes, Honda protocol is pulling the engine. Edit, that's how I've done the 350 ranchers. Haven't seen a broken 420 yet. Frankencelery, you will absolutely LOVE this bike for decades to come. Wait and see. I have bought/sold/traded probably over 100 ES's,Rincons,and Rubicons in the last 18 years. I have worked on 4,3 Ranchers, one 450ES. It really is simple. Run pure synthetic oil!! Forget what anyone and everyone else says. Full syn lets these suckers shift like butter. You will never in a million years slip the clutch or even wear them prematurely with the slight power output they have. Please run full syn,and life will be good :)

[Frankencelery]

Please run full syn,and life will be good :)

Full Synthetic, eh? There's a lot of debate about that, but I certainly agree that it gives better engine life on cars. My Civic is at 294K and still going!

Shortline, I may have mis-stated the name of the part that they replaced. I meant the handlebar switch. That's what they replaced. Either way, it seems to be working. We've only ridden it twice since it came back, but it's working fine so far!

[shortline10]

Tooo funny :lol: and Bill is talking about motorcycle wet clutch full synthetic oil I believe not car oil and I agree it helps a lot .






Shortline, I may have mis-stated the name of the part that they replaced. I meant the handlebar switch. That's what they replaced. Either way, it seems to be working. We've only ridden it twice since it came back, but it's working fine so far!

[atc007]

Yes,,ugghhh,,yes,,clears throat... Here we go again. lol. What I have found best for the past decade in the 450ES in particular is Pennzoil,car,full syn. Yellow bottle,don't know if it's a specific flavor. It is not in a atv or wet clutch bottle. Guys,, what I'm typing is real world ,decades of experience. It is not my opinion. Yes,,a Banshee on nitrous without a properly tuned clutch could and would probably blow a set of fibers into slipping with car oil. A Honda utility quad?? Good luck :) One of my customers pulls a manure spreader for his wood cart. For those not familiar,his wood cart empty is easily 900 pounds.. Add a spare saw,axes,and all the logging equipment you can possibly imagine. And he returns with a stacked,heaped load :) Bike sits with around 6000 miles tonight. I sold him a 500ES to "relieve it" last year. Up and down hills. All week,all year. Cuts for fun for the neighborhood. After Honda could not make his machine shift.And it left him in the woods holding the "tool kit shifter" many times. I said,what have we too lose? Within 15 miles, It was a buttery smooth machine. We have used nothing but since. Take it for what it's worth. I know :)

[ps2fixer]

I'm not sure about the most recent model, but when Honda first started the ES option, wasn't there the shift shaft sticking out of the engine still? Seems like buying a manual lever would be a nice backup option.

My dad has a 680 Rincon, 100% no shifting problems. His brother has a 650, and he has to leave it warm up for quite a while before it will move, I'd guess he has the wrong oil in it, but he won't take correction at all. Both are fully automatic, with the ES override buttons.